TwoHeadedBoy

Yea, the obvious answer here: Mental doesn't need a buff. The rest of the secondaries are being buffed to be as survivable as /Mental, in a relative sense, probably because Arbiter Hawk found one of my /Mental builds and realized how underpowered the rest of the Blaster secondaries were in comparison.

I even suggested that the Dev's use /Ment as a measuring stick for buffing other secondaries, while babies whined about nerfing /Ment to be as crappy as everything else. For the record, I won. Other Blaster secondaries are now being buffed to be as 'relatively survivable' as Mental. You still don't have the offense to compete with high end results, and your defense (read: Not 'defense' the mechanic, but 'defense' as in sports; Offense v. Defense) is much easier to use. I know you simpletons love simple things.

So, it takes way less inf and way less cleverness to build a Blaster that's about 75% as durable as a peak /Ment Blaster, come i24. It also won't have a -regen power, but that's ok. The people who are sooper stoked about these changes are people who play Blasters that weren't God Moding the game (on Blasters) before i24 like I've been doing.

You guys just need to realize that you're getting a consolation prize for not playing /Ment and move on.

Also, you're welcome for making such a stink pointing out how crappy all of your Blasters were by showing mine off around the forums. I'm sure you hate me for it, but I wouldn't even be slightly surprised if Dev's took notice, since they followed the spirit of ALL of my suggestions to give the common folk (that's what I call most of you) a consolation prize, in order to feel that you were relevant.

NOTICE:

I DO NOT SPEAK FOR /MENT AS A WHOLE, OR THE COMMUNITY THAT PLAYS IT.

MOST OF WHAT I DO WITH THE SET IS EQUALLY, IF NOT MORE RELIANT UPON MY OWN INTUITION AND BUILD SKILLZ AS IT IS ON THE AWESOME POWERSET ITSELF. IF MORE PEOPLE QUOTE ONE OF MY POSTS QQ'ING ABOUT A /MENT NERF, I WILL BE VERY ANNOYED. I'M SORRY FOR BEING SMARTER THAN YOU. MENTAL ISN'T EVEN A PARAGON MARKET SET YOU LAZY *******(S.)

Dude, wow.... My /Mental Blasters are as survivable as my high end Fiery Aura Scrappers (Clarification edit: I don't FARM with my FA Scrappers, I wreck normal content with them at alarming rates,) and those are durable as hell.

My Mental Blasters are a small purple from the softcap to ALL POSITIONS. That means, no s/l (or Ranged) exclusivity. Everything is covered but anomalies.

My Mental Blasters have over 50% s/l resistance, which will be going up ~10% with issue 24. They have >30% NRG resistance-Again, only going up.

Sounds like good resists to the 3 most common damage types on top of amazing defense.

Does that sound good enough to spend less than 2 seconds in an alpha strike to you? Good.

These same builds also PERMANENTLY regenerate 112 HP PER SECOND in melee range, after less than a 2 second time investment. Wow.

So let's recap...


An inspiration macro and/or pre-planning purchase wise means being softcapped to ALL POSITIONS WHENEVER NECESSARY, and having 32.5% to all positions the rest of the time.

Over 50% (closer to 60% when i24 launches) resistance to the two most common damage types in the game- Smashing/Lethal. Over 30% (will only get higher, once again) resistance to the third most common damage type, Energy damage.

Oh, that's not enough? I bet that only works for FARMS!

I'm sure you can agree, even in your warped line of thought, that this is all at least enough to stand still for two seconds and not die.

Good! After those 2 seconds, I will be regenerating OVER 100 HP PER SECOND. I bet that only works on farms though! There are not spawns of 10 enemies in normal high end content!


....


Oh, and if all that wasn't enough, let's move on to a perma 500% regen debuff. That sounds like a pretty awesome regen debuff to me! It's enough of a debuff, in fact, to solo GM's without any outside +DMG, temps, inspirations or pets. Not even Judgement!

And yes, my /Mental Blasters CAN in fact farm. They can do a lot more than that, though. They can compete with Scrapper survivability. I play my Scrappers the same way I play my Blasters (Don't you DARE try to tell my Blasters OR my Scrappers that they don't have Fury bars!) and neither ever feels more or less at risk than the other.

They can also solo GM's.

They can also solo 54x8 Malta and Carnie spawns.

They can also farm and power level at impressive speeds, like you've already acknowledged.

Once i24 launches and you can pull off all of these feats on a /Whatever, 'hide behind the Brute and don't take alpha's because you're too poor to have a high end /Mental ' Blaster, please let me know, and I'll be glad to acknowledge your preferred secondary as /Mental's equal.

