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Quote:If rest could be retooled to the point where the same thing was accomplished, I'd be totally supportive of that too.Endurance
I would argue that instead of fiddling with the numbers and possibly confusing some people after they ding 20 by the suddenly increased endurance drain, that they should change the power [Rest] to have zero recharge, and make it instantly start to work*. The way it is now seems to be designed for a slower paced game than what we currently have, and it should be updated to reflect the nature of the game.
Quote:As for the pointless animation on a miss....it is what it is. It looks dumb, but I doubt it will be changed.
*Use RoF against a single target.*
"Ha! You missed me!"
"...But you're right in front of me. I saw the fire hit you in the head. The fire is STILL hitting you in the head. I'm looking right at it."
"Nope! You missed!"
Quote:Mezzes
I don't like the way they went willy nilly with mezzes, but instead of adding some kind of gimmick to lose it, I'd rather they just take a long look at the enemy types, and cut back on some of them. I think they went overboard on it for some balancing reasons, and they should probably start looking at that to see if the reasoning still applies.
Quote:Special Damage
It's going to happen more and more on incarnate content, because frankly the Dev's are limited to either tacking on a +1 or giving the boss unresistable damage and/or gimmick attacks to artificially pump up the difficulty. The alternative is that we get battles that require more team coordination as the difficulty barrier, like the Abandoned Sewer trial. -
Quote:I'm not saying that standard mez protection toggles should be removed, and I'm not saying break frees and clarion shouldn't continue to work as they do- It's just another means of mez removal to either conserve inspirations, use your inspiration slots for other things, or grab a different Destiny, if you're willing to actively remove your mez. If it was too easy to remove mez, there would be no point in having it in the game at all, and that's not something I want to see- That's why I think there should be some level of active removal.
3. Guitar-hero mez break
ehhhh...no. Mez is mez. Why should my character be held longer than your equally built character just because I cant type as fast or I dotn want to risk knocking something over...
Quote:If you're perma mezzed and you find it happens enough to wish there was a magical de-mez key, then its your lucky day, there is! power choice and slotting can help reduce mez durations and increase defenses. If you *choose* to not slot with mez mitigation in mind and instead opt to do more damage or reduce endurance costs then thats your choice and you have to live with it, or find a team with a helpful defender
Quote:also, how are the random keys delivered? I'm pretty sure someone could writ e a macro to detect character status effects and listen for Mezzes then listen for the key sequence and input them instantly thus making that character immune to all mez effects! A lot of trouble to go to? yes, but to some it would be worth it and it only takes one person to come up with the macro and share it for the damage to become widescale. -
Quote:It's not a matter of whether or not it can be figured out. It's pretty simple. It's a matter of the level of engagement and enjoyability that a rapidly depleting endurance bar presents during low levels.Try these options.
P.S. I was a new player once, I figured it out. Am pretty sure you were new at one point too... Also, I find that championing the new player while deriding those with less ability are quite contrasting points of view.
Quote:Sure, remove the animation. However, since you are apparently looking for something that is a more true representation of life, the endurance should cost more, and there should be a defence debuff.
When you miss, you still excert at least the same amount of energy, yet need to spend more in order to compensate for the miss. Often that same compensation leaves one open to counterattack.
Quote:No. I am sure that this will make me one of those you deride, however, there is enough **** happening on the screen these days, no need to add a sequence of buttons to press in order to drop my mez.
Quote:It's a direct consequence of how powerfull we have become. However, maybe if there weren't so many patches and crap that I need to look out for, I could pay attention enough to pick out a sequence of buttons I need to push in order to drop mez.
Since they are all easily avoided though, I have to admit I am confused as to why these mechanics are too much a pain to avoid, yet you want to make things more complicated for dropping mez.
Quote:Let's also not forget about us folks who don't use a QWERTY...mine is QWERTZ for example. I have ä, ö, ü and such stuff; what am I supposed to do if the game wants me to press a key I don't even have?
Quote:Also, what about people who have lots and lots of keybinds.
"The game wants me to press P... but on P I have [Self Destruct]"
Quote:IMHO none of your suggestions is really that good;
50% end below lvl 20...we already got inherent fitness, that has to be good enough. -
Quote:Yeah Johnny Butane in the thread on the AT boards about updating mez had a better suggestion than mine about removing Mez actively- Once again, this was only one way of approaching an active mez removal system that I thought of. I'm not saying it's the best way or even a good way to approach active mez removal, but I think the spirit of the idea is what's important.I can see merit with most of your suggestions, but... a QTE anti-mez?
