Synaesthetix

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As far as I'm aware this isn't possible. If I remeber correctly the AVs (Heros) in the RSF can be confused but even if they are confused successfully they will not attack each other and just stand there till the confusion ends.

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You remember correctly, the FP will not attack each other if confused.

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(Telemine - copyright me )

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Just for the record, "Telemining" has been the standard phrase for TPing foes onto Trip Mines since the early days of arena, coined in the US.

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spending 40 minutes permanently caged isn't that fun.

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Edited for personal experience.

And that's awesome news, and makes me much more inclined to actually level my Sonic characters for PvP now.

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If the difference in fury gain my brute sees when Blazing Aura is on is anything to go by then I'm pretty sure it has more of a contribution than just the initial hit.

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Perception != Reality.

Damage auras don't build Fury past the first hit, although they do help to keep mob aggro focused on you which may result in the 'Fury increase' you're witnessing.

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Just wondering - have you ever played with a PvPer that was good at PvP and bad at PvE?

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Yes.

Taking bets on who guesses first.

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I'm totally betting the house on Xanthus.

fake edit: Failing that, it's Plight.

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Get a thermal in there and you won't hold your own against a few villains :P

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lrn2readkthx

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'cel and I have held our own as a villain duo numerous times

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That's just numbers in zones. 6 Villians will beat 3 heros and vice versa pretty much regardless of spec (unless it's an Emp Blaster combo ;_. It's not an indication of balance at all.

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Not in my experience; 'cel and I have held our own as a villain duo numerous times against far superior numbers (and superior numbers of heavies), and not just against casual/non-PvPers either. I've also witnessed other people achieve the same thing - mainly in RV as of late, as that's where I spend most of my time these days, although I do fondly remember watching a Plant/Thorns Dom completely dismantling roving groups of heroes in Sirens, solo. YMMV.

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Come on, every top PvP team in the US is Hero, in fact show me a succesful team on the EU/US servers that is a majority of Villian AT's.

The only things people want is Thermals, and then they're just a compliment to Empaths with thier Res shields, not even as good when it comes to other buffs or heals.

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Top-tier large-team Arena fighting - which I presume is what you're talking about given the content of your post, but correct me if I've misunderstood - is a pretty specialised form of PvP that pretty much requires a "perfect" make-up with regard to powersets. Melee types are pretty much overlooked completely, MMs are unwieldy in all but very small teams, and Doms are a bit of a wildcard that most people don't want to risk playing - when it all boils down to a question of highest (ranged) damage and best buffers/debuffers, it's not really surprising that you end up with teams of Blasters, Defenders, Controllers (overwhelmingly Ill/* at that) and the odd Corruptor.

That's not to say that Villains are any weaker in (more casual) zonal PvP, which I'd tender is where the majority of PvP takes place in CoX - they just don't provide the best buffs, so they often don't get a look-in for Arena (at that level). Fact is, most Zonal PvP tends to see a swing in the balance of power between Heroes and Villains, which says to me that whilst things are not and will not ever be perfectly balanced (because that would be [censored] impossible), they're balanced enough for the purpose.

$.02

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Now the reason i say this, is the other night i looked into this during some fun team pvp. After hitting conserve power AND AM on my troller my endurance still ran out, and stayed out for a condierable period.

Now, imo, that is just plain daft. Having no end is far worse than being caged. You cant run away, you cant use heals, you cant defend yourself at all.

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A few things:

Being hit by Heat Exhaustion is only worrying in the event of you actually using any powers. Personally, I drop all non-essential toggles and leave only movement powers on - doing that means you can normally get to the end of it still intact, you just have to take your foot off the gas. Firing off AM was a really unwise move, you just blew a chunk of endurance for no gain (end recovery is minimal, end drain resist doesn't work against -Recovery), and I'm guessing you kept SI on throughout.

You can - and should - always take blues if you're fighting a Thermal, same as you would if you were fighting against a Kin. You can pop blues and stay in the fight and recover end, there are no insps that allow you to recover from Sonic Cage/Detention Field.

Finally, and most importantly - Heat Exhaustion misses. I know this from sitting next to cel and hearing her reaction when it misses. SC/DF rarely miss, even if you've got a PBU'd Defender Fort on you - that's why it's overpowered.

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I could just log on one of my bubblers and cage the cager but theres absolutely no fun or pleasure in that and it just gets too serious.

