Stillhart

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Exploits would be an exception to that concept. AFK farming PVP recipes really goes against the reason they were added in the game. I didn't need anyone posting about it in here to figure out how to do it and I doubt anyone who wanted one and had more than one account needed to be told about it.

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Well you're smarter than I am, because I didn't know about it until someone mentioned it and explained it to me. And seriously, I think you're giving players WAY too much credit for figuring out this stuff on their own.

But I do admit, exploits are exploits and will be targeted. I just think they're shooting themselves in the foot here in how they "fixed" this one.

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They just want them to not be farmable - drop rate, availability, and price be damned.

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What they should do is make them available to be bought somewhere ... increase supply = decreased profit = less farming. Only way to stop farming is to make it not as profitable.

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They aren't looking to stop farming though they would love it if people would. They are simply looking to make it harder and thereby reduce it without increasing the supply to do so.

They want them to be rare but they want most of them to be earned "in the proper way".

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I think that the level of farming for PVP IOs pretty much forced this change. The sitting ducks in bloody bay usign rez pez from the vendors and afk arena farming would be the obvious ones that were pretty high profile in a few threads here.

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I hate to nitpick part of your post here, but aren't you guys always claiming that nothing we do in this backwater forum channel is gonna make the devs change anything, that it's below their radar, etc etc? Wasn't this repeated several times in this very thread a week or two ago?

The amount of farming couldn't have been THAT bad...there were still almost no PO's on the market and the prices were still sky high.

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Why not just return the rules to the way they were? What really was the reason for the change? Was there too many PVP IOs on the market?

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This is pretty much the heart of the issue IMO.

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Even if that does happen (and I seriously have my doubts that it ever will) I'm guessing it will be a long time before we see any new PvP projects with Going Rogue and power customization on the way. I have a feeling we'll be stuck with this ill implemented PvP IO drop system for the long run.

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I agree. And to quote the great economist John Maynard Keynes, "In the long run, we're all dead."

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They just want them to not be farmable - drop rate, availability, and price be damned.

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What they should do is make them available to be bought somewhere ... increase supply = decreased profit = less farming. Only way to stop farming is to make it not as profitable.

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They aren't looking to stop farming though they would love it if people would. They are simply looking to make it harder and thereby reduce it without increasing the supply to do so.

They want them to be rare but they want most of them to be earned "in the proper way".

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I see your point, so this isn't directed at you. But this is a BAD case of "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink." People aren't gonna pvp if they don't want to pvp. People want the drops tho. This is just gonna piss them off.

I see the dilemma they think they're in...they want people to pvp so they give cool pvp drops, but then people farm teh drops and they're still not pvping. That should be a big neon sign that they're doing it wrong. In a game about super heroes, where people constantly complain about anything that isn't superhero-like (e.g. the market), do they really think pvp is just gonna take off?? The goal of getting more people into pvp is stupid...that's not what the game is about and it's not their strength...bad strategic move. But they've already put their foot in it with the PO's and they can't take em back. They need to be trying to deal with them separately from the issue of getting more people into pvp.

So yeah, maybe they just don't want any more of those in game and they're hoping they die off a slow death. *shrug* It may sound like hubris or something, but I don't think that just because they're a video game company etc etc that they've necessarily thought thru all their decisions before implementing them. I've seen way too many MMO's screwed up by the nerf bat to give the devs the benefit of the doubt.

Okay well then. I still don't think they're as good as purples since they bonuses they give aren't as good (neither the regular effect nor the set bonuses) yet they're about to be much more rare than purples.

Some off-the-cuff math: Old drop rate ~1/100 kills, ~50kills per 30 mins = ~1 drop per hour. New drop rate ~1/100 kills, ~5 kills per 30 mins = ~10 hours per drop. This assuming you're fighting one person.

Assuming you kill at 30 secs per kill, you could have 10 people (or more, but 10 is the theoretical minimum to hit cap) help you to get back to the old maximum drop rate of one per hour.

This assumes you're in a controlled environment where you really are getting 1 kill per 30s. If you're in a pvp zone, things are far less controlled and that rate seems particularly...optimistic. This cancels out the fact that there are (in theory) more than 10 people in the pvp zone at a time. In addition, you have to hope that nobody killed them within the last 5 mins.

I just don't see the supply doing anything but dropping drastically. These are already rarer than purples and, tho similar and better than normal set IO's, they're not as good as purples with their Superior bonuses. My point is still valid I think. Why do the devs want the drop rate so low?

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Nope; full level 1 exemplar!

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This directly contradicts what I was told before. Can anyone please confirm?

And if so, why aren't they purple...or even some new rarer color?

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tested and double tested by marketeers yesterday.