No.
Not only no, but hell no. I play this game to relax, not deal with freaking quicktime events. If I'm playing a squishy without mez protection, I generally wait it out, or I press one button and use a Break Free if I don't think it's safe.
I don't mean to be abrupt, but I really, really don't want to see QTE's in my CoX.
Edited to add: It's not like it's a gamepad with, say 6-10 buttons. We're (in most cases I assume) talking about a QWERTY or full keyboard. How many random buttons could it be, and could you find that one random key in time?
Re: Your edit. For my suggestion, which would work great for me personally, finding the key in time would be the entire challenge of the system. It's not meant to be an "Instant left click, bam, no more mez" kind of thing. It's meant to be an earned means of mez/debuff removal through active and attentive play, which in this particular system would mean finding the correct key in the predefined window of time. -
Quote:Because Tanks should be able to fill their role at all times, and the Tanker AT is currently severely underpowered. This would give the AT a real funtion, while also justifying unresistable/indefensible damage for other AT's- It would kill two birds with one stone.I'm not seeing a logical why to this... aside from you think it would be better or more fun, somehow.
Quote:Sounds to me like you agree with me. If a Tank doesn't move for Nova Fist he "did something wrong" and therefore by your own logic "deserves to die." -
Quote:I'm not saying that the game should not have a mez system, period- I'm saying that there should be an intuitive means of removing it. My example in the OP might not be the best one, but I think it still gets the point across; Say, if you're held, you need to properly react to 3 keys popping up with a ~.5s period to strike each key; So, "G" pops up, you have .5s to press G- Success means you go to the next key (failure means you stay mezzed,) A pops up, so you have .5s to press A- If successful, say, T pops up, and if you press T within .5s, you break the mez/debuff. It rewards attentiveness and you're still suffering a minimum of 1.5s of mez for a 3 key sequence; More lethal mezzes can have more complicated and lengthy key patterns to break free of. In order to account for lag, you would get another chance at breaking out of the mez ~5-10s later through a slower prompted sequence of keys.Am I reading this right? You don't have an issue with the game exploiting natural areas where characters don't usually have protection, but don't like the use of unresistable damage... which would end up accomplishing the same thing?
Re: Unresistable damage. Because I misread what you said but I still want to leave that rant there for historical purposes:
Not all characters/builds have strong psi/toxic resistance. In fact, quite a few don't even have strong Energy resistance. I think those that do have exotic resistance have it for a reason, and they should be able to leverage it against exotic damage types, which exist in rare but lethal situations. Like, oh, I don't know.. Incarnate trials?
Quote:(Also, it would make no sense thematically for Marauder's attack to do Psi... he doesn't have that power... or Toxic since he has no venom, poison, or biological toxin... or anything corrosive. Before you say it: "But does Marauder have access to a damge type that, essentially, doesn't exist?" Yes, due to his empowerment from the Well (via Cole) he is far more powerful than any single PC... so why should their conventional abilities protect them from him?) -
Quote:An alternate way to look at that is that perhaps Tanks should just be buffed to include +res and/or +def to the otherwise unresistable/indefensible types.Re: Indefensible/Unresistable Damage
It sounds to me like what you want is a massive nerf to Destiny powers. Because, IMO, were it not for the ability to rather easily hard cap resistance and defense with a few well-timed Barrier applications, NPCs like Marauder and Cole wouldn't need to have such "cheap trick" attacks.
Further, I think it is great that mechanics are included that force combatants in iTrials to actually move. Were one able to shrug off NPC nukes in iTrials, battles would be even more sedentary and boring. Playing a melee AT is easy... having no "gimmics," arguably, would make sure to keep it that way.
It sounds like you are talking about Barrier specifically though, which only gives a few seconds of extremely impressive totals, but yes, could be staggered by well-coordinated leagues in an effective way. This would be more rewarding player cleverness than anything else though, and while that's not necessarily a bad thing it is largely too easy.
Still, players manage to die all the time, even with Barrier, and not always from unresistable attacks. Players die from pulling excess aggro and wandering away from their team. With Barrier. This is acceptable, and those players deserve to die since they messed up and played poorly. They did something wrong and they were defeated.