I doubt that you can do this, but if you can, I will place whatever it is that you think hiding behind everyone else and regening a bit more will accomplish in terms of character capabilities on a pedestal equal to /Mental.

Remember, you are fighting for equality. Superiority is NO WHERE near your horizon. Nothing can do what /Mental does. Nothing will be able to do what /Mental does after i24. You're competing for second best, so please, start being honest with yourself.

This is nowhere near being true. In fact it's the least true thing I've read all day. If you know how to build and play, /Mental will still be the best Blaster secondary in the game after i24. It just doesn't go well with Dark Blast.

Yea I have all my Arch/Ment's stuff moved over to my Fire/Ment for i24. It uses passive accolades and Agility Alpha for build goals so make sure to turn all that stuff on.


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I would agree with you if this was a conversation about IO's or something, but in the case of powersets you would be paying for variety, not performance. In my mind as long as no paid sets are better than Super Strength numerically, there's no risk of pay to win. With TW, you're paying for roughly the same performance as SS in a shinier package and with different mechanics.

As for nerf rage, that's what beta testing is for. They've done a pretty good job with that so far imo.

Titan Weapons does a great job of being different than SS, not too far ahead and not too far behind- It's the same relative performance with different limiting factors, momentum and redraw instead of a Rage crash. Personally I think the best solution is to leave legacy sets alone for the most part since especially melee-wise nothing is really *dramatically* under performing, but when designing new sets keep SS and TW in mind as the bar. It is an old game after all. If people are going to cry for SS nerfs though, I just think the opposite would be a more appropriate solution.

It can be convenient for stragglers, or in situations where several people are defeated. It's also nice if you're playing with a lot of people who really have no idea what they're doing, ie: you're on a TPN and people are outside fighting the good fight against innocent bystanders.

Overall though, I agree with the OP. It's a pretty annoying power and in the wrong hands it does more harm than good.

Yep. Warshades fit this concept particularly well since it applies on a mechanical AND aesthetic level. The whole feeding off of life forces thing, y'know. Another option would be a Stalker, maybe Dual Blades/Dark. Lurking in the shadows with big knives and stuff, and a dark abyss swelling around you. Shrug.

Alternatively, we could just leave Super Strength alone. It's probably the most popular and effective melee set in the game. If anything, other sets should be balanced around SS, not the other way around.

I know what Dwarf does. I was talking about the +HP Dwarf gives at one point, and how +Def is better than +HP in PVE. Seems like you're mixing up quotes though, because what you're responding to and what you're quoting have nothing to do with one another.

The quote you have there is in reference to ST DPS- AIB mentioned D Mire in a ST chain and that was my response.

And even Dechs, the author of the guide you are referencing, now uses his human form for ST DPS.

What I'm taking from this is that you're intentionally trying to argue with me? Seems odd since I was the only one engaging you in this discussion that was willing to hear you out. Shrug.

You seemed to be stating unequivocally that PB's do more AOE damage than Warshades without EE's. I just posted some quick numbers showing a Warshade's AOE totals at 10 targets, I'm curious to see your fully realized PB's AOE numbers.

Oh ok, yeah human form isn't the best option for AOE on either brand of Kheld.

Unnecessary jab. The only person who's been confrontational in this thread is you.

I'm not talking about player skill because that can't be quantified. Obviously I'd rather play with you than a human Warshade who didn't know how to play, because A.) I like playing with you, and B.) You would be more effective.
For the player, once again, I'm speaking from a mathematical perspective, because we can't quantify player skill. Being able to play well is something I thought was an obvious prerequisite to having an awesome character.

There's no way that a mission, enemy group or difficulty setting alteration can favor an end game tri form build over a human form build, if constructed correctly. Every enemy group becomes less of a threat with more durability and more crowd control. I don't think exemping has a place in an 'ultimate build' discussion, because playing below the level cap is going below the ultimate level of play.
You wouldn't, even with the math right in front of you, because you like playing tri form, and you're good at playing tri form. You've already conceded that human form has the best ST damage- We had a lengthy discussion about that here a while back. I've conceded that tri form does more AOE, having played tri form and seen that first hand.

I would say that especially with the new Knockdown Detonation, human form's AOE is roughly the same amount behind tri form's as the latter's ST is behind the former's. For arguments sake, let's say those two cancel each other out. Now, what else can we look at? I would say survivability. A human form build can get a small purple from the softcap to melee, ranged and aoe damage on a perma eclipse, well rounded build. A tri form build is lucky to have 32.5% s/l defense in all forms. In PVE, defense is more valuable than HP, so even in Dwarf form, the tri form Kheld will be less survivable (again, numerically speaking- not taking into account player skill) than the human form build.

