Venture

The only point of contradiction is the question of whether the suit is creating the anti-matter or if it's being generated by Ray himself.

In the book it's being generated by the suit. Null is using basically the same suit and is also firing antimatter blasts. It would have (or should have, at least) rated a mention if Null was trying to ape Keyes' innate abilities.

Given Positron's comments here, the book is wrong. That's not a big surprise since the entire premise of the book doesn't jive with the history on the web site.

The hero is too tough? Well doh! Drop your rep level. I"m really tired of people who run with increased rep and then complain that their missions are "too hard".

The problem is if I set the difficulty low enough to keep the EB from instantly annhilating me (assuming that's even possible -- making that Statesman I fought an even con EB probably wouldn't have changed much), the rest of the mission becomes a snoozefest.

If Statesman is supposed to be so powerful no one can stand against him, he's got no business showing up in my missions. This is a game, victory is supposed to be at least a possibility.

I've done three Mayhems with my Thugs/Poison MM Mr. Pagliacci (one in AP, two in KR, all on Malicious), and one with my 40 Bots/Traps Vector Alpha (in FF on Ruthless).

Mr. Pagliacci only failed one of the KR missions, and that because I spent too much time breaking down doors in the police station looking for a captured villain who wasn't there. Other than that, no real issues for him aside from the oddities others have reported (such as there being no discernable rhyme or reason to time awards).

Vector Alpha, on the other hand.... Things started out well. I got a map full of Psi Cops and the occasional Police Drone, which was pretty laughable for a bunch of psi-resistant robots. I heard a Greater Devoured say the cops had arrested someone, so I took him out and hit the police station to liberated (IIRC) Silent Blade, who seemed to be a Kat/SR Scrapper (not Stalker) with ADHD. I did not get a time award for breaking her out; I don't know if that's because you're not supposed to or because I did something wrong or because of a bug. I took down another Greater Devoured and got a key to another building, but time was getting short and I decided to go for the bank first. I blew through the guards and the Freedom Corps Officer, opened the vault and got the loot.

Then Statesman showed up.

In two attacks in about as many seconds he destroyed an entire group of robots at full health. The third attack defeated me. I then timed out trying to get out of jail, and got booted to login which is what happens about 60% of the time when I try to enter Grandville.

Seeing as how I soloed Aurora Borealis as an AV with this guy several levels ago, I have to say this was more than a little excessive for a +1 EB. I strongly suspect the signature characters are all statted as AVs, and the new AV improvements are being carried down to the EB versions. I certainly hope that the designers don't intend for signature characters to signify unavoidable defeat. Nor do I believe bringing more players would have helped -- his AEs would have just killed everyone except maybe the Brutes, who would live a few seconds longer.

He also didn't say "This won't change, and here's why." He just said "Huh. You know, nobody complains about that in WoW. Isn't that interesting?"

Codswallop. People do complain about it in WoW. You just can't hear them over a million b.net freaks who only care about how fast they can kill another PC that never had a chance in the first place.

Nit: the Rikti war ended in November 2002, so unless the game is taking place in 2004 (which doesn't seem to be the case), it's been almost four years since it ended.

The answer to that question is exactly my point: We. Don't. Know.

Maybe nothing. Maybe pure awsomeness. Maybe something in between.

I'm real sorry, but if you think there's anything meaningful we haven't seen yet, you're in denial.

Oh geez, Posi and them already said they will look into it. The reason they couldnt do it differently right away was because of the fact they never put tech into CoH/CoV that allows you to completely breakoff a contact and lose any souviners/story arc progress.

No, it's not that they couldn't do it differently. They just didn't do it differently. They chose to develop villain APPs in a manner that required a burned-bridge implementation. They were so convinced that everyone would love the Patron Powers so much that we wouldn't mind that you can't change factions or that you have to kneel to Arachnos in the first place to have APPs or that the powers themselves are lacklustre and have little to no synergies with existing villain sets. I'll bet it didn't even occur to them that anyone might have an objection.

"Do you know what your sin is, doctor? It's pride." -- The Operative, Serenity

In all fairness, if Arachnos as a whole really wanted to actively hunt any given villain, it'd be a short fight. The Rogue Isles are theirs, after all, and most villains aren't really welcome anywhere else.

Neither is Arachnos. Leaving the Rogue Islands would completely eliminate their ability to send large forces after you, though you might have to worry about someone else instead. Still, history is full of examples of groups much larger and more powerful than Arachnos (say, the US government) chasing people who weren't anywhere near supervillain level unsuccessfully.

Yes, by the time you hit level 40, you've wasted thousands of spiders, but not all at once.

You won't have to, unless you're stupid enough to stand in an empty football field and wait for them.