I still think moving should be encouraged- Nova Fist doing 50% Psi/50% Toxic damage would be reasonable, and since most players don't have the survivability to withstand an attack like that, they'd be best served to get out of the way. -
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First of all, I know a lot of these issues boil down to the fact that COH is just old. Given the assumed interest in modernizing the game and competing in a market that isn't just people who already like COH anyways though, here are my top suggestions for improving the gameplay experience.
1.) Cut endurance costs on all powers before level 20 by 50%.
I'm not saying that the endurance costs of the actual powers should be increased that drastically, just that all characters below level 20 should be granted a 50% global endurance cost reduction on every power they use.
There's nothing fun about having to use rest every third or fourth group because your endurance is running out, and with hardly any inspiration slots to speak of at that point, pre-buying blues isn't an option- Not to mention most new players wouldn't even think that far ahead.
2.) Cut the endurance cost in half, and remove the animation penalty from all powers that miss.
There's nothing sillier than watching a low level character use Shadow Maul, have them know that they missed already, and then just keep punching. This is another part of the game that's just frustrating, and not fun or engaging in any way. I can't see it having a positive effect on any new players.
3.) Make the mez and debuff systems more reasonable.
I believe that all mezzes and debuffs should be able to be actively removed- My personal choice would be an intuitive pop up text that states exactly what debuff/mez you are afflicted by, and allows you to press a random key or sequence of keys in order to break the negative effect on your character.
This would mean that there would be no more "perma held" situations- If there's nothing you can do about a mez but click a break free, it's not challenging. It's not fun. It just comes down to a random generator that in no way reflects player skill or character ability.
The same thing applies to massive stacked debuffs- If you're fighting enemies with a lot of -tohit and you don't have Aim, or 20 yellows sitting in your tray, you can't hit your enemies. Forget all the global accuracy slotting you have, forget trying to fight through it. Once the game decides you can't hit your enemies, you just lose. This works in reverse too via defense debuffs.
The point is that this is a very dated and unintelligent aspect of the game. It's not fun or challenging to be told that you can't do anything, better luck next time, you lose. An active mez/debuff removal system is necessary in order to keep the game challenging while rewarding player skill and character strength.
4.) No more unresistable, indefensible damage.
We have exotic damage types for a reason- Toxic and Psionic damage should be doing plenty for Dev's to have options to design challenging content. If you think everything you can think of is too easy, that doesn't give you license to stop being creative and start cheating. It's not fun to build a high end Tank, only to have it trivialized by a type of damage that doesn't even exist in the game for players. This goes for defense too- No more "unpositioned non-existent-because it's-special" attacks.
If I have 45% defense to melee, ranged and AOE attacks, I don't care if the attack is Psionic, Lethal or Gubbly-Gobbly-Marauder-Chugged-A-Beer. I don't expect it to have more than a 5% chance to hit me. It's just illogical, and it goes against everything that we've learned by playing the game. No attack from an NPC should be indefensible. That's not intuitive or challenging, it's just a cheap trick.
When explaining how defense and resistance works to new players, should I be saying, "Building defense is awesome! Until you get attacked 3 times, and all your defense is gone!" Or, "Tanks are really survivable, they can protect their team by being on the front lines! Until a damage type that doesn't exist one shots them!" Or, "This Scrapper will do awesome damage! Until he gets hit with a certain kind of power that makes it so he can't even HIT anything, and then he'll just die!"
None of these things are good. Please fix them. -
Quote:Well if we can get the mez system working in a reasonable way (again, see a couple of threads down) only reasonable deaths should be happening- No more cheating NPC's perma-mezzing you, and I would argue that debuffs should get the same treatment; No more ridiculous stacked debuffs to the point of removing any semblance of build strategy whatsoever and just boiling every situation down to, "Bad luck." It's not intuitive combat at all, and with our current system of, "You can use your powers. Until the game decides that all your powers are worthless. Then there's nothing you can do about it- No amount of skill can save you," self rez powers make sense. If the Dev's decide to fix that frankly horrible aspect of the game though, I don't think self rez powers would really be necessary, because people would only be dying when THEY mess up. Not every time the game rolls a dice and decides that they lose.Agreed. In-set rezzes are pretty much here to stay. Give them some use alive and dead or otherwise make them all worth getting in the first place (/Regeneration's Revive is still a crying shame). I can usually find something else worth getting in almost every power set with a rez, but a "while still standing" effect would at least make me juggle the cost of the power versus something else.
