SortaKinda

I found a great post describing what a Premium member gets at the various Tiers, if they decide they never want to spend any more money, either in the store, or on a subscription. I felt myself thinking that eventually a person should be able to achieve Incarnate status as a Premium member, and honestly, that nothing should be encouraging a person to spend money at a certain point except on items from the store. As it stands, a VIP may have no further want or need of tokens, but will remain so for one reason: Incarnate status.

Okay, so devs, ask yourself: Is this model maybe a bit TOO greedy? I'm going to suggest the answer is yes, and explain why. Feel free to offer your counterpoints, if you have any. I'm sure many would be interested in what you have to say. Disclaimer: I was only looking up the Premium rewards for Tier 8, found out it was Large Insp drops (oh boy!) and then started running the numbers. It's come to my attention that your Premium customers are not getting anything close to a full value for their investment, whether they are starting today, or have been subscribing for years. Here's why:

Let's say for a minute that you've been playing since day 1, never let your subscription lapse, have everything you can possibly think of in terms of game items, and still continue to pay for whatever new doodad they come up with in the Store. This person is your cash cow. They aren't going anywhere, and many might feel they have had good reason to leave over the years, but still they remain loyal. Then you tell them that, even though they have what, 40 tokens leftover (I have no idea how many would be left after you fill Tier 9), they still cannot play their Incarnates unless they subscribe, which is a minimum of $12 or so a month, if they pay a year at a time, and $16ish for the "common man" who pays month to month because he/she wants to keep the lights on.

That's not a huge loss for most of us. Incarnate seems almost ridiculous when you consider most of these people are already fully IO'd and godlike without a level shift and insane powers that add interesting pets, procs, buffs, and AoE attacks. To me, you peaked at alpha, and everything else was sort of downhill from there. Eventually there are going to be TFs that will probably vaporize any lowly alpha-only player with his/her measly +1 level shift. Still, it is progress of a sort, and people, myself included, do like to "level up" in some fashion, so I partake in Incarnate level tasks from time to time. I guess what I'm saying is that nothing that you're offering to VIPs is all that special, apart from being an Incarnate, and the rest adds up to far less value than whatever they are paying a month. People are going to realize that, if they haven't already.

A person on day one would be smart to just buy points. For a one-time investment of approximately $500 (according to your numbers), that person would have a huge amount of points to spend in the store, and all the tokens necessary to enjoy almost everything in the game. VIPs currently get signature story arcs and Incarnates as the truly wonderful benefits of being a VIP, but how much is that worth, exactly? Is the cost of producing this new content SO high that you need to milk us twice, firing out new powersets at 800 points a pop, and forcing us to maintain our subscriptions to maintain our Incarnate status that we have earned as a VIP?

I doubt you'll take me seriously when I tell you this, and that's fine. I'm just putting it out there for you to ponder. There's an organic, cooperative way to do business, then there's the wrong way. If you feel like your subscriber base is suddenly slipping, I encourage you to not simply think of the competition out there, because in this particular niche of MMOs, you currently have none, nor of the age of the game, which while valid, because of the new content you inject quite rapidly, again would probably not be your root cause. Symptoms such as these often distract from the core problem, which I think in this case is not realizing that people have already spent quite a bit of time and money on this game, and should, at some magical dollar amount, be able to play their Incarnates at full power. I don't argue that Signature Story Arcs are fine to place in the store, and as I write this, they are on sale (all seven) for 1200 points. This is EXACTLY the way to go about it. $5 is maybe a little high for some, but eventually if a person is patient, they can get it for less than half that.

There absolutely no reason not to implement this strategy, preferably at Tier8, and lump that lame Large Inspiration bonus in at some lower Tier. If a person is at Tier8, they're more than likely not relying heavily on insps anyway unless they're farmers, and nobody with a fully functioning brain is suggesting you ever cater to farmers, as they obviously affect your bottom line.

Thanks for reading, I hope you will give my suggestions some serious consideration!

-sk

PS: Content was slightly edited from my original post, but the core message is the same. Again, I invite someone in a position to debate these arguments to show me why this model would not net you as much or more money than you could ever expect to get with your existing one. Every company, including this one, says they value their long-standing customers, but they never quite implement a model that backs it up. Talk is cheap. Let's see some action.

