Snow Globe

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  1. Snow Globe

    Issue 17: Badges

    Updated the original post with a couple of tidbits about the Positron's Task Force. Namely you keep the badge if you already have it, and that the original TF is available through the Flashback System.
  2. Snow Globe

    Issue 17: Badges

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
    No known exploration badges missing at this point. If anyone finds an exploration badge not on this list, please post the details.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nericus View Post
    I don't think any were missing, but the easy way is to get them per zone and see if you get the accolade badge for that zone for getting all the exploration badges.
    Well, there are several zones without exploration accolades in Issue 17.

    • Bloody Bay
    • Siren's Call
    • Warburg
    • Recluse's Victory
    • The Hive
    • The Abyss
    • Rikti War Zone
    • Pocket D
    • All four Shadow Shards
    • Monster Island
    • Crey's Folly
    • Eden
    There is a chance (a small one, but still there) that we missed something that might exist.
  3. Snow Globe

    Issue 17: Badges

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim View Post
    So... what if you already have the Positron's Ally badge? Do you have to redo both of these task forces to get it? I hope not.
    You keep Positron's Ally if you already have it.
  4. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man View Post
    I was doing no such thing (but I do understand how it could come across that way). It just annoyed me that Snow was implying that nobody else has 700 badges other than Beef Cake.
    I seldom read sigs or the leader boards on either Badge Hunter or City Info Terminal.
  5. Snow Globe

    Issue 17: Badges

    Now that Open Beta has started, here is the list of known new badges.

    Thanks to all the Beta Testers for helping to find these badges.

    Mission Badges:
    Hero missions:
    The Fairest - Complete Keith Nance's story arc.
    Singular Vision - Complete Jenni Adair's story arc.
    Rule of Three - First of the new Positron's Task Forces.
    Dam Hero - Second of the new Positron's Task Forces.

    Positron's Ally change - Need both Rule of Three and Dam Hero to earn this accolade.
    Notes:
    • You keep the Positron's Ally badge if you've had it before.
    • You can still do the OLD Positron's TF through the Flashback system as "The New Recruits"

    Villain missions:
    Bane of Ajax - Complete Dean MacArthur's story arc.
    Explosive Finale - Complete Leonard's story arc.


    Defeat Badges:
    Hero:

    Villain:
    Army of Me - Complete Leonard's mission where you fight 8 clones of yourself.

    "Badge" Badges:

    500 badges:
    Seeker -
    Hero text: You're a hero recognized for your wide range or accomplishments, but you're not done yet!
    Villain text: You're a villain who'll do whatever it takes to get what they want, and you've only just begun.


    750 badges:
    Adventurer -
    Hero text: You've explored your world and tackled dangerous obstacles that would fell lesser heros. However, you get the distinct impression there is still much left to do.
    Villain text:


    Paragon exploration badges brief list:
    (Note on the explore badges: You don't need any of the new badges for the Base TP beacons.)

    Issue 17 badges in yellow.

    Atlas Park:
    Accolade - Atlas Park Tour Guide
    • Undefeated - (633 84.5 -2324 ())
    • Silent Sentinel - (-608 70 -1890 ())
    • Hero Corps Insider - (284 16 -884 ())
    • Patriot - (159.5 -768 -672 ())
    • Top Dog - (133.5 313.5 -340 ())
    • Freedom - (129 121.5 -641 ())
    • Edge of Chaos - (-175.8 -593.5