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Quote:After thinking about it all weekend I switched to Fire/MM Blast. Too bad, I had a great concept going (I'll keep, back shelf stuff) and was level 25. I really want to be satisfied that I made a good run towards a Blapper since I have resisted them so long. Thank you for the input. I'll try to put together a build over the next day or two for review.
Good choice dude, i24 Fire/Ment is going to be the cream of the crop. -
Quote:I would hate it if they just removed the self rez powers. Those things are awesome, especially DA's and its 30 mag stun. And Rise of the Phoenix is amazing. Even the more boring ones are still useful, because no matter how invincible you look on paper, something will happen and you will die.
Yeah, my point was that we should replace the self rez powers with crashless t9's and make all the existing t9's crashless- If enough players still want self rez powers after that change, just add one to every melee secondary (primary for tanks) and let people have the option to pick it up.'
Re: looking good on paper and still dying- Yeah, if it was literally IMPOSSIBLE to ever die on any character, the game just wouldn't be fun anymore. I have beastly characters that still get wrecked by max setting Arachnos, because Arachnos don't mess around. While the mez is frustrating (that's addressed in another active thread atm) that very rare and extreme case still doesn't justify wasting a power choice for a self rez on any of my builds, being able to get back up doesn't mean they won't just kill me again, and I don't build my characters around dying, I build them around surviving. -
Quote:See, my Blaster is a beast. He can and does solo entire groups, in fact multiple groups on 54x8, but it only becomes a problem when he gets perma mezzed through his defense and clarion and runs out of break frees.I don't solo +4x8 ANYthing because I'm not a mastochist!
I'll do +4/X1 or 2. I'll do +2/x6 to 8. But if you're playing a Squishy character against +4s with spawn sizes meant for groups, and you're cheesed off that you're getting beat, it occurs to me that one should decrease the difficulty!
Less able and less awesome Blasters are bound to run into the same problem even on lower settings. That's just the only point for me at which anything becomes a real challenge, so I was speaking from personal experience. Obviously I'm an outlier. -
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Quote:I like it as long as you only mean epic attacks and not epic toggles (or any other survivability powers, ever.) That would be even worse than mez is currently- At least now I can hope that my toggles and set bonuses will be enough to keep me alive until the maz wears off. Start dropping those and more often than not we'll have no chance.So a level 50 blaster with a mag three stun would lose his epics. A level 22 would lose the three most recent power picks. Defiance for blasters could still work as normal, just preventing the last three powers from being mezzed away.
Brawl and the origin temp would be exempt from mez, so no matter what, you could always do something. Incarnate powers might be exempt. Mez protection would work the same as it does, reducing the mag applied. -
I swear around ~i20 on some >perma hasten builds I remember seeing it double stack in my buff bar for a short duration before the initial cast wore off.
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Quote:I chuckled pretty good at that one...lol...I totally agree with that sentiment. Making the rez a power with a debuff of sorts you can use while alive and dead (to rez) would be useful though.
I made a new alt recently and one of the biggest factors in motivating myself to go through with creating a new character was, "Don't worry THB, now you'll be able to use all that extra crap you got from super packs!" -
Quote:I appreciate the look THB. Do you see anyway I can steal enough slots from somewhere to make the snipe viable without losing any defense?
Honestly I don't know the best chain for Rad Blast so someone more qualified will have to help you get your DPS chain up and snipe running for you- Once you have that info I can help you out with working it into the build. I can tell you that Fire/Ment will do more ST than a min/maxed Rad build, and I managed to work the nuke and snipe into my Fire/Ment without sacrificing any of my defense totals (or anything else really.) Since you've obviously been working hard on this build- I'll PM you my i24 Fire/Ment (as long as you keep it to yourself) so you can see how I fit everything in. -
Quote:Y'know, part of me gets irritated when the people crying out loudest for mez protection make up lame excuses why they can't carry Break frees. I carry 4 at ALL times on ALL characters, and I've never had a problem. Except then I realized there's badges for BEING mezzed and so after 5 years on my badger (a nice and squishy controller) finally hard to farm for them by standing in front of a sapper all night.
