Werner

Regen is very interactive and requires a lot of focus to pull off top tier performance. That makes it my favorite of the secondaries, at least when I'm awake and focused. When I just want to sit back and go on cruise control, other secondaries are better. But I've noticed that I've turned even my Super Reflexes into a click fest, what with Practiced Brawler, Hasten, Conserve Power, Dark Consumption and Soul Drain. I guess its just the play style I enjoy.

Willpower is probably the most cruise control of all. That lets you focus on your main task, doing damage. I find it a little boring, yet I have a Willpower scrapper at 50, a Willpower brute at 50, and another Willpower brute lowbie. Boring, yes, but effective and very easy to play when I just want to turn my brain off and kill things.

I haven't actually played Invulnerability since the recent buffs. When I was leveling my Broad Sword/Invulerability up to 50, I had to take Aid Self to even approach the feats my other scrappers were easily pulling off. That made it pretty clicky sometimes. It hasn't had a big buff, but apparently it was enough that Invulnerability is now very good. Excellent against smashing and lethal, not so great against psionic. Great back up tank.

Umbral is right about */Regen being low maintenance at a low level of play, though. For normal missioning, my Katana/Regen never has to click anything. It's only when things get really difficult that I have to pay close attention. On the other hand, for normal missioning, my Dark Melee/Super Reflexes doesn't even have to toggle up, so I'm not sure which should be considered easier.

[ QUOTE ]
A regen scrapper at level 50 is nervous. Animation lag, system lag, and human reaction time lag can all get you killed.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, nervous. That's a good way to describe it. Things can kill you very very fast unless you react quickly and appropriately, or in many cases anticipate what's about to happen instead of merely reacting to it. Most of my Regen scrapper deaths are from “oops”, not from “I'm all out of tools to keep me alive”. Many of my deaths occur with every click power available, they occur so fast.

[ QUOTE ]
I am more interested in a good end-level build than "e-z xp" upfront.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh, don't get me wrong. Katana/Regen is a great end level build. It can do most anything anyone else can do. It's an extremely fast race car. It's just also a twitchy, oversteering, likely to suddenly vault you over the guard rail and into the crowd race car that takes some experience to drive to the limit (and will still occasionally bite you).

Amusingly, a number of us had Mystic Fortune, but we were in such scrapperlock that we never paused once to use it. Or at least I didn't use mine and didn't see anyone use theirs. I thought about it occasionally, but everyone was always fighting, and I didn't want to interrupt.

No purples or really anything at all valuable here. Didn't check influence.

Weeks are kind of random for me, because of open invitations for friends to come over, working out, occasionally working late, and so on. Weekends tend to work out best for me. Not that I'm critical to the process or anything, and not that this can't be done multiple times. Sounds like Sundays are good for at least a few people.

[ QUOTE ]
I got a build some where...
Lets see if I could find it

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll post mine. It has a tenth of a second pause and is at +300% recharge for that little margin of safety. I'm calculating 227 DPS. Endurance is NOT sustainable, and there's no Aid Self. This isn't an AV soloing build.

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[ QUOTE ]
Well, thanks for all the hard work, it all looks pretty good. I say pretty good, b/c as you know the real test is in the field.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. Numbers ultimately don't matter. Results matter. I'm pretty confident in the general approach of how I'm calculating and the kind of damage output you can achieve. What I'm not confident in is the survivability. I'm kind of winging it on the tanker front due to lack of familiarity and because it wasn't important for a mere DPS comparison. So I highly recommend that you only use my posted builds for ideas, required recharge, attack slotting, that kind of thing. Please don't just use them directly. Please use your own knowledge of tanking to make them more viable.

Actually, I'm doing a similar DPS comparison for scrappers. In that case, I'm confident that NONE of them will solo AVs without inspirations because they've given up far too much survivability for the DPS. That might be the case here as well.

Follow Up -&gt; Focus -&gt; Slash -&gt; Pause. Achilles' Heel in Slash. You'll need at least +281% to get the desired stacking of Follow Up and Achilles' Heel. I recommend something approaching 300% to be certain, since our knowledge of required recharge isn't complete, and there have been a few cases of stacking requiring more recharge than theory would indicate. The pause goes away at +314% recharge, which you likely won't hit without a speed boost.

