SuperChris

First, I want to thank you again for these Top Issues posts. Communication is doubleplusgood.

Second, I'm glad to see the sound loop and invisble mobs fixed. I haven't been on the LRSF yet, but I'm glad FP are dropping rewards again, it'll make it worth doing once I get someone high enough level.

Also, I want to bend your ear a bit on the Fury PvP problem. I'd really like to hear if it something is being done to fix it... Maybe inr the next Top Issues post? Please?

Wish I could say I didn't see this coming.

Good luck.

Of course, if you're odd like me and attach a different title to every costume, you have redo your costume change keys everytime they make a change like this. Sigh.

I'm going to me very annoyed if they ever make it so you can't set gladiator names as titles.

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Future Design: During the 21 days you hold the Item, you are susceptible to losing your Item of Power in PvP combat.

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Up until this point you were very specific about the details, so maybe I'm just picking nits (or its just after lunch and I'm a bit sleepy)... But we are still talking about base raids, right? Or will be we able to put an IoP on the line in the arena (ante)? Or something else maybe?

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Losing your IoP's in PvP combat is an integral part of the design and of bases (otherwise, what good are secure plots and defense items).

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I'd also like to clarify a poitn about Instant Raids. They're not going away, correct?

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Also, 21 days?! What happened to the '3 months' plan you guys had in beta? Keeping an item for 3 weeks is not worth defending in my own opinion.

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There could be several reasons for this:

1. Faster turn around allows people to participate in the trial more frequently, thus more people get to participate in the content.
2. The 7 day window of opportunity allows you to run the trial more frequently, enabling you to acquire more IoPs.
3. The ability to get more IoPs makes the previously proposed 1% buff/IoP more desirable.
4. The 28 day reclaimation timer means that defending SGs can take breaks more frequently to prevent burnout.
5. Releasing the CoP trial before Scheduled Raids are fixed will allow people to determine if its worth the effort, farmable, etc. without being locked into the PvP element.

At this point, I'd be happy if they stabilized Instant Raids so my SG could give them a try. Our attempts so far have been... buggy.

A backflip emote?

O_O

Sweeeet

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Also there is bug with emotes acting as chat giving you spam lock.

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They know about it and its schedules to be fixed. All "silent" emote strings should get the fix. I assume that will include emotes with an audio component like slap and taunt.

We now return you to your normally scheduled thread.

Thanks for taking the time to write this Inspector6, it was a good read.

It seems we are of similar minds on EM/EA; the subtle killer that plays more like a graceful Stalker than one of those drooling oafs that run around screaming SMASH! all the time.

I was planning on writing an EM/EA guide once I got to 40, but I think I'll just link people to this instead.

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Is "Smith Barney" still in the investment business?

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I was thinking E-Trade, actually. Just saw a commercial for them last night...

I need to get some of my people together so we can thumb our noses at the PvPers as we dash from door mission to door mission. There's some good XP & prestige to be had there. And we'll probably get some use out of the medlab too.

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Thats great news but what is the size of it?

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Solarfox:
Based on the screen shot. The basic empowerment stations take up 1/4th of a square. The advanced ones take up 1 square.
So you could easily fit 2 empowerment stations, and 2 work tables in a single 2x2 room, as an example.

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Any people say I'm cynical. Geez.

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I don't "feel" cynical. I just see how they are being specific in their language for a reason. And honestly I REALLY don't want to have to save up for Advanced Mainframes and Advanced Generators. Thinking I might have to do that makes me sick.

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Oh come on, note the emoticon. Just a gentle "elbow" there. Nudge, nudge. Know what I mean? Know what I mean?

My stomach is churning over the cost of the 8x12 plot.

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Items. Plural.

[/ QUOTE ]Low-end...items. Last time I checks empowerment stations and salvage rack would count as "items." If you guys go on thinking you will NOT have to play control or power for the Lvl 2-3 items it is your own fault for failing at reading comprehension, not the Devs.