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Haha, no offense but I meant someone BESIDES you. I already know what you think about it. :P

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Point 1- Yes they are. At least the Heal set and one other offer 7.5% recharge in PVE and since they act just like purples you get that 7.5 always.

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I was under the impression that they acted different from normal ones by TURNING OFF if you exemped at all, which made it pointless to farm anything below 50.

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Nope; full level 1 exemplar!

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This directly contradicts what I was told before. Can anyone please confirm?

And if so, why aren't they purple...or even some new rarer color?

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Point 1- Yes they are. At least the Heal set and one other offer 7.5% recharge in PVE and since they act just like purples you get that 7.5 always.

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I was under the impression that they acted different from normal ones by TURNING OFF if you exemped at all, which made it pointless to farm anything below 50.

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There's been a lot of good discusion in this thread but I really don't think anyone addressed my point yet. With these changes, PO's will be much much more rare than before. We can only assume that this was the devs' intent, but why bother?

1 - They're not THAT good, compared to say purples. Why should they be more rare?
2 - Prices on the market will only skyrocket (oh how I kick myself for selling that IO for ONLY 600m now!!) if you can even find one.
3 - Farmers will still farm but with different strategies and they'll make a lot more money doing it.

I just don't see any of these changes as positive. What is the intended positive outcome of these changes?

I understand your points about not crying for the farmer. I understand that you think these shouldn't be farmable. But I don't think anyone has argued against the fact that the supply will sharply decrease.

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Im still confused exactly how the "rep-timer" works. I saw it mentioned that the timer resets if you kill someone again within 5 minutes. But others say it does not ?

Also how does this affect a team ? If teammate A defeats Opponent A, then teammate B defeats Opponent A, what happens then ?

Sorry for my confusion I just never realized there was a "rep-timer" system in place to begin with, much less what its going to mean in arena.

Thanks !

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Lots of us are confused. We'll find out shortly after it goes live. For now, I'm just glad they're going back in the game. I'll figure out how to get rich off it later. :-D

I'm confused. Do the devs want more or less PVP IO's than before i15? Because it seems like they're going to be getting a TON less with this change. From looking at how many were for sale, they were more rare than purples before i15...I thought they'd want to see more of them around since they're only orange and not purple.

Fix is on the test server, with some not-so-fun changes as well.

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makes sense to me. you kill people in zone then you kill another person etc.. the timer will rarely kick in. in arena farming you're screwed. Elegant

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An elegant way to prevent arena farming, true, but counter-productive IMO. Sure, zone drop rates will increase slightly (I think 5-10 minutes is a VERY long time for that, especially ifi t resets on another death!) but arena drops go down to almost nothing. The net will be a decrease in the pvp recipe drop.

Something tickled my brain here for a sec tho. Are you sure the timer resets if they're killed again before it's up? I read something in this very thread about a guy farming in the pvp zones using wakies and getting a ton more kills per hour. Oh wait, I guess the pvp io drops weren't tied to rep-valid kills at all before?

I think about an hour's testing in the arena should clarify this one way or the other. Anyone with access to the test server wanna take one for the team?

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# Fixed PvP rewards to function once again. Now, influence, inspirations, and other normal rewards occur on every PvP kill, while PvP IO recipes can only be rewarded on rep-valid kills.

# Fixed rep-validation to function in arenas, even though it doesn't give you any reputation in arenas.

# Also lowering the rep timer from 10 minutes to 5 minutes.

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OK I get it now, you only get rep once every 5 minutes if you kill before then the timer gets reset. this means only 6 kills per arena match can generate PVP IOs in a 1vs1

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I guess I'm not familiar with this rep-validation timer then. From what you say, I get the impression that continuously killing someone in the arena will result in only 1 chance for a drop since all the other kills reset some timer? Further, if you wait 5 mins between kills (let's say 5 mins and 10 seconds to be safe) you only get 5 kills per arena match that can potentially drop an IO? And the drop rate is in the neighborhood of 1 in 75-100 according to my testing...this would mean that PvP IO's get even rarer than they already are. This seems counter-intuitive to me.

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# Fixed PvP rewards to function once again. Now, influence, inspirations, and other normal rewards occur on every PvP kill, while PvP IO recipes can only be rewarded on rep-valid kills.

# Fixed rep-validation to function in arenas, even though it doesn't give you any reputation in arenas.

# Also lowering the rep timer from 10 minutes to 5 minutes.


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Drastic cut back on the rate of dual box farming.

I would expect this to go live fairly fast, maybe even tomorrow to keep the decks clear, its all bug fixes.

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Maybe I'm reading it wrong but it looks like they're DOUBLING the effective drop rate by dropping the timer from 10 to 5 minutes. That's great news, since it's gonna take a while for the market to get down to equilibrium price and there are still relatively few pvp farmers.

