SoulWarden

Is Elude worth it for PvP? Well, it's only an escape move... but it seems overkill (in defense sense of the word).

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You CAN get out of range from an AS strike, the AS animation is performed, it doesnt hit (not a miss) and you stay hidden but you ahve to wait for the power to build back up.

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<throws a snowball at Stalk_obot>
I already wrote that!

Hope you're right then about the AoE defense. In that case it IS worth slotting it.

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Then you're looking at a dodgy Char Builder. Hide grants low defense to everything, but a high defense to AoE - around to 20-30% mark I believe.

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I'd be getting a bit off topic now... but could you recommend a good char builder then? I'm using SherkSilver builder ATM.

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There is days where I think my pets hate me. Especially when I say "you stay here, passive mode" and look at them ignore my orders and attack the Backalley Brawler.

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They got bored.

Personally I never noticed this. But than again, my MM is young and so far I've been only playing solo with him.

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Mud Pots, Caltrops, Blazing Aura, Lightning Field, etc. There are many PBAoE's that do damage and you know that dedicated PvPers will be taking them.


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Ahh, then I was lucky. Last time I was in Sirenes, all I saw were some knockbacks. It was still a pain to AS those using them.

Although... I've been playing around some more in Char Builder to see what the stats would be when Hide is 3 slotted for defense. Effect: AoE defense at 9,1% (Stealth doesn't add defense against AoE), and that's with +1 SOs. Doesn't look like much TBH. I Think those damage thingies could get through that quite quickly.

Experiments needed!

Well, I've tried hitting blasters who would jump all around the hot spots in Sirenes (or run, or fly). So with a reduced ranged it'd still be next to impossible.

However, one thing I'm sure of: if you KNOW a stalker is making an AS, and you can't target him or interrupt him (using an AoE or something perhaps), you can avoid getting AS'ed by turning a corner or jumping over a wall... anything solid that obstructs the stalkers view of you. Just like sniper shots, this will cause the shot to use up it's recharge, but do no damage and won't reveal the stalker.

Well, one slot for Hide could be taken of Jump Kick, assuming Dull Pain wouldn't be better off with it.

Also, and this is pure theory speculation here, I've noticed that most of those PBAoEs are knockback powers. I haven't seen to many damage AoE's being thrown around, but than again I might have been lucky. So I figured a knockback protection would be enough... Again, this is pure theory here, so I've no idea if this is true or not.

Also, could you tell me if Resilience is any good, and what is the self-damage of Energy Transfer?

I've also made a mistake in that post... I was wondering if Resiliance wouldn't be better swapped with Barrage, not Energy Punch, which is already there.

Hmm... perhaps in that case, that damage SHOULD be resisted? Along with scrapper damage and blasters' -resist that is.

I've tested it, and here are the results.

I was attacking Council Soldiers and Hoverbots, both +1 lvl.

Sting of the Wasp on soldier: 77 dmg
Sting of the Wasp on Hoverbot: 38 dmg
AS on soldier: 386 dmg
AS on Hoverbot: 199 dmg

So I think it's clear, that in PvE crits ARE resisted. I'd be suprised if it was different in PvP.

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Resistance means damage kind and the critical hits from stalkers and scrappers are best described as untyped damage (Hamidon damage).

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Wrong. Combat log reports it to be specific type. In my case, lethal. In the case of an EN/* stalker, energy.

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The foes you have meantioned all have a high amount of HP. They dont resist it, they have more HP

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I'll be sure to note the ammount of damage I do against them, and other enemies then. I'm quite sure they DO resist it.

EDIT: OK, tested it against those Council Hoverbots and normal Council Soldiers (both were +1 lvl). Here are the effects:
Sting of the Wasp on soldier: around 77 dmg
Sting of the Wasp on Hoverbot: around 38 dmg
AS on soldier: 386 (the crit part only)
AS on Hoverbot: 199
I think it's clear, that they DO resist damage. I'd be suprised if it was different in PvP.

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Its not funny to see the echoing outline of a stalker winding up to AS you, but still hit you even though you've gotten about 100 meters away from them, that definately needs a fix :P

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Sorry, but that would make ASing anyone but those AFK completely impossible (OK, so hold/stuns would make it possible, but not everyone has a power like that, and even then you'd need to hide again). You can't really expect someone to keep in meele range with a long charge time power that can be interrupted.