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Any people say I'm cynical. Geez.

Still, you could be correct. Except that the mistake would be assuming rather than earning an F in reading comprehension.

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Devs' idea of a small SG: seven members.

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This is a reasonable assumption based on the given info, however... those sort of numbers assume that no actual effort goes into making the base function. Get six other people, plop down a room, a couple items, boom. Seems too easy to me. That's basically like giving someone something for nothing.

I'm guessing the model is closer to 4-5, and here's why:
1) You have to work a little bit to get that extra smidgeon of prestige, which is fine because...
2) no salvage = no buffs, so you must put some effort into gathering salvage to get anything out of these options.

I think this is entirely do-able by 2 or 3 fairly dedicated players, especially if they get started on their base early in their careers. It may be more work than some people are willing to put into it, but you can't really factor laziness into models like this.

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But it seems we’re just talking semantics. In your “forest for the trees” example, I would label that incompetence. After all, it is the function of management to hold onto the Big Picture. If they lose sight of it… then they’re not earning their salaries.

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This thread has been about semantic for about 200 posts now...

Maybe Jack's big picture is different than yours? Anyway, Positron has posted actual numbers. I need to go take my heart pill before something bad happens. j/k

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Here's the current numbers in testing (subject to change):
Base Entry Room: Free
Workshop Room (2x2): 100,000p
Lowest Power Empowerment Station: 15,000p
Salvage Rack: 15,000p
Total Cost for working Salvage storage and a working Empowerment Station: 130,000 Prestige

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Uh... Thanks! I see the "subject to change" however, this looks like a very good start. My next series of questions (you knew there'd be more, right?):

What type of item is the Empowerment Station?
What type of item is the Salvage Rack?
Do either of these items take up the space of a crafting table (thus making it less useful for medium size SGs that haven't upgraded their plot)?
While I'm thinking of it, can we get aracen/tech versions of each?

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The answer is 42, it will cost 42 prestige to do all the things you need to do!

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But what is it we need to do?

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Seriously though, this thread is just ridiculous... It's nothing but a cyclical argumnet that will only end when things are put out there to be tested, so why doesn't everyone just chill and let's get back to PLAYING the game?

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Also stuck at work.

Chilling out will come at around 9pm tonight when my kid is soundly asleep and I can start playing catch up on my St. Patrick's day "celebrations" while electrocuting some Rularuu as I gather Kora. Wish there was a base portal to/from the Shard.

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I’m well aware of his explanation, but that only proves my point. If there was no deliberate deceit on his part, what we have left is stupidity and/or incompetence. I vote for incompetence, myself, because I don’t think Jack is stupid. As you said, “Does it effect powers in an incredibly dramatic way? Heck yes it does.” So, given the huge effect that ED had on powers, only a truly incompetent person could fail to realize that ED was a major change to powers.

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Incompetence is a very harsh word and one that I don't use lightly. Remember that Snickers commercial from a few years back? The one with the guidence counseler? "Gross incompetence, another sure sign of hunger." Man, I loved that commercial... And THAT was incompetence.

Maybe I've just had too many bad experiences with management, but more often than not people in positions of authority fail to see the forest for the trees, as it were. I almost expect it anymore. Talk of procedural changes absolutely makes me cringe.

But if anything, its shortsightedness on his part. More than that though, he is at fault for not listening to Pos' (or was it pohsyb?) concerns about the change.

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(In my opinion, of course.)

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Opinions - one more thing that everyone has.

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Its being included so that small SGs can have something functional.

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Yes, exactly. It's there to make bases have a POINT. And making bases USEFUL is so crucial to getting the whole base idea back on track that they'd be crazy not to make the empowerment stations easily available.

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Whoa. Hey. Not really disagreeing with you. Not even questioning their intelligence, compentence, or anything.

