docbuzzard

Oh goody this rebuttal again. It is, in fact, the most useless form of argument we see, and yet we see it all the time.

Look, if you are not comparing ATs in quantifiable terms (DPS, DPAS, damage mitigation, buffing potential, debuffing potential), then you are blowing smoke. Subjective analysis is utterly meaningless. It's like having a discussion of nutritional value, and then countering with "I like chocolate". That's all well and nice, but it is utterly irrelevant.

There are things which can be measured with numbers and hence can be compared objectively. Fun is not one of those things.

If you are trying to argue about the comparative effectiveness of ATs, you have to use an objective quantifiable basis for comparison or you the argument might as well be "my daddy can beat up your daddy" in preschool.

If you are balancing ATs and power sets you have to use the hard numbers. Any other basis is nonsense.

DPS chain studies are by definition, single target. You might want to do a little research, or maybe comprehend what I wrote. Either way, you'd come off as more coherent.

I've yet to see anyone make a claim that stalkers keep up with scrappers or brutes. If you have evidence to that effect, feel free. I've watched the DPS king threads and it is always between brutes and scrappers. Stalkers with a full team in close proximity, might keep up, but I consider it unlikely (given the limits on the crit boosting range and all that).

Again, reading comprehension on your part would probably serve you well. I do play stalkers, and quite a few in fact. It would also require a drooling idiot to claim that stalkers don't do damage. Since you are fixated on arguing against some nonexistent point, I don't know why I'm bothering, but I'll put out my actual point anyway. Stalker do pretty solid single target DPS. They are kings of burst DPS. However scrappers and brutes exceed them in sustained DPS, and are more survivable. They also, on any given set, exceed stalkers in AOE damage (at best a stalker matches as in electric melee). Burst DPS isn't terribly important in this game outside of PVP. Thus the strength of the stalker really doesn't manifest itself in most of the game.

Yes, thank you for the lecture on 'playing a stalker 101' for all those people who are utterly clueless about playing stalkers. Given that you aren't the only person who has actually played a stalker, it might behoove you to understand that others might understand them along with their strengths and weaknesses. I've played my stalkers a good bit both solo and on teams (even those <gasp> SFs and TFs). I know what they can do, and I know what I can do alternatively with other alts. I don't make my team drag by playing a stalker, but I also understand that other alts would probably speed up the process more.

Yes, and while you contribute a great deal in your head, if you weren't on the team it is fairly assured that nobody would notice. If they replaced your stalker with an ice blaster or another scrapper (or a brute, or a dom, etc), the killing would probably be faster.

Stalkers are not gimps by any means. Especially since the buffs a few issues back, they have been pretty damned good damage dealers. However, they still lag the competition.

Of course the problem is that the mythical godly single target damage of the stalker is just that, a myth. While they are the kings of burst damage, sustained DPS chain crowns are the realm of scrappers and brutes. The stalkers get to sit outside and watch the party.

While I enjoy playing stalkers, they really do have little enough to offer teams. I don't mean to say they are a drain, but let's be honest, the slot is likely to be better filled by about anything else (though admittedly the difference may be quite small).

I believe part of the problem is that the devs, for some reason I don't quite get, value resistance mitigation much higher than defense mitigation. This should be readily apparent from the plethora of defense buffing options (in pool powers and sets, not to mention the complete IO advantage to defense over resistance). When the rubber meets the road defense is usually better since if you don't get hit, the rider ability doesn't hit you either (be it a mez, slow, end drain or whatever).

There is a big difference between a power which makes a spawn harmless and an easy target and a power which scatters the spawn with knockback. I'll take the former any day. Yes, force bubble can protect a team, but it will also slow their AOE mowing ability down.

What is wrong with so many people here? Why does everyone fixate on the knockdown part of the power when the -to hit is what makes the power great? Slot the power for -to hit debuff and with it down, nothing will hit you. I don't care if they are standing or not, it doesn't matter if they can't hit a damned thing. That's real damage mitigation, not tossing people around.

Yes, that power is utter crap. Though I find it amusing that you finally mention convenience for a team here, when you blithely ignore how much tossing people around with massive knockback powers is almost as annoying.

Not really that great. Slows don't stack all that well, and the magnitude isn't that spectacular. It's a one trick pony, and slows aren't that great a trick.

