Werner

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So whenever anyone manages the task, using whatever means, say well done, and then ask whats their next challange going to be. Keep driving folks forward as a group, then and only then will we reach maximum potential.

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You, Sir, have an amazing sense of perspective, and rawk in general.

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One character against one archvillain = AV soloing.

Anyone is free to make up their own imaginary rules, but you shouldn't expect everyone to play that way.

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Oh ..didn't know that. Well guys, excuse me while I go get some fresh shivans, a warburg nuke, a full tray of tier 3 inspirations, and a pocket chuck norris. I'll be back tomorrow to brag about the AV I took down with my MA/DA scrapper.

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Feel free, because if you do that, you did "solo an AV" in my book. I'm not sure how we're arguing anything else. Whether it was an accomplishment worth bragging about is a completely different story, but you did solo an AV.

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you cycle through attacks and kill things. Great fun at first, gets old.

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If you only had one button, the "Awesome" Button, why would you press any other button?

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I shudder to think that there are players who really think like this.

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I hit the “I win!” button! I win! Yay!

I'll second what has already been said. Don't waste time on Laser Beam Eyes in your attack chain. It will benefit your team more for you to actually put out some damage. If you're that concerned about helping the team hit, pick up Tactics and perhaps Assault. It works against all targets instead of just one. It can't be resisted by the bad guys. It won't kill your damage output.

Sometimes on the forum it seems like simply EVERYONE is doing it. But yeah, a common topic does not make it a common occurrence. I'd guess maybe 50 players do it no temps, no inspirations. The number would be very low because I suspect that almost nobody introduces artificial constraints just to make the job harder. Maybe 1000 players have soloed AVs using all the tools at their disposal. Many of those wouldn't be scrappers. Both are just wild guesses.

Replying to multiple people in one message to save time:

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When the scrapper forum refers to AV soloing we tend to carry the underlying message of No Temps/Insps.

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Sort of. When someone asks for an AV soloing build, I usually interpret it as a no temps, no inspirations AV soloing build, because with temps and inspirations, you don't need a specific build. But when someone says they soloed an AV, I don't assume it was done with no temps no inspirations unless that is stated explicitly.

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Having a shivan or HVAS means you're not solo'ing, you're duo'ing.

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I'd call it soloing, same as a Mastermind is soloing. Pets are not the same thing as other players, no matter how powerful the pet. To me, soloing is one player, not one in-game entity.

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Using Temps or Insps, hell, almost anyone can probably solo an AV.

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True. But it doesn't mean they have.

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While you're of course technically right, I just don't think anyone considers it a great accomplishment to "solo" an AV w/temps or insps.

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I'll agree with this too. I think you technically soloed an AV even if you burn through all your inspirations, bio nuke him from space, and the Shivan does the rest. I just won't be impressed. At all. But the fewer tools you use, the more I'll be impressed. Pop a few reds to finish off Diabolique when she starts bubbling? I won't think any less of you. I'll be suitably impressed.

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Edit: Also the no temps/no insps is something I think Werner did to challenge his build now every one thinks that is the rule. It is not a rule it is a challenge.

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I doubt I was the first. I did do a couple AVs that way ages ago, maybe a month before Shred Monkey started his AV project that I think kicked off the whole forum thing. I had no idea if others were doing it. I considered posting to ask, but didn't. I did end up posting about it, but it was just a comment in a “what did you do this weekend” thread that probably almost nobody saw. Basically, I enjoyed the RWZ challenge, and that style of play, so I started applying it to other things in the game.

Me, personally, I'm only counting AVs that I can solo without temps or inspirations. That's how I built my characters, and I enjoy the extra challenge. In a sense, it's kind of stupid, since I'm actually avoiding AVs that would be a challenge with inspirations, and are impossible without.

While I can't speak for everyone, it seems like most of us stay away from temporary powers, since there are a few that can almost trivialize an AV fight. And inspiration use seems to be specific – not used if you can get away with it, or using specific inspirations for specific AVs that would be impossible without them.

But I don't think any of that is implied by “soloing an AV” except when someone is asking for build advice.

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Then Werner brought his "no temps/no insps" rule forcing the rest of the AV crowd to get with the times and make even more refined builds to be able to match his accomplishments

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I think Shred Monkey was the first to post a thread with no temps no inspirations AV soloing, even though he didn't make it a personal rule. I believe most or the majority of his AVs were soloed without temps or inspirations, and he just used inspirations when the AV would otherwise be impossible, which wasn't all that many. But yeah, I suppose I was the one that turned it into a personal rule. But it was just a rule for myself, because I really wanted to test out my builds, and felt that, for instance, popping purples to get to the soft cap wasn't really testing the BUILD. Plus I just like that play style. I like that feeling of having one hand tied behind my back and still beating the odds.

