Werner
-
Posts
3682 -
Joined
-
Quote:Yeah, a little clarification on what is desired would help. I read the request as "best survivability, best single target DPS, best AoE, no compromises". Most people are fixating largely on the "make me immortal" portion of the request, and perhaps that IS the most important part, since it's the thread title. But "damage of monster proportions" was also requested.Originally Posted by Gaidin
Quite true. I think I got fixated on Fire/ due to the prior points about it's better AoE potential.Quote:Originally Posted by MunkiLord
Why not just do DM/SR instead of Fire/SR? You get siphon life and an excellent attack chain. Besides, MunkiLord is DM/SR and I love him. Though I don't think /SR is the right answer in general.
So I can't recommend DM/SR. My own DM/SR only puts out maybe 185 DPS, which is about 100 DPS away from top end Fire/Shield and Dark/Shield DPS. I made some DPS compromises for maximum survivability, though. I suspect that 200 DPS could be reached with a small drop in survivability, and on paper I've seen 217 DPS for a bigger drop in survivability (though still at the soft cap). Still, that isn't nearly enough DPS to compete with the big boys, and the AoE is negligible. Also, it's noticeably less survivable than my Katana/Dark in most situations, shining only when defense debuffs are involved. Granted, that does probably describe the ITF, but I have no ITF experience with either character to comment intelligently. -
Quote:The dev comment was kind of cryptic. If I understand what Umbral says about it though, all they're doing is fixing a bug where health enhancement in Physical Perfection also boosted the +recovery of the Numina proc, and endurance enhancement in Physical Perfection also boosted the +regeneration. I'm guessing that the Miracle proc didn't have this bug, and thus wasn't fixed and won't be fixed because there's nothing to fix. Crossing my fingers, anyway, because my Katana/Dark depends on that Miracle for sustainability.Originally Posted by Enots
Here is a semi-cheap (no purples, PVP IO's) softcapped fire/shield with aid self. It comes with a huge disclaimer though. The dev's are in the process of fixing the ability to "supercharge" the numina proc (leading me to believe the miracle proc will get the axe too), which will most likely knock the endurance down to unsustainable levels, even with conserve power.
-
Quote:Yeah, DM/Invuln has the record for simultaneous dev AVs soloed no temps no insps. I can't remember the number. Something insane like 8 or 9. It has awesome survivability in its element. But as you say, psi hole, lacking in AoE, and merely good DPS.Originally Posted by MunkiLord
DM/Invul is a good option as well. You're lacking in AoE and your defense has a huge hole when it comes to psi damage. But it's incredibly tough and has good ST damage. My buddy tanked Lord Recluse in the STF two nights ago using his. Only heals we had at that time was a kin defender, so he wasn't much help until we managed to get down the correct tower.
-
Quote:Well, soft-capped positional defense, which is significantly better. It pretty much can't be killed by anything but defense debuffing mobs, which are unfortunately its Achilles' heel.Originally Posted by JamMasterJMS
Tricked out kat/da's are scary things.
Solid resists to all damage types
the best heal in the game
capped s/l defense
But that's with a very specific primary (well, two primaries) and completely tricked out. While we CAN soft cap Dark Armor without the sword primaries, the builds I've seen and fiddled with are still a bit compromised in other ways. And without IOs or a sword primary, I'd call Dark Armor fun but mediocre, kind of like Shield Defense.
I do really like Dark Armor. I think both it and Regeneration have the most personality, and I like my secondaries to have personality. I just wouldn't rate either near the top on performance except for very specific builds. -
Quote:Yeah, good point. It WILL be a bit of a trick to soft cap and keep 95% DDR on Fire/Shield with the Medicine pool. I'm only guessing that it's possible. I haven't tried and haven't paid enough attention to people's Fire/Shield builds.Originally Posted by Gaidin
As a caveat, I don't know how easy soft-capping and keeping 95% DDR is on a Fire/Shield if your taking the Medicine Pool...