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At this point I'm pretty much in favour of just vetoing the cage altogether for Monday night on Test - it really doesn't have any point in friendly PvP, and just ends up making everything extremely dull.

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learn what you can

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Lesson learned: KS is dire at picking teams.

In retrospect, I think it might have been better to have further divided the teams up into groups of 4 - the way the "system" panned out last night was a bit of a shambles, and ended up with a complete disparity of buffers between the 4 groups... this reflected in some of the results and probably contributed to some people deciding to call it a night early. I don't think the difference would have been as noticeable with smaller teams, and would probably have left fewer people feeling hard done by.

I was just having fun staying alive and annoying people; other people aren't quite so ambivalent towards being whipped. Something to think about for next time perhaps.

Ill/Emp/PF Controller
Ill/Emp/PF Controller
FF/Sonic/Power Defender
Kin/Rad /Psi/Power Defender (depending on opponents)
Ice/Thermal/BS Corruptor
Ice/Thermal/BS Corruptor
Ice/EM/Ice Blaster
Grav/Ice/BS Dominator

Pretty much like Xan's setup and tactics but with a few small changes - FF/Sonic instead of Sonic/Sonic because bubbles will stack better with Fort and the def shields for Corrs/Doms (Black Scorpion Shield) and Blasters (Ice Mastery APP), and Ins Shield gives end drain resist. (Also, the Blaster and Dom will have the benefit of self-PB'd def shields at least part of the time.) Force Bubble will also screw people's rhythm up far more than Liquefy ever will, if used sparingly.

With a Rad/Psi in the team, the Rad/Psi calls targets; with a Kin/Psi, the Ice/EM calls targets. I'd expect the Kin/Psi to see more outings than the Rad/Psi given how a lot of arena matches work out; Kins just have more utility in big teams, and if you're going to have a kin in the team you're better off with it being a Defender rather than a Corruptor.

The Grav/Ice Dominator is my wildcard - with all the Forge/Fort flying around, there's more than enough damage floating about in that team. A buffed Dominator in the middle of that provides not only decent damage, but has the benefit of being able to fire off Domination pretty much at will. Teams without Kins would also be crippled by the amount of Web Envelope + Crush you could have flying about, but the main reason for the inclusion is essentially to throw people off their stride. You lose a little damage, you lose a little survivability, and you need someone who's damned good at playing a Dominator as opposed to being able to throw any old monkey into an Ice/EM slot. I think the benefits outweigh the negatives past a certain level of ability, though.

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Fire is good for RSF because of the self rez

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I'd say the best thing about /Fire is the availability of Healing Flames, especially if you have a Kin on the RSF with you. As long as you have at least one Corr with res shields to drop on you, /Fire doesn't fare too badly. Self-rez is certainly useful, but ideally you'd be hoping not to have to use it. Fire/ isn't the best choice of primaries though.

Of the listed choices, SS/Elec is the pick of the bunch - don't expect to be holding any of the aggro but you'll probably be standing longer than most because of your Energy Resists, and Rage ensures a healthy level of damage output. Psi Res is negligible: Numi, Psyche, Swan and Malaise go down pretty swiftly and only Psyche does any real noticeable damage. Psi Res is nice to have, but there's no way to buff it to be really useful outside of orange insps/temp power (Enchantment of Serafina iirc).

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So Whos in so far? and any idea's for a date?

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Union post here - tonight at 8pm.

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Looks like I'll have to solo the LRSF

... again

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SB plz

If we can rustle up another 4 non-nubs to rush it as quickly as possible, then you might be able to convince cel and I to come along (SHOE or RV, SHOE or RV, SHOE or RV...) - but what're the chances of that on Union?

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If Sham says the emp was good then you know he was good

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Oddly enough I side with Psydock on this, somewhat.

The emp was decent at keeping buffs up and his movement was good, but I still managed to tag him inside of 10 seconds when I got loose from the cage; when they switched to caging Shaman, I managed to nail the troller twice, with the emp standing next to him. The emp was decent, but I can't say I was particularly impressed.

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Oh god yes. Seriously yes.

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Phrases I never want to see Xanthus saying to Ravenswing: #7

But yes, for the love of God take Build Up with the above slotting - or 3 Hamidon Membrane Exposures if you have access to that kind of resource.

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So overall? it is certainly an advantage in a 2vs2, but by no means unbeatable.

