Speed_Force

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I thought they removed the exp from the summoned demons?

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The summoned demons don't matter. People farming the mission just avoid the summoning portals.

All of the other demons in the mission are still worth XP and still only have fire based attacks.

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The fix needed, in addition to fixing so they attack at all levels, is to fix the broken custom group hole. Make sure that any custom group must have a minion, a lieutenant, and a boss in order to be used. It's the hole all exploits drive through.

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Not necessarily. You can make groups that fight back using just minions (though experienced players will have a better idea of how to fight back) but the real problem are design gaps with certain enemies and only having exactly one cherry picked enemy.

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Like the Infernal Portal mission Maria gives that has nothing in it but demons which have fire attacks?

That mission has been live (and farmed by Fire tanks) for over 3 years now.

I don't see any real difference in an AE mission that has only mobs with fire based attacks (or one which has only S/L attacks, etc.) than the Infernal mission.

If the Dev created mission isn't considered "broken" then I see no reason why a player created one using the same enemies would be.

It has no effect at all (now)

Once upon a time (back when Hammie raids first started) it DID effect the cone range on Shadow Maul.

My Dark "Melee" scrapper had several weeks of fun with a cone attack that extended about 20'. (this was back prior to ED when you could massively stack enhancement bonuses.)

Ah, the good 'ol days...

Nevermind..

I found an error in the way Mids was applying the enhancement buffs.

Unless I am missing something, the rumbers on the Redtomax page don't match up to what I am seeing in the game.

For example: in the game, my 50th level Scrapper travels at 17.21 mph using hover with one LvL 50 Flight IO in the power (and no swift pool power or other IO bonuses are involved).

However, when I punch those numbers from the Tomax page into the database

* +4 Fly for 0.75s
Effect does not stack from same caster


* FlySpeed +0.5 for 0.75s
Effect does not stack from same caster

* FlySpeed +0.5 for 0.75s [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster

* FlySpeed -1.01 for 0.75s [Ignores Enhancements & Buffs]
Effect does not stack from same caster

* MovementControl, MovementFriction +100 for 0.75s
Effect does not stack from same caster


The program projects a flight speed of 11.8mph for a level 50 character using Hover and one lvl 50 Flight IO.

I'm trying to track down where the problem is now.

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I prefer energy torrent and conserve power to any of the other pools. ET gives you another place to stick a force feedback proc and it also does KD which adds to your mitigation. and conserve power is highly useful especially for a recharge build where multiple rage crashes can drain the blue bar quick.

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While Conserve Power may be helpful, Energy Torrent's knockback will be counterproductive when played up with Burn.

The Knockdown in Footstomp will provide some mitigation and my plan with this build will be that the best defense is a good offense as the mobs can't do damage if they're dead.

Looking at the numbers, the build should be functional for what I am looking to do endurance wise since Consume will be refilling the end bar every 80 seconds or so.

Or at least that's the plan, I won't know for certain until after I level the character up.

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How is Burn with Footstomp? Does the kd actually help and allows you to use Burn as a combo?

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Burn works quite well with footstomp, be sure to have blazing aura as well.

Burn+footstomp will usually kill things before it can stand back up. Burn+footstomp+fireball kills tougher things.

Blazing aura makes sure that anything that does survive and starts to flee turns around almost immediately.

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I am going with the Earth Mastery set because I have found on my other Fire tanks that Quicksand tends to lock the mobs in place long enough for Burn to run to full effect (or nearly so) which makes it better for burning Lts and Bosses.

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You find people stand next to you powering your RttC a lot in PvP?

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Some people do actually run the missions in PVP zones and attack the NPCs there (as the OP was trying to do).

Having RttC detoggle while fighting NPCs in a PvP zone makes that specific tank set essentially worthless there.

Well here is what I built to experiment with.

Not too expensive, just three hard to get IOs (and I already have two of them from ticket rolls lying around) and it allows him to hit the damage cap just self buffed when Rage + FE are both running and can also almost hit that for the eighteen seconds every cycle that Rage doubles up as well.

