macskull

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Let me be the first to request a Mac client from our new planner overlord.

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Second. All in favor? Say "aye".

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I'd love a Mac version. Unfortunately Mids never had access to a Mac to do code work on so that shot that in the foot (unless the entire codebase was ported to Java or Silverlight or some other cross-platform language). I have tried running Mids under OS X via several emulators or compatibility layers (Cider, the program CoH uses, was one, but no dice there). My best workaround is having a small Windows XP virtual machine on my computer.

No. But for lulz you can stick the Devastation hold proc in there as well - it's an 8-second hold so it does a great job of [censored] up people long enough for you to kill them.

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Quit what?

Dude i'm not talking cause i'm an idiot and i like talk about things i son't understand..

I have an elec/wp stalker, an em/ninj one and an spines/regen one. (and i can show u all if u don't belive me).

Well, em/ninj was my first char.. maden 2 years ago and well.. right now it is not how it was but it is still great.

Spines / regen is fucxxxg funny and dynamic.

Elec WP is simply boring,unusefull and damned easy.

So have i to say "ya elec / wp is the best" cause a lot of ppl say this? Or i'm a troll?

Well, i ll never do this. Elec/WP is astupid spec in my opinion.

WP is for arena... and elec suks. Can i have my opinion or is this a comunist forum? Where u can't think different ?

have fun.

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The reason everyone says Elec/WP is probably the best PvP Stalker at the moment is simple - it is. If you want to play something else, more power to you, but know that you're not going to be doing as well as you can be. Your first mistake is the assumption that you are going to be playing your Stalker like a Scrapper in PvP. Against competent players that's a good way to ensure you get very few kills and many, many deaths. Build Up/AS/Placate/follow-up attack is the best way to get a kill in on a lower-HP squishy, at which point you need to Phase or Hibernate if his teammates are around, or you will die.

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5 Fire/SS Tanks. Or 5 Spines/Regen Scrappers. Or 5 Sonic/EM (or Psi/EM, or Arch/EM) Blasters. Don't waste time trying to bring along buffers or debuffers because they'll just get farmed with the travel suppression rules. Everyone takes Phase.

The end.

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And the 'hardcore' pvpers may be surprised to hear that this is probably the majorty's concensus, and thus, who the devs are listening to.

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This statement, combined with the utter lack of attention the devs paid to the people who bothered to work with the system and make it work for them, speak volumes to why we have the giant steaming pile of [censored] we have today.

Yes, let's listen to the lowest common denominator. Screw trying to keep up with Joneses, let's just drag them down to our level!

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It's called the 80% rule of business. You cannot appeal to 100% of your customers, so you aim for 80%. If you're not in that 80%, you're a niche market and odds are a product designed for mass appeal is simply not taking you into account. Sorry if that upsets you, or if you feel slighted, but businesses exist to make money and a game like this has to use the 80% rule if they want to stay afloat, even if a small portion of that other 20% leave in a huff.

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No sane business manager is going to implement a strategy that:

1. Has no guarantee of enticing that 80% in, and
2. Will likely drive away that remaining 20%.

Yet that's exactly what happened. Where's the 80% this change was designed for? I sure don't see 'em in the zones or arena. Seems like a failure to me.

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The reduction of damage change to the Targeted AoE's and the PBAoE's was one of the best changes to PvP. Why should one AT do so much damage to a whole entire team.

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Umm... I'm gonna say this, and the truth hurts, but I'm sorry - if you caught more than one or maybe two people with an AoE you were probably fighting retards. This isn't PvE, other players don't herd themselves into nice clumps to get AoE'd to death. Only place AoEs truly mattered was against Masterminds in bodyguard mode, and pets still take PvE damage from attacks so nothing has really changed.

Pets aren't affected by DR (or heal decay)

What time are those matches at?

If I haven't managed to get my main account banned by then I might show up.

Staying alive in PvP is an exploit - I heard if you get too many kills without dying, they delete that toon and temp ban your account.

It's just you. Against properly-equipped players it's still "lolfly."

