lionheart_fr

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We have been having a great time, both playing other peoples' story arcs and making our own. Since we weren't using the MA for farming, our experience hasn't been altered.

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This. I've not experienced any changes to my ability to play MArcs.

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Ditto. My family is loving it. In fact -- even with all the forum drama -- we decided to get my daughter her own account so the three of us can play and create together.

The MA was and still is the clincher. We're having a blast.

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Good point, Geek_Boy. Not only that, but the MA buildings in some zones are really hopping; hardly brought down.

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Correction: the MA buildings in Freedom's Atlas 1 and Atlas 2 are "really hopping." Elsewhere they are ghost-towns. Both in Freedom's other zones [with the possible occasional exception of the Talos MA.. that has a few people in there at peak times] and on other servers that I have visited.

Especially redside. Complete and total ghost-towns.

Sounds like a "success" to me.... success at running everyone off, that is. I wouldn't call scaring everyone out of using The New Shiny all that much of a success for the game, but obviously I know nothing.

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Hmm, I don't play on Freedom much. In Atlas primarily on just about every server I see many people playing.

Considering the thousands of arcs, many of which have hundreds of ratings, etc., the rumors of the MA's demise are greatly exaggerated.

There is no crisis, except to the relative handful of forum dwellers who like to propagate FUD. Most of the people upset with the "situation" are not upset with what Positron actually said, but by the FUD spread by others claiming he said/did even more.

Forums are very entertaining.

Good point, Geek_Boy. Not only that, but the MA buildings in some zones are really hopping; hardly brought down.

For some time, my arc sat at 13 plays; over the last two days, I got 23 more plays, pretty rapid fire. And I've played a lot of good arcs. It's great fun.

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Programs can see that someone didnt even step foot inside your arc. People can rate your story just bt accepting it. They don't have to even go inside.

People can accept your mission go inside the first mission and rate it, without even killing a foe.

I am sure int his day and age our computers can figure out that accepting an arc and doing either of those things and rating it 0 stars... is griefing.

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And that's about the extent of what they could do.

However, it is entirely possible to identify really poorly done arcs or farm arcs very quickly; one needn't go completely through the mission in every case to know when they've hit something that is just bad.

For myself, normally I just quit such missions without rating, though there have been two or three that I one-starred for inappropriate content issues. Again, those were easily identified very early.

I do sympathize with ratings griefing (I've gotten one or two myself), it just seems that there's not much that can be done in many cases. It's not so much a technology issue, it's a people issue. There's no way a program can gage the intent of the rater.

As far as I can see, the only real mistake the devs made with their response to the exploiters was to hit people in leveling pacts.

However, leveling pacts themselves are ready-made powerleveling services; how are they supposed to know which ones were done purposefully and which ones were strictly happenstance?

I always wondered about the feasibility of leveling pacts myself. Now we've seen one of the bugs in it.

If there is a rating system -- any player rating system -- in place, there will be high raters and low raters. Nothing one can do about that. What do you propose they do to change it?

Not everybody who gives us low ratings is griefing. They may pretty well hate our arcs, while others may love them.

However, if you get comments saying that they low-starred you because they don't like you on the forums, report them. That is harassment as well as griefing. It's not allowed by the rules.

But there is nothing programmatically that can be done about this. Programs can't gage the intent behind the button-pushing, they can only recognize what buttons are pushed and record it accordingly.

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After that MA debacle, its not like a bug on test for a few days matters, to be honest.

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What debacle? Many of us are enjoying the MA immensly. No issues there. MA is tremendous fun.

I'd like a look at the 20 new faces as well.

This will be one of the things to watch for after i15 comes out. They're adding 20 new faces. Hopefully, they'll just tack them on to the end instead of reordering them, but past experience says this may not be so.

There is no limit to the available good names out there (my nine year old is even able to snag good ones).

However, I am working on a rather large list of synonyms, etc. broken down by power-type or personality-type to aid in future character naming (you'd be amazed at the number of terms that would work very well as part of a fire-based character's name).

When finished, would it be worthwhile to post it someplace public for others to reference?

Or to take it a step further: I have a Mastermind (soldier) concept that I planned on running through Heroic missions only; he was a hero, but I can't play that AT on the hero side.

In other words, going rogue before Going Rogue.

Time is often a factor. I like medium/long arcs myself, but sometimes I'm limited in the amount of time I have on a given night and will look up short arcs just to get a couple in before bedtime.

As to whether single mission arcs are good or not, it varies. I've played some single missions that are more enjoyable than some of the longer ones with regard to story and fun value. I've played some that are not deep, but are definitely clever. I've played some that I'm not sure why they were made to begin with. But that's true of longer arcs as well.