Say Hello to Captain Galaxy.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Fire SS: Level 50 Science Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Earth Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Dmg/EndRdx(3), %Dam(17), Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Dmg(46)
Level 1: Jab -- Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Acc/Dmg(3), Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), Dmg/Rchg(33), Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34)
Level 2: Fire Shield -- ResDam(A), ResDam/EndRdx(15), ResDam-I(17)
Level 4: Healing Flames -- Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Heal/Rchg(5), EndRdx/Rchg(5), Heal/Rchg(34), Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 6: Haymaker -- Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Acc/Dmg(7), Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), Dmg/Rchg(40), Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40)
Level 8: Hover -- Flight-I(A), Flight-I(9), Flight-I(9)
Level 10: Consume -- EndMod/EndRdx(A), EndMod(11), EndMod/Acc/Rchg(11), EndMod/Rchg(37), Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- ResDam(A), ResDam/EndRdx(13), ResDam-I(13)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight-I(A)
Level 16: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 18: Burn -- %Dam(A), Dmg(19), Acc/Rchg(19), Dmg/Rchg(36), Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37)
Level 20: Knockout Blow -- Acc/Dmg(A), Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Dmg/Rchg(45), Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46)
Level 22: Health -- Heal(A), Heal/EndRdx(23), Regen/Rcvry+(23), Rcvry+(36)
Level 24: Stamina -- End%(A), EndMod(25), EndMod/Acc(25), EndMod/Rchg(36), EndMod/Acc/Rchg(43)
Level 26: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 28: Rage -- Rchg(A), ToHit/Rchg(29), ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(29), EndRdx/Rchg(42), ToHit(43)
Level 30: Boxing -- Acc/Stun/Rchg(A), Acc/EndRdx(31), EndRdx/Stun(31), Stun/Rng(46)
Level 32: Tough -- ResKB(A), ResDam(33), ResDam/EndRdx(33)
Level 35: Taunt -- Dam%(A)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- Dmg/EndRdx(A), Dmg/Rchg(39), Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), %Dam(39), Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Stone Prison -- Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Dmg/EndRdx(42), Dmg/Rchg(42), Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Quick Sand -- Slow-I(A), Slow-I(45), Dam%(45)
Level 47: Stalagmites -- Dam%(A), Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), Dmg/EndRdx(48), Dmg/Rng(48), Acc/Dmg(50)
Level 49: Weave -- Rchg+(A), Def(50), Def/EndRdx(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]19% DamageBuff(Smashing)[*]19% DamageBuff(Lethal)[*]19% DamageBuff(Fire)[*]19% DamageBuff(Cold)[*]19% DamageBuff(Energy)[*]19% DamageBuff(Negative)[*]19% DamageBuff(Toxic)[*]19% DamageBuff(Psionic)[*]48% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]38.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]3% Enhancement(Stun)[*]5% FlySpeed[*]288.1 HP (15.4%) HitPoints[*]5% JumpHeight[*]5% JumpSpeed[*]Knockback (Mag -4)[*]Knockup (Mag -4)[*]MezResist(Immobilize) 6.6%[*]MezResist(Stun) 6.6%[*]14% (0.23 End/sec) Recovery[*]76% (5.95 HP/sec) Regeneration[*]1.58% Resistance(Fire)[*]1.58% Resistance(Cold)[*]1.26% Resistance(Energy)[*]1.26% Resistance(Negative)[*]5% RunSpeed[/list]

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I know that, but RttC's main purpose is Defensive so let's say it is a special case power and bend the rules to take into account RttC's main function which is the main tanking power of Willpower. It doesn't damage Mobs, just mildly debuffs To-Hit, similar to Invincibility, but in reverse and no where near as good as the Defense that Invincibility can generate.

The new rules may not have been targetted to Nerf Willpower and RttC, but that is what the new rules have done. The powerset is just about useless without the main regens from Willpower. And hey, a Nerf is a Nerf is a Nerf, even if it comes in the guise of a politically correct Nerf.

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No it's not a special case. IT AFFECTS THE ENEMY. Like Chilling Embrace, AAO, and other non-damaging auras like Op. Gloom and Cloak of Fear. So in PvP it is detoggled by mez like any aura that affects enemies.

AAO is also a key power in Shields, as well as Chilling Embrace in Ice, what in the hell makes you think Willpower deserves special treatment?

