Sylph_Knight

I don't see how people keep misunderstanding what I'm typing.

I was describing what I feel the game SHOULD NOT be implying towards our characters. The context-neutral dialogue was referring to how I believe that the game should NOT assume details about our characters BEYOND our name and gender, which are interpreted based on A) What we type in for our character's names, and B) Our body type. Anything else should be left for obscurity.

I WAS NOT implying that there should be any system for the game to use to interpret variables beyond these. I WAS NOT saying the game should be COMPLETELY context-neutral with our characters.

What I WAS advocating that the writing stick with the basics, allowing us to make assumptions as we see fit.

Everything outside of our name and body type has such a wide range of interpretation, including the source of our Incarnate powers, that the game should disregard the notion of explaining the origin of those abilities as they pertain to us. Doing so only tramples on the creativity of the player.

When all is said and done, there is a distinct difference between simply having lore and forcing a character to be integrated with the lore. In a perfect world, we would be able to tailor variables to create more involving conversation chains. But I do not advocate such because it is not realistic, and such a system would be rife with its own limitations.

Perhaps I should have been more clear by what I meant with "context-neutral" since it was clearly misinterpreted to an extreme:

I am NOT referring towards your character's gender or name when used in conversation, but by any other details that do not correlate with direct variables plugged into your character upon creation.

I am referring to factors which can be interpreted: Super-Strength may not actually be a result of physical capability, but rather tactile-telekinesis for example. When the game goes through lengths to explain you, that's when the problems begin.

Again, the problem is not with the content but the presentation. The developers could have changed some dialogue and this problem would have remedied itself.

I definitely agree that the writers need to start creating context-neutral references to characters. Assuming they are new heroes or even incarnates, regardless of their abilities, tends to irk crowds who don't want their characters to fall under any assumptions or generalizations.

For example, I know a few women who play online games that will immediately correct someone in chat when they are mistakenly referred to by that person with "him/he". This is because they value that part of their personal identity even when a virtual avatar is involved. DISCLAIMER: Note that I did not say ALL Women, or even all the women I know who play online games, because such a declaration would be both stupid and false...

Please don't kill me.

I think the context is somewhat similar in this case, where there are a number of players who value their character's identity when referenced by NPCs and rather than wanting to BE referenced correctly, are just happy if they are NOT referenced mistakenly. Context-neutral is the winner in this case.

I think the only time this does not apply is when someone refers to how powerful / dangerous our characters are. And while I wouldn't use "powerful" to describe Batman in a physical sense, he is a "powerful" adversary simply because of what he is capable of.

I think the Developers could patch up 80% of this problem by adding one more paragraph of dialogue to Prometheus where he confesses that while most individuals who possess Incarnate-grade abilities are gaining them from the Well and are thus the generalized origin of all Incarnates (stereotypes, yo!), there are other sources of power that can grant powers on the same scale that, while they do feed back into the well because they are being utilized by Humans, they don't DRAW from it.

It could be further explained that the Well also significantly increases in strength when these new power sources are introduced. And as Wells themselves are some of the most ample and easily integrated hypernatural power sources in the universe due to their symbiotic nature, this explains how Battalion came upon the idea of consuming OTHER Wells to boost its own power.

And to which I respond - why, indeed? I certainly cannot and will not argue with the validity of that request.

But like current politics, it's easy to criticize decisions after we've seen their results. I won't argue with a focus on open-ended interpretation being a worthy goal, just bear in mind that the developers are probably more concerned about content, as content sells better to the masses than lore. I think they're just putting lore together to back the new content more or less. I'm sure there's a heavy creative process behind this, but I highly doubt that lore is a means to an end rather than the end in itself.

Still, advocating for less specific lore towards our characters' growth is definitely encouraged.

Again, I don't debate your actions, intentions or methods. I am simply recommending the means to work with what has already been provided for us. Campaigning for open-ended story threads has always been a worthwhile goal, and as the doppelganger story arcs showed us, the developers do listen to these concerns.

I do believe, however, that you and I share a very forceful debate methodology that tends to be misinterpreted by others as aggressive or crass. This unfortunately tends to draw a lot of counter-debate, which I think is part of the concern here.

I stand corrected, then. Thank you for correcting me.

As I mentioned earlier though. I think the most recent concerns are a result of hindsight - it's easy to debate something after it has been created or enacted. However, we should definitely advocate for the developers to learn from this or, better yet, expand the future lore to take broader possibilities into consideration and thus perform a soft-retcon of their standardized Incarnate-based insinuations for every character out there.

Per the above, I won't debate that and I apologize if it seemed as such. I have no qualms with their lore, and agree that when it applies to us specifically there should definitely be a softer approach on how this it is done - especially with regards to the Incarnate content. They have made obvious attempts (especially in regards to what KIND of Incarnate we represent, which is left to our interpretation) but again - there should be some lore added that deliberately states that we may actually have powers that are Incarnate-like in nature without actually drawing from the Well itself. Sadly, the story does seem to be veering in the opposite direction with the concept of Ascension.