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...Wow! Just... wow! Good tip! I suppose its meant to be a boon to people who've chosen sub-optimal sets that dont HAVE big damage attacks in them.

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Y'know, that may be the first logical reason I've heard as to why pool attacks do more damage than some in-set attacks. It's still a stupid reason, but at least I can see the logic behind it. I think it's an excuse to say "Yeah, your powerset is pretty terrible in PvP, just take Flurry and you'll be fine."

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Am I the only one who thinks that the Devs see the game on a level we players don't

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You're sure as hell not the only one. Look at the fiasco surrounding Mission Architect and you'll see exactly the level at which the devs see the game - in that case, we are told "we expected something to happen, but nothing like this." Or, despite numerous ticket drop rates and item cost changes in closed beta, they slap a cap on the ticket gain per mission, claiming it's too high.

The devs have datamines and numbers. We have countless hours of real, in-game experience. You can have all the data in the world, but it's useless if you interpret it wrong. And I've noticed a massive disconnect between the devs' thought process and that of the players since around the time I13 launched.

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Here is the issue @ hand. So you wanted extra arena options and rewards, but PvP mechanics left untouched? My point is made. I mean really, why even bother to reply?

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Is there something inherently wrong with wanting incentives or tweaks added without a wholesale change to the system? You seem to think so.

PvP rewards/new arena options and a complete overhaul of the PvP system did not need to happen at the same time, but the latter somewhat necessitated the former.

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So you admit that PvP is more broken now than it was before and the majority of people don't like the changes. Good to see we're finally on the same page.

[/ QUOTE ]Lets put it this way: The car still wont start but there have been some repairs made.

And if by majority you mean majority of those that liked PvP the way it was, then the answer is certainly yes.

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I don't pay mechanics to put parts in my car willy-nilly and still not have it work. They took out my entire engine block because the spark plugs were dying, replaced it with a smaller engine designed for a different model car, tried to put the old spark plugs back on the new engine, and now wonder why the car won't start.

Where are all the people that say they like the new PvP? I've seen very, very few of them on the forums and almost as few in-game (for a rough idea, go check out the initial I13 threads in which positive and negative feedback was collected - the negative thread is significantly larger than any positive thread I've seen since). Surely if there were as many of them as you claim, they'd be speaking up. Problem with the PvP changes was that they were not geared around people that used the system on a day-to-day basis, but rather that they were geared toward people who didn't PvP in the first place, none of whom were even guaranteed to set foot into a zone even after the rules were changed. Alienating a large portion of your existing customer base in the non-guaranteed hope that you'll draw in other customers from other areas is not generally a good business strategy.

I really believe that when the developers were formulating these changes, they told themselves, "These changes probably won't end up bringing in more people, so we will need to create incentives to PvP." That's where inf/prestige/inspiration/salvage rewards (in I13) and recipes (in I14) come into play. The I13 rewards are essentially small change in the grand scheme of things and likely didn't draw in many players on their own. The PvP IOs likely drew in more people, but from what I saw those people came into zones for a week or two after I14 launch, maybe got a drop, and maybe died a lot, and then went back to PvE.

Really, I'm curious what might have happened to PvP if the "What changes do we need?" wishlist was at least partially implemented in the ways outlined in that list, Taunt was given -range, rewards were added, and the rest of the system stayed more or less the same.

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Wowie! So sorry to hear this but so grateful the torch is being passed! Best of luck to the both of you!

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This.

Also, what will this setback do for development of an I14 update?

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DR on Sucks. We did a prac with easy breezy and used 5 blasters mostly soloing the whole match vs their 3 blasters 2 emps. We beat them. That should never happen. I will not play with a system where support is laughable and fight club teams win.

So you guys would rather not ban an unbroken power, but play with a broken system? eg. cap res on squishies.(I'm just playing the devils advocate here btw.) I'm happy either way.

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So it doesn't work cause u tried against 1 other team? It sux cause u can't use emps? Emps with base res is one of the main reasons this is a problem. I think this woulda turned different if u had at least 2 tanks on the team. Dr on would make other at's and combos viable. Corruptors would be useable a lot, so would tanks and brutes. Hell do 5 blasters vs 5 mm's.