I'll need to start paying attention, since I now have one at 29, and the orange numbers floating up already seem as big as the numbers from my Katana/Dark. Might be wanting to IO this one out.
For pure immortality, my soft-capped Katana/Dark is my most survivable scrapper by far (see sig), but has a serious Achilles' heel - defense debuffs. He can farm the wall in Cimerora with no problem, but +4x8 Cimerorans average about one face plant per group. Arachnos is doable at +4x8, but involves several face plants per mission. Also difficult to recommend due to generally poor damage output.
Dark Melee/Shield Defense is excellent for single-target damage, but not so much on AoE. That's why I was recommending Fire/Shield, assuming that the pros I gave are actually possible on a real build. -
Quote:Doh! Why didn't I think of that? Thanks!Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Oh, and your buddy with the borked build? He can use his second build as a "ghetto respec" to correct his mistakes; he'd just need new enhancements... not much of an issue in the low levels anyway.
-
Quote:Yeah, Katana/Willpower would be an excellent choice if it weren't for the DPS and AoE issues. Not that its damage output is bad; it's just very middle of the road. On the survivability side, though, Iggy Kamakaze soloed a MoITF with no temps and no inspirations on his. Massive survivability.Originally Posted by Purus
My vote is Kat/WP .....ok damage is not spectacular but you can soft cap range and AOE and Melee with one application of DA. Against one foe Regen can be 75ish HP/sec and 112 HP /sec against 10.
Pop a couple of performance shifter chance for + endurance in and stamina os no problem
Just wish I could egt the darn DPS up !!!! -
Mmmm, maybe Fire/Shield, fully IO'd and with Aid Self? On the survival side, you have a self heal, soft-capped defenses, 95% defense debuff resistance to handle Cimerorans and such, extra hit points, and at least passable resistance. On the damage side, you can do crazy DPS plus farming levels of AoE.
-
Quote:Yeah, figured I should give it a shot. No problems, and everything was as I remembered it except for that one mission having easy waves of ambushes twice instead of nasty waves of ambushes three times. Random spawns are random, so it might have just been the luck of the draw on the ambushes. But it was weird.Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Did you do it with Alexei?
-
Bit of a necropost, but did they tone down the "Steal data from Longbow" mission in Gaussian's arc? I'm used to waves of ambushes by nasty, super powered heroes, using evil "tricks" like fear. I also thought I remembered fighting two of them at once. This time, it was just men with guns, one at a time, and one main boss with a tier 9 in the final room. Never had to use my heal. Never was in any danger. Lame! Also, my ambushes for the last glowie never materialized, and I explored the entire map afterward trying to find them. I'm going to be very disappointed if they toned it down (i.e., broke the challenge). Or did I just get really lucky on the bosses, and was blind to the ambush the way it's easy sometimes to miss that last glowie, that last enemy you need to beat?
-
Quote:Off topic - it's easy now? I've never done it. I've never been short on respecs. But I just convinced... er... forced a friend to get a trial account, and he's already made a few minor errors in his build (slots in Brawl, for instance). One of the things he was complaining about in <other MMO> was being forced into pick up groups with stupid people. So when I saw build mistakes, I was worried that he'd have to run a really difficult trial with a pick up group, and end up hating CoH for the exact same reason. Sounds like it's a piece of cake now?Originally Posted by Silas
I miss the original Respec trial. It's so watered down and boring now.
-
Quote:Still very little reason to take Elude. Once you're soft capped with good defense debuff resistance, you don't need more defense except in rather rare situations, and you can keep purples for those situations if you wish. Recovery is nice, but with an endurance crash, it doesn't seem worth it. Speed might be nice, but you already have a lot of options for getting around a map quickly. I tried it out just to make sure, and I hated it, and dropped it on the next respec. I wouldn't suggest taking Elude.Originally Posted by Mercator
So, someone I spoke to long ago enlightened me on the idea of the Elude-less SR build. I've been away for a while and things have changed. Is there still a strong reason to go without it, or is it a viable option in the late-game SR designs?