I appreciate it, ZM. I was thinking the same thing when I looked at where I was posting this message. I'll see about getting it put over there, or contributing to an existing thread.

Thanks!

Okay, so devs, ask yourself: Is this model maybe a bit TOO greedy? I'm going to suggest the answer is yes, and explain why. Feel free to offer your counterpoints, if you have any. I'm sure many would be interested in what you have to say. Disclaimer: I was only looking up the Premium rewards for Tier 8, found out it was Large Insp drops (oh boy!) and then started running the numbers. It's come to my attention that your Premium customers are not getting anything close to a full value for their investment, whether they are starting today, or have been subscribing for years. Here's why:

Let's say for a minute that you've been playing since day 1, never let your subscription lapse, have everything you can possibly think of in terms of game items, and still continue to pay for whatever new doodad they come up with in the Store. This person is your cash cow. They aren't going anywhere, and you've given them plenty of reasons to do so over the years. Then you tell them that, even though they have what, 40 tokens leftover (I have no idea how many would be left after you fill Tier 9), they still cannot play their Incarnates unless they subscribe, which is a minimum of $12 or so a month, if they pay a year at a time, and $16ish for the "common man" who pays month to month because he/she wants to keep the lights on. That's not a huge loss for most of us. Incarnate seems almost ridiculous when you consider most of these people are already fully IO'd and godlike without a level shift and insane powers that add interesting pets, procs, buffs, and AoE attacks. To me, you peaked at alpha, and everything else was sort of downhill from there. Eventually there are going to be TFs that will probably vaporize any lowly alpha-only player with his/her measly +1 level shift. But I digress...

A person on day one would be smart to just buy points. For a one-time investment of approximately $500 (according to your numbers), that person would have a huge amount of points to spend in the store, and all the tokens necessary to enjoy almost everything in the game. VIPs currently get signature story arcs and Incarnates as the truly wonderful benefits of being a VIP, but how much is that worth, exactly? Is the cost of producing this new content SO high that you need to milk us twice, firing out new powersets at 800 points a pop, and letting us know that we still need to maintain our subscriptions? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that's double-dipping, a faux pas in both social situations when lowering a carrot stick into the ranch dressing, as well as when trying to demonstrate that you actually care about the customers who are keeping YOUR lights on.

I doubt you'll take me seriously when I tell you this, and that's fine. I'm just putting it out there for you to ponder. There's an organic, cooperative way to do business, then there's the wrong way. If you feel like your subscriber base is suddenly slipping, I encourage you to not simply think of the competition out there, because in this particular niche of MMOs, you currently have none, nor of the age of the game, which while valid, because of the new content you inject quite rapidly, again would probably not be your root cause. Symptoms such as these often distract from the core problem, which I think in this case is not realizing that people have already spent quite a bit on this game, and should, at some magical dollar amount, be able to play their Incarnates at full power. I don't argue that Signature Story Arcs are fine to place in the store, and as I write this, they are on sale (all seven) for 1200 points. This is EXACTLY the way to go about it. $5 is maybe a little high for some, but eventually if a person is patient, they can get it for less than half that.

There absolutely no reason not to implement this strategy, preferably at Tier8, and lump that lame Large Inspiration bonus in at some lower Tier. If a person is at Tier8, they're more than likely not relying heavily on insps anyway unless they're farmers, and nobody with a fully functioning brain is suggesting you ever cater to farmers, as they obviously affect your bottom line.

Thanks for reading, I hope you will give my suggestions some serious consideration!

-sk

I have to ask this, even if it's been asked before (and I did do a search). Okay, so you finish a trial, and you get a random component at the end, either common, uncommon, rare, or very rare. I feel like there ought to be some kind of streakbreaker associated with that, because honestly, pure random sucks, at least for the unfortunate. I've done poorly on TFs, and well, so I'm not suggesting that the people who do the most "work" get the best rewards. What I'm suggesting is that whatever system you use to award incarnate components at the end is horribly broken. I've received at least 30 rewards from various sources (the DA missions, iTrials, etc.) and EVERY time, without fail, I've gotten a common or uncommon reward. Others are the opposite. It does not seem tied to any sort of metric that I can affect, and it does not track how often a person might get nothing of value and give them a break by "streakbreaking" that person a rare or very rare drop. All time spent on a TF is equally valuable to all participants. It's only fair that you eventually reward all that time spent with something of significance in terms of Incarnate components.