Combos aren't critical. The best middling recharge DPS chain is Blinding Feint -&gt; Attack Vitals Combo, but you can do better at very high levels of recharge.

You're still not at those levels of recharge, though, or at least not on a continual basis. Power Slice has a cast time of 1.03 seconds, which is an Arcanatime of 1.188 seconds. To chain without gaps, Ablating Strike would need to recharge in 1.188 seconds. It recharges in 1.86 seconds. That's a substantial, DPS killing gap.

Also, even if you didn't have the gap, there's no reason to even USE Power Slice. Sweeping Strike is a better attack, and can be made to recharge fast enough if it doesn't already.

Anyway, my suggestion is to either go all the way (you'll need something approaching 200% global recharge plus more recharge in Ablating Strike), or back off to Blinding Feint -&gt; Attack Vitals. On a Willpower, I don't think going all the way is going to be practical, as it's barely achievable on Super Reflexes with +20% from Quickness. So I guess I'm suggesting that you use the Blinding Feint -&gt; Attack Vitals chain (i.e., Blinding Feint -&gt; Ablating Strike -&gt; Vengeful Slice -&gt; Sweeping Strike). That has a much lower recharge requirement, and Willpower doesn't really benefit from recharge anyway, so that should free up some space in your build.

[ QUOTE ]
Nicely done guys
Wish I could have joined in...

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, would have loved to have had you and Shawn_Sage along. The more the merrier.

[ QUOTE ]
Gnawing at bit to go after Lord Recluse and his towers! I say we do it even with uber repairmen.

[/ QUOTE ]
My understanding is that it's impossible now.

So I'm in.

It's the final fight, right? So if we fail, I've still seen the whole task force, right? And it's on test, so I'm not losing anything. And I have all these nukes that I'm doing nothing with. And these Shivans. And these Amys.

[ QUOTE ]
thx for making me feel like i just wasted a respec!!!!
lol, just kidding. I guess i'm still learning lol

[/ QUOTE ]
Heh, sorry. Let me try to be more helpful than just “here's what's wrong”.

At the sort of recharge you're running, I would run Smite -&gt; Midnight Grasp -&gt; Smite -&gt; Siphon Life. For that, Smite needs to recharge in 2.11 seconds (you can get there by just slotting higher level Touch of Deaths), Midnight Grasp in 4.48 seconds, and Siphon Life in 4.62 seconds. Midnight Grasp will be the hard one, but it's doable.

For a general purpose build, slot Siphon Life as an attack, not as a heal. The heal is just a nice secondary effect, but it really adds up with you spamming Siphon Life like you do in the chain above. Browse through some of the slottings in the link I posted and find the ones with over 90% damage enhancement, and see which looks good to you.

Slot Shadow Maul as a serious attack. It's seriously good, and should be used often. Eradication is probably OK, though the endurance consumption can be pretty high with it, you'd just need to get something closer to level 30.

While you can skip Tough and Weave, I'd really encourage you to use them. However, that's also committing to a larger set of changes, as you'll then need the endurance to run it. My suggestion there is to pick up the Numina and Miracle uniques. Another recharge in Conserve Power would also be helpful. The resistance of Tough really does help in high damage situations, and Weave will relieve a lot of the +defense slotting pressure, even if you are just trading it for a different problem (endurance).

When slotting for bonuses, you can only have five of a specific bonus. This is easily checked by clicking on “View Active Sets”. If you've exceeded the five, you'll see a warning over at the top on the right hand side. This isn't always bad – you might be after other set bonuses that just happened to go with the one that's a “problem”. But its something to at least be aware of.

Really, it's not bad. Endurance use is probably OK, even if it worries me a bit. You have your defense slotted out, including both the toggles and the passives, so your defense debuff resistance should be fine. Hit points are great (with the accolades).

And lest you think otherwise, that wasn't a flippant answer. But there may be a best choice for you, depending on what you want to do with the character. Willpower is a very good choice for first time scrapping, since it's a very friendly secondary with no major weaknesses. Invulnerability is also very good, but has specific strengths (smashing and lethal) and weaknesses (psionic), and will require you to have or gain a reasonable understanding of endurance management. Super Reflexes is probably paired with Martial Arts mostly for thematic reasons, and is late to bloom, but is very solid in the upper levels. Dark Armor seems to very rarely be paired with Martial Arts, and yet would be a good combination because of stun stacking. Basically, you can't go wrong.