-
Quote:Well... I wouldn't put it so harshly, but... yes. Pure regeneration of health, on its own, is not going to get you very far. The Regeneration secondary, by itself, without selection of powers designed to complement it, is not particularly powerful.Originally Posted by Shadowraithe
This is what I am confused about. Are you saying Regen by itself is no good?
Well, kind of. At least if you avoid the sword primaries and the defense and resistance powers available from power pools. It's just not going to be particularly good. Not unplayably bad, but not particularly good.Quote:Originally Posted by Shadowraithe
That wouldn't that make it the worst secondary if it wasn't for IOs? Without them, it doesn't seem like you'd be able to get any good defense out of it.
Why should any secondary need to stand on its own? You can get additional mitigation from your primary. You can get additional mitigation from power pools. You can get additional mitigation from IOs. Players are, I'd say, generally expected to take advantage of these options, and they must be taken into account when balancing the secondaries. The secondaries are not played in a vaccuum. They are played in actual builds. Now, the devs presumably balance primarily around SO performance, but they've either accidentally or much more likely intentionally done a very good job of balancing around IO performance as well.Quote:Originally Posted by Shadowraithe
...I could up defense too but what would be the point? Then I go into basically the same builds everyone else has/wants and regen really should stand on its own....
In general, the best strategy for survival is layered mitigation - defense, damage resistance, and healing or regeneration. Some secondaries emphasize one at the expense of the others. Regeneration is all about the healing and regeneration, while Super Reflexes is mostly about the defense. Generally speaking, those secondaries could be described as "out of balance". They're a stool with only a single leg. Granted, you can just build up that one leg if you wish, and it'll be playable. But from a survivability perspective, you're best served by working on the OTHER legs. For Regeneration, that means adding defense and resistance (recharge helps a whole lot too, but doesn't really fit the analogy, so analogy fail). The easiest way to add a lot of defense is with Broad Sword or Katana. But you can also grab Combat Jumping, Weave, and so on. A Gaussian set and the Steadfast Protection unique are probably in range of most players. While grabbing Weave, you'll want the even more important Tough for smashing/lethal resistance. No, you won't be a soft-capped 75% resistance monster with Regeneration. But adding some defense and resistance will still help balance out your survivability.
Now obviously, you can play what you want. When I was leveling up Werner (Katana/Regen) years and years ago, I was going for absolute maximum regeneration at the expense of everything else. I knew that it wasn't the optimal approach, but it was what I wanted to play. And I enjoyed it a lot. So I'm certainly not telling you to play differently. I'm just saying that there are good reasons that people are bumping up their defense and recharge on Regeneration builds. It isn't herd behavior, though there could be some of that as well. It's well-considered build optimization. -
The secondaries are well balanced in PvE (I'll let others answer PvP questions). They differ much more in flavor than they do in power, though Shield Defense is flavor of the month due to what it can achieve when IO'd out. It's nothing special while leveling up, though.
Answering your question on Regen specifically, no, I wouldn't call it best in PvE. But having Quick Recovery from level 4 makes for easy leveling, it's a good solo set, and it's probably the most interactive set, requiring the most focus and micromanagement. For some, the click happy nature of it is a drawback. For others, it just makes things more interesting. -
Well, I don't usually team and most of my toons have redraw, so maybe that's why the delay didn't bug me. Broad Sword/Shield Defense was the most fun I've had soloing from 1 to 50. I never bothered IOing out, so can't report on the post 50 fun factor. But 1-50? Awesomesauce.
Not that Fire/Willpower would be bad. Willpower is a very go-go-go secondary due to its fast health and endurance recovery. Fire puts out a lot of damage. But I just can't imagine having more fun with it than I had with BS/SD.