EDIT: removed invincibility since Wavicle told me it does not detoggle.

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AAO is a primarilly offensive power, RttC is a Defensive one.

RttC is without a doubt the most powerful defensive tool a WP tank has for survival. Dropping it is essentially the equivalent of an Invulnerable Tanker suddenly losing all S/L Resistance.

A tanker that loses AAO in a fight probably won't die from it.

One that loses EttC probably will.

IMO either change the mechanic so that WP Tankers will be viable in PVP zones and missions or else Drop the inane -tohit effect and give RttC the same basic +taunt mechanic invincibility has.

Since Mids has not been updated beyond I13, I was wondering if anyone knew the correct settings to alter in the Mids Database to reflect the changes to Hover's speed since I14.

I am assuming that you would go to Options-Advanced-Database editor-Main Database-Pool-Flight-Combat_flight-Edit-Effects

But I am not certain of what value to alter to update the flight speed to reflect the current value in the game.

I set the scale to -1.11 and that seems close but if anyone knows the exact value it would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Mostly on my main characters, I just run content and sell the unwanted salvage and recipes. I also take note when making IOs for the characters of any wildly profitable options between the recipe+salvage vs the crafted IO and tend to buy not only enough to craft what I need but to make an extra or three for sale as well.

So far this has taken my main toon from about 20 million inf and basic SOs to over 500 million and most of the IOs I wanted for him in about 4 weeks of very casual play. (still missing some LotG +rchg and a Numina unique).

Across all of my characters I probably have around 800-900 million inf now for playing this way.

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Honestly, any MMO with loot is going to end up having a few stupidly rare items. At least in CoX anyone, even casual players, can eventually get any item in the game. Play a 50 long enough and you will end up with enough inf to buy even the PvP 3% defense IO. It may take a long time, but it's possible. Compare that to many other MMOs where it's literally impossible for a non-hardcore player to ever get the top loot because doing so requires a lot of raiding for non-transferable items. Like in FFXI, where there is a boss that requires dozens of people on a 24 hour raid to defeat it. You can probably count the number of times it's been beaten on one hand. Or WoW's "grind raid dungeon A for months to get gear so you can grind dungeon B for months so you can get gear to grind dungeon C for months..." format. The worst I've seen was Earth and Beyond, where there were items that gave crafters a huge advantage by boosting item quality... and the items were hyper-rare random drops that had a drop rate of around one per year per server. Needless to say, they could not be bought at any price... the only one I ever heard of being sold went for a large chunk of real-world cash.

Compared to that nonsense, a billion inf for the game's rarest IO isn't that bad...

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Or they could just make the IOs not so ridiculously rare.

Problem solved.

Just because one MMO has an insanely elite loot system doesn't mean that they all should.

Some of us play CoX as a "relaxing" break away from games like WoW.

Ultimately I think my friend would be happier with the Scrapper option as he is not the type to want to stand there and let other people kill the map for him.

It's up to him, but I think that is my recommendation.

Hell, Maybe I'll build the opposite of whatever he chooses and we can run them side by side.

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So basically this change to PvP IO drops will eliminate any chance my three friends and I have of getting them unless we basically take a 5 minute break from playing every time we kill each other?

That is idiotic.

Usually the 4 of us are the only ones in the zone PvPing in the first place.

I am guessing the Devs just want to kill what little PvP action is left in the game all together now.

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Well the previous rules for pvp IO's weren't really rewarding people for actually pvp'ing either. If you wanted them you had to farm for them.



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Odd, my friends and I only play in PVP matches 2-3 hours a week ( a total of maybe 12 hours total over the past month) and I have seen personally 11 PVP recipes drop for my PVP character and my friends have all seen similar drops as well.



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I agree the changes are poor, but you are either underestimated the hours you put in, exceptionally lucky, or you guys die like flies when you play.

11 drops =~1100 kills/12hrs = 92 kills an hour = 1.5 kills per minute.

Most 4 person, 20 minute matches don't have 120 kills.

If you are actively pvp'ing and scoring kills that fast you are far outside the norm.

The old rate was far too low for actual pvp, the new rate generally works out to be lower still.