I hope you will consider an improvement to the system as it currently stands.

Yeah, this needs to be fixed ASAP. It's something that was poorly implemented and could be easily fixed. You already have a category of item that can only be mailed to your own global. I don't remember offhand what exactly that item was, though. Anyway, whatever that item is, copy the code for how those items are collected and patch in a conversion process for the first time each character logs in. Simple, right?

See, and that's exactly the point. Nobody in support even knows what's going on when you first submit the ticket. You end up going back and forth three or four times for an issue that doesn't need to exist. There's no way you can tell me it would be that hard to set up a couple of new database fields tied to more accurate renewal data that would grant the points and token at the beginning of the subscription rather than the end.

@Hyperstrike: I agree, that's a good way to approach the problem. I think the evidence is pretty compelling, however, that the problem exists, has existed since Freedom went live, and that efforts to get it remedied seem to go mostly unheard. I requested a Red Name post simply to try to get some sort of "voice from the other side" to share their side of things with us, the paying (cough...keyword...cough) customers. It's not my intention to start any sort of war. I mean, what's to argue, really? Is it okay for us to have the value of our purchase reduced by a glitch in the system? I think not. I would simply like to hear that sentiment echoed by someone with a chance, however remote, of remedying it.

So... what I'm hearing is this:

You send in a support ticket on a problem that directly results in a lessening of value to the customer, BY DESIGN, and the support people say something to the effect of: "I really hear what you're saying, and I agree, but as the system currently stands, this broken system that continually rips you off is all that we have. Here's a thought! Go post on the forums! The developers read them often, and take their ideas from them on improvements that can be made to the game."

According to Taiyanna, any redname that replies to me and agrees is not in any position to see those changes implemented? What about Posi? What about Ghost Witch? I refuse to believe that coming here, posting a well-constructed argument that shows a discrepancy in how rewards for subscriptions are awarded will simply be ignored by anyone in a position to do something about it?

Ok, that IS something I'd like an answer to, by a red name, if possible. Is making suggestions, especially those as pertinent as this one, in the forums pointless, or does it actually help prioritize updates?

I just wanted to chip in my thoughts about the way points and tokens are awarded based on how I renew, which is periodically, usually with time cards, but sometimes with a standard subscription of a month or more. I don't auto-renew, because I never know what things might be like in a month, so there might be time I need to drop back to Premium. However, if things change, I often renew my VIP status. I don't keep track of my dates, I simply pay for more months or days in some fashion (since as we all know at this point, a 30 day or 60 day timecard is just that, regardless of whether you use it in February (28/29 days), you still get your full amount of days.

Unfortunately, the reward system does not currently line up with how people like myself play, and as a VIP, by definition, I think it should. Are we not the "best and brightest" of your subscriber base, at least from a press release standpoint? Here's the letter I posted to support. I wanted to add it here for everyone to discuss, especially those in a position to implement the changes, because I feel it's the only way to be fair to everyone and provide the value that I'm sure Paragon Studios is hoping to provide to their excellent game.

[message begins]
I would like to suggest a change in how rewards are given based on providing real value to the VIP who chooses to pay for a subscription on a F2P game. Currently, it appears VIP Paragon Point rewards (400/550 a month) are awarded based on the date the account was created, which then becomes the renewal date. This date never changes, so it creates a disparity between people who don't continually renew, and those who do. Those who have a lapse in their account end up getting LESS value than those who keep their accounts active constantly, due to their rewards being based around a now arbitrary date that has no relation to their actual renewal date once they resubscribe.

Furthermore, awarding the VIP tokens at the end of the month, rather than the beginning, shows another slight toward VIPs who must wait for their rewards, rather than people who play for "free" but buy points from your store every month, and get their rewards immediately, with a bonus every year or so of another token. Incentives are certainly there for spending a year's worth of money up front, getting a massive amount of tokens and points, and then perhaps finding a decent deal once in awhile on a retail box to play as a "full" VIP with all the other swag they've had since the beginning of the year.