-
Quote:It's unpossible!Originally Posted by Kractis_Sky
newest scrapper challenge: find a combo that sucks!
I'm leveling up a Martial Arts/Fire. It was my best attempt at making a scrapper that sucks. Unfortunately, I was able to bump the difficulty from a very early level, and he's been a blast to play.
Anyway, yeah, Broad Sword/Fire should be good. Fire is one of the squishier secondaries, but like Shred Monkey said, "Use Parry liberally and you don't even need a secondary." I recommend leading with Parry, even if it's sad not leading with a devastating attack, because the most dangerous part of the fight for you will be the very beginning, before you get your defenses up, and when they're all nailing you with the alpha strike. So lead with Parry, take the alpha strike, heal, then tear them apart. (Note: I don't have a BS/Fire. I'm making an educated guess on tactics based on my Katana/Dark, which should play fairly similarly.) Slot Parry largely as an attack, though maybe a purple or two. For extra defense and resistance, pick up Combat Jumping or Hover, and Tough and Weave. -
I'd think that +3 team size with bosses would be realistic. But you're at level 35? Eh, almost certainly not soft-capped to anything but melee then. Might be other issues due to the year off. You might not have Tough and Weave yet. Probably no set bonuses for defense yet. It'll get a lot better.
To address the SR curse, you want more than just defense, though soft-capping your defense (45%) will do wonders for making the curse less frequent (use purples until you get there naturally). You're looking for hit points and additional resistance. Hit points you can get with accolades (and set bonuses if you're ready to start slotting, though many wait until 50 these days). Resistance you can get with Tough (and making sure you have all the passives). Just having some more hit points and a little Smashing/Lethal resistance will go a long way towards keeping you vertical.
I'm not sure how much the devs intended us to use their difficulty slider. When they gave it to us, I think they were throwing down the gauntlet and asking us to pick it up. From I believe the release notes:
"So if you ever wanted to see if your scrapper could take on a map that is populated for an 8 person team, four levels higher than your own, now you can!"
The old "Invincible" is probably closest to what now is +2 levels to you, and equivalent to one hero. That's NOTHING compared to how nasty you can crank it to now. It IS possible for some of the most tricked-out scrappers to play +4x8 against some to most villain groups, but I don't think it's exactly expected. -
Quote:Heh. Something like that, yeah. Leveling up a Fire/Shield now. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em. I'll probably hit 50 and IO out just in time for a big nerf.Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
It's hard... but let's be honest for moment. This is what we must do to justify not playing /Shields.
-
Bah! I saw that the most recent post was by Shred Monkey, and was hoping you'd just posted some awesome build to put us all to shame.
I'm not so sure we want to settle for a super low recharge chain on Dark Armor, though. Recharge improves Dark Regeneration, which, even at the soft cap, is still one of the most critical powers. So I'm not sure I'd set, for instance, "good chain at 0% global recharge" as a goal, because I wouldn't want 0% global recharge as a goal.
And just to get on board as I try to make continued improvements to this concept, what are people focusing on that makes them see the builds as unplayable? Is it the endurance usage? That's the reason that I wouldn't want to play the one I made, but I consider my "needs" (no temp no insp AV soloing) to be special, not general.
Iggy's first build has a 2.36 EPS recovery before attacks, and also has Conserve Power. I'd have to do some math to check it, but on the surface, it doesn't look like it would have an endurance problem for anything BUT pylon and AV soloing without temps or inspirations, and it might be OK even there. Does that one not count because it has typed defense and Fire and Cold aren't soft capped?
So, what are we shooting for here? 45% defense to all positions OR to SLFCEN with sustainable endurance usage for no temp no insp pylon and AV soloing? That's a pretty strange definition of "playable"! Mind you, it's the definition I'd be using for my own play, so I'm with y'all. Oh! And Cloak of Fear instead of Oppressive Gloom, because I agree with Celidya that it's more fun (and a better choice for a soft-capped Darkie). Do we need to add a 200+ DPS requirement to make Shred Monkey happy too? This is getting hard!