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What about creating areas on the maps where the speed of hiding is increased (dark shadow) and areas where hiding is slowed or prevented (light areas or heavily illuminated, featureless rooms). If thats too much work for them to put into existing maps, they could just set that during the night, hide kicks in faster, and in day, it doesnt? I dont know, im just throwing ideas out here..


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Not THAT is a good idea. Though, I doubt it can be implemented.

So, I sat down and started pondering a bit and decided to try and "build" (using a char builder for now) an EN/regen stalker for PvP. Here's what I came up with:

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Exported from Ver: 1.7.5.0 of the CoH_CoV Character Builder
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Name: Name ?
Level: 41
Archetype: Stalker
Primary: Energy Melee
Secondary: Regeneration
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01) --> Energy Punch==> Acc(1)Dmg(5)Dmg(5)Dmg(39)Acc(40)
01) --> Hide==> DefBuf(1)
02) --> Fast Healing==> Heal(2)Heal(3)Heal(3)
04) --> Bone Smasher==> Acc(4)Dmg(7)Dmg(7)Dmg(40)Acc(40)
06) --> Assassin's Strike==> Acc(6)Acc(11)Dmg(13)Dmg(13)Dmg(15)
08) --> Build Up==> Rechg(8)Rechg(9)Rechg(9)TH_Buf(11)
10) --> Dull Pain==> Rechg(10)Rechg(15)Rechg(17)Heal(17)Heal(19)
12) --> Placate==> Rechg(12)Rechg(19)Rechg(21)
14) --> Jump Kick==> Acc(14)Dmg(39)
16) --> Super Jump==> Jump(16)
18) --> Integration==> Heal(18)Heal(21)Heal(23)EndRdx(23)EndRdx(25)
20) --> Swift==> Run(20)
22) --> Health==> Heal(22)Heal(25)Heal(27)
24) --> Stamina==> EndMod(24)EndMod(27)EndMod(29)
26) --> Stun==> Acc(26)Acc(29)DisDur(31)DisDur(31)DisDur(31)
28) --> Stealth==> DefBuf(28)
30) --> Energy Transfer==> Acc(30)Acc(33)Dmg(33)Dmg(33)Dmg(34)
32) --> Reconstruction==> Rechg(32)Rechg(34)Heal(34)Heal(36)Heal(36)
35) --> Instant Healing==> Rechg(35)Rechg(36)Rechg(37)Heal(37)Heal(37)Heal(39)
38) --> Resilience==> DmgRes(38)

A few things if I may:
a) this is not a build that should be "followed", that is, I plan to get my stalker to lvl 32 using something completely different, and respec at lvl 32 to get the powers in that order.
b) I didn't take Total Focus, because it seems useless for PvP. Correct me if I'm wrong, but loosing all your endurance on one attack seems like a death wish.
c) I didn't take MoG because I heard people whine about it.
d) While I don't really like Jump Kick, I figured this build could use one more attack power. JK could be slotted with 2 ACC enhancements. OR... perhaps that one more enhancement would be better of as a health enhancement in Dull Pain?
e) I have no idea how much self-damage Energy Transfer does. Is it worth the risk in PvP?
f) I don't know, but Resilience looks a bit crappy... Disorient protection is already in Integration, and the resistance is small. Perhaps Energy Punch would be better? Although then some powers would need to be stripped of some enhancement slots to make it more powerful.

What about in PvP? Can you throw them at someone and still AS him/her? (Assuming he/she doesn't freak out and pull some AoE move.)

Uhm... I don't know 'bout those crits in PvP, but im 100% sure that in PvE AS get's resisted by some of the mobs: CoT ghosts, Freakshow Tanks, Cray Tanks... the like.

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I said that there's no point slotting for Disorient, because the ammount of time they're disoriented for doesn't matter.

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Well, if a stalker's out of luck and his mez protection runs out and the disorient's still there, he'll find himself rather suprised.

Than again, at this point he could be far, far away, on the top of some tall building, and all he'd have to do is wait for the disorient to go away.