Assuming that Arachnos decides to go after the Destined Ones as a whole, rather than one or two at a time,

Wouldn't make a difference either way.

and that any of those groups would be willing to put the Destined Ones up in the long term (by this point, Nemesis and Malta are the only ones the Destined Ones haven't directly struck at in numbers similar to Arachnos).

Not a big assumption.

If Arachnos got it into their heads to wipe out specific PCs, they'd probably succeed.

Right now, there's a guy named Osama bin Laden who has rather a few people on his trail, and they don't seem to be doing so well. He doesn't even have superpowers.

Arachnos can't keep its own house in order. They're not going to suddenly morph into some monolith of efficiency at the drop of a hat. Frankly I doubt they could catch the Marx Brothers, never mind anyone with real resources.

Scrappers out damage blasters in melee.

...over time. On the alpha strike, which is much more important in PvP, I'm not so sure.

Blaster damage is less resisted in general than Scrapper damage, and Blasters have a second damage buff to call on (Aim, which also helps them trivialize Defense-based sets).

Mako is a Coralax though.... (or a Hybrid, or whatever) they seem pretty magic-ish (remember the Calystix arc?)

Mako is a mutant, not a Coralax.

Paint with a wide brush much?

When it fits, sure.

Controllers get five APPs that have similarities but are not carbon copies of each other. The APPs mirror the Controller primaries: Stone for Earth, Fire for Fire, Ice for Ice, Primal for Gravity, Psionic for Mind and Illusion.

Dominators get four PPPs that are carbon copies of each other. Their only choice is which special effect they want. The special effects are Darkness, Lightning, Death Ray Gadget and, um, Sharks, NONE of which synergize with the Dominator primaries. My Dominator is Plants/Thorn; there is nothing in the PPP's that matches.

Additionally, the Patrons themselves are two Magic, one Tech and one Mutant. No Science or Naturals.

If you go over the other archtypes you'll get much the same results. There are a few happy coincidences where some ATs can pick a complementary theme.

Hero APPs were designed so that players could pick powers that fit their characters, either in terms of effect or theme (arguable, the devs ran out of gas when they got to Scrappers). Patron Powers are designed to force players to adapt their characters to fit the narrative. Which of these approaches sounds better?

Thus my original comment: the devs combined a one-size-fits-none approach with thematic straightjacketing.

I am completely dissappointed by all those powers.

Likewise.

They've combined a one-size-fits-none approach with thematic straightjacketing.

I'm particularly disappointed with the Mastermind powers. Free clue, devs: the AT with the lowest hit points in the game does not need AE powers.

Firstly, Arachnos would destroy you, as they busted you out and suddenly you decide to fly solo.

First off, they busted our characters out of jail, and then said "you're on your own". Their own people attack our characters on the streets. They can't suddenly turn around and say our characters owe Arachnos anything.

Secondly, there aren't enough hours in the day for Arachnos to even begin hunting down everyone they have a grudge against.

That problem is exacerbated when you realise that if they sent troops after any of our characters, they would lose. As EvilGeko pointed out rather a good bit upthread, our characters have killed thousands of Arachnos personell by level 40. Any troops they sent would come back in boxes. They would have to send real talent, something they're obviously short on or they wouldn't be breaking supers out of jails.

Finally, what would happen if Arachnos did go after the Destined Ones with enough force to pose a real threat? Simple, the Destined Ones would turn to the enemies of Arachnos for protection. Nemesis. The Council. Malta. Even Longbow. All of whom would jump at a chance to get valuable intelligence on Arachnos technology, tactics, bases, troop strengths.... (Though I pity anyone who chose Malta; better to die on your feet than live on your knees.)

Personally, my main isn't a super evil character. He feels he is between a rock and a hard place, where he has to side with Arachnos just to survive.

The only reason you have to side with Arachnos is because they game is being written to not give you a real choice.

Maybe if you weren't feeling so powerless and confined in real life then such in-game consequences wouldn't weigh so heavily on you? Well, that's my take on things anyway.

I think someone needs a nap.

*plonk*

Hmm. The Lady in the Lake is very important to the Excaliber and Arthurian mythos, so it's pretty valid, IMO.

Even if you knew the Lady of the Lake existed, if you saw King Arthur with Excalibur how would you know she gave him the sword?

The ID card only says "Paragon City Registered Hero". It says nothing at all about Freedom Corps association.

You're Joe Scrub Hero/Villain. You're in a whole freaking CITY of heroes and villains. You're just not that special.

That's the problem.