But really, if we can get a 200+ DPS, soft-capped non-sword Dark Armor with sustainable endurance use and Cloak of Fear, how cool would that be? I don't think it's possible, particularly if Shred's been working on it for two weeks without success, but maybe... just maybe... -
Quote:I think we've only abandoned reason in the sense that there's little reason to soft cap Dark Armor except to take on some of the toughest challenges in the game, presumably with no temps, no insps. And if you're doing that, you need sustainable endurance, not a three or four minute stint of endurance.Originally Posted by Desmodos
Alright, since we've abandoned reason a while back, it occurred to me one might as well go for typed defense instead. The end result is no more playable than some of the other suggestions but this one has the benefit of possessing every Dual Blade attack.
But regular team play? Challenges with inspirations? +4x8? I think the endurance on some of these will be fine, particularly when you can detoggle some things as the situation allows.
Looks like typed defense is a pretty viable alternative. Psionic defense isn't good, but psionic resistance is, and the positionals are good enough that it isn't really a hole in the build. -
Depending on your budget, you could also consider Shield Defense. Fully-IO'd, Fire/Shield is everything that Fire/SR is, and more. For a budget build, though, Fire/Super Reflexes is pretty amazing. It's perhaps the cheapest way to solo AVs with no temporary powers or inspirations.
-
Quote:What? It's ONLY Dark Armor. Isn't that light on endurance???Originally Posted by Desmodos
You two and your Stamina-less builds are just killing me
-
No Scrapper is truly squishy, but Fire Armor is towards the squishier end of the scale, and Fire Melee provides no mitigation to help the situation.
-
Version 2. AoE drops to 45%, but net recovery goes up by 0.41 EPS and resistances are improved across the board. My guess is that it will fight for a little under a minute, then Conserve Power gives you another 90 seconds, then it will fight for a little under a minute. Maybe three minutes of fight total. Not great, but getting better. Also, it has both Tactics and a Kismet unique. You won't likely need Tactics running most of the time. You could also turn off Hover, and still be at 44.7%, 45.3% and 43.1%, which would be fine for most play. The build isn't yet one I'd play, but it's enough to make me guess that you could actually pull it off.
Code:Edit: Version 2.1. Another 0.06 EPS and better smashing/lethal resistance.| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1423;721;1442;HEX;| |78DA9D535B6F1251103ECB42B794E556A4B4F4022DF406ED96AAB1D5261ADB6AA29| |68494A60FB52D5961B95804B26062A331F5DD275F7CF24DABFE04E33F51FF89569C| |CB81F4D90D7CDFD933DFCC9939339B7DB1AD0B71764728BEADBAD96E17F245DB6CB| |52CDB95352BB5E260BE59EEC4B7CC96268488F66C85AC55B72C63FBB9592F6CD6CD| |92D51EEF9BB6ADB2D56883D1B44F0A77ED674D3BF8A051B56CABD1317A0B3DD76CD| |68D1DCB6CD51A150FBDDCAFD72AD58EBF67285976BB5A6B79D986265006EFB56A45| |63B3593A2