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Note that trying to burn BFs only works if the duo with cage don't both have anti-mez powers - i.e. Clarity and CM.

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A team of one, and a little bit of luck, can sometimes be enough ...

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Don't forget the Chem and Bio nuke, and at least one Shivan.

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Where were the Masterminds last night?

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Not sure about everyone else, but I was sitting and watching until I got drafted in as sub, twice - on a different toon.

I just don't know that Masterminds are entirely viable for tournies - a severe lack of mobility, and in some cases range, severely hampers their arenability. I did pretty well with Anti in the last Squished, but it wasn't an experience I was rushing to repeat (summon, resummon, resummon, run like [censored], resummon).

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What happened? I d/c'd at the beginning of my second match and couldn't get back online!!

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Don't worry Jum, I was called on to sub in for you and picked up 5 kills - wasn't enough to keep Neo going through the tournie, sadly. (But let's face it, it's more than you'd have got. )

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As for caging, yes their annoying but to keep them going constantly and to a high standard for I think 9 fights, all lasting 30 minutes to one hour long.

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There's really nothing difficult about clicking one essentially autohit power (anything that punches through PB'd Fort might as well be autohit) against one of two opponents every minute or so. Trying to keep your teammate ID'd and SB'd between cages after he ran out of BFs - that takes some effort. There's nothing "high-standard" about it either - if anything, it reflects badly on the rest of the tournament which displayed a VERY high level of PvP. For what was a mediocre-at-best team (in all fairness) to win the tournament off the back of one power is a little sad, especially given the competition that was there.

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Yes...can we please bring 2*AT teams and NO cage.

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Completely in agreement, the Cage can't stay in a 2v2 environment. It's gone from being a power used well by support characters (like Decibellion, etc.) to being a "key" power (for some people) that demands support characters to feed it, which really slows down the fun and pace of the event. Looking forward to 2*AT teams in the future too.

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I like cages, and they are just as fair as any other power imo

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Just as fair as all the other near-autohit powers that can be made perma on one person, amirite? I don't believe there's a place for cages in a 2v2 environment - all that ended up happening last night was one team essentially admitting they couldn't take people in a fair 2v2, and having to make it 2v1 to even stand a chance. No idea how the other guys fared after I left, but I know Shaman (who I subbed in with) played an absolute bloody blinder of a 43 minute 5-man domination match in which I got to actually participate in for all of about 5 minutes - although in those 5 minutes I picked up 3 kills, Emp buffs, Fire Imps and my PvE build be damned - and then it was back in the cage until everyone watching got bored to tears and wished for God to nuke Test to spare us all the agony of having to play on against such a [censored] "tactic". Is it "fair" to use powers in the best/only way you know how? Maybe. It certainly doesn't make for good PvP though, and I'm damned certain it doesn't make for good PvPers.

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(well, got slowed into oblivion and couldn't do anything).

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Still not enough to make a full team on either side though and Pillboxes were all but forgotten.

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We had a full team villainside, and even had to turn people away at one point. The heroes in the zone certainly had enough for a full team at more than one point, but instead opted to try to solo the massing horde.

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Please, no forum pvp theorycraft

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Ahahaha, what's your entire post then?

Assuming that Web Envelope hits and the rest of your theoretical scenario works out as you describe it - why Fire? Sonic would give you far better ST damage, better stacked -Res, an uninterruptible attack chain without use of AoEs or snipes, a useful mez, and wouldn't have completely drained you of endurance by the time you finish your cycle.

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Not to mention rad costs, like, 385 times more END than /cold even with AM, so I don't get where this comes from.

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I've seen a Fire/Cold in action - hell, I've teamed with one quite regularly over the last few months. Without end buffs outside of HL in PvP, it's always verging on bottoming out.

It's always nice to see figures like "385 times more END" being thrown about when trying to justify a point.

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once you got 3 dam/acc 2 rech 1 end in blaze, fire blast and fire ball, it's pretty good

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And everyone has access to that many HOs? In addition to a theoretical PvP scenario, we get gifted with a theoretical perfect HO build - how wonderful.

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However, I wanted to point out that the AVs will NEVER go down unless there is a concentrated effort of taking them down.

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Our VG has taken down all the RV Hero GMs with 1 Brute, 2 Corrs and 2/3 Heavies.

It's really not as difficult as you make it out to be.