By the same token, not even my blaster has a single mez-taken badge, and only the first debt badge. I guess -I-'m the one doing something terribly wrong if Blasters have such a great ability to get mezzed and faceplant =/
That said, the few times i HAVE been mezzed, I find it greatly cathartic to mash a button (usually an attack), so I guess it WOULD be cool if that did SOMEthing.
Well the OP has been making a universal point about the mechanics of the system, which if you'd been paying attention, many agree that they are not exactly reasonable. Just because you personally don't have an issue with it doesn't mean that the problem doesn't exist- How often do you solo 54x8 Malta on your Blasters? How often do you clear most of the map and get down to the last room, only to find that you don't have 3 of anything to turn into a Break Free, and you just got perma held through Clarion? Do you really think that's an issue of player skill? Because it's happened to me on several occasions, and that just doesn't seem fair. If we add an intuitive mez removal system (along with mez suppression) to the game, unfair things like this won't happen anymore. It's a detriment to technically sound player/character performance, amongst other things. -
Quote:I was just giving one example of how intuitive mez removal could work- The spirit of the idea is what's important, and your suggestion follows the same line of thinking. The semantics aren't important to me, and if yours is easier to implement I'd be all for it.That may be a little too much work. A simpler method, and one I think would be easy to implement* would be that if you are mezzed, every time you press the jump button you recieve 1 point of protection for Hold, Immobs, Disorient, Sleep and Fear, lasting 5 seconds each and stacking up to however many times.
That would allow people to break out, give players a ~5 second reprieve from further mez, preventing chain mezzing. Confuse and Placate are exempt because, by and large, they don't prevent a player from acting to save/heal themselves and Knock/Repel are exempt because they are not exactly a mez you can break out of.
*Yes, I know the devs hate that phrase.
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Quote:"Just remove the crash" and "Make is a temporary toggle" leads to the same problem to how to balance for exemple Elusive VS Power Surge (or "hey look I have a self rez!").
I'm all good with the no crash thing if they balance T9 powers and make self rezes something like a strong self buff that eventually rezes you but still have an effect if you are alive (oh, and while you'r at it, revamp Stone Armor completely!).
If you look at the powers you'll have:
Great/Overpowered Powers: Power Surge - Unstoppable
Bad Powers: One with shield - Strengh of Will
Crap Powers: Overload - Elude
WTF I dont get anything: Dark Armor, Fiery Armor, Regeneration (comparatively)
WTF I dont get anything and I already suck so much its a shame: Stone Armor
Now you could try to convince me ElA and Invul do in the current state of the game need this buff compared to Fiery, Stone or SR but I really doupt you will.
Well as soon as you mention Fiery Aura you forfeit your point in a way. Is ROTP a good power? No. Is it a good res power? Sure, it's a great rez power... But discussing good rez powers is like discussing whether brawl or throwing knives is better. Both are worthless, so who cares?
The rest of Fiery Aura is so good that it doesn't need a rez. If anything, I would say replace all self rez powers with crashless t9's- Defense t9's for resist sets and Resistance t9's for Defense sets. If people really want to keep self rezzes, why not have both in every powerset? Personally I feel like self rez powers are worthless in gameplay, and they only become more worthless when you take into account the fact that the majority of serious players have like 10 million charges of self rez being ignored in their e-mail box from all the superpacks they bought. -
First I absolutely agree with the OP, but I'd like to add something:
I believe that if complete status protection for all characters isn't an option, those without protection should be able to actively remove mez. ie: "Stunned! Press the following random sequence of keys in the order that they pop up in order to break the stun!" "x!" "a!" "b!" "Success! Stun broken!" This would add a whole new level of active play to the game while ridding unfair "perma mez" situations that aren't challenging, since you don't even have the opportunity to be challenged when you can't move or react in any way. -
I play a human Warshade- Sacrificing all my toggles (using Nova form) is not an option when I just prefer a certain travel power. Afterburner +Hover means 2 more spots for LOTG 7.5's, and Hover means more defense. Fly itself takes a BOTZ set. I enjoy the flight pool and I'm glad that I'll be able to use my favorite travel pool on my main.
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Look at this thread.
A small purple from the softcap to all positions, strong s/l/e resistance and perma Drain Psyche- It's designed for melee play, and about as much damage as you can hope to get out of Rad Blast.