I suspect that Martial Arts is generally considered the weakest of the primaries. The secondary effects seem to lack a cohesive theme, and the damage output is just middle of the road. Some people also don't like the all kicks nature of it. But if you don't mind doing nothing but kicks (or adding punches from power pools), the weakest scrapper primary honestly isn't very far behind the strongest scrapper primary. I don't want to scare you away from it. It's totally fine.

Yeah, I went with my main, Katana/Regen. I figured Dark Melee/Super Reflexes would be easier, and thus less fun. Besides, we already had one of those on the team. Too bad my reaction time sucked today. One death came with all my clicks still available as I was reaching for Moment of Glory. Oops!

And I was particularly impressed with Celeste Cat's “tanking”. Kept ending up in the middle of mobs with all the aggro (apparently intentionally) and also kept the healing Nictus busy. I knew Katana/Invulnerability could be good, but damn! Maybe I need to pull my Broad Sword/Invulnerability out of retirement.

[ QUOTE ]
Soo... Your telling me that based on these numbers, an SD/EM could also solo an AV? They have a taunt aura that increases the damage of their secondary's attack so that means more DPS right? And with EM, you have a damage type that isn't as often resisted. Or at least too much.

Hmm, but you would have to fit Medicine in there somehow.

Fire wouldn't be good with Shields because if you have to use GFS in your chain, then you are taking out the mobs that are fueling your damage increase.

I'm just trying to see if there is another secondary that could solo an AV consistently besides DM. And even then, I think very few people have done it with DM.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I suspect that with a good DPS build, a Shield Defense/Energy Melee could solo AVs with no temps, no inspirations. Yes, Shield Defense would pump up the damage. To max it out, though, you'd probably want to surround yourself with minions.

As for the Medicine Pool, I don't have enough experience with tanks or Energy Melee to know for sure. If I'm reading it right, it looks like Energy Melee would eat up half of your regeneration, which doesn't leave much for the AVs. But I suspect that with Fiery Melee, for instance, you might not need the Medicine Pool. Just crank up your hit points and regeneration and you'll probably be OK.

So I guess I'm suggesting that Super Strength, Fiery Melee and Energy Melee are all capable of the DPS required to solo AVs, even without the buff from the Shield Defense primary. I strongly suspect that Dark Melee is a very strong candidate for this as well. Stone Melee shows up at the top of Starsman's charts at 250% recharge, so it might be a strong candidate as well. He also has War Mace up there with the same score as Energy Melee and Fiery Melee. So it seems to me that a lot of tanker combinations should be able to solo AVs with a build focused on the task. Whether anyone wants to actually play a build like that is another question, but if people do, it should be possible.

Another repost from the previous thread:

Total yay. Here's my first-timer impression of the ITF, scrapper style.

Kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill die resurrect kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill. Look, it's Romulus! Die resurrect die hospital die resurrect KILL. What do you mean mission complete? There are people still vertical! Kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill. Stupid map is clear.

Some day I should probably read the story so I have some clue what we just did, but I was just there to bust heads, and there were a lot of heads to be busted.

Some pretty amazing scrappers on this one. I had trouble staying vertical even with no taunt aura. Others did it WITH a taunt aura. Thanks for the team, folx. Y'all were awesome.

Total yay. Here's my first-timer impression of the ITF, scrapper style.

Kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill die resurrect kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill. Look, it's Romulus! Die resurrect die hospital die resurrect KILL. What do you mean mission complete? There are people still vertical! Kill kill kill kill kill kill kill kill. Stupid map is clear.

Some day I should probably read the story so I have some clue what we just did, but I was just there to bust heads, and there were a lot of heads to be busted.

Some pretty amazing scrappers on this one. I had trouble staying vertical even with no taunt aura. Others did it WITH a taunt aura. Thanks for the team, folx. Y'all were awesome.

