Steampunkette

Two things. First your character was never TOLD about it. It was implied in the biography, nothing more.

Second: Don't ever call Cole that. I've never thought of him as a hero, much less -my- hero. That's pretty mean of you. =-(

I definitely agree that all paths have -SOME- level of heroic nature to them.

The following descriptions describe PCs, not NPCs or contacts.

The Wardens are trying to stop evil and save people... Pretty much only people who sympathize with them, but they do try to save them. They are forced to do some things that will get people killed, however, to accomplish their goals.

The Crusaders ostensibly have a good goal: Freeing Praetoria from the grip of tyranny. They just go about it in the most awful way possible; Killing civilians rather than combatants to prove that Cole can't protect his people.

The Power Loyalists are out for fame and fortune, but they're more than happy to help people along the way. Some even want to help people and pick up fame and fortune as very nice bonuses. Though they are willing to let some evil go unpunished to maintain their status.

The Responsible Loyalists are also, ostensibly, interested in helping people and protecting the civilians. But they, too, are forced to allow some evils to thrive and let good people suffer to protect larger groups of people.

Wardens: Expose the Truth.
Responsibles: Save those you can.
Crusaders: Fight the Tyrant.
Powers: Make the front page with your heroic acts.

All of them -can- be noble individuals when viewed from the right angle. And all of them can be vilified.

Wardens: Start Riots.
Responsibles: Support the Tyranny.
Crusaders: Blow it all up.
Power: Do whatever it takes.

So yeah. In some ways I -really- like Praetoria! in others I hate it. But you can play an ostensibly heroic figure or Villainous figure in any of the paths. A Warden can be out to cause chaos, rather than save people. A Crusader can be interested in taking out a Tyrant. A Responsible can be a Stormtrooper. And a Power Loyalist can be a hero in the right place at the right time. A Warden can be a spy, getting messages to the good guys. A Crusader can be a Monster interested in destruction. A Responsible can be a good cop on a corrupt police force. and a Power Loyalist can be out for fame with no regard for who he steps on along the way.

I love that aspect. The part I hate is the instant polarization to the Resistance Cause some people have that blinds them to anything but a few cliches.

=-3

-Rachel-

My only worry is that the animations will get incredibly repetitive. Especially with that many grenades being flung around. How about dropping Flashbang for...

Covering Fire: Similar animation to full auto, AoE (Cone) Foe hold. Animation for the hold is enemies ducking down in the batsmashreact pose, more or less, while you coat the area in lead.

-Rachel-

And that's where you're wrong.

You've got the information into their hands. Congratulations. That's all you -can- do. What they -do- with that data is their job. They don't need to talk to the PvPers more in order to find out what's wrong. They know. Now they just need to take time to fix it. Time scheduled by their officers.

All that's left to do for the playerbase is wait. Taking it to the forums won't do anything at this point.

-Rachel-

Yaaaaaaaay!

Also the whole "Incestual Family Ties" thing was retconned out, so the girlfriend/granddaughter doesn't apply.

But yeah... I honestly wish there were two more paths for the Responsibles and Wardens.... Take out the worst of the Praetors. Not Cole (Since he needs to be in place for future content) and not KILLING them (since they need to be around for future content) but beating the living snot out of them and having them hospitalized for the remainder of your time in Praetoria if you're a Responsible, or getting them into BIG trouble with Cole if you're a Warden.

As for the other argument going on in the thread... What drives a man neutral? Lust for gold, power, or is he just born with a heart full of Neutrality?


-Rachel-

Simplest and best possible I can suggest for you to ensure you get the "Right" form of feedback to the Devs.

Make a website. You can get a little "Freebie" site from any number of providers and toss up a few pages of information, numbers, reasoning, and other information without it being ruined by the people who just shout "i12plzkthx" or cross-contamination from people who don't PvP.

Get together with the PvP community and discuss what needs to change. Not just your cadre of friends, but ALL the PvPers, get together combat data from all the thousands of logs you guys have surely got, anecdotal evidence, testimonials, get some of the more mathematically minded and creative individuals to put it into spreadsheets and graph data.

Get a handle on what the variables are and show what happens when each changes. Offer suggestions for alternatives to DR and auto-resistances in PvP that balance the classes out, rather than making Arena PvP the only way to PvP a "squishy" without getting insta-ganked.

Make a listing of common tactical actions (Spike damage, aggro management, force movement through effects or baiting, etc) show how tactics should and can win a fight beyond what bare numbers can do.

Then load it up onto the site with an easy to navigate index and link the Devs to it, then post a link of it in the PvP forums to get some feedback on what you've got, see if anyone can find flaws or make suggestions.

And bam. You've suddenly got an easily referenced and cataloged argument for PvP revamps to give to the devs wrapped up in a bow, making all of their work easier by far, since the data is provided. Toss on a few exclaimers to the site that you relinquish all data and suggestions on the site to Paragon Studios for use as they see fit to cover the legal bases.

Isn't that far better than paying a Dev to sift through all the forums trying to find useful information under all the facepalms and "lolwut" posts? Heck! Put a Sign In Page on it so players can put their Global Handle to it, to show solidarity and back it up so the Devs know that the PvP playerbase is behind the information and changes you offer. Not a petition, mind you, but a symbol of acceptance.