Definite over hype here. It's a decent power, but there are better. It's not perma out of the box, and it's single target to boot.

Not a bad power, but not exactly godly since so many ATs have HP caps which can't be helped much by it.

Comparing to crap isn't much of a comparison. I'd rather have sonic siphon than this.

False. Knocking back targets is nowhere the same as a hold. Yes, it provides mitigation, but also scatter. If we're talking a bubbler who has any clue, he's already providing close to softcapped defense to a team so knocking back foes just slows down the team. A hold leaves the target in place for be mowed down. Knockback is not so kind.

"perma liquefy, but without the good parts"
What a nonsensical statement. It's like people think only the hopping around visible part of the power are important. What hogwash.

Yes, but as with all buffs given the way in which effects stack in this game, getting close to a buff cap is much more meaningful than adding just a little bit.

I do admit, however, that thermal will protect better in general, though I don't think it debuffs as well.

Bollocks. If you can't be hit, you don't take damage. Also you really better get a grasp of the AOE debuff vs. the single target debuff.

Regen aura isn't bad, but it's not perma, and doesn't help against damage spikes.

As for fort, it's not bad. However you can only keep it on a couple teammates and you have to spend a fair amount of work maintaining it. It also requires double the slotting of the sonic shields to work at best (recharge in addition to defense). Though again, stacking buffs are the key here, with the sonic shields coupled with the big bubble adding a decent amount of mitigation.

Storm, if played right is an amazing set which can protect a team well and debuff enemies into goo. However there's a hell of a lot more people who think they play storm well than actually do. In the hands of a poor player, it's a bloody nightmare which will royally piss off a team, and slow down their effectiveness.

Yes, and Fort can't be provided to a whole team.

While I agree that sonic could probably use a bit of help, the situation is nowhere near as dire as you paint it. Sonic is a compromise between damage mitigation and damage output enhancement. The ability to debuff a single target to the tune of a 60% resistance debuff is huge. Couple that with a 55% resistance buff and you really aren't talking chicken feed.

It is a bit limited in tricks, I admit, and the recharge on Liquefy is rather over long, but people really are selling the set short with hyperbolic nonsense.

Evidently you've never bothered to actually use it or check the numbers. Liquefy is a spectacular "oh crap" button which will effectively take opposition right out of combat. The knockdown, hold, and massive to hit debuff will turn an enemy spawn into a bunch of toddlers on whiskey.

Did you actually just say Liquefy is worthless? Have you ever bothered to actually play the set? Good lord, Liquefy is a spectacular power.

That's another decent option. I just think siphon needs a bit more umph since it's a pretty unspectacular single tasker.

Yeah, WM went from the gimpiest melee set to a contender. It was always OK in AOE, but lagged significantly in single target. With the adjustment to clobber, and the reduction in animation times on some of the other attacks, its single target ability was increased markedly. Then the switching of the target cap of 10 from shatter to crowd control made for a huge upgrade in actual AOE performance.

Problem with stone melee is that it is AOE poor. It does kick butt on the single target work, but AOEs really are more important in the end.

Yes, I agree with this. I never quite understood why stalkers got an inferior build up.

Well there is that pesky fact that Luck Charms do not an entire market make, and salvage going for the thousands is fairly irrelevant in the grander scheme of the market. When we are talking about rare IO sets which go for astronomical prices redside and even then are rarely available, the merger will be an extremely positive thing. Individual spot prices may well go up, but the overall costs redside will go down and availability will certainly go up.

A while back I did specifically ask Castle if powers were balanced around damage type and he said they were not.

Thus I don't know if it would be a balance issue if a broadsword became flaming (or whatnot).

I can't see any new sets with stacking mezzes. Energy Melee already demonstrated what trouble that could be, and it got the nerf bat for it (I mean other than the ET nerf).

I do like most of the rest of the ideas though.

Already here in Dark Extraction. The warshade dark fluffy power.

Already here in Unchain Essence. Another Warshade power for popping bodies with a big boom.

Warshades already have most of the corpse handling powers. Now it might have been nice if necromancers had some more (they do have their Soul Extraction power which is of this nature), but there is at least one. Other dead effects might have been nice in that set, but the rather limited corpse duration in this game would complicate things a bit much if too many powers relied on them.

Yep, that's pretty much how I pictured it.