Getting close to go time. Have 6 on test. Who wants in?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dark Consumption should be slotted for end recovery,

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok I'm sick of people saying this. It doesn't matter what you slot it with as long as you can hit and it recharges fast. If you can hit 3 +foes your going to have a full end bar. I like to slot mine with Obliteration because I like the Obliteration set bounes better. I'm not slotting it so I can do more damage I'm slotting because it can hit recharges fast and it as great set bounes.

[/ QUOTE ]
Agreed. Slotting it for endurance recovery is typically a waste. Possible exception for AV soloing without inspirations, but that's kind of out in left field, even if it seems pretty common around the forums.

Looks like you're not quite at the cap for melee defense. You have more than five 9% accuracy bonuses, so one doesn't count. Still, overall accuracy looks very good. You have Shadow Maul, which is good for a general-purpose build, but you have level 10 enhancements in it, which sucks if you're ever going to actually use the power. Same with Dark Consumption. Siphon Life slotting is poor, with it good neither as an attack nor as a heal. Endurance use vs. recovery looks pretty bad on the surface, but it's hard to know for sure without doing some calculations since you have both Dark Consumption and Conserve Power. What sort of attack chain were you planning on running? You don't have the recharge for Smite -&gt; Midnight Grasp -&gt; Smite -&gt; Siphon Life, and you don't have Shadow Punch to use as a filler in that chain, which is how we would typically handle not having enough recharge. I'm a strong advocate for Tough and Weave, which you've intentionally skipped, and don't seem to have gotten much in return for. Hit points are good if we add in the accolades. Regeneration isn't very good, but I suppose wouldn't need to be if you were using Siphon Life in your attack chain.

Below is my own build for comparison. It doesn't have Shadow Maul because it was designed specifically to solo AVs, so for a more general purpose build you'd want to fit that in. I'm also not saying my build is the best possible, not least because it's an I12.5 build – I12 sets but modified for the I13 Dark Melee changes. So it's a little out of date.

For some other good Siphon Life slotting options, have a look at this thread.

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Bah. Stupid character copy tool. OK. Who all has characters on Test already? Or are most of us on Virtue? I'd about decided to use Werner anyway – more challenging, but more interesting – so either Virtue or Test are fine with me. Frankly, Virtue's my preference since I've never run it and it'd be nice to get actual credit for it. Victory is fine with me too, but I don't think very many people are over there.

(Edit: If we do switch to Virtue, someone should sit on test and redirect people who haven't checked the forum.)

[ QUOTE ]
I'd argue that Health is something that I absolutely want on my /Regen's more than any other secondary (maybe Willpower). So I don't know if I'd agree that it's not as beneficial to Regen as any other secondary. I personally love it stacking with my other powers so I can get 60+ hp/sec.

[/ QUOTE ]
I did exactly the same thing. But Health's contribution to survivability is based entirely on the level of damage mitigation in the build (i.e., damage resistance and defense). Regeneration has the lowest damage mitigation of all the secondaries. Health is therefore least useful on a Regen.

To give an example that may explain it better, let's take a Regen with no resistance and no defense, and compare it to, say, a Willpower with 50% resistance and 25% defense, and a Super Reflexes with 45% defense. For simplicity, let's say everyone has 2000 hit points. Health at 100% enhancement will then heal about 7 DPS.

On the Regen, that means Health lets you survive an extra 7 DPS of incoming damage.

But the Willpower is avoiding half the hits that would have hit the regen, and also only taking half damage from the hits that can get through. So Health on Willpower lets you survive an extra 28 DPS of incoming damage. Health is four times as effective on the Willpower.

The Super Reflexes, meanwhile, is only getting hit by 10% of the attacks that would have hit the Regen. So Health on Super Reflexes lets you survive an extra 70 DPS of incoming damage. Health is ten times as effective on the Super Reflexes.

This is all overly simplistic, of course, but hopefully you get the idea.

OK, I finished up Fiery Melee using Incinerate -&gt; Greater Fire Sword -&gt; Fire Sword. I also found an error in my Energy Melee calculation. Here's the final tally.