Perhaps this is exactly how you intended your business model to be. However, it is certainly not a fair and equitable model, and it is not a model that supports your statements to the press. You have stated time and time again that you value your VIPs and that you want them to feel like their subscription dollars are worth it. I put to you that these practices do not reflect this stance. I'd ask that instead of just adding content and more items to the store, you first focus on making the VIP reward system a bit more rewarding by implementing the following changes:

Tie account renewals to the reward system: Make it so both tokens and points are awarded at the beginning of the month, so that the VIP has access to both of them from day one, the moment they are able to log in.

I think if you're going to make statements about how important your subscriber base is to you, you should take these suggestions to heart. You'll still make plenty of money from your store, I promise! Check my account. I bought 1320 points the moment I was awarded my 400 for the month. If I'd gotten those on day one of my renewal, so too would you have received an extra purchase from me, because I needed those 400 points to be able to afford what I wanted to buy.
[message ends]

This is basic economics, money you have now is worth more than that same money sometime in the future. Whether it's a few days, or a few weeks, shouldn't you be giving the players the most value for their purchases, and by extension, reaping the most rewards by doing so? I think this is what they call a "win-win" scenario, so let's stop repeating the same message of "this is how the system currently does it, and all I can do is explain that to you and apologize for the inconvenience," and start saying "This is how it should have been all along and we apologize for the delay in making it right. As a way of making it right, we will award everyone 400 Paragon Points on the day our new reward system rolls out." Okay, maybe the bonus points is just wishful thinking, but given how long this has been going on, it feels like the right thing to do.

I think we need to divorce the idea of "earned" from what we purchase. When I purchase an electronic asset from City of Heroes, there's no reason that it shouldn't be awarded at the same time, since all that needs to be done is having proper code written to do so. Nobody needs to forge my token over 30 days, and there's no logical reason that I should be set on a timer when I subscribe. Do people spending $15 on Paragon Points wait 30 days? It's a glaring problem in the reward system, and it's time that it became a top-shelf resolution. I brought this up when Issue 21 was released, and still it remains in Issue 22. I'm all for new content, but I think perhaps ensuring that every paying customer is treated equally takes priority over that, don't you?

Thanks for taking the time to read my lengthy post. I hope something can be done soon to remedy this issue.

I appreciate this information. I have 16GB myself, and hardly any of it is being used! It galls me to get these out of memory errors when I have so much! Here's hoping this fix will improve things, since they've gotten pretty bad lately! I'll post whether or not this happens again after one of my marathon gaming sessions (takes a few hours normally).

Ok, did something just 'splode? I crashed and can't get back on...

I've run five or six so far, all successes. Never was part of a PUG type where I was ported in. Tried a Lamba, as well, was going awesome, but then it just evaporated, not sure if the leader DC'ed or what, but poof, we were done. shrug... bug? Intentional? Who knows... I've been on teams where the leader knew what he was doing, though. This helps. Sometimes the leader isn't a very NICE person, but they are at least willing to provide direction and boss people around when they're not paying attention. There's far too many people who have their own agenda and just go off and do their own thing. I want teams that size to start using the chat, acknowledging people, etc. Better yet, if you're going to have teams this size, implement an in-game voice chat, so we can coordinate fully with minimal hassle. At least that way people can HEAR what needs to be done if they don't bother to look at their chat window.

I enjoy the trials, but they're super grindy to me, and a huge step back for the Incarnate system as a whole. It's like another job, and makes me think this must be what endgame is like on other very popular MMOGs. The random element of the drops and rewards means that some people will get the shaft, others will prosper, and most will meet somewhere in the middle of that. Fine, fine, but at least give me a solo option to help compensate for the issues my pathetic luck creates for me, k? And no, shard conversion is NOT a reasonable alternative to actual thread drops for a soloist.

kthxbye

Yep, having the same problem. Not sure I can trace it to anything specific except maybe a graphics driver change? I was messing with different drivers, finally started using the Tesla 263.06 driver, and it's been much better than my latest 260.99 GeForce driver. I THINK my lockups started occurring after that point...

I mentioned this in another thread, but it bears repeating: There ARE new drivers on Guru3D that will work for Win7 (359.32). I'm using them now and, while not perfect, are perfectly play-worthy in CoX. They aren't official (they won't be found on NVidia's site), so use at your own risk, but I haven't crashed so far, and I have upped my settings significantly. Praetoria never looked better!