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1. We only play on Friday nights between 8pm and 11pm so I am fairly certain as to how much actual time was invested in PVP rounds.

2. We typically run custom arena rounds of 30 minutes each (as none of us care about ratings) set to maximum end recovery and no pool powers, travel powers or inspirations are allowed. We can be pretty brutal at taking each other out fairly quickly. We end up in the Cage stage for most sets but since each person in turn sets up the matches we see a variety of occasional other venues and power options from time to time.

3. I know exactly how many PVP recipes I have obtained, and while less certain of the numbers my friends have obtained, from what I have seen I don't believe my total was wildly out of balance with theirs.

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Frankly, at this point I don't really care what the Devs think. As far as I am concerned, if this change makes it to the Live game PVP is dead.

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That's funny. Oh well, I tried to help ya but if you wish to just /em trowhandsinair and give up, I won't stop ya.

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I'm sorry, you seem to be speaking as though you think that the Devs would actually listen to the player base?

I've been through enough PM arguments with Red Names from back when the game was first released through the ED changes to know that simply isn't the case.

I don't really care what they think because they almost certainly don't care what I think either.

My initial post here was more to confirm how I believed the new mechanics will run than to actually expect a Dev to take notice much less alter the intended changes.

My vitriol is from the simple fact that I alone of my friends actually like the PVE content and that it was the introduction of PVP recipes which enticed them back to the game (and thus allowed us to play something other than Halo together on-line).

I am certain beyond a doubt that this change to recipe drop rates, if implemented, will cause them to cancel their accounts again.

(... and so it's back to Halo on Friday nights again... Yay!)



Sadly, there is such a small PVP community in this game already that I doubt there will be much furor over this change when it hits.

The absolute die hards who PVP'd when there were no rewards at all will still play while many of those who came over to the PVP side with the enticement of rewards will softly and silently vanish away.

A fraction of a small fraction of the player base will hardly be a blip on anyone's spreadsheet at the NC office headquarters and believe me, the only way the devs ever seem to reverse themselves in this game are when their corporate masters take note of a major change in revenue.

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I agree that being able to customize the mob levels in a group (minions, LTs and Bosses) can be overused, but since the mobs have the appropriate HPs, Damage Levels, attacks and regeneration rate for their category I still see little difference in that versus a mission like the Infernal one which my Fire tank can take on solo in record time.

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I've seen someone taken from 1 to 50 in 6 hours using a custom AE mission built around fire damage. I don't think that's mathematically possible in the PvE Infernal mission.

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If true, that would be fairly abusive and I agree that it probably isn't possible to duplicate that on the Infernal map due to the need for a 3rd character to be in there to act as a bridge for the level 1.

However I do know that I have managed to level a friend's alt to level 15 in a little over one hour using My Fire Tank, an alt to mid from my wife's account and the Infernal mission. (and a map set for 8)

That was as far as we pushed it though as he just wanted to be up to the point of having a travel power.

However, it does give some comparison that "insane" power leveling isn't the sole providence of the AE Studios but can be accomplished fairly easily in the Dev created content as well.

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Given that PvP IO drops are now tied to rep, perhaps it's time to take another look at the rep system (which was previously only good for earning two badges, as rep really isn't an indicator of skill).

The current problem is that killing someone while the rep timer is on a cooldown actually resets that timer. Additionally, if you did damage to an enemy, and someone else got the kill, you won't be able to get rep off that enemy until that cooldown period is over. Likewise, if they've killed you recently, returning the favor won't get you rep. So here's the proposal, to make rep a bit easier to understand and a bit more reliable for being able to determine PvP drops:

1. Rep timer is a hard 5-minute timer. Rather than resetting each time you kill that same target, it simply resets five minutes after the first kill.

2. The rep timer does not start unless you or a teammate gets the kill.

3. Being killed by, or attacked by, another player will not start your rep timer against them. The only way to start the rep timer is to kill someone.

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^^^^^^ That.

Agree 100%

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Perhaps the developers felt 11 pvp recipes (that are suppose to be as rare as purples) in a 12 hour span was too many.



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As I said, I could understand dropping the chance to roll for a recipe to once every five minutes, it's the perpetually resetting timer that I consider to be ludicrous.