I'd only like to add that Dark Pit is a waste IMHO. It's got poor accuracy, and the effect duration is very, very small. In order for this spell to be of any use, I think you need to slot it with 2 (I had it 2 slotted on my corruptor, and while it hit most white enemies, anything higher was a pain), if not 3 accuracy and 3 duration enhancements. And I think even then it wouldn't be that much good.

I have a feeling Union is getting more and more buggy.

More and more often I get server problems: can't enter a missoin (stuck on the generic loading screen), getting kicked off missions, or some crazy lag spikes. I even had a strange bug with a team-mate... we'd both enter the mission, but we could not find each other (as if we were in 2 different instances).

Is it really getting worse, or is it me?

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Thank you J_Sus! And thank you, G_Zeus, for fleshing out my point for me. If stalkers are so crapola as some ppl in this thread want us to believe. Howcome so many people are playing them? I.E. Playing PvE to get XP to level up to lvl 20 (Hey! That rhymes!) (Soul edit: Hey, it really does! ), so they can get into Sirens. Because, as you would have known if you'd been playing PvP, there is no xp for defeating players.

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Hold on... I think I lost the point here.

Stalkers ARE poor in PvE. Sure, they can complete missions, they can team with others, and they can AS minions quickly. But IMHO playing as a stalker in PvE is a bit boring, and much, much slower than playing... oh, let's say a corruptor (and don't even mention brutes... fury anyone? ). (EDIT: If someone mentions dominators; I'd like to point out that a dominator in a team has a LOT more uses. And I'd risk saying that some missions are VERY hard to complete without a dominator in the team.) A stalkers has also much less uses in a bigger team (AS, hide, AS, hide, A... damn, they hit me, hide...). So I wouldn't be suprised if people were making their stalkers with PvP in mind. This also means, that should the stalker be nerfed too much, a lot of people are gonna be less than happy. All the above is, obviously, only my opinion on the matter... I'm sure there's a number of stalkers who enjoy PvE content and have no intention to go PvP. That said, I still think such people are a minority.

So... now, what does this all have to do with the number of stalkers PvPing and PvEing? Cos *ehem* I seem to be missing the point of this argument.

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Hmm... You cant slot heal on kuji in retsu :S

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Yep... That leaves a most obvious choice of 3x defense and 3x recharge.

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If you want true skill in a game, go play Counter-Strike, I say.

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Forgive the off-topic, but...

YOU HAVE GOT TO BE JOKING!

*ehem*

Do go on...

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As to Tar Patch, the res debuff makes a significat boost at higher levels. I don't know the exact numbers, but mobs dies significantly quicker when I've got it on

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I'm not sure about this, but I think that the res debuff stays the same through all the levels. It's the damage at higher lvls that much more... well, damaging, thus more of it get's done to the target(s).

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And if you want to take on stalkers roll yourself a scrapper (5 AS in one fight and I stll walked out of it hey stalkobot)

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Bloody regen scrappers.

On a more serious note; which classes DO kill regen scrappers? That healing seems way over the top for PvP.

I never liked Jump Kick. Slow animation time, rather poor knockback chance, and you can't use it in the air. Although, if it CAN knockback EVERYTHING in PvP, then perhaps there IS a point in taking it after all.

Still, I think I'd rather have Air Superiority.

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You want it easy against bosses? I'm sure the rest of the player base has grudges against bosses also, but i very much doubt they want it easy against them. Other than Bosses and higher the game can get very repetitive and baring. You want bosses to be as easy as minions? It aint going to happen.
On my stalker i find bosses VERY easy, this is because of power choices i have made for pvp, ie placate caltrops build up etc (which as i have seen are essencial for pve also). Elite bosses i find VREY hard, but not impossible.

I suggest you look at you play style and power choices before saying such as you have.

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Aw Gods... I do NOT want them as easy as minions. But I CAN compare to how easy they are to defeat when I'm playing as a stalker and as a corruptor. As a corruptor, bosses are WAY easier than as a stalker.

As for builds, I got ALL the core stalker powers: build up, placate, defenses. And attacks. What ELSE should I get?

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Same way they interrupt TP Foe, Snipe and all the other interruptible powers; they dissuade your concentration.

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From now on if someone heals me, I'll say "Don't do that, you're breakig my concentration! I can't AS!"

I think it'll be a nice way to make people really confused, and to gain lots of debt too.