Unthing

Okay, I think I'm going to leave out Acid Arrow until the 40s.

So assuming I'm also going to drop Oil Slick arrow, what order should I take them in?

Poison gas Arrow only seems to need 2 slots ( according to the Hero Builder ).
Hasten needs 3.
Total Domination and Mass Confusion need 6.
Terrify I could make do with 4.
Glue Arrow and Disruption arrow probably need 3 each, but are probably usable with only 2.

So how about this for the 20s-30s? It is the Controlling option,

22) --> Hasten==> Rechg(22) Rechg(23) Rechg(23)
24) --> Total Domination==> Acc(24) Acc(25) Hold(25) Hold(29) Rechg(31) Rechg(31)
26) --> Terrify==> Acc(26) Fear(27) Fear(27) Fear(31) Rechg(37) Rechg(37)
28) --> Poison Gas Arrow==> Rechg(28) Rechg(29) Rechg(40)
30) --> Glue Arrow==> Rechg(30) Rechg(34) Rechg(36)
32) --> Mass Confusion==> Acc(32) Acc(33) Rechg(33) Rechg(33) ConfDur(34) ConfDur(34)
35) --> Disruption Arrow==> Rechg(35) Rechg(36) Rechg(36)
38) --> EM Pulse Arrow==> Hold(38) Hold(39) Hold(39) Rechg(39) Rechg(40) Rechg(40) *

Or the more debuffery one..

22) --> Hasten==> Rechg(22) Rechg(23) Rechg(23)
24) --> Poison Gas Arrow==> Rechg(24) Rechg(25) Rechg(40)
26) --> Terrify==> Acc(26) Fear(27) Fear(27) Fear(29) Rechg(34) Rechg(37)
28) --> Disruption Arrow==> Rechg(28) Rechg(29) Rechg(31)
30) --> Glue Arrow==> Rechg(30) Rechg(31) Rechg(31)
32) --> Mass Confusion==> Acc(32) Acc(33) Rechg(33) Rechg(33) ConfDur(34) ConfDur(34)
35) --> Total Domination==> Acc(35) Acc(36) Hold(36) Hold(36) Rechg(37) Rechg(37)
38) --> EM Pulse Arrow==> Hold(38) Hold(39) Hold(39) Rechg(39) Rechg(40) Rechg(40)*

* If this is a disorient, swap holds for disorients.


Note that depending on how things pan out I may end up dropping Ice Arrow in a respec, currently it is more than handy but with Hasten and SOs it may not be worthwhile. However for the levelling up build I'll do something like the 2 above.

This build is feeling very tight...

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The more I look at it, the more I am thinking Hasten is a no brainer for my controller.

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0nce you have hasten you could most likely barely have a use for your secondaries (i know i dont) until you face AV's.

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Really? Oh, because I barely use them now... I'm only level 15.

Acid Arrow is looking droppable, whilst it is the rest of the -res it is a bit single target so it probably isn't necessary until the AV run in the 40s.

The other one that is looking least appealing is Total Domination. I feel confuse and holds are about equal and if the way I mez mobs at the moment is anything to go by I'd say that an AoE hold of that frequency is relatively droppable. especailly as by level 30 I should be able to Fear most minions anyway.

Trick Arrow, as one of those rare sets, seems to suffer from a severe lack of information.

A *** ( where S = sleep ) sounds useful though especially as Posion Arrow was always on my definite list. I'm definitely getting Terrify as it is perma fear. Disruption Arrow is also a must, as -res improves -damage and is great for wiping spawns out faster.

So all in all I have the choice of 5 of these before 40:-

Acid Arrow, tiny AoE DoT and -res. Permable. Effectively a single target effect.
Glue Arrow, large AoE slow and -recharge. Permable.
Mass Confusion, large AoE confusion available 1/(2-3) of the time
Oil Slick Arrow, large AoE knockdown available 1/2 the time
EMP Arrow, large AoE hold available 1/3 of the time
Total Domination, large AoE hold available 1/(4-5) of the time.
Hasten, Improve the recharge of all of the above + my single target holds and confuses.

The more I look at it, the more I am thinking Hasten is a no brainer for my controller.

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I'm anxious to get this power and I'm close to level 30... is there any secondary power from the sonic attacks pool you would suggest to use together with this?

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The buff lasts long enough (and can be made to stack ) that you can run through your entire attack chain a few times.

As Kin/Son, Once you hit 38 try Siren's Song to put them all to sleep, then run into the middle and hit Fulcrum Shift. This will not wake them. Then use Amplify, and hit Dreadful Wail. The combination of -res from Song, +Dam from FS, and extreeeeme damage from Wail should put everything under, and give you some HUGE orange numbers.

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Siren's Song doesn't do -res. The Sonic Blast's only -res powers are Shriek, Scream, Howl, Shout and Screech. The Hero Builder is wrong. However it is still a valid tactic.

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Poison Gas is perma, but how good is the hold component of it? what magnitude / proportion of the enemy does it affect.