If I enjoy the arc, it doesn't matter what length it is, I will star it accordingly.

Funny, I'm still playing it the same way I was before. No change at all that I can see, except for the rare occasion when I run across on that has been invalidated.

It depends on what zone I'm in as to whether the AE building is crowded or not. A lot of AE players flock to the lower level zones, leaving the AE buildings mid-level zones emptier. But then, this has been true from the start; nothing has changed there either, from what I've seen. Experience may vary.

Don't know. I haven't noticed any such changes. I still play the AE missions as well. It's true in AE that basically I'll play when the critters are set to standard, instead of hard or extreme, but otherwise I can't see any changes.

I play on heroic as well.

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I know that. My point is that you do so much as even something vaguely related to farming and some of the forumites act like you just [censored] their children at gunpoint.

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Understood and agreed. While I generally don't "farm" myself, I have done it in a minor way when nearing a level, just to finish the level off. I don't really consider that farming, but some will.

Some would accuse my youngster of that, because sometimes she just like to explore and streetsweep along the way. I don't consider that farming either; she's not doing it for XP or gear, just for fun.

Ignore the overzealous forumites -- on both sides.

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Farming is farming, whether you are doing it for XP, gear or "fun". Besides getting XP and gear is fun!

Both you and your kid are farmers. Welcome to the club!

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Depends on one's definition or point-of-view -- which of course is why we have all these angsty threads going on.

I don't consider grinding a few mobs at the end of a level to be real farming. Certainly fighting mobs while exploring to enjoy the combat itself is not something I would consider farming -- by my definition.

Flat out farming to me is doing the same thing over and over again for no other purpose that to garner nebulous rewards; the content and/or story is not important, nor is challenge, just the ability to gain XP/gear faster. The most "loot" for the least effort.

That's the type of farming that to me is excruciatingly boring. If that's all the game had to offer, there'd be nothing to keep me here.

Luckily that's not the case.

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I know that. My point is that you do so much as even something vaguely related to farming and some of the forumites act like you just [censored] their children at gunpoint.

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Understood and agreed. While I generally don't "farm" myself, I have done it in a minor way when nearing a level, just to finish the level off. I don't really consider that farming, but some will.

Some would accuse my youngster of that, because sometimes she just like to explore and streetsweep along the way. I don't consider that farming either; she's not doing it for XP or gear, just for fun.

Ignore the overzealous forumites -- on both sides.

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Most farmers arent asking to abuse the content, only a very small fraction, who the rest don't like anyhow. Theyre asking very reasonably for their playstyle, which tends to favor repeatable missions filled with monsters, to not be treated like its ruining the game. Most farmers agreed that comm officers needed to die a horrible death. Most farmers don't want to burn this game into the ground, but they don't want to play your "masterpieces of arc-ish literature" either.

But if you asked the forum's opinion the very second you so much as run a Katie Hannon/ITF/Whathaveyou for a quick level up or two, your playstyle is wrong, evil, and needs to die in the fiery pits of hell because you don't play like them.

I ran all the Croatoa arcs just to unlock katie. Did I enjoy the arcs? Yes. Do i deserve to be villainized, have my characters deleted and be forcibly ejected from the game forever because between bouts of roleplaying and soloing AE arcs I enjoy a speedran Katie or ITF or even an AE farm for quick exp and/or loot? Apparently so if you ask most of the most vocal on the forum.

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Forumites are going to have varying opinions on what constitutes farming; that's a given.

However, the playstyle you noted does not put you in any danger of having your characters deleted or being forcibly removed from the game. You're safe there.

Nothing you described would fall under the categories of "extreme" or "abuse" or "egregious" or "exploit," especially since Positron indicated those all go together (the worst of the worst).

Have fun, with no worries.

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Thanks Joyce.

So these people that are afraid of running anything involving the MA system:

Are afraid that their character might get removed and/or account banned based on criteria not given to the player.
Coupled with a ticket cap and reduce xp from custom mobs... gives them no reason to use the MA system over standard paper missions.

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Joyce's post did give the criteria. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to know when something is an extreme exploit. The Rikti Comm abusers and fire imp exploiters knew exactly what they were doing. Unless you're do something very similar, there's nothing to fear.

The examples have been given. It is impossible to define *exactly* what can be an exploit, because if they knew about all of them, they would be addressed. Players will always find a way to get around the system; they do so at their own risk.

Positron made it clear in his FAQ that "normal" farming is not in danger. It's only the extreme, worst of the worst exploits that are.