[ QUOTE ]

2) Don't let the PCs play "second fiddle" to NPCs:

Second only to having their characters taken prisoner, players hate having their characters play "second fiddle" to NPCs -- or even worse, having NPCs rescue them when they're in trouble. The PCs are the focus of the story and the campaign; they shouldn't be directly overshadowed by NPCs. This is not to say the PCs have to be the most powerful characters in the world. You can have NPCs more powerful than the PCs, even much more powerful. Such NPCs can act as sources of information for the PCs, or as inspiration to show them what they're capable of becoming. Just don't rub the PCs' noses in their inferiority, or have the NPCs outdo them at every turn. Keep the use of NPCs who are more powerful than the PCs to a minimum.


[/ QUOTE ]

-- Champions, 5th Edition, #2 on the list of ways to ruin your campaign

It's certainly true that the demands of an MMO differ from those of a tabletop RPG campaign. It's a lot harder to make thousands of players the center of the story than just the six guys across the table.

And yet, CoH did a fair job of that, at least up until now. The signature characters were kept out of the spotlight. Their main function has been to delegate tasks to the PCs. You actually get to save Statesman at one point. Your Contacts are all people who need your help. No individual player is the center of the story, but the players in the aggregate sense are -- they are the new generation of heroes society is depending upon in the wake of the Rikti War.

CoV is a different story. Villain Contacts are employers -- a completely different dynamic. The newspaper offers nothing but petty thefts and turf wars against other villain groups. (Mayhem Missions may be a step in the right direction here.) You only get to "save" Ghost Widow from an inconvenience. Patron Powers and the content associated with them are going to have the signature villains cast a very long shadow over the PCs. Villain PCs are much more subordinate to the narrative than hero PCs already, and can expect to be more so in I7.

Things are not really moving in the right direction here. The monthly comic was changed from centering on characters the players could identify with (poorly written though they were) to the signature heroes. Sidekicks of the signature characters were accorded AV status, only rescinded after an outcry. The new content appears to be largely geared towards impressing upon the players that their characters are bit players. If this is the shape of things to come, the players have every right to be concerned, and they should start expressing it now.

I believe this also caused problems in CoV with an unlockable contact.

Which was fixed.

Well, except it's only *some* of the players that think that.

And that makes it right to force Freedom Phalanx association down all of their throats?

And CoV already has consequences for choice and failures.

Not in any meanginful sense.

If I was one of the patrons and I just heard her #2 flunky was wanting to defect I'd accept that gleefully, kill/inconvience her and *then* kill you for surity.

I mean, you already betrayed one patron, right? What's to stop you from doing it again?

Ever play Diplomacy?

You aren't looking at it from the fact that this is the result of completing your Patron story arc. That means they are giving you a badge/souvenir for completing it.

Which is utterly meaningless.

Badges can't be *undone* with the current technology. They are permanent part of your history, what you have done.

So? I have a badge that says I signed on with Ghost Widow. Then I betray her and join Sirocco. Now I have two badges. Collect the whole set.

Souvenirs are even less meaningful, since no one but the owner can see them.

Also, it's false that badges can't be undone. If you cash in your CoH earned respec, your badge changes. If the Patron badges aren't implemented the same way -- the Patron badge changing to reflect your current allegiance -- that's because the devs chose not to do so.

And that's why the patron powers are permanent, because they are tied to that history.

That is simply no excuse.

Actually, if they added "patron" arcs and four-five patrons on the hero side, I'd really be tempted to pick one, as that means my character was basically a serious side-kick to one of the FP.

Considering that the FP have been portrayed as a bunch of incompetent jerks, I can't see why anyone would want their character to be a second fiddle to one. I'm not happy about having a "Freedom Phalanx Reserve Member" accolade -- my main wants nothing to do with those people, he thinks they're a bunch of dangerous would-be dictators with delusions of godhood. He only did the "Hero's Hero" arc because the Praetorians are even more dangerous.

Your entire argument is predicated on the notion that it is "cool" for player choices to have permanent consequences. From a pragmatic (as opposed to aesthetic) perspective, that argument is without merit. Future changes to the game, even changes not directly related to the choice at hand, can invalidate player choices, thus those choices should be provisional insofar as it is practical to do so. Since this entire system has been implemented from scratch, there is no excuse for Patron choices to be permanent. If the developers have painted themselves into a corner with a short-sighted implementation, they have no one to blame but themselves when the players tell them how much the system stinks.

The patron is set because of a story-arc where you choose one patron above all the other. The fact that you can't unpick a patron is because it's now part of your *history*.

You keep harping on this like it's some kind of conclusive proof. It's not. It's not even relevant.

