Toony

Originally Posted by Vox Populi

As for buying a Notice with shards, I'll stick with my first post in this thread- it's better to start high and adjust down if needed.

Originally Posted by Atomic_Woman

I don't think anyone is saying that this conversion recipe isn't tedious. It's supposed to be tedious. Since they're, you know, trying to incentivize getting Notices by actually doing the WTF.

Originally Posted by UberGuy

There is nothing in a game like this that players can't reduce to rote, even if it involves something random, like movement to avoid the nanite patches in the Apex TF's Battle Maiden fight. Once you've done anything in a game of this sort more than a few times, doing it again becomes an exercise in repetition.

This game, and basically all MMOs, are balanced around metrics of reward/time, with wiggle room for subjective factors of challenge/annoyance/complexity. For example, something that takes a lot of lead time to organize a group to participate might get more reward than its time to complete might suggest, even including that formation time, because coordination of a large group is often non-trivial.

The point is you're never going to find any reward in an MMO that isn't going to eventually devolve into something that someone somewhere will consider tedious once the novelty wears off.

Originally Posted by Vox Populi

As far as complaint threads like these are concerned, they are equal. Some people hate a challenge.

But like I said earlier about Very Rare items- there should be some people complaining, otherwise they're probably too easy to get.

Originally Posted by reiella

The proposed rate for the discussion was 3 weeks actually.

If you were soloing at 0/x8 getting 1 shard/mission, it comes out between 2 and 3 weeks simply doing tips [closer to 2 weeks if you add in the morality mission].

I can certainly sympathize with the idea that not everyone can solo 0/x8. The problem being that if you use 0/x1 as the baseline with 3 weeks, you'll have the optimal performing at a much faster rate [I'd like to say less than 1 week, but someone else can better chart the rate difference in shard rate for 0/x1 and 0/x8], and that can create a potential problem with the WSF serving it's function.

As both Eiko and myself have said though, it's really awkward to compare against the time-gated method. I'd much prefer to compare against the Incarnate Trial method to be honest, but we don't know that reward structure, so we have to make due with what we have.

[ edit / add ]
There is also the alternative perspective to compare, and that's the time investment, but the time-gate on WST makes that a different beast as well.

Originally Posted by Minotaur

Most teams can do Kahn. You need one debuffer and something that can take aggro. Those are pretty minimal requirements for an 8 man team. I've tanked him at various times on a PB, spines/fire scrapper, brute and seen it done with PA.

Barracuda needs a MM/def on top, and a way to deal with the ambushes, and is actually difficult for many teams.

Originally Posted by Signpost

I don't think it's autohit though, which means capped def would likely make it miss most of the time, I think.

Originally Posted by warden_de_dios

Corrupted Lightning Bolt has a long and visually distinct animation. He raises his right hand up slowly over his head, stares at it, and then throws lightning at his feet. Here is a frame from the Apex of the animation.



In theory it should be possible to see the animation starting and move out of the way. In games were you fight a solo boss or the boss is way bigger then the other NPCs it's pretty easy to see the animation and move away. When the boss is the same size as every other model on the map and the players are spamming all that FX it's almost impossible to tell the lightning bolt animation form a sit emote.

Originally Posted by reiella

What rate of generation for the Notice of the Well for a soloist is practical in your view?

In terms of /week since we kind of have to contrast it against the WST currently.

Originally Posted by brophog02

So you played all of the content to this point with no preparation at all? Never learned where the stores were. Never logged into the forum. Never checked the wiki for info. Never downloaded tools like Mids, Vidiotmaps, or a badging tool. Never slotted anything. Never used the market. Never asked others for help. Etcetera, etcetera.

Let's at least get better arguments for the whine threads, everyone. These kinds of arguments in these threads couldn't beat a grey conning deadman. If you need to whine, at least do that right. Show some pride.

Originally Posted by Dispari

It's about like fighting 8 AVs, 1-2 at a time. Almost any team can do that.

Originally Posted by passerby

I resubscribed about 2 months ago to try out the content that has been released since GR. The main reason I'm staying subbed is because of the end game content. This is a returning customer who stays because of the team-based end-game content and the friends whom I run the TFs with.