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Uhm. I have see chat from allot of people that are "scared" of being banned just because they have done a mish twice cause they like it. There is a new sense of fear amoung players now. I see it mostly in newer players, but it's not limited to them. As Sg leader and being on vent I hear that topic more now then ever before and these people aren't your farmers either. it's the people that want to finish their 50's off with io's or the early level procs and they don't have 120 mil to spend.

So whether that fear was intended to scare the normal player or not it's most certainly here and among the veteran players who don't farm as well. The Devs have achieved that goal.

MA is fun and it's a great thing for the game for sure no one said it wan't fun. But the nerfs have changed my mood towards it and the patch changes and talk from posi have scared allot of other people who don't farm. And it's not a "being in the right circle" thing either. You listen hard enough you'll hear it.

But even so, this is still my favorite game and I still support it even though I hate what some changes have done.

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But nothing Positron's post said should inspire such fear in those players. Nothing at all.

All he said was that those who purposefully abused the "extreme" exploits could be affected. That's it. No "anti-farmer" threats were made, no "we're out to get you if we get a whiff of impropriety," nothing like that at all.

The fear is not because of what Positron said, it's because of what others have said about it. Forum fearmongers caused it, not Positron.

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Personally I welcome this entire idea as it allows me to finally bring my red side hero toons (yes, my dom and MM are heroes and RP'd as such) over to Paragon City where they really belong.

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Heh, some of us already do this -- via Mission Architect.

My MA Mastermind will never see Rogue Isles, except to train up skills; I intended to level him up entirely in the MA playing heroic missions.

Another possibility is if the arc used a map that was among the ones pulled. Possibly the author pulled it down to revamp it.

This is exactly what excites me most about MA. I'm not overly concerned about ratings, just in having fun.

My wife, daughter, and I all play together -- quite literally, all in the same room -- and will being doing this. My brother and my wife's brother play as well, but it's hit or miss as to how often all of us can get together.

But with the three of us, we have nine mission arcs available up front, plus rotating arcs in/out as desired. This pretty much gives us unlimited content, especially when added to the existing dev content.

Have I mention somewhere on these forums that I love the MA?

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Eh, I'm sorry, but that's pretty weak. Every minion has a reason to be there - otherwise, your arc is not a story but a shooting gallery. Your minion text doesn't have to be Hemingway, but there should be something to say about every mob in the game. Whether they're just amoral roughnecks recruited off the street and hoping to make a quick buck, soulless corpses animated by a necromancer to inconvenience his enemies, ex-military traitors, normal citizens driven insane by some weird space ray, whatever. If you don't identify why they're there, you're just saying, "These are video game characters who popped into existence for no reason at all other than to absorb the bullets of the good guys." Which may be true but it's terrible storytelling.

It doesn't HAVE to be "interesting". But your audience is going to be fighting dozens of these guys. A basic grasp of what they're doing there is the backdrop for your whole arc.

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I understand your point; however, when I've got three custom minions and a pair of LTs in a group, finding five different ways of saying that they're all guns for hire can get monotonous, both for the writer and the reader. Can it be done? Sure. But it doesn't really add much of anything to the story.

I can see both sides of it, really. In the one arc I've published, I did include brief minion descriptions. But it's not a priority for me.

Again, considering that Positron said very strongly that they were only going after the worst-case exploiters, challenge missions should be okay. It's not difficult to tell the difference between exploits (fire imps with 5HP giving LT level XP) and challenging content (all boss missions, which will vary in difficulty based on AT).

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Would I start doing challenge missions again if there was no reward?

Yes.

Do I run them now? No, not worth the risk to publish one to have someone report it for a violation of their artistic standards.

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As long as there is risk to go with the reward, you're okay. As noted many times. Only exploits where there is very little risk with really large rewards are an issue.

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And specifically regarding custom and boss descriptions: absolutely. That text is the window into that character's reason for being. Whether he's a fanatical cultist, a paid mercenary, or a terrified slave who's more scared of his master than he is of me, I need to know why I'm fighting these guys, and why they're fighting back. "Because he's standing between you and Point B" is not acceptable for any arc pretending to have a story.

Boss dialogue can definitely illustrate this too, and is equally important, but I still feel a boss is hollow and two-dimensional without at least a cursory narrative description.

Best of all is when a certain character recurs throughout the arc, and the description changes based on intervening events.

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That does, however, provide spoilers if the author is trying to use the story to develop the character, perhaps through multiple mission arcs. In some respects, it's almost like reading the back of the book first -- depending entirely on the type of story being told.

If this is going to be a single mission arc without much room for "real" character development, then yes, we are limited by the medium and tools at hand. Providing at least clues to the character in the bio gives us some outlet for developing the character.

However, if you want the character to be mysterious and want to develop the character through storytelling, including that information in the bio would defeat the purpose.