Spiritchaser

I don't think there needs to be any manner of buff, I don't see a disparity between brute and scrapper power from this.

keep in mind that in a buff heavy environment, those scrapper chains are going to get a hell of a lot more from every point of +damage than their counterparts.

Do Brutes have a higher + damage cap? sure, but they need all of it just to equal what one fulcrum shift can do for a scrapper.

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the existence of Spines scrappers

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As I stated before, Spines Scrappers have been stated by Castle as only existing because they were there when he got here. Focus and Shockwave in Claws share this dubious attribution as well. He has specifically stated that he thinks that giving Scrappers ranged attacks in any primary powerset was a bad idea, but he's not going to change them because they're an integral part of the power sets at the moment. Spines/* and Claws/* shouldn't be used as evidence of this. They're specific and no-longer new-set-comparison viable outliers that you can expect there will not be any new sets based off of as long as Castle has the reigns on power design.

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I didn't actually expect this much attention to end up on assault/defence... I kind of expected most people would go on about assault/buff... however, I should probably be thankful that there seems to be interest in this at all.

Spines and claws DO exist, and that even with some of the hypothetical modifications to the secondary effects of spines that may, possibly, be coming down the pipe for that set, it wouldn't change the basic similarity it has to an assault set.

While there may be no new "SCRAPPER" sets that duplicate the same blend of aoe, st, ranged and melee damage, both new VEATs DO have similar mixes, as well as fairly high levels of durability, which are, at least potentially "in the same ballpark" as what is available to These were added in recent days, and I think it's reasonable to suggest that they evolved with Castle's blessing.

Remember also that I'm not proposing these to BE scrappers, or that "scrappers" should get assault sets, only that there could be workable new ATs with fun and playable levels of survival and damage with assault primaries and defence secondaries. Combinations of these sets could be used to build a lot of concepts which are a bit of a stretch for current ATs, both with regards to play style and power availability and could do so without doing anything that hasn't been done in recent game history with regards to total character power (VEATs).

Again, I think the one I'd like most would be assault/buff. A possible criticism might be that ele/thermal might seem like a bit of a PvP fotm, I'd submit that such is a minor concern since it'll all be different after the next rules swap... whenever that happens.

With regards to mods on assault/defence, I subnit that the very existance of VEATS should indicate that rather high levels of both defence (VEAT mods are notably high) and damage (VEATS can most certainly do damage) are considered acceptable. Again, not saying these are needed, just that they can exist.

In my opinion, the existence of Spines scrappers, and veats are actually a strong supporting argument for the suitability of assault defence characters. What can be done now mimics the power levels, and even the playstyle, but does not in any way allow coverage of the concepts or the specific power set properties.

With regards to assault/pets, I'd love to see some thematic buffing pets, and it's pretty easy to imagine how this could work. What's not so certain is how much control the character should have over those pets.

I guess it comes down to how well you can do things.

There currently is no "Melee/buff" set, although you can take a controller, throw in seismic smash, have a few pool powers and get something close, it wouldn't be anything like what an assault/buff could do, either in ranged or melee damage. Playstyle? you can kind of get there, but you're doing things the AT wasn't really meant to do, and you'll be getting less performance.

Can a crab spider be assault/pets? sure... kind of. With enough IOs a crab can have a lot of pets out. You can't control them especially well, and they're not the primary part of your function, It's a stretch capacity of the AT. You're also limited to one type of concept. No ice attacks for you. No zombies. No protector bot...

Can you make anything like and icy assault/ice armor character? sort-of-kind of. You can take an ice/ice tank with the right epic and you can stack IO procs and + damage like crazy, but that's not what such a build is normally about.

Can you make an "energy assault/invulnerability" or "psi/WP" character? well you can take a blaster and IO your way to some serious hit points and solid +def, but again, it's not really what the blaster AT is for.

Neither of these will be as good at the functions as something dedicated, and I suggest that there's a fair, interesting and valid place for an assault/defence armor AT, and lots of concepts to go with them, from though clearly there is no necessity for one.

AE allows me to make exactly what I want, more completely than the current system available to players. Yes there are more balance concerns for player characters, but I'm certain these are all resolvable. I think it's quite possible to add these combinations within the limits of PvE and PvP game balance.

It's more of a question of resource allocation and player interest, and the value of the investment is not so certain, Hell, if it was we'd probably have them.

Off the shelf my /ela was very strong against Rikti, but actually with full builds considered, he wasn't the strongest.

I IO'd the psi def of one of my /EAs up to the high 30s, and with massive s/l and energy def, he was definately tougher against rikti that what the /ele could do.

IO'd shield or SR would also be great.

I like dominator assault sets. I like the mix of range and melee, I like some of the specific powers, mostly I just like the very significant range of concept and focus, and the variety of metapowers. You really can beat the crap out of someone at range and up close, with the same type of conceptual powers at that. Sure a blaster can accomplish more than the same with their primary and secondary together, but assault sets seem to be such a nice, efficient combo, and they'd leave room for a whole other primary or secondary if another AT were to have them... Certain specific concept characters would be very well served by an assault set and... something else... if only there were such ATs.