The green glow? Point for Willpower in my book. Yellow tends to go better with my costumes than green.

Pretty good, yes. I shoot for higher, but it takes a high budget for all the uniques and such. I heal 27 hit points per second on my Super Reflexes, which is about typical for the cost-no-object builds I play with in Mids'.

Sergei dies every time with 1796 hit points and regenerating 27 hit points per second. But who knows, maybe he's this close to surviving.

I'm comparing these chains with serious DPS builds already. The 202 DPS build, for instance, already has the Armageddon set in Shadow Maul. It has a Hecatomb set in Smite plus another damage proc, and Midnight Grasp has two damage procs. The build has a 25% damage buff from sets, 10.5% from Assault, Soul Drain is almost permanent (30.8 second recharge), there's a chance of build up proc in Tactics, the works.

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10? You people are crazy.

I think I'm being risky if I craft TWO of the same thing.

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I guess I'm completely mad, then. I'll happily fill a storage unit with my crafted set IOs. I craft in bulk. Put out bids for multiple stacks of recipes. Buy multiple stacks of salvage. Craft like mad. Fill the storage unit. Sign in every few days and put another ten or twenty on the market until I'm getting low. Repeat. Profit.

If I was smarter, I'd have a crafting toon and a selling toon so that I could be working the buying and selling angles simultaneously. Not sure what my damage is.

In any case, my niches have been largely risk free so far. Profits go up and down, but I don't think I've ever made less than half a million per IO no matter how badly the bottom dropped out, so I never feel like I'm stuck with useless inventory. Yeah, I prefer when I'm making several million per, but somehow, I'll try to make do.

OK, I got 202 DPS out of Smite -> Shadow Maul -> Smite -> Midnight Grasp, and 189 DPS out of Smite -> Shadow Maul -> Midnight Grasp.

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and I still have inspirations.

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Wenrer uses inspiration

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Heh. Unless I'm doing something specific, yeah, I use inspirations. I don't build for their use, but I use them routinely. They kind of rain from the sky. Mostly I just keep a couple spots free, and immediately click whatever drops, at least in normal play.

Anyway, I forgot how easy Sergei is to play compared to Werner. Mind you, that's part of what I like about Werner, but anyway...

First mission was Council. The glowie came up pretty fast, so no bosses or anything. Actually only one purple bad guy. No inspirations, but it hardly counts it was so fast. Second mission was carnies, and had a L52 master illusionist. I took a handful of inspirations for that fight, but nothing else the rest of the mission. Third mission was Circle of Thorns, and technically doesn't count, since I realized halfway through that I'd left Sprint on, but hopefully you won't hold that massive survivability boost against me. I popped inspirations as they dropped for a while, just trying to get rid of the junk and back to my normal set of them. By the time I hit the boss, a L52 death mage, I was all set up. Didn't take or need any inspirations for that fight, though.

Anyway, what it largely resembles is playing on a lowbie scrapper, but with a much faster killing speed. Only really need inspirations for the tough parts, but probably do actually need them unless I want to play a slower hit and run game, which I don't.

I really think you'll find it easier than it sounds. Much easier than killing AVs or the RWZ challenge.

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I'm willing to guess that with Sergei's set bonuses and the passives, plus hard hitting attacks, one of which heals him... Invincible is not suicide at all without his toggles on.

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Right. I still have the passives, I still have set bonuses, I still have my status protection (it's a click), I still have a rapid fire heal, and I still have inspirations.

OK, I haven't done it in months. Well, I haven't played Sergei at all in months. Maybe I should try it again. Wonder how bad I'll suck...

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For whatever reason I just cannot get into SR, I am forcing myself to play my dm/sr scrapper but it's so easy. Toggles up and go, but I like to actively play my character and constantly be on the verge of death only to leap away and laugh in it's face!

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Just do what I do for entertainment on my DM/SR - turn all your toggles OFF and run invincible missions.

Yeah, I like blasters too. I hate not having mez protection, though. Oh, I'm held again. That's real fun. If it wasn't for that, I might well be a blaster guy instead of a scrapper guy.

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If I want to focus a bit on survivability/letting myself settle in in the 40s. Would throwing two extra slots in tough help with the few rare hits that get through? Since smashing/lethal tends to make up for the fact it's commonly mitigiated by being heavy and spikey.

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If you mean extra over the build I posted, absolutely. I'll definitely be adding another couple slots to it as I level. Resistance will help you a lot.