D64CD76C7B24F4721AB45F8BFC4F4E8E9BAC401D0BC703C26721E321D1| |1C58F89A60B448BE8A590972A6E0369AA70481EB8AA0AB12A1211B04F8A579A1442| |7C85E3EB1C5FE7F83E8EEFE3F8018E9F022F95E3BBD4DF0E8C17F843347CC1F497E| |84A9749D09111F072F1590ED70FB20CFC241AFC45F41A049AE2A0B05A5990A54234| |5465AA118D3C653A215A022F372723DCB2C834EC7978CFE1B9AEA06C224334758DC| |80D02AF1478399751CE6594731901815F5EA19F05532C986241FC42E0057A401794| |45055937C1BA38EB741084A420C482280BA22C38034158B6207C70B98D49EE44923| |B91E44ECC712796C12BA228E415D9A04073EB5CFCDCB08A99CDEF52A5F379A63D22| |03DCC66459636BA88739EB7198248B8FA85B41D81967A532BEC691A7252B1A1EC05| |73ED98547A8B01393EA986C4242B2136C33D23623232424BF01DBAC2C7E962729C5| |9394E2494AF1EC2CF1402DF140E5616F419EBF90A62938F70A919623997ECFE2774| |4CB0F15BAB07DAA6E394EF215A6101C6F482FE323C9573E319D13AD7E66FAC2F495| |28035E193971991B5CC884B3FFA1C20FAF64E7F28E9B1C73CEFED7261412C59CFD2| |FB5EB0E9054B0FF7F3DDFF45E38F7EE10E01E420E40D9C7D521C211BE1EE3CAC4D5| |138422BE76BFEBBD8CFDEB98D74D845B081B0861C84FBC45A5E601F020E8085E041| |F821F2180104288227C40E8FE032F07FD20| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
-
Here's around 47% to all positions. Attack Chain is Blinding Feint -> Attack Vitals -> Power Slice. Endurance isn't even close to sustainable, but it might be bearable if you pack blues and turn off powers situationally. I wouldn't recommend it as is, but maybe it could be adjusted to something reasonable.
Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1419;719;1438;HEX;| |78DA9D535B6F1241149E65A15BCA722B5228B494DEA005BAA5DE5A6DA2B1AD269A9| |234A5E9436D4B56BA052C025930B1D198FAEE932F3EF9A6557F82F19FA8FF442B9E| |CB40FAEC06BE6F66CE772E3373A6F0624317E2ECAE507CEB75B3DD2E15CBB6D96A5| |9B6AB60566AE5C162F3B8935C375B9A1022D6B3950A56DDB28C8DE766BDB456378F| |AC76BC6FDAB08EAD461B8CA67D52BA673F6BDAC1878DAA655B8D8ED11BE85BCD66D| |DD8B4CC56AD51F1D0E441BD56A976FC3DC39165B7ABB596976D680265F07EAB5636| |D69A47A7A582D9EE58F66914AA9A87FF4B2C8FBEAE4BEC01A545F28068B244347D4| |834FF9828B7CF33F452A4571E064BC2B1C4748DC8799DE906D1C05515E995269DC0| |4BE15C3A87D539AC8F33FB3865800BC880972A73A9BF1D1828F08768F882E92FD19| |52E93A05C11F072712E87EB0759067E120DFE227A0D024D715058ED5890A5423454| |65AA118D3C653A21CA81979B8B11EE280CC64516963CBCE4F0F0B6C7F848127C166| |E1078A5C0CBA544B99428973202023F0B543F0B122C48B02079213093077441B9A7| |20EBC65897649D0E82901484581063418C05672008CB1B08EF5DBEE619BE8819BE8| |819BE88145FC40278451485BC22AB1428B502334D15A961152B4B6FD34ED345A61D| |2203DC46E5BE4797510F2DD7E3304982308CB344892F73C849C98A8691F9A8C7BBF| |009155626A47AE20EABA62374094E304D49D3940C302DF90DD866E5A667B98132DC| |40196EA00CB74C8EFB28C77D5484B539997E2E4B977FEE1522CB499CD9F7A45A78A| |4D009BDE3D92EED6A3149F210E43564E31A1F49B0F889E99C68E933D317A6AF4479| |F0CACB0ECBDFE41D8C39FB8F147E78149B9757DCE4B8E5ECBF2EA19068C2D97FA55| |D7780A482FDFFEBFBA6F7C2B9B787007710B600945D1CED231CE0F41047268E9E20| |9471DAFDAEF72AF6AF605DB7106E23AC2284A13EF116959A07C083A02378117C087| |E840042082186F001A1FB0FEB99FD5D| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|