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Me:
I don't expect these empowerment stations to be very expensive. I imagine that with a week or two of semi-dedicated play (10-15 hours in total), even a one person SG could afford the basic station. That's just my guess though. In the long run, it will be most costly in terms of salvage consumption if it is used regularly.

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I just want to know what info they're using to construct their SGs models. Since that information is not forthcoming, and probably will not be (for various reasons), this whole debate is pretty pointless.

We know that the player base expects the world of the Dev team, but what are the expectations that the Devs have of the players? Heh, I'd put money on the notion that threads like this are on their list...

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My point is that there is no reason to suppose that the Devs have excluded even the smallest SGs from their definition of 'small'. You're acting as if a 'small' SG had to have some kind of a minimum level of membership.

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But that's just the question, isn't it? What do they want to encourage with SGs? The membership bonus cuts off at 15. So is that their baseline? Do they assume that most SGs have reached that 15 member mark (padding the SG with alts)? Or do they think expect membership to be higher? Or lower? We just don't know. Everything we are talking about here is pure speculation and entirely subjective because we don't know what their model represents.

That said... I don't expect these empowerment stations to be very expensive. I imagine that with a week or two of semi-dedicated play (10-15 hours in total), even a one person SG could afford the basic station. That's just my guess though. In the long run, it will be most costly in terms of salvage consumption if it is used regularly.

Another thing I do expect is that these stations will be hot items for base raids because their buffs last so long (essentially until you're defeated). Because base raids are essentially non-existant at this point (with a few noteworthy exceptions), there's not enough data to look at how this is going to affect all aspects of the game.

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You're also acting as if it's important that these new features should be worked for - that whole 'you don't value it unless it cost you' line. I don't think that's the design philosophy here at all. This is supposed to be a boost for small SGs, not a new sort of carrot to keep small SGs grinding away.

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I tend to agree with that, except that it is a carrot for small SGs, in a way.

Its being included so that small SGs can have something functional. Something to keep them interested in holding the group together instead of being absorbed into a large group. Something to keep them from needing to beg a buff from passing defenders/controllers/corruptors before they go back into the mission to fight the boss that just laid them out.

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Statesman says, “We’re done making major changes to powers.” Then two months later ED is pushed through the test server and onto live in record time. Either Jack’s previous statement was deceitful, or it showed some serious stupidity and/or incompetence.

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Or in this case... a misperception on his part. That's his story anyway. As shady as it seems to some, I'm willing to take him as face value on this score because it sure wouldn't be the first time I've seen someone in management make change to poilcy, procedure, etc. without fully considering its impact.

Remember, that in ED, no numbers on the base powers were changed to facilitate the revision. In the mind of a manager like Jack, thet're not changing the powers. Its an entirely different system that is being adjusted. Does it effect powers in an incredibly dramatic way? Heck yes it does.

In the worst case scenario, its like someone saying they have nothing "on their desk" about such and such a policy change, when in fact they're holding the document outlingin the change in their hand. That's being actively deceptive. But I don't think that is what we saw with ED.

Part of the problem with developing policy/technology in a closed environment is that you don't get the critical eye of the consumer/user to point out flaws in the design. What's worse though, is when you get the feedback and refuse to change anyway because you've set a course or have a "vision."

Until we see the I7 base additions hit the TS, we just won't know, apparently. -shrug-

You know, the funny thing about this thread is that we're stuck dealing with completely subjective terms.

We really need to answer the following question: What does the development team think a "small SG" consists of? Without that information, we'll never know what the relative values of things are supposed to be.

In my own case:

My main's SG would consider 100k to be fairly expensive; the purchase would probably be worth discussing with the group. If it were 50k or less, we wouldn't even bat an eye about getting one. If the empowerment station is actually really good, we'd probably buy it regardless of the cost. Otherwise, we'd just bank the prestige for rent and our holy grail: the 8x12 plot.