135 DPS Invulnerability/Super Strength
127 DPS Invulnerability/Energy Melee
125 DPS Invulnerability/Fiery Melee

As with Energy Melee, the Fiery Melee build has sustainable endurance use for those long AV fights. All of these are probably overstated by a few DPS because of the incorrect perma Hasten assumption and the likely use of Dull Pain. All of these probably have a margin of error of at least a few percent. Of these, I'd probably personally choose the lowest on the list – no rage crash, no hurting yourself with Energy Transfer, no complicated timing, just go go go. It'll take forever of course, but it will be doable. Also, while I haven't looked at AV resistance recently, I suspect that fewer AVs resist Fire than Smashing.

Spreadsheet

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Arctic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), HO:Ribo(3), HO:Ribo(13)
Level 1: Scorch -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Heal(21), Dct'dW-Rchg(21)
Level 4: Fire Sword -- Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg(5), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Mako-Dam%(7), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 8: Unyielding -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Aegis-ResDam(11), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(11), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 10: Boxing -- Amaze-Stun(A), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(15), Amaze-Stun/Rchg(23), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(23), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(25)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(13), Ksmt-ToHit+(34), Empty(46)
Level 14: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(15), Numna-Heal/Rchg(17), Mrcl-Rcvry+(17), Mrcl-Heal(19), RgnTis-Regen+(19)
Level 16: Resist Physical Damage -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34), RedFtn-Def(37), RedFtn-EndRdx(40), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(48), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(48)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(27), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(31), P'Shift-End%(31), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 22: Resist Energies -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- HO:Ribo(A), HO:Ribo(25)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(27), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 28: Build Up -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(29), HO:Membr(29)
Level 30: Taunt -- Mocking-Acc/Rchg(A), Mocking-Taunt(31), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(34), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(36), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(36), Mocking-Rchg(46)
Level 32: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 35: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(36), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def(48), RedFtn-EndRdx(50)
Level 38: Greater Fire Sword -- Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(39), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Hectmb-Dam%(40), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 41: Incinerate -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Mako-Dam%(42), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Chilblain -- Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(45), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Apoc-Dam%(46)
Level 47: Resist Elements -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 49: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet



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[ QUOTE ]
(Don't use SM as a single target attack either, tho'.)

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, feel free to do so. It's an AoE that's even more endurance efficient than your single target attacks. It's like cheating it's so good.

[ QUOTE ]
If we are on suggestions, how about...

[/ QUOTE ]
Per Umbral playing benevolent dictator since nobody has been voting, we're now on this:

[ QUOTE ]
MA/WP build with the following requirements:

A AV soloing sustainable attack chain that uses Eagle's Claw.
Softcapped SLEN Defenses
Enough END to sustain attack chain/toggles
Unlimited Budget and any IO sets OK.
Near cap (but doesn't have to be capped) HP.
Flight

Nihilii's build should work as an excellent jumping off point, but let's see if we can actually meet all of those requirements.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Check it out and let me know if I'm correct or if I have been missing out on some awesomeness all this time

[/ QUOTE ]
As Umbral indicates, you've been missing out on some awesomeness all this time. Mind you, I haven't confirmed whether or not this has been “fixed” in I15, but the “bug” has been around forever, so I suspect it will be around forever. You're just not allowed to blame the devs or me if it suddenly stops working.

Don't skip Shadow Maul and don't be afraid to use it against a single target. It's more endurance efficient than even your single-target attacks, PLUS it's an AoE. Shadow Maul is like cheating. Thing is, you're also going to want Shadow Punch and Smite. Smite does some high end DPS, and Shadow Punch is decent while recharging quickly enough to help fill out your attack chain.

Yes, its OK to delay your defense to focus on your offense. That's a typical approach on scrappers since just the low level powers with TOs or DOs just don't do all that much to keep you alive. You're usually better off just finishing the fight as fast as you can with a good offense.

I think I took Stamina at 20. I wanted Hurdle for movement and Health to recover more quickly between fights without needing to take a knee. Stamina was just one more power pick, so it was an easy decision to make. That said, Dark Consumption at 18 can actually do a better and earlier job of relieving your endurance woes, and Siphon Life is a good combat heal, so delaying Fitness is reasonable if you want.

On the other hand, you can delay the travel power. With the availability of the temp travel powers in the low level safeguard missions (talk to the detective then run radio missions in King's Row and then Steel Canyon), these days, I typically take my travel power in the 30s or whenever the power choices start to loosen up.