MMOs need content to keep players playing with one another, forming social bonds to slow down the attrition rate that happens to any MMO. After returning, I asked the guys who have been playing consistently since years ago what has happened to those who have left and whether we can cajole them to return with all the new content that we can do together. Two of them have since reactivated their accounts. Social bonds are an important ingredient in keeping an MMO alive and so is content that requires teams or team-work. I made those friends while playing team-based content.

The die-hard soloers obviously see themselves as being mainstream and feel entitled to being catered to. But CoH, to stay alive, need to stick to their plan of developing team-based end-game content while allowing players who prefer to solo but run TFs occasionally to enjoy it as well. Those who adamantly solo, and solo only, for whatever reason, cannot be accommodated without higher development cost. The return on investment isn't going to be worth it. So CoH might be better off financially to let these die-hard soloers go than to incur the cost to retain them.

Originally Posted by Mr. DJ

That's quite different from what I'm talking about, it takes more than simple complaints and criticisms to get banned. We have had plenty of people with valid complaints about various things over the years that weren't being complete fools about it and didn't resort to personally insulting the Devs at every given chance.

Originally Posted by warden_de_dios

"Won't back down" is that your code word for this gripe and whine fest you've been on for the past week?

Originally Posted by Mr. DJ

complaints and criticisms aren't really the problem...I've seen some people get the thought stuck in their head that they could do better than the Devs and provide no background to backup the claim, or if i13 showed anything, people can be just downright insulting, which resulted in people being banned, though they just popped back up in temp accounts and did the same thing.

Originally Posted by brophog02

There are a few members on this board who will never attempt to understand the reasoning of the devs EVER in the games history and will attack the devs as if they were their parents.

Originally Posted by MunkiLord

That really depends how many of those people there are playing the game. If they are an insignificant percentage of the playerbase, then they may not be catered to because it might not make sense financially.

If those people make up a decent amount of the palyerbase, they will get what they want.

It just comes down to who pays more of Paragon Studio's bills.

Originally Posted by Atomic_Woman

I find it interesting how one 'side' of this debate seems to rely on pre-emptively defending their position while at the same time trying to cast aspersions on the 'other side'. It makes it seem like your (general your) reaching for ways to hamstring discussion.

Originally Posted by MunkiLord

What separates the poor, average, good, and great players is knowledge. Any moron can come to the forums and copy a fantastic build. But if they don't know what they are doing in game, the only difference is it will take them a bit longer to get debt badges.

Originally Posted by Golden Girl

There'll be an army of Primal Earth Incarnates to protect Praetoria - which might be very useful if Tyrant decides to call in his big tentacled Incarnate friend if things start turning against him

Originally Posted by MrHassenpheffer

It just makes this seem... I dunno if I'm being to hypercritical but... cheaply done? Not enough effort into developing content? What am I looking for here?

Originally Posted by Liquid

Though it's been proven that EG didn't say this, I do think plenty of people think "I ran it in 30 minutes last night, that means you have no reason not to run TFs despite your time limitations". So I'd like to share this anecdote and resulting thought:

The other night I had an hour. I hopped on a Barracuda, knowing that the last two I'd done took less than an hour.

This one got started 15 minutes after I joined (waiting on people to switch characters and stuff), and took 1.5 hours. At 50 minutes, I realized that I was at a point where I could quit the team, and possibly make the end encounter unwinnable for the team due to lost buffs, debuffs, and DPS (I was a Corruptor), or continue, and be late for my RL obligation. I opted for being late, and got "in trouble". Next time I will not do it at all under those circumstances.

This is the problem with the "I ran it in X time, so can you" thought process: you cannot guarantee that the team activity you are doing will take a specific length of time unless the activity gets started immediately, and has an actual time limit on it of that time. Soloing is the usually only option for people who have lots of RL obligations because they can get started immediately, and if they underestimate how much time a task will take, they don't screw anyone over if they have to leave early.

Originally Posted by MunkiLord

He was just pointing out how quickly earning a Notice could be. If you can't understand his point, or would rather just make stuff up(like you were just doing), that is on you.