Just like you, im playing devils advocate.

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No, it sucks because an uncoordinated team of randomly thrown together Blasters can beat a team of coordinated spiking Blasters and two Emps backing them up. Adding Tankers might've made the kill count for the Blaster team lower, but it wouldn't have changed anything, because it would only mean the Emps would have more time to react before their heals started to become worthless.

Emps + base resists aren't the problem. It's the base resists that are. Previously you'd bring along a few Therms and a Sonic and mostly the entire team would have capped resists, but now the some of the role of those buffers is negated because everyone has capped resists anyways.

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If I'm crying at all, it's because they attempted to fix it - note I didn't say actually fix it. Quite the opposite.

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Isnt that what I said?

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So you admit that PvP is more broken now than it was before and the majority of people don't like the changes. Good to see we're finally on the same page.

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Mac:
The irony of your post is - you have answered the question your expecting me to answer. Why would I need to when you unknowingly already have? Hehehe..

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I guess so... basically what you're saying here is, "I have no idea what I'm talking about, but because I say it's better without any evidence to back up my claims - just trust me guys, it's better, ok?" Most of my posts in response to you in this thread, and others, have shown time and time again that you are logically and factually wrong on several subjects. But, I forgot - it seems that, as of late, in this game logic and facts aren't what dictate change. Knowingly lying to try and prove your point and getting called out on it didn't help your credibility one bit.

Ignorance really is bliss, huh?

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Just play with DR.

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Problem with DR is heal decay. What's gonna beat a team of 5 Blasters?

If I could revert one thing from I13 it'd be travel suppression (or at least just add in suppression from melee attacks). If I could revert two things, it'd be travel suppression and heal decay. Three things? Getting optimistic here, but TS, heal decay, and base resists would go.

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get wrecked

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Heh... lol @ thinking everyone is wrong even though they can come up with legitimate reasons why things are worse now, when the best you can do is lie (to people who knew the truth already) back at them.

Get wrecked, indeed.

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Yes, we get it, you want people to stand and FITE LIEK A TRU WARRIER, you're one of the people PvP was changed for, gg.

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As we get you - youre one of the people that liked the turd they called PvP and cry when they finally attempt to fix it.

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If I'm crying at all, it's because they attempted to fix it - note I didn't say actually fix it. Quite the opposite.

Look through my post history around here. I've actually outlined exactly why I think some of the changes fail, where some of them have succeeded, and further changes I'd make. I don't whine - I call things how they are.

Yes, we get it, you want people to stand and FITE LIEK A TRU WARRIER, you're one of the people PvP was changed for, gg.

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Staying alive is silly, isn't it?

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Trying so hard to stay alive that you would use a power that takes you out of a fight (essentially running away) that has no real negative reprocussions other than maybe pride (self esteem) SUUUUUUUUUUUUURE is.

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Right. During the time I've wasted going to the hospital, healing up, and traveling back across the zone, rather than hitting Hibernate and then jumping right back in, I could have...

* Kept my teammates alive through my buffs or heals
* Got another few kills in
* Upped my rep
* Got a PvP recipe or rare salvage

I don't play to lose - I take both powers that keep me or my allies alive, or defeat my enemies. PvP is min/max and if you're not min/maxing you might as well leave the zone.

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If it were considered more fun now (in general) than before, why such a drop in population?

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Because those that liked crap dont like things that arent crap?

And whether you choose to believe it or not, the damage has been done. But of course you wouldnt because you say you liked it before. Though if you can for a min assume that it was bad, then you might understand how it pushed people away (with the issues Mac has said) and how hard it would be to get them to give PvP another chance.

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Pot, meet kettle.

Fact is, people that don't want to PvP... aren't going to PvP. No amount of incentives or tweaking will change that. You can try and add lots and lots of rewards, at which point people will feel pressured to PvP just to keep up - but that's not a good business model by any stretch of the imagination. Fact is, both on the boards and in the game, I've seen far less people with positive things to say about the changes than I've seen negative. Does that mean all the people who don't like it are wrong? I really doubt that.