People betray patrons and switch factions all the time in the real world. Shifting alliances are a permanent feature of any political situation. It is even possible for (e.g.) Fred to betray Barney to Wilma, then betray Wilma to Barney and end up working for Barney again. History is rife with the stories of double and triple agents. There have even been people who managed to screw everyone in the domain of discourse and gotten away with it, or even ended up in charge. Arachnos would not only be no different, it has actually been shown to be a breeding ground for cutthroat politics.

Locking players into their initial choice of patron is not logically necessary. It is a fiat decision, and it is a bad one.

I'm 99% postive that the reason this isn't respecable is that it ties into your badge/souvenir rewards for the Patron Story Arc.

Yes. We got the concept.

The point is that this is a stupid way to do it.

It's not that it won't work. It's that it can't work.

Even if the Patron Powers are the most brilliant example of balance and design ever seen in the history of muds/MMOs, even if like Caesar they are as constant as the northern star, carved in stone never to be changed, the rest of the game will change around them. Changes to main power sets and game systems will invalidate old choices. It will happen.

Changes in content are also an issue. Someone joked about the Center, Nemesis and Lilitu becoming Patrons....what if that came to pass? What option would there be for those whose characters were better RPed as being aligned with the new factions? Delete and relevel? Are the developers prepared to commit to the idea that the Arachnos goons are the only Patrons that will ever be available? That doesn't sound like such a good idea.

The only way out is if, as some have hypothesized, all Patron Power sets contain the exact same powers with different special effects. In which case, the whole hullaballoo is overproduced codswallop. That doesn't help in the case of evolving content, either.

As long as the game is evolving -- and if it isn't, it's dead -- locking players into irrevocable choices should be a non-starter. This idea shouldn't have gotten onto the drawing board, never mind off.

You're complaining about being locked into something that you don't even know what it is. Isn't that a little premature?

Honestly? Not really.

What they are planning for Patron Powers is a baaaaaaad idea.

That's kind of like a wolf complaining that eight well-armed sheep shot him on sight.

Sporting events are rigged all the time from college basketball, to boxing, to football to anything else that's bet on in Vegas.

The fact that someone cheated does not change the fact that the events in question were originally set up to be fair, insofar as mortal man can provide.

Rather, cheating reinforces the initial fairness: the cheater sought an unfair advantage because the contest was not weighted in his favor.

In any case, when it's discovered a sporting event was rigged, those responsible aren't rewarded for their ingenuity. They usually get to see the inside of a jail cell.

Look at every war in the history of this world... How many were "fair"?

Look at every sporting event in the history of this world. How many were "fair"?

That's right, damn near all of them.

Now, which does a GAME resemble most, a sporting event or a war?

You don't get through this world with honor, you do what you have to to survive.

This viewpoint is what's wrong with society.

Yes, this is just a game, but it's a valid analogy because you know what? This game that we're playing involves characters(people) and battlegrounds where they have confrontations(wars).

It is an invalid analogy because it is still a game, and fairness is an essential part of the definition of a game. PvP in muds is a waste of time because, as Buffy opened this with, PvP is not fair, nor can it made to be fair (because even if all classes and abilities were perfectly balanced, the players would still unbalance the game by ganging up on smaller forces).

Oh yes, also, please stop going into PvP by yourself and coming here to rip your hair out.

I went into PvP by myself, with my AR/Dev Blaster (held to be one of the weakest combinations in the game). I did just fine, thanks. I batted way over .500 and better than half my defeats came from being droned. I could have done even better if I'd been SS jousting with EM powers like all the no-skill monkeys, but I don't need an FOTM build to win.

Never make the mistake of assuming that people who don't want PvP in the game are incapable of it. The odds are that I've been gaming since before you were born. (If you're under 32, you lose.) I want PvP in muds driven from the face of the earth because it's a wasted effort on the part of the players and developers. All the time CoX's devs spent in the Sisyphian task of trying to balance PvP could have been spent bringing us more PvE content, or on new power sets, or getting Coralax or Incarnates into the game. Instead it was squandered on fanservice for the emotionally immature.

I think it was best put by the devs of another game that I will not mention:

"The fantasy literature and mythology that inspired fantasy based RPGs contains conflict, combat and warfare and its part of what made these worlds so dramatic, the characters so heroic, and the endings so rewarding."

What part of that does not speak truth?

None of it. It's just not relevant.

You've all been watered down with these PvE oriented games to the point that there are rarily anymore ruthless, cut-throat people with BALLS.

That's because all the real ruthless cutthroats are out in the business world, screwing friend and foe alike for a buck. They don't have time for games.

I'm sure that all the majority of these posts are doing is reinforcing prejudice thoughts of PvP and scaring newcomers away.

I'm sure your posts are doing exactly that: presenting the entirely accurate image of PvPers as people who care nothing about fair play or sportsmanship and care only about winning by any means necessary. Who wants to game with people like that?