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New patch on Test, drop bug fixed. You may all return to your homes.

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Any thoughts on how long it usually takes to get from test to live?

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So the cool kids should roll 40-44 then? And there is no additional chaff added?

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Gold Roll Chart
According to this, you're also getting Edict of the Master, Impervium Armor and Gift of the Ancients. If you drop to 35-39, you also add the Kinetic Combat 3-way and Entropic Chaos 3-way. Honestly, I'd say it's worth going down to 35-39 for KC.

Then again, if I were to be thorough about it, I'd price out all the recipes, average them out and see how much my average ticket value changes (not forgetting that 35-39 is cheaper than 46-50!).

But wait! I remember reading something about how the recipes weren't equally random, but weighted based on some vague statistic that the devs haven't released. Am I remembering that right? If so, an "average" isn't gonna tell you much more than going with the gut...

Okay so I was talking about Gold rolls on vent the other day and we were talking about which level to roll (assuming the char is level 50). I said you wanted to roll 30-34 or 35-39 because you're locking yourself out of some good recipes if you roll 46-50 (you're also paying more tix per roll!). This started a train of thought that got me wondering what the most valuable gold rolls are and which ones you'd actually be missing out on.

So my question to you is, what are the 5 most valuable (strictly inf value) recipes? I'd be curious to see which would be missed out upon by rolling 46-50.

Off the top of my head, just from looking at the wiki page, I'd say the Miracle proc and Kinetic Combat 3-way are the two big ones that you'd be missing.

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My current mini-obsession is finding severely undervalued recipes, stuff with low-ish incoming supply that's been selling for 5,000,000+ with zero for sale. I put in a bunch of bids for the going rate, then re-list them at a ridiculous, comically huge markup.

For extra eeeebil, I wait until I've stockpiled a bunch before I unveil what they're actually 'worth'.

So far its been a gold mine. Anything halfway decent in this game with 0 for sale is drastically undervalued. Some players absolutely will pay multiples of the 'last 5' price for the convenience of having it NAO, even if that means dropping 20 million on something that's only 'worth' 5.


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Interesting that you should mention this, I found one of these niches the other day and have been considering whether it's worth my while to fill up slots with buy orders on this one item. I'm thinking yes.

I got a recipe from a gold roll that was relatively meh at first glance. However, upon further examination of the market, it seemed there were NONE for sale at any level but 50. So I put mine up for 10m where last 5 were in the 1-2m range and it was gone within hours. Now I'm kicking myself for not posting higher. I may have to exploit this niche for a bit and then smack my niche up when I break a bil.

To the OP: I prefer a mix of low margin/high turnover and high margin/low turnover. High margin for me is 5mil+ profit per slot. Low margin is 1mil or less per slot. Keep in mind that you should be thinking "per slot" not "per item".

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haw!

must have been during my hiatus, I'm fairly sure I'd remember something that naughty. =P

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I take full responsibility for coining the term...half crafting, half flipping.

To the OP, check out FourSpeed's guide for getting your bankroll going. Worked very well for me. Short version: Buy common IO recipes for cheap and sell them to an NPC vendor for profit. The guide goes into more detail on how to spot your target price for "cheap" etc.

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The upcoming 2XXP weekend is going to be very interesting. Very interesting indeed.

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This will be my first 2xXP weekend in game. What kinds of trends should I expect and where should I put my money for guaranteed bucks?

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i dont car about people taking holidays off....however...today was NOT a holiday..tommorrow is..and yes im working it.

with a exspansion,new issue and tons of new bugs to squash... frankly they should all be at work today. even the banks and post offices were open..give me one GOOD reason why their not at work and ill retract it.

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It's times like this when you have to take a deep breath, count to 10 and repeat after me: "It's only a game. It's only a game. It's only a game." Ahhhh....doesn't that feel better?

Back on topic, I sold my jackpot for 600m but most of my other ones haven't sold yet, even tho they're priced comparable to all the others on the market. Not sure how other people are moving so many, and at a profit.

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I vote for "Button pusher"

You could always get "that bird" from the Simpsons to push the button for you while you do something else! :P

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Are you referring to Albert the Dunking Dunk from high school science class? I'd probably just make a robot with a photoreceptor to make sure ti always gets pushed at the right time.

I don't think it's a matter of risk and reward. I think it's a matter of fun vs boring. Killing something that fights back (however futile the attempt), moving around to different areas, using different skills based on the situation, etc etc VS standing in one spot spamming certain skills or even just standing there while pets do all the work. Obviously playing the game the way it was meant to be played is more entertaining.

Sure, you're at no risk of dying either way, but one is more engaging and distracting and the other is repetitive and boring. For some people, the reward is more than just the drops, for others it's measured purely in inf/prestige/salvage/recipes/etc.