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It has a 33% (I think) chance to mag 2 sleep an enemy. It's not a hold.

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33% chance, gotcha, that seems pretty good for a power which is basically a debuff. Am I right in thinking it does DoT as well, which would make sleep somewhat pointless.

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Well Flash Arrow is now auto-hit, so unless u PvP u wont need that Acc in it, either slot ToHit debuff (IIRC its 8% unslotted) or recred cos it now stacks with itself.

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I have slotted it with tohit buff, I just entered in the planner wrong. If it stack with itself it is a better power than I thought.

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Mind/TA is a strange one, cos usually id definately suggest Flash, Acid, Poison Gas and Glue. However, do u plan on using Confuse and Mass confuse a lot? Using Poison Gas would redice the effectiveness of ur new "pet" as would Flash. Acid and Disruption wud obv b nice cos he could cause more dmg.

So if you'r using Confuse as a pseudo pet then you'll have different power choices than if ur just using it as a pseudo control.

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I'm generally using it as another control, surely the slotting of Confuse is the same however I use it so long as I use it a lot. I don't care about my 2-3 pets being effective just that they don't hurt my friends.

One concern I have is the long recharge times of some of the useful powers. The debuffs are all permable and therefore always useful, however some of the mezzes aren't.

Mass Confuse I wouldn't be able to use a lot, it is 30sec duration with a 4 minute recharge, with max enhancing I could use it about half the time.

Total Domination has half that duration, so about a quarter of the time.

Telekinesis is every minute or so, not sure if it is timed. This is an ace up my sleeve and I don't intend to need it too much, however when appropriate it really does save the day.

Poison Gas is perma, but how good is the hold component of it? what magnitude / proportion of the enemy does it affect.

I'm trying out a controller and I thought I go for Mind/TA.

He is level 14 or 15 ( can't remember ) and he build is approximately this.

My original plan was to take TA for Ice Arrow, so I have 2 single target holds. I'm pretty certain of the build to 21 but after that it gets tricky.

Slotting is approximate and is correct for level 14 but is not exactly the correct order.

01 : Entangling Arrow acc(01)
01 : Levitate acc(01) dam(5) dam(5) dam(7)
02 : Dominate acc(02) hlddur(3) hlddur(3) recred(11) recred(13) recred(13)
04 : Flash Arrow acc(04)
06 : Confuse acc(06) cnfdur(7) cnfdur(9) cnfdur(9) recred(11) recred(17)
08 : Air Superiority acc(08)
10 : Ice Arrow acc(10) hlddur(19)
12 : Telekinesis endred(12) endred(17) endred(19)
14 : Fly fltspd(14) fltspd(15) fltspd(15)
16 : Swift Empty(16)
18 : Health Empty(18)
20 : Stamina endrec(20) endrec(21)
22 : Poison Gas Arrow Empty(22)

Currently things are going fine. For soloing I use holds and levitate/AS for containment damage with confuses to avoid being hurt. For teams I use confuses and holds mainly and use levitate/AS to take an enemy out until something more controllery is recharged.

Should I get hasten? I seem to have lots of recharge especially when I start getting more TA powers later, so Hasten would help lots.

Any advice on future powers would be welcome, I was originally going for Acid Arrow, Glue Arrow, Terrify, Disruption Arrow, Mass Confusion, Oil Slick Arrow and then EMP Arrow. However that misses out Total Domination and Hasten.

Confuse is a very good power.

With my level 14 Mind/TA controller I have got it 5 slotted.

With 1 ACC, 2 Recharge and 2 Confuse durations I can keep 3 even level enemies confused.

My idea was to specialize in single target control effects [ which is working fine at low level ] and so I wasn't planning on getting Total Domination. Maybe I need my own thread rather than hijacking yours.

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I have an additional question, to which I haven't found a clear answer anywhere yet:

Does TI and Unyielding stack?

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Yes.

The 3.75% S/L of Unyielding will stack with the 5ish% S/L resistance of RPD and the 22.5% S/L resistance of TI.

With 3 Single Origin enhancements in all it means you will take 50% damage to Slash/Lethal. However Temp Invulnerability will have the most effect of the 3 powers.

Looks like it has a 11 or 12 target cap then, depending on whether misses count.

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I can confirm its at least 11, so it breaks the 10 cap. Yesterday helped a guy in Steel to wack 20 trolls, saw a nice group and slapped Footstomp. Instant 9 to go and i saw at least 1 miss popping up (i hate the 5% base miss...)

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Does that mean you got 11 trolls and missed 1 or that you hit 9 and missed 1? How many trolls were there in total? Was he attacking too?

I remember someone saying once that the to hit caps didn't count misses. I don't know if it is true or not.

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I don't think that you will need 3 Heal Enhancememnts in health. It won't save your life, and it won't and it won't reduce your downtime enough to be really noticeable.

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I disagree, 3 slotted health will save your life. You are better of putting slots in health than combat jumping, weave, Resist Elements and Resist Energies from a survivability point of view.