Link me to it, once it's done, and I'll gladly toss @Steampunkette onto the list.

-Rachel-

Hah! He would find me wary prey! XD

'Cause... Y'know... I'd still tear apart the Resistance (mostly the Crusaders, but lots of the Wardens) for what they've done to the innocent citizens.

Maybe not put to death (Except the Crusader Contacts who would be put to death almost to the last) but definitely imprisonment or banishment for their crimes.

-Rachel-

I think at this point they've moved away from the low hanging fruit, with the Dev team explosion and all... But yeah. I get what you mean!

-Rachel-

Yes, I am aware of those facts, Optical Delusion. I'm also aware that while PvP -can- be done well in a gaming environment (as we plan to have in our own, eventually) it's either built in from the get-go or useless.

Balancing imbalanced classes for PvP is a juggling act, especially when they have diffent inherent toughnesses. Without heavy modification of the system every fight becomes "Lolnoob" as a damage class crushes a control/support class or a fight that lasts far too long when it's two "Tank" classes wailing at each other until damage classes come and even out the damage to HP loss ratio.

However you also run the risk of creating a homogenized mess where all classes play almost identically in PvP in order to try and make it fair for the "Weaker" classes.

However, unlike you I realize that each of those 80 members of the Dev team already has a project (or several) they're working on, and adding this sort of thing to their workload would just delay their efforts. I do not think hiring a new employee specifically to sift through a vocal minority's garbage and raving for actual facts from the few PvPers who truly understand where the system needs to be changed is the right answer.

Especially since that developer would basically have his hands tied on getting anything done until he stole time from the various teams who's expertise and effort he would have to call on to make any massive changes.

Do you understand that, or does it need to be broken down further?

-Rachel-

I must resist the lulz...

That's... a massive amount of work to just add on to someone's workload. They didn't hire on a ton of new people to continue putting out the same small content updates they had been... They've all got fairly full plates.

And then asking them to sift through however many "lolPvP" and "13PvSuck" threads and posts for serious and important feedback...?

They'd do -far- better by hiring Je Saist.

-Rachel-

$30k....? What?!

With No experience the average starting pay is $50k. Six years experience pops you up to between $66k and $88k depending on your track record with production.

All of those are national averages, and don't include the Cost of Living hike in North Cal...

-Rachel-

That's what I meant. People who avoid PvP will never bother to turn it on. People who WANT PvP will.

Though... I'd also want the PvP rules reverted to i12, and the "PvP" zones transferred into co-op hazard zones, instead of solid PvP and just make the objectives "PvP enabled" only.

So if you're not flagged for PvP the turrets in RV, for example, aren't orange or red, but have blue reticles.

At least that way the PvP zones would get more traffic. =-P

-Rachel-

Oh, I most definitely agree with you, Sharker. But if they were to ever put flagged PvP in the game (any game, really) there should be no way to "Accidentally" flag.

I think that's just absurd.

-Rachel-

Some of the excesses of his oligarchs are hidden from him, canonically... There are things he has no understanding or -awareness- of in the game world.

It's not inconceivable that they only measure required to get his golden stamp of approval on the Seer program was showing that psychics could pose a threat, but would be better utilized as a tool against other criminals rather than killed at birth.

"I'm sorry, ma'am. She was stillborn" could have just as easily been the only knowledge anyone had of psychics, if Cole thought they were enough of a threat and tech was developed to screen newborns.

-Rachel-

Simpler Solution: Make PVP a flag you enter the options menu to turn on and off. Then noone who wants to avoid PVP will turn theirs on. Hurray!

-Rachel-

Cole -is- distant. That's his whole issue.

It's not that he wants to hurt people, or gets some sadistic joy out of stealing some kid's candy. He's just so emotionally removed from what it means to be human that he skips over the child's eagerness to have candy because the candy is bad for the child's teeth and, potentially, weight.

He wants to protect people, even if it means protecting them from themselves. He's happy to give them a pretty place to live, but it's a gilded cage. He doesn't WANT to inflict pain, he just feels he has to, much in the same way a parent spanks a child or a new pet owner bops a snarling puppy's nose.

Unfortunately his spankings tend to break your hips and, potentially spine.

-Rachel-

This. The point is that no one Developer will have a comprehensive understanding of the Powers system, the Basic mechanics of the engine, the PvPer's tactics and intents, a full understanding of what loopholes are going to rise, or what impact each and every change they implement will have on any given power.

For that you need a whole -team- of people. It's why I commented on a single Dev having all the knowledge required.

What PC guy is asking for is something else entirely: A Liason. Someone who goes between the PvPers and the Devs and carries their concerns. But if the Devs plan to hire a PvP Liason I'd want an RP liason first. If only to help get the canon sorted out, and some of the more specific stuff put into the game or altered to fit the storyline.

Manticore's "Canon Fodder" thread was a neat idea, but it has had incredibly limited involvement...

-Rachel-

So you'd rather they spend money on a Dev to focus entirely on PvP, which requires not only intimate knowledge of how the powers system is balanced (Castle) but how the Game's more basic systems work (Positron) and a comprehensive understanding of the tactics PvPers will use in different situations..?

You have an incredibly limited view of just how much knowledge is required to meet all three of those criteria... There is a reason Positron doesn't do the powers system, himself, rather than having Castle work on it almost exclusively, after all.

-Rachel-