Not everyone has a pool of dozens of opponents to go after.

For small PVP groups like the one I participate in, this change is basically eliminating any chance of ever seeing a recipe again.

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Also, try less insulting and more objective reasoning to sway the minds of the devs bro. You're starting to make yourself look bad.

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Frankly, at this point I don't really care what the Devs think. As far as I am concerned, if this change makes it to the Live game PVP is dead.

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So basically this change to PvP IO drops will eliminate any chance my three friends and I have of getting them unless we basically take a 5 minute break from playing every time we kill each other?

That is idiotic.

Usually the 4 of us are the only ones in the zone PvPing in the first place.

I am guessing the Devs just want to kill what little PvP action is left in the game all together now.

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Well the previous rules for pvp IO's weren't really rewarding people for actually pvp'ing either. If you wanted them you had to farm for them.



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Odd, my friends and I only play in PVP matches 2-3 hours a week ( a total of maybe 12 hours total over the past month) and I have seen personally 11 PVP recipes drop for my PVP character and my friends have all seen similar drops as well.

No farming, just arena matches between the four of us and yet we still felt "rewarded" for our PVP efforts.

Now we will essentially have to take pains to only kill a given person once every five minutes or we will essentially never see another recipe drop again?

I repeat.. Idiotic change.

While I can understand (to some degree) the "once every 5 minutes rule". The fact that the timer continuously resets every time you kill the person within that five minute period is what is truly idiotic about this change.

Now I have to keep track of who I have killed and who I haven't and when I can kill them again?

Idiotic.

Or else I suppose we can only do 5 minute matches with a 5 minute waiting period between them but that really isn't a fun way to play now is it?

What I would really like to know what moron on the Dev team thought up this "Brilliant" solution.

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So basically this change to PvP IO drops will eliminate any chance my three friends and I have of getting them unless we basically take a 5 minute break from playing every time we kill each other?

That is idiotic.

Usually the 4 of us are the only ones in the zone PvPing in the first place.

I am guessing the Devs just want to kill what little PvP action is left in the game all together now.

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Perhaps you should calm down before posting ^^ They're trying to balance what little pvp there is in the game, not "kill" anything. Less emotion brings balance and rational thinking

-C.A.

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One of the main reasons my friends (and basically the only reason that one of them) returned to the game was to be able to play essentially "custimzable characters" in PVP matches.

We had done this before but the lack of any tangible rewards for the effort vs the easily obtained rewards in PVE created some annoyance and essentially resentment towards the game.

The idea that you could gain rewards (recipies) through just PVP content was enough to entice them back to playing. (no need to grind PVE content that they loathe for the influence required to IO out their characters)

The "bug" introduced (evidentially deliberately by the Devs) a couple of weeks ago has already soured them on the game again, this idiotic nerf will almost certainly cause them to give up on CoX all over again.

So yes, as far as I am concerned this moronic move by the Devs will be yet another step towards killing PVP in this game.

As to "They HAD to fix farmers" ... OK so when will the patch come for PVE that limits the number of recipes you can get to one every 5 minutes or so with a timer that resets endlessly every time you kill a specific type of mob?

Oh wait, that would be an idiotic change that would probably kill the game now wouldn't it.

Sauce for the goose...

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Well, yeah, if you want to compare IOed scrappers to SOed tanker fire armor, you will find many scrappers are better. Possibly all... Yes, IOed scrapper fire armor has stronger survivability than SOed tanker fire armor in my opinion, if you build the scrapper for maximum mitigation and are only concerned about solo performance.

Arguably, you're picking the strongest scrapper armor set (not in pure mitigation, I'm considering Shield Charge, AaO and the full, stackable mez protection as well when I say that) with the strongest synergy (DM having the heal Shield lacks, and SD working perfectly with AaO), and you compare it to the weakest tanker armor set, with mediocre synergy (DM's heal isn't so important as FA already has a good heal, the tohitdebuffs haven't any defense to stack with). That's pretty much the worst (or best ) case scenario here.

If you compare an IOed Shield/DM tanker to a SOed DM/Fire scrapper, the tanker will have higher DPS (and obviously much higher survivability).