Another thing worth mentioning is Maneuvers. I took it to hit the soft cap (45%) without set IOs, but it's not really the best approach. Most builds will have Weave OR Maneuvers, and then use defense bonuses from set IOs to get the rest of the way. Weave takes you further, so I'd stick with that. You can use set IOs to get the rest of the way, or just not worry about it. As Madam Enigma points out, going all the way to 45% isn't truly necessary for most content. It's nice, though. Someone with 45% defense is only getting hit 1/4 as often as someone with 30% defense, which is a HUGE difference, as you might imagine.

With the Leadership pool dropped, I'd probably recommend Medicine and Aid Self, like you already have. Some of the uber builds skip it, but they typically have HUGE regeneration from set bonuses. Still, you may find you don't need it. I've been perfectly happy with purple and green inspirations as I leveled.

Yet another thing worth mentioning is frankenslotting. That refers to using set IOs, but mixing and matching in the attacks. It is typically done using the cheapest possible multi-aspect IOs (IOs that enhance more than one aspect of the power, like an accuracy/endurance/recharge, for instance). Such IOs add significantly more enhancement overall than you can get from SOs, and aren't particularly expensive. It just takes a little time to buy them and assemble them in a way that makes sense. I would generally start frankenslotting my attacks by the upper 20s or lower 30s, so it's been delayed longer than usual in my build, again to prove a point. You have no point to prove, so I'd recommend frankenslotting if you're up for it.

Before they nerfed Focused Accuracy, I would occasionally run out of endurance on my Katana/Regen – with Quick Recovery, Stamina, two Performance Shifter procs, all the accolades, and both uniques. All you have to do is run every high-cost toggle you can get your hands on, plus slot your fastest attack with a purple set (only 33% endurance reduction) and use it every other attack.

It would be completely worthless in Soul Drain, and not particularly good in Death Shroud. Just like any proc, frequency is important. At best, you get Soul Drain every thirty seconds or so. And the proc would get a chance every ten seconds in Death Shroud. Then you still have the problem identifying the target that ClawsandEffect mentioned. Mind you, you have that problem with Shadow Maul, but the OP was talking about using it in a single-target chain.

As for the chain I posted, yes, there might be a better one. I just took a quick stab at it to figure out if it was worth pursuing, rather than comparing all the possibilities. But I wouldn't personally drop Siphon Life – giving up 2/3 of my “regeneration” to do marginally better DPS isn't in the cards. For the sake of argument and people with other priorities, though, I certainly can. How about Smite -> Midnight Grasp -> Shadow Maul? That's our top two attacks plus the one with the proc. Smite -> Midnight Grasp -> Smite -> Shadow Maul? What would you like to see? I don't have time to calculate it this morning, and I might have company tonight, but I can get to it soonish.

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Thank ya kindly for all the info, and yeah my build is sorta really trashy now that I look at it, I was still building like "oldschool" days so I have a extra damage here, two redundant slots there, that sorta thing

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I'll also post this in case it helps – this is the build and the leveling plan that I've used so far on my own Claws/Super Reflexes, currently 36 and at 45% defense to all positions. At 29, I believing I was hunting groups of +2 and +3 bosses in Croatoa for my XP.

Now, I DON'T actually recommend following this exactly. This build is more of a proof of concept – that it is possible to hit 45% defense by level 36 using only a single IO, and that the build would be playable. But “playable” doesn't mean the best and/or most fun build. I have no travel power, which can be rough if you haven't picked up the temp travel powers. More importantly, I'm missing a whole lot of good Claws attacks. My build is borderline criminal in that regard. I'll definitely be focusing on attacks now as I level up.

So what I'd probably recommend, if you're going for a respec anyway, is to do something like this build, but to insert other attacks that you want, and a travel power if you want it. 45% is usually delayed until the 40s or never hit at all, and the builds can still be very solid.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 36 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Claws
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- Acc(A), Acc(3), EndRdx(3), Dmg(5), Dmg(5), Dmg(7)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(7), DefBuff(9), EndRdx(9)
Level 2: Strike -- Acc(A), Acc(11), EndRdx(11), EndRdx(13), Dmg(13), Dmg(15)
Level 4: Focused Senses -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(15), DefBuff(17), EndRdx(17)
Level 6: Slash -- Acc(A), Acc(19), EndRdx(19), RechRdx(21), Dmg(21), Dmg(23)
Level 8: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 10: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(23)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff(A)
Level 14: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 16: Dodge -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(25), DefBuff(25)
Level 18: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(27), EndMod(27)
Level 22: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), EndRdx(29)
Level 24: Weave -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(31), DefBuff(31), EndRdx(31)
Level 26: Agile -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(29), DefBuff(33)
Level 28: Maneuvers -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(33), DefBuff(34), EndRdx(34)
Level 30: Lucky -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(33), DefBuff(34)
Level 32: Quickness -- Run(A)
Level 35: Evasion -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(36), DefBuff(36), EndRdx(36)
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit

Although you don't have to get there particularly soon, the magic number for Super Reflexes is 45%. The closer you get to that level of defense, the more awesome you become.