Personally, my most troubling concern with any story content to date actually comes from one of the First Ward arcs. There is a brief period where your character becomes possessed, and this does not sit well with me. It also wouldn't make sense to characters that are already ghosts or have some kind of supernatural protection. I agree that it is very obstructionist, but thankfully those types of scenarios are quite rare in the game.

I have also never swallowed the Cape and Aura unlock arcs real well. Apparently our Auras come from some kind of device attached to our hearts? I care to differ. :P

*laughs* We had a slow day at work this morning so this was a good way to keep myself occupied as well.

Yes, that does seem to be problem. It's the glass half empty/full analogy all over again.

Bear in mind that Darren Wade also knows very little about your strengths and abilities, let alone your history. He knows OF you by association of your fame and past feats but clearly did not do his homework. This is made evident by the fact that he is so shocked by your ability to fight back even after he has stolen the powers of Statesman that he is forced into retreat.

Darren has no idea whether you have had past incarnations or not. He simply believes that a being of your stature simply MUST have one, perhaps furthering the evidence that his judgement is faulty. After all, Darren believes the choices he is making will ultimately benefit humanity as much as himself. Just as so many other villains like him, he fails to realize that there are factors outside of the scope covered by his schemes and is thus painfully short-sighted.

I can certainly appreciate the fact that no one wants to feel tethered to a system that defines their destination. Unfortunately that is the fault with a well-scripted setting - the more complex it becomes, the less freedom you possess.

All I can advise on the matter is, as a general rule, virtually every character created is ultimately beholden to the setting which they are a part of. As writers, we are used to being able to control the setting to fit our characters and this is where the conflict of interest with the Well of the Furies is taking place. I sympathize with you, but I don't see any solutions that would resolve this concern cleanly.

Just FYI, I have overheard that there was the exact opposite concern regarding the Incarnate system during the Going Rogue beta when it was first introduced. There was no lore to support it, leaving it too open-ended for the majority of the beta testers and there were complaints that resulted in the developers withdrawing it to address these concerns at a future date. Because of that we now have an opposing base to that stance.

Granted, I cannot vouch for the authenticity of this story however, as I had stopped playing the game for a few months during that period.

If it's any consolidation, try to look at it this way: The power of an Incarnate-grade ability might tie you to the Well of the Furies simply because it feeds off Human achievement, but the Well is still just "A" power source and not "THE" power source. Your Incarnate-grade power may not actually draw power from the Well, even if it feeds back into it.

Your magical sword is still powered by magic and your laser is still powered by batteries. Your accomplishments may feed into the Well, which is a power source that others can draw upon, but just because you have a power that is Incarnate-grade does not necessarily mean that you are getting it FROM the Well.

You can also interpret that Prometheus is not all-seeing and simply believes that just because you have Incarnate-grade abilities that you are drawing them straight from the wellspring of Human Potential itself. It is not a stretch to believe that an NPC is making assumptions and is, in fact, wrong. As for how this is interpreted in-game; if you bypass the Mender Ramiel missions and earn Incarnate XP for your Alpha slot, you could just assume that you have developed Incarnate-like capabilities in some way during your battles with beings that do actually harness power from the Well without yourself having developed any ties to the Well beyond feeding it your accomplishments as you always have (or haven't).

Also, something to chew on: there is something else that is faced in the next issue that "feeds" off another aspect of Human life, in a way that is very much the opposite of the Well of the Furies.

I don't mean to be judgmental, but if you're doing a Manticore TF then chances are you should have adequate buffs and support to make up for the loss. There are many situations in the game where you don't have to capitalize entirely on your own internal performance.

I actually have neither the Fighting pool or the Medicine pool. Alpha Cardiac (with its Resist secondary boost) and Destiny Rebirth (with its Regen buff) make excellent substitutes, especially when combined with Dull Pain's +Max HP.

I agree. 20-26 means this zone will be outleveled extremely quickly.

My solution:

Get the Archmage accolade for the Eye of the Magus and take the Rebirth destiny power. Grab the Herostats tool and use it to gauge your timer. When you hit the 10 second mark, hit Destiny and Eye of the Magus. Right after you crash, hit Dull Pain. Something would have to hit you very hard at that split second crash to kill you as Destiny almost guarantees you'll be around 500hp at the crash due to the Regen.

Both?

I've been murdering AVs long before I20. Most recently I defeated Numina and Lord Recluse as +0 AVs in I19 long before I added my latest batch of upgrades and Incarnate abilities. I also solo'd a Pylon during I18 as well. Let him roll.