Steel_Shaman

I swore I was done with this thread but I just can't let it go.
So, here goes.....

LRSF, STF, and MO SF's.
That's about the ONLY content in this game I can think of that could even be truly called hard.

So why does it matter so much to you? Seriously, I want to know. CoH is a really fun game, but the overwhelming majority of its content just isn't hard enough to justify your concerns about team efficiency.

Adeon, wasn't it you that told me on the Blaster forum to give a Traps/AR a try when I was considering AR/Dev? Well I did and he hit 13 last night. You were right, he's very fun.

If I misremembered something someone else said as something you said, sorry about that. I disagree with you, and I don't think you and I are going to be able to reach any sort of consensus.

You dismissed my entire point of view as irrelevant just because it was different and were more than a little mocking about it, so yeah I'm gonna get a little irritated. You really shouldn't be surprised at the reaction. If you openly mock someone it's likely to provoke them. And then following up with "learn to read"? Wow.

I have found this entire thread irritating from start to finish. That probably means I should bow out now and just stop reading it before I really do fly off the handle.

To borrow your own phrase: "oh goody this rebuttal again."
It's a game, it's not calculus. Stalkers are not gimped. They are single target specialists in a game where most players focus on AoE. That does not make them useless. In your opinion it does, but your opinion is not an objective fact.

But please do enlighten me. Show me the single target DPS of a stalker compared to a scrapper. And I can tell you right now, there better be one HELL of a difference to justify calling the entire Stalker AT completely useless. That's my whole point: they do sufficient damage to NOT "bring down" the team.

But the folks like yourself insist that because that damage is not "OMG massive AoE" or includes "OMG massive debuffs" the entire AT is completely pointless and shouldn't be invited ever if another AT is available. I call hogwash on that argument.

You are making the mistaking of vastly underestimating the usefulness of the Stalker ability to almost instantly eliminate very dangerous targets.

And the only actual competition taking place is in the minds of people who take min/maxing team composition far too seriously.

There is one and only one criteria that I ever consider: is the team makeup allowing my teammates and I to have fun? If the answer is yes, I don't care if the team is 7 stalkers and a petless MM.

Really none of this "well that AT contributes more mathematically" matters AT ALL to me. It only matters to some people because they want it to matter for themselves. Which is fine, that's how they have fun. I only take issue with it when it directly impacts someone else's ability to play the AT they want. In this case, Stalkers.

I'll say it again: if the team is moving at a good pace, and no one is causing any problems, what's the point of worrying over who mathematically makes the most contribution? I was in a pug team the other day and I guarantee you my Brute could have solo'd every mission we did. But we all still had fun.

So I had a slight change of plans when inspiration struck me on the way home last night. I did create both characters. The blaster, however, is Archery/Devices and the Defender is Traps/Assault Rifle. I played the blaster last night and found him to be a ton of fun. Tonight I'll try the Defender. Thanks again to everyone for all the helpful replies.

I didn't realize Traps had been proliferated to Defenders. That does sound interesting. I think I'll probably make one of each then (blaster and defender) and see which one survives.

I really hope it doesn't take that long to side switch. I have quite a few villains I'd like to move over to Paragon, but to be honest if it takes 4-8 weeks to make the complete transition per character, I'll probably wind up re-rolling them instead. It sounds like it would actually be quicker.

I guess we'll find out when Open Beta starts.

Thank you Grey Pilgrim. You much more eloquently said the point I was trying to convey a couple pages back. The game's content (for the most part) doesn't require specific team makeups, so why the heck not bring a stalker? It's not like their attacks heal the mobs, but the way some folks in this thread talk you'd think they did.

You've missed my point.
My point is: who cares that a Dom can hold that Sapper instead of outright killing him? If the team is capable of chugging right along just fine with a Stalker instead of a Dom/Corr/Brute/MM/Pink Pony in that team slot, it doesn't matter. People keep talking like Stalkers make absolutely no contribution at all because they don't make the contribution they want them to make. That simply isn't true.

Define what you mean by useful please.

If the Stalker is taking out the high priority threats and also contributing to the overall success of the team by doing additional damage to the other mobs, what's the problem? So what if said Stalker doesn't put half the spawn at half life or give everyone Fulcrum Shift? If the team is moving at a reasonable pace and no one is dying, what is the problem?

The game is not balanced around fighting +3 x8 though. It is balanced around +0 x0. It is also not balanced around IO's, Purples, Temp Powers, or whatever else the gurus agree upon is the correct way to play. The game assumes standard difficulty settings and SO's. That's it. Anything above and beyond that is completely unnecessary. So if an AT performs properly at the base difficulty, then there is nothing wrong with the AT. It's just that simple.

I have tanked an SF on my Stalker. There's absolutely nothing wrong with the AT.

My thoughts exactly. I primarily play Doms (well ok I do occasionally log on a Brute, we all have our guilty pleasures). Because of this I have a special hatred of the PToD that many of my online friends can't understand. It may take me a while depending on how long it actually takes to switch sides, but eventually not one of my Dom's will remain in the Rogue Isles. And I will never start one there again.

Point taken, and my apologies if I offended. I've edited the post to remove the inflammatory comment. My reason for thinking Blizzard's decision is a bad one is simple, due to something that happened in my guild while I was playing WoW:

We had a member that we discovered was more than a little unstable. He would routinely sign into Vent and start spouting some pretty unusual stuff (mostly regarding real world politics). He eventually got so disruptive the guild leader banned him from Vent. This led to a firestorm in guild chat and the person being kicked from the guild. Now imagine if that individual had access to the full real names of guild members. He would know from casual conversation what cities we lived in too. My real name plus the city I live in would be enough to track me down right to my front door via internet searches, or at the very least call me on the phone.

Making player names publicly available to anyone is just a bad idea imho. It opens up the potential for a whole world of problems that one would think Blizzard would want to stay away from.

Edited to add: I just tested my theory. Not only did searching for my name and city on WhitePages.com yield my address (with a map to my front door) and phone number, it also yields the full names of both of my parents, neither of whom has lived with me in years. The search also lists the last 3 cities I've lived in (I've been at my current address for 14 years, but the others are there.) So um, yeah, I don't think I'll be playing WoW ever again.

Hehe, what Klaw is referring to is the Rikti Mothership. Taking it out is a raid activity taking several teams of players that have to coordinate their actions.

And you probably won't make it to the Mothership itself. Most likely the pylons will take exception to a level 30 wandering by.

Edited to add: CoH is different from other MMO's in that we don't (currently) have an official end game. Things I strive for on various characters:

1) Grouping with friends.
2) Developing an uber IO'd out build.
3) Badge hunting
4) Completing all the TF's.
5 Farming for money (see #2 above).
6) Completing story arcs I missed on the way to 50.

I'm sure there are other things, but I'm tired. Yay for summer head colds. I've always thought of CoH as more "self directed" than other MMO's, which is part of its appeal to me.
All that being said, we will be getting an "official" end game added with the Going Rogue expansion, due out in about 6 weeks.

I confirmed on my Tanker this evening that the new costume change emotes also do not work with any of the Ice Armor toggles running.