Ok, I've done some tweaking and got the framerates to respectable levels, although it does drop near the television station in Imperial City for some reason (all the TV screens? Not sure...) Anyway, in missions my framerate stays up around 45-80fps, and outside, It's in the 30s most of the time. My settings aren't maxed by any means, but I did get all the detail settings to max, with decent looking shadows, occlusion, etc. I'm definitely looking at a prettier game, especially the character models! So, if you're dying to try your GTX 460 out on the new zones, I'd say give these new drivers a try! Oh yeah, NO crashing whatsoever, GPU staying at a reasonable 62C @ 73% fanspeed (auto setting) with an aircooled (but admittedly very good airflow designed) case.

Edit: Okay, there's definitely more tweaking that needs to be done for the GTX 460 on this game, but it's definitely playable at respectably high settings. On a brighter note, Mafia II looks and plays amazing! Buttery smooth, incredible detail, just a great experience overall (and that was another game that wasn't performing well with those 258.32 drivers). So... I'd say CoX is doable with these latest drivers, but we should see some better ones here in a few weeks!

For all you GTX 460 owners out there: There are 259.32 drivers available for Windows 7 (x86 and x64) available on Guru3D. I am using them now with my new card and while I am not that impressed, I CAN play the game with them. They haven't locked me up or anything. If that changes, I will let you all know. I installed the card LATE last night, had enough time to overclock it to 900/1800/2000, ensure solid temps, loaded the game, then ran around Praetoria for a bit.

I say I'm not impressed because my framerates SHOULD be higher and I should be able to ratchet up the settings a bit. Right now I just seem to be able to get comparable performance to my old card (GTX 260 SC).

I thought I'd let you all know, just in case you've been chomping at the bit to play and/or install your new card!

Yeah, folks, don't get excited yet, it's still broken. You can get on, but there's something terribly wrong with the mapserver. Netgraph shows constant green spikes, ping is in the 2000 range, it's completely unplayable. I think they know by now that something's broken on Virtue, so give it 2-3 hours and try back. I'm guessing there's some sort of hardware failure involved.

Yes, I'm having the same issue, I can't login with any characters. I never thought to see if it was only Virtue-specific. Let me check that... What do you know, you're right! I got into Infinity no problem! So yeah, having problems with Virtue, but surprised that more people haven't replied...

Good to know! Thanks for the info. I SHOULD be getting the card tomorrow. Here's hoping the beta drivers arrive before my card shows up! (crossing fingers!)

I don't think I could have asked for a more exciting and enjoyable upgrade. There's something for everyone, I think, from soloists (like myself) to the larger SGs. I think this might just be the best paid expansion I've ever seen (not that I've seen a lot of them, but still...)! What you've done to the feeling of the game is nothing short of incredible. I love how you have started to make choices matter, and look forward to what other sorts of "branching" ideas you incorporate into the game. Truly, an amazing job, and while there might be a small bit of tweaking that needs to be done, this was a very clean release for a very significant upgrade to the game. Keep up the good work, folks!

Ok, so based on what people were saying about this video card, I went ahead and ordered an MSI one for $200 (I could have spent a bit more, but I have this thing about never spending more than 200 on a video card, and this one looks like a decent upgrade for the price). Could some people who are using the 460 let me know if I'm going to run into driver issues like our friend here?

Since it seems we have some fairly tech-savvy people on this thread, please give me your opinions on what would be a good performance upgrade:

Specs:
Asus P5K Deluxe Wifi mobo
Q6600 @3.2GHz w/ Zalman Fan
80GB SSD (Intel)
2x 150GB Velociraptors in RAID0
2x 1TB WD Green HDs in RAID0
800W Thermaltake PS
EVGA GTX260 Superclocked
8GB GSkill High Performance Memory
Asus Xonar Soundcard

I'm definitely not at the top of the heap with any of my hardware running Win7 x64:

Processor: 7.3
Memory: 7.3
Graphics: 7.2
Gaming Graphics: 7.2
Primary HD: 7.6

I get the feeling that this new video card could raise my score by .3 or so, and that there would be some benefit in-game at least in terms of consistent framerates (I'm happy with how the game looks with my current settings, but I love when the game runs buttery smooth).

Thoughts?

And thanks, in advance!

Since I have such a good LGA775 processor, I am not thinking much out there would improve my processor speeds.