One of our coalition members has a small, 2 room decorative base (they have 2 or 3 members). They went AV hunting with us last night and were tickled pink that they earned about ~30k prestige to further decorate their base. They might be able to use something like the empowerment station, but probably it'd be more useful to them to save the prestige for rent and decorations. If the cost more than, say, 20k... they'd probably never even consider it (even if it did give an excellent bonus).

Conversely, my villain's VG has about 8-10 extremely active members. Several people have taken their characters (sometimes multiple characters) from the single didgets to 40 in SG mode (that works out about 400k-450k prestige each). The base is highly functional with very little decoration. They have an upgraded plot with just about everything you could want in a non-PvP base, including a raid teleporter, just in case we decided to do an instant raid (whatever those are called). If/when they shift to a PvP focus, they will probably get one of these stations for use during raids. And it will be a drop in the bucket for them.

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Making the buffs be Inspiration or Click-power like is just ASKING for abuse. Besides, that's the type of stuff the Invention System should deal with.

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So... Inventions are something else? I'm pretty sure (okay, I hope) I'm not the only one that was confused on that count. Are we still expecting to see inventions in I7 or will it be put off to a later issue?

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Empowerment stations are instant buffs. You are bathed in radiation/magic/etc. on the spot and get a bonus to your travel speed/lethal resistance/attack speed/endurance recovery/knockback protection/whatever you need at the time, right then and there.

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See, that description makes sense, but it still doesn't tell us much about the item. Does it eat salvage each time you use it? Where can you place it? Do we have access to all the different buffs or do we have to add Aux items for that?

Personally, I'm not convinced there will be a substantial benefit outside of base raids (especially factoring in travel), but ok. Now that I have more info, it sounds like what I was envisioning.


You know, giving us the bigger picture would really help us out here. I know you guys are trying to get everyone jazzed about I7, but not having all the info is bound to get people fired up in the wrong way.

Can we get a consolidated list of the features you've publicly mentioned? Preferably sooner rather than later...

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Empowerment station buffs are currently set at 15 minute durations (far longer than any other non-toggle buff in the game). They are bestowed on you as soon as you craft them, and last 15 minutes from there. The idea is to have enough time to get you past that sticky part of a mission that was giving you trouble.
15 minutes is the time we are going to the Training Room with. If it turns out that that's not enough time for you to Empowerment Buff, get to the mission, and get you through the tough fight, then it will be increased.

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Of all the things coming in Issue 7, this was the one that I was most intrigued by. But... Wow. My interest in this particular upgrade just went through the floor, the basement, and posisbly as far down as the mole king's realm...

My misunderstanding, I suppose. I thought these were supposed to be actual temporary powers. You know, like the ones you get from mission arcs, Siren's Call, etc.

I envisioned powers like the Siren's Call grenades (6 uses), the D-Drops (~4 uses), Snowbeast (1 use), melee attacks with a 1 day (or maybe 2-3 hour) lifetime, and so on. Stuff that's useful, but not game breaking (certainly not as cool as the Drops or beast), and ultimately very expensive if you use them frequently.

Temporary buffs are much less worthwhile, especially if we're burning Salvage to get them. I did envision a Buffing Station being added at some point, but not like this.

Positron, maybe I just don't grok where you guys are coming from... How is this supposed to help small SGs? Maybe a better question is, what does the development team consider a "small SG"? Are we talking about 4 members? 14? 40?

If someone had just told me we were getting stations that could turn salvage into buffs with a 15 minute timer, I'd think, "Isn't that a bit long for a base raid-oriented buff?"

My humble request: If you're going to put it on a timer instead of a fixed number of charges/uses, please make it from time of activation.

* Many power generated Sound FX now fade out after 10 seocnd or so.

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^^;; no worries, this wasn't done for i6 due to the feeling that heroes needed it less with the trams and a lack of time in the rush to put CoV out for halloween. Positron told me it was already done and we'll be seeing it hero side soon.

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And I doth say, "w00t!"