The basic plan on your way there is to pick up all your toggles and passives, so it sounds like so far so good in that regard. Five slotting is overkill because of Enhancement Diversification. I'd put one endurance reducer and three defense in the toggles, and three defense in the passives. I would highly recommend picking up Tough and Weave, and slotting them 1 endurance + 3 resists in Tough, 1 endurance + 3 defense in Weave. Depending on your budget or your patience, you might look into a Steadfast Protection +3% defense IO. If you buy nothing else on the market, I would still buy that. I would also want either Combat Jumping or Hover. I'd probably just single slot those with defense, not wanting to wast extra slots on a low-defense power, at least until I was swimming in slots.

Now, that combination won't get you to 45%. But it should get you high enough that you stop feeling weak. Well, you may still have problems with AoEs until you can pick up Evasion and slot it, but they shouldn't be bad problems. And that's coming soon.

Might be worth a respec, though if you want to go that far (as opposed to just picking up whatever you're missing as you level), you might want to post your build and your goals for some more specific feedback.

Ah, you posted again while I was writing. Yes, they kept Enhancement Diversification. I hated it at the time, but I think it's been good for the game overall. And yes, IOs get hit by Enhancement Diversification just like everything else.

You guessed correctly. Not worth it.

Coincidentally, I did the calculations earlier today since I was curious myself, even though my guess was the same as yours. I took a DPS template build that I'm playing with and plugged into two chains. The first was the traditional Smite -> Midnight Grasp -> Smite -> Siphon Life. It did 217 DPS. The second was Smite -> Shadow Maul -> Smite -> Siphon Life with the proc in Shadow Maul. It only did 186 DPS. Basically, Shadow Maul lasts too long at too low a DPS for the new proc to bring it back up enough to be competitive for single target DPS.

Agreed. In theory, it seems like a self heal is just what Willpower needs. Not so much in practice due to various issues with Aid Self. Not that it's a BAD power to have, but just that often there are other alternatives that might be better.

It's probably just differing meanings of alpha strikes. If you take a huge bunch of hits in a few seconds and survive, I'd say you survived the alpha. If you're at low hit points and the NEXT batch of hits kill you, then I'd say you were killed by the beta strike, which is often cited as one of Willpower's weaknesses. So if we're using MY understanding of the situation, Aid Self lets you survive the beta strike, rather than the alpha strike, assuming you can get it off. Or you might consider that all the alpha strike, which also seems fair.

There's no need for a nerf bat. Willpower is easy to build and play, and is good at most everything. That's not the same thing as overpowered. It's nicely in balance with the other secondaries. I wouldn't be worried.

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It was a simple question. What can wp do to off set extra damage that bosses do, and what I got was how could you have a problem with a boss.

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Yes we said that. But it is a relevant point, in the sense of letting you know that something is wrong, and that this isn't just something that we all go through. For instance, if someone complained about Super Reflexes survivability in the teens, we'd probably have gone, “Oh, yeah, that totally sucks on a Super Reflexes.” But if ALL you heard was “we don't have trouble”, then you missed a lot of other relevant points.

- “you might want to look at your build”
- “Beat [the boss] up first? Everything else around you should be there to fuel RttC.”
- “go after the boss or lieutenants first, leaving minions for Rise to the Challenge”
- “Make sure you're in the middle of the spawn“
- “purples”
- “you may want to adjust your build for a higher level of survivability”

And then when we learned you didn't have Rise to the Challenge, making advice on how best to use it a little premature:

- “you should have RttC... it is the best power of the set and will keep you alive.”
- “at 20 you get a power far superior to stamina. stamina can be pushed off”
- “by level 30 you should have all of the powers in your secondary”
- “recommend going boxing/tough/weave for 32/35/38”
- “Alphas will eventually be no problem because it takes too much to take you out quickly.”
- “QR is bigger than Stamina.”
- “RttC is retardedly awesome”

I believe there's plenty there to resolve your problems. If you didn't see all that, or consider it to be simply min/max advice, then I'm not sure what further to say.

(edit: And I suppose I see the point you might be making - from your perspective, we insulted you by saying we don't have problems with bosses. I'm guessing that's it, anyway. It wasn't my intent to insult you with that, but only to use it to explain that your problem should be solvable. Sorry if it was insulting. Perhaps I need to take my own advice and be more careful with word choices.)