It also stands to reason, especially with the help of the Hybrid taunt aura and Provoke, that since the human build can survive better, it can tank better too. Granted the Dwarf taunt is stronger than Provoke is, but you and I have already done an experiment wherein my human form Warshade was able to split aggro with your Dwarf form'd Peacebringer by using provoke, so the next thing we need to do is go back and look at survivability. Whatever build is more durable is obviously a more capable tank (numerically speaking.)

Now let's look at utility, since a Warshade's stuns are one of the biggest selling points of the AT. In this department, tri form isn't as behind as it used to be since there's no shift penalty for using Gravitic Emanation or Unchain Essence, but tri form still can't run Inky Aspect. This third layer of stun being constantly applied makes a world of difference in crowd control.
Obviously you need to assume max budget and max skill on all counts. I don't know why I need to explain this to you- This is a discussion about ultimate builds, obviously you should be assuming realized potential on all counts. And once again, playing below level 50 is willingly debuffing yourself. You are choosing to be less efficient every time you play below the level cap, so I don't see how that can be relevant in this discussion.
First of all, yes you are. You're the best tri form Warshade I've ever played with and you know that. I think you just wanted to make me say it.

And next, I've actually managed to get my TW/FA Scrapper to 32.5% defense to all positions. He doesn't have a taunt aura until I get him Hybrid, but this would be just as possible on the Brute version of the same sets. A SS/Fire Brute has already duoed the Lambda trial, soloed a GM and soloed a MoITF... Don't underestimate what that build can and can't survive.

Actually, a human Warshade can lead with stuns and provoke with Hybrid running, and then start to focus on damage output while everything is either mezzed or aggroed to the Warshade.

Warshades can't do that, unless they use envenomed daggers.
Being enslaved to those toggles adds to utility and DPS. It also makes you able to survive extremely tough situations in the first place, and be more reliable as a tank for your teammates.

Edit: *High five* for finding the quote button. :P

Good times dude.

I just got online to do some villain tips, so if your loneliness is inspiring you to become evil you're welcome to join me. @Septipheran

What else can a tri form build do better than a human only build aside from more AOE?
You really need to learn how to work the quote button dude. Yes, tri form does more AOE. I said that already.
You know it's true though. A tri form Warshade will clear mobs at a decent pace, about as quickly as a Claws/Something Brute if I had to make a comparison. It's not bad AOE at all, but it's also not anywhere near SS/Fire or TW/Fire. It's not near Archery/Mental Blaster speeds and won't be near Fire/Mental Blaster speeds when issue 24 comes out.
Recharge is a given on any Warshade build. Human form has the best ST damage and the best utility, so the only thing worthwhile there is the AOE damage.
There's no explanation. What I said was exactly true. You can look at the numbers yourself if you don't believe me, or alternatively, ask anyone off the Kheldian boards to verify.
I'm not even sure what you're trying to say here man.
It's about the combination of skills- Warshades will not be the best at anything, except arguably tanking while Hybrid is up. The point is to leverage all abilities simultaneously in order to have a strong and well rounded AT.
I'm working on something to answer that question.
The Mire is nice with instant form shifts, but it's not worth the retoggle time for Orbiting Death, and it's not worth risking defeat by dropping all your defense to use it.

Tri Form builds are better at one thing: AOE damage. They sacrifice survivability and crowd control for that damage. Warshades are incapable of competing with high end AOE sets, so if all you want to do is AOE damage, you'd be better suited playing another Archetype. Perhaps a SS or TW Brute, because they'll out damage even the most fully realized AOE Warshade. If it weren't for the Warshade's multifaceted capabilities, the AT would not be relevant at the high end. To sacrifice strong global defense and potent, consistent crowd control in order to do more AOE damage when your AOE damage will be trivialized by other AT's anyways is not the way to approach an ultimate build.

Of course, when we get toggle suppression, this won't be the case anymore, assuming Dwarf is allowed to keep +defense powers running.

Things below level 50. Exemplaring is below the ultimate level of play.

I've wanted Provoke on my farm-capable Blasters for a long time but I've never been able to work it into my build without losing my 32.5% positional defense or perma Drain Psyche, both of which are things I'm not willing to part with. Melee Hybrid is great, and like Stone said, E-Fences from Mu Mastery helps.

Here's a point for you to consider though: Even if you did have a perma taunt aura/AOE taunt, clearing every enemy in a mob is not the best means of earning the highest rewards over time. Hit the bulk of the enemies, once they start to scatter outside of AOE radius, move on to the next group. Repeat until the bulk is cleared, and then reset and do it again. You'll earn more xp for a friend, tickets, drops, etc. this way regardless. The bulk of rewards lie in clearing LT's and minions, so it stands to reason that you should be clearing as many of those as you can as quickly as possible.