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True, however my point has been to refute the statement of my friend..

"No Scrapper is ever better at surviving than any Tanker".

And am basing my comparisons on my attempts to not only refute that point of view but to show that it is possible to build a Scrapper that has the overall durability of a nominal Tank (something that my other friend was interested in).

My sole point in asking here is to see if there was some aspect of the comparative survivability that I had missed or was mis-representing.

I understand about the Agro issue (although AAO's aura does have some of that built in) but essentially, this whole point of inquiry came from my discussion with my friends over the one friend's new character and the contention held by another friend that..

"No Scrapper is ever better at surviving than any Tanker".

(With the one accepted caveat of Regen scrappers vs Psi when compared to Invulnerable tankers.)

My argument was that while when all things are equal, a tanker would be the better choice, an IO'd out SD scrapper would be a more durable toon than a "basic" Tanker who is just set up with IOs.

Or that my friend could essentially have the damage potential of a Scrapper with better durability than a low end Tanker if he took SD/DM and was willing to invest the time and Influence into the character to do it right.


For example; this fairly IO'd (but not maximized) SD/Dark Scrapper... (Note: the settings for Phalanx Fighting have been adjusted to reflect zero allies in range)


Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Shield Scrapper: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Darkness Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- Mako-Dam%:50(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx:50(3), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(3), Mako-Acc/Dmg:50(5), Mako-Dmg/Rchg:50(5), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:50(25)
Level 1: Deflection -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(7), DefBuff-I:50(7)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(9), DefBuff-I:50(9)
Level 4: True Grit -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Numna-Heal:50(21), Numna-Heal/EndRdx:50(21), Heal-I:30(23)
Level 6: Shadow Maul -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg:50(11), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg:50(11), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(13), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg:50(13)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(A), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(17), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(17)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(19), Zephyr-ResKB:50(19), DefBuff-I:50(23), DefBuff-I:50(33)
Level 12: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(45), Zephyr-ResKB:50(45)
Level 16: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 18: Dark Consumption -- Erad-Dmg:30(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg:30(25), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(27), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(27), Erad-%Dam:30(29), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(29)
Level 20: Phalanx Fighting -- DefBuff-I:50(A)
Level 22: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 24: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(A), Mrcl-Heal:40(31), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx:40(33)
Level 26: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod:50(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:50(33), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx:50(34), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg:50(34)
Level 28: Soul Drain -- Oblit-%Dam:50(A), Oblit-Dmg:50(34), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(36), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(37)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(31), RechRdx-I:50(31)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- T'Death-Dam%:40(A), T'Death-Acc/Dmg:40(37), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:40(39), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(39), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:40(39), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:40(40)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Oblit-%Dam:50(A), Oblit-Dmg:50(37), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(40), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(42), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(42), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(42)
Level 38: Boxing -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(40), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(43), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(43), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(43)
Level 41: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A)
Level 44: Torrent -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(46), Posi-Dmg/Rng:50(46), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(46)
Level 47: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def:50(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(48), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg:50(48), DefBuff-I:50(48)
Level 49: Dark Blast -- Cloud-ToHitDeb:30(A), Cloud-Acc/ToHitDeb:30(50), Cloud-Acc/Rchg:30(50), Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg:30(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Fire)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Cold)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Energy)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Negative)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)[*]11.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)[*]8.63% Defense(Smashing)[*]8.63% Defense(Lethal)[*]9.25% Defense(Fire)[*]9.25% Defense(Cold)[*]11.1% Defense(Energy)[*]11.1% Defense(Negative)[*]3% Defense(Psionic)[*]14.3% Defense(Melee)[*]14.6% Defense(Ranged)[*]15.5% Defense(AoE)[*]4.05% Max End[*]50% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]32.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]180.7 HP (13.5%) HitPoints[*]Knockback (Mag -8)[*]Knockup (Mag -8)[*]MezResist(Confused) 2.5%[*]MezResist(Held) 8.55%[*]MezResist(Immobilize) 13%[*]MezResist(Sleep) 2.5%[*]MezResist(Stun) 6.9%[*]MezResist(Terrorized) 2.5%[*]6.5% (0.11 End/sec) Recovery[*]42% (2.35 HP/sec) Regeneration[*]1.58% Resistance(Fire)[*]1.58% Resistance(Cold)[*]3.13% Resistance(Negative)[*]2% XPDebtProtection[/list]

Versus this very basic Fire/Dark Tanker..



Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/

[u]Click this DataLink to open the build![u]

Basic Fire Tank: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Dark Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Earth Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- Acc-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(3), Dmg-I:50(3), EndRdx-I:50(5), EndRdx-I:50(5)
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- Acc-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(7), Dmg-I:50(7), Dmg-I:50(9), RechRdx-I:50(9)
Level 2: Fire Shield -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(11), ResDam-I:50(11), EndRdx-I:50(46), EndRdx-I:50(46)
Level 4: Healing Flames -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(13), RechRdx-I:50(13), Heal-I:50(15), Heal-I:50(15), Heal-I:50(17)
Level 6: Shadow Maul -- Acc-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(17), Dmg-I:50(19), Dmg-I:50(19), RechRdx-I:50(21)
Level 8: Consume -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(21), RechRdx-I:50(23)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(25), DefBuff-I:50(27)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(27), ResDam-I:50(29), EndRdx-I:50(29), EndRdx-I:50(45)
Level 14: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 16: Super Jump -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 18: Siphon Life -- Acc-I:50(A), Acc-I:50(31), Dmg-I:50(31), Dmg-I:50(31), Heal-I:50(33), Heal-I:50(33)
Level 20: Burn -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(33), RechRdx-I:50(34), Dmg-I:50(34), Dmg-I:50(34), Dmg-I:50(42)
Level 22: Health -- Heal-I:50(A), Heal-I:50(23), Heal-I:50(25)
Level 24: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(36), EndMod-I:50(36)
Level 26: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(36), RechRdx-I:50(37)
Level 28: Soul Drain -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(37), RechRdx-I:50(37)
Level 30: Boxing -- Acc-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(39), Dmg-I:50(39), RechRdx-I:50(39)
Level 32: Tough -- ResDam-I:50(A), ResDam-I:50(40), ResDam-I:50(40), EndRdx-I:50(46)
Level 35: Dark Consumption -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(40), RechRdx-I:50(42), EndMod-I:50(42)
Level 38: Weave -- DefBuff-I:50(A), DefBuff-I:50(43), DefBuff-I:50(43), EndRdx-I:50(50)
Level 41: Stone Prison -- Acc-I:50(A), Immob-I:50(43)
Level 44: Quick Sand -- Slow-I:50(A), Slow-I:50(45), Slow-I:50(45)
Level 47: Stalagmites -- Acc-I:50(A), Dmg-I:50(48), Dmg-I:50(48), EndRdx-I:50(48)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(50), RechRdx-I:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u] None


Unless I am missing something (which I am not ruling out mind you) overall I think that the SD scrapper would be just as durable in most situations and possibly much more so in several others than the Tanker, while at the same time being able to deal out considerably more damage.

Am I wrong in thinking that the only real differences in taking Shield Defense on a Scrapper vs a Tanker is that it costs a bit more for a scrapper to reach the same defensive levels as the tanker and that the Tanker has a higher HP cap?

If that is true, since it is possible for Scrappers these days to hit the lower end tanker HP levels using Accolades and IOs does that mean that a well IO'd out shield scrapper would make a decent tank substitute?

Last night a friend was asking me these questions regarding rolling up a new Shield character (Scrapper vs Tanker) and while I wasn't certain I had to admit that I didn't see much difference in the two options once the character hits 50 and starts seriously getting into IOs.

While the Scrapper would never be able to tank a task force, for casual playing I can certainly see a IO'd out shield scrapper being better off as the "tank" for a group over say, a Fire tanker outfitted with just SOs.

Am I missing something in all this or is SD the only Scrapper secondary which can come close to matching the Tanker version of the same powerset?

Did the same thing on a new toon yesterday.

Picked a common item, bought 20 of them at 30k each and sold them all for 150k a pop later that same hour.

Repeated this throughout the day and earned about 8 million by just stopping at WW every time I passed through the zone while running missions.