This is a very defensive build. The more defensive the build the more use health is. Health allows you to ride out the gaps in between Dull Pain hits. However it is only really of use to the self sufficient tank, if you are in a team with reliable healers Health is pretty pointless. I've been on enough all blaster teams to value it though.

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IIRC, aoe has 16 cap, not 10.

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There are a few tiers of power. Novas have 16 target caps, taunts and melee cones have 5. Most AoEs, including taunt auras have 10 I think. I guess we need confirmation from others.

I'm wondering why you are bothering with having /SS as a secondary if you are only taking the first power and taunt. At least take Foot Stomp for tanking Psi enemies and grabbing aggro. It will aid your tanking and provide control in more circumstances than the AoE sleep ( Salt Crystals ) due to it's awesome knockdown.

Also, a note about AoEs. Most AoEs are 10 target maximum, this means from a PbAoE you are going to be hitting ( and therefore aggroing/controlling ) the same 10 targets as invincibility will.

You really need to slot Dull Pain up far earlier. It should be six slotted by the time you get SOs at level 22, and getting it six slotted by level 12 is a really good idea.

Similarly slot invincibilty ASAP too, you should have it 3 slotted at level 19.

Tough Hide makes more difference than the passives. Get it at level 26. The Resist passives are so rubbish they are purely optional. If you want a place to put Tough / Weave, these are the replacements for it.

If you are going to keep Accs in your attacks, Rage slotted for to hit buffs is pointless.

Thats completely rubbish!!!!

What is the point of the power then? Smoke grenade from the Devices set is better than that.

EDIT: Hero Builder says -20% Acc so where did you get the 5% number from, also where did they get the 20% from.

I'll join tonight if you want me. Level 40 Tanker. I've done it already but it is really fun.

We need at least one -regen as we have to fight 2 giant monsters and a few giant AVs ( 3 IIRC ).

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It has been changed, but it seems not more then half a second change (short delay when executing, animation is the same). Though its more to fix some annoying delay, i havent really experienced the healing flames became more in line with the EE/DP/HF of the other tankers (the 40% booster).

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IIRC the duration of the res from Healing Flames is 60 seconds and the base duration is 60 seconds, so I imagine they would never give a 40% Hitpoint Booster as it can be easily double stacked. The most you could expect would be a 20% bosster, although I expect even that would be over powered as with hasten you can triple stack, so any hitpoint boost needs to be less than 20%, probably the same 17% as the Heal is.

Although it that would mean that Fire Tanks will be the only tank to have perma boosted hitpoints...

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With DA you don't take a lot of damage from CoTs, but your accuracy is greatly debuffed.

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Later on with Dark Regeneration, accuracy debuffs are complete death for a /DA.

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Like I said, I'm no whizz with the maths - guess I should say he's taking 300% of the damage he was before?

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Yes that is clearer than a 200% increase.

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well if you pick most of your prim and sec, it will easily become tight I dont have acro on my kin offender and I easily manage to swoop in close.

of course, i team alot, when you solo I think i'd recommend it for the mez protection

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I team loads as I can't really work solo. I am as slow at soloing as a mid level tank but without the safety. Most of the time it is sleeps and stuns that get me, even in teams.

I find most of my secondary is worthless, Short Circuit and Tesla Cage are

Of my primary Inertial Reduction is worthless ( because I have the leaping pool ) so I don't know, Repel is counter productive for my current playstyle as I need to get and stay close to keep alive / keep my end up. Increase Density is rarely used but useful. It wouldn't bother me to drop it.

Of my secondary I only ever have time for Short Circuit, Lightning Bolt or Tesla Cage. So Charged Bolts, Snipe and Voltaic Sentinel are pretty much wasted.

So I could probably drop 2 powers without caring....

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Didn't take Fly or Leap and got through 50 levels of kinetic offending quite happily. Acrobatics does, of course, make things easier, but a decent kin offender is a very tight build and it can be a nightmare to squeeze in.

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How come yours was so tight? What powerpools did you take?

If you are relying on Transference for endurance like me, acrobatics is really really useful, I would go as far to say almost essential. I had a no stamina flying build and had real problems with it. Acrobatics is far superior and is worth the extra power ( even though it does seem silly to have the jumping pool on a character with a jump in his primary ).

I've found that Kin is pretty aggro causing, enemies don't like it when you drain their speed / endurance / power. So make sure you have some defensive powers in your secondary.

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Clicky for Invinc ToHit information

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Yes tiffany Seville got it wrong, see last post.


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it tested it yesterday and the ToHit buff from Invinc is indeed in the 20% range for Tankers with one foe in melee. i was getting about 30% with it three-slotted with even-level SO's.



well, strike that test result ... i messed up something in the numbers. i've also re-ran some older tests and i'm getting results much more in line with my findings from back in Nov last year, i.e. something more like a 3.5% to hit benefit for one foe in melee.

i'm going to do some more work on this and will let y'all know what comes of it.

sorry for the confusion!

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Which means you should ignore my previous calculations they are wrong.