Sure we'll probably never see these outside of AE content, but I've got them in my arcs, and I can dream...

As such:

Assault Primary/Defence Secondary
Ok, a thorns regen might be a bit close to something already out there, but you get the idea.
More ranged combat is possible, so HP could/should/would be lower than for scrappers. Otherwise somewhat similar in role. Melee attacks could be used if the situation allowed it or sit back and blast at somewhat lower dps. To some degree, this is not unlike the functional performance of VEATS. Epic powers would be controls and debuffs.

How would this be distinct from existing sets that have similar(ish) capacity?
Veats: Lower team buffs, no regen inherent, fewer controls than some, and potentially superior debuffs depending on set. Survival would be better for some builds, worse for others.
Khelds: Less AoE damage than a squid, less versatility (no forms) better mez protection, and potentially better all around survival, though obviously inferior to dwarf survival.
Spines scrappers: Admittedly very similar, though generally these would have lower HP, but...

So, why go with this instead of a spines scrapper? Lets pick an inherent that more than evens the odds in long fights. I'll call it focus. Each successive attack has a very small, but stacking, and long duration offensive debuff. It could be a stacking -res or it could be -def, It could be almost anything, even -recovery and -regen, heck it could even be a small - X% base HP... or whatever.

Defence Primary/Assault Secondary
Inherent: With no taunt power, aggro control is key. Ranged, melee and AoE attacks would all produce a modest (lower than tanks) taunt effect, with a small -range component. Perhaps as much as -30% or some such. This would be different (or much lower mag) in PvP
Epic sets would be similar to the assault/Def combo. Control and Debuff, throw in a pet for good measure.

So why these rather than tanks? An alternative to tanks, these would have better capacity to project power away from themselves, better control of remote aggro, and perhaps slightly better dps, but would generally be significantly more delicate. A consumate off tank, or exceptional small team tank. Def/Res Power mods would be somewhere between brutes and tanks, HP would also be somewhere between brutes and tanks.

Assault Primary/Modified Pet Secondary
These Hyperagressive MMs would be all about damage, and lots of it.
Inherent? oh, something weird. Increase own damage for every foe inside 20 feet (scale with foe rank) increase radius in PvP. Also Increase team damage for every teammate inside 20 feet. (or whatever). Your pet set might need to lose a power for a mez shield. Epic sets would include mostly control and debuff powers.

Why would you want to take one of these rather than a MM? you like a little more risk, and you want to kill things faster.

Assault Primary/Modified Buff debuff secondary
Potentially the most interesting set here. They could offer superior DPS to Corruptors at elevated risk. They'd retain most of a corruptor's debuffing/support power, but might trade a little off for one toggle. Why? These would probably need some type of mez protection to be playable, they'd also need an interesting inherent to compete with corruptors, who would be a bit more dependable, safer, and, more importantly, would have superior AoE dps in many ways. Epic Sets would include a def or rez shield, and some control powers. Throw in a pet for good measure.

<.<.

.>.>

I rather like DR...

[edit]: no really, I actually do...

If you want you can get some of the effect with a lot of def IOs... many are even reasonably affordable...

I built one of these in beta.

I didn't really even try for an AV soloing build, but I ended up in a swarm of praetorians at one point and found myself having a really hard time with an EB...

Er... oh. not an EB... that would explain it.

Oh wait, he's still going down pretty fast...

Not sure how long it took, certainly not the record times on the scrapper forums, but it was pretty damn fast.

I didn't build in enough durability, so it was seriously touch and go, had to chomp more than half a tray of green.

I think magnetic control and electric control might be awefully close in some conceptual areas...

Counterpoint... storm and cold domination are too

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When:
Soon

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when will then be now?

[/ QUOTE ]When now is now.

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How soon is now?

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<We are> human and <we> need to be loved, Just like everybody else does.

<no not the lyrics, i changed that for context>

edit: hadn't listened to the tatu version. Music not bad... they got some of that nifty reverb thing in the original.

Singing is not even close to the original though.

I did hear one cover once that was done with really really rough vocals, and you wouldn't have thought that it'd work, but it did... no idea who did it.

edit again: might have been love spit love?

Sofcap def against what you're facing (or get most of the way there and cap it off with an inspiration )

Have enough +HP or relevant resistance against what you're facing to avoid the possibility of being two shotted

Have enough healing, regeneration or green inspirations to regain lost hitpoints

Do enough damage to kill the AV,

Ideally, do so much damage that the stress on the survival half of the requirements is lower. It's easier to live for 5 minutes than for 9.

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I have yet to see a Dwarf crafted, +3 enchanted, mithril guilded with silver, shield and I doubt I will in CoX.


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How about a "knights" MM set for those heroic types?

Along with demons, mutants, aliens, ghosts, flying monkeys and durable household appliances.

Yup, hasten yes, grant cover...

Later.

I think weave is great and all, just that other things might be a lot more important for a leveling build.

I wouldn't consider it necessary for leveling. It's a much better end game power than it usually gets credit for (damn romans) but it's not as important as say... hasten.

Your final finished chain probably won't include shadow punch, but for leveling, I think it should. Skipping it will just make you miserable in the early game.

Start out with SP, Smite, siphon life and shadow maul.

Slot up SL as best you can. It's a solid attack, and it's a big chunk of your survival.

Active defence, true grit, and battle agility are all I needed to suppliment deflection. I didn't need tough/weave at all. With Siphon life chugging away it would have been superfluous. In the late game, with more powers, endurance and slots, take it if you feel you really need it...

I did need to use sands of mu as a chain filler untill I got slotted. Not often, but it came up. With boxing I might have been marginally more efficient, but... meh...

Here's a guestimate of how things were slotted early, or at least close.

Basically, slot your attacks well first (I usually go 4 or 5 slots in attacks before I even think about defences) and again, make sure siphon life has the freshest enhancements you can afford. It needs to hit.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Level 29 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- Empty(A), Empty(3), Empty(5), Empty(15), Empty(17)
Level 1: Deflection -- Empty(A), Empty(23), Empty(25)
Level 2: Smite -- Empty(A), Empty(3), Empty(5), Empty(13), Empty(21)
Level 4: Shadow Maul -- Empty(A), Empty(7), Empty(7), Empty(17), Empty(19)
Level 6: True Grit -- Empty(A), Empty(25)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- Empty(A), Empty(9), Empty(9), Empty(13), Empty(15), Empty(19)
Level 10: Active Defense -- Empty(A), Empty(11), Empty(11)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Battle Agility -- Empty(A), Empty(23)
Level 18: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- Empty(A), Empty(21)
Level 22: Against All Odds -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Super Jump -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Phalanx Fighting -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit



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I think my last powers before 32 were soul drain, phalanx fighting and hasten, but I can't recall the slotting...

Don't worry about respeccing out of SP untill you have midnight grasp... and even then wait.

There's an extra slot in Active defence. Better to be solid on recharge early than have gaps with lower level enhancements. You're going to respec anyway.

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I dunno, Bill, being able to hit 95% def resistance seems invaluable to me. I'd rather have the option to do it, even if I didn't use it most times. Besides, the investment is 2 extra slots.

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I like this philosophy.

To me it seems like a no brainer to at least have the option in one of my builds. A SD build with capped DR will have potentially the same def as SR, the same DR as SR, static resistances that match very closely with the average performance likely from the scaling ones SR gets, extra HP and of course more damage, and... shield charge.

The only costs are the lost opportunity cost that the extra IOs and slots SD needs take away from you, and that you can't have DB, spines or claws (well, just db for brutes)

[edit]: also, it's not like that extra recharge is a waste either. more recharge is good for shield charge, and... well, probably for your primary too.

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So, heroes and villains will get to change sides in the new expansion.

Villains are going to need some ancillary power pools for when they turn good.

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Perhaps one of my brutes will become good, and never again assist his old patron Ghost Widow... For all that she was powerful she now holds no sway over him, and he regrets every moment in her service.

He will, however, aid her Praetorian counterpart to the very best of his ability, fighting beside her in the battle against Tyrant and his oppressors... I really hope she still has gloom...

Ok, it might not be like this, but why not?

I have to admit a bias. I want the right answer to be rad... it's just so much cooler...

sigh.

It's going to be MUCH easier to make balanced mini-games.

Capture the flag, for example, might turn out to heavily favor a team with one or two tanks, king of the hill might be good for MMs (or whatever)

If both factions can have them, it's way easier to avoid problems.

Post rouge, only powersets involving the colors red or pink will be any good in PvP.

Energy Melee/Manipulation/Assault will be getting a buff, all pom pom powers will do quadruple current base stun duration in PvP zones.

Fortitude will now radically increase resistance to debuffs.

Additional changes will be made to Some Psi attacks, proccing random target debuffs

Many other powers will see minor changes, such as a chance to proc random bonus costume slots or granting new face costume options, potentially teleporting a foe to the east of Scarborough, producing generous helpings of creole cooking, some may even have a 1% chance to proc a debuff on a foe's SG base location until it's in Cambodia, sometime in the mid '70s.

Thanks for all the advice, looks like I'll be rolling a corr.

How big a deal is the base accuracy buff in rad? by the numbers it looks like it should matter given my understanding of the new tohit mechanics... it looks like the equivalent of a small helping of tohitbuff that isn't cut down by DR...

Meh, even if it is, hopefully my brutes will be able to take an epic set that has a hold in it.

Counterpoint: my DM/SD scrapper might be able to take gloom...

Given the FAQ, I'm... pretty sure it is...

I've been very impressed with a couple of the thermals I've fought in zones. I thought I might roll one or two of them to try them out.

Curious to know what people would suggest as a primary?

At this point I could be quite happy blue or red side so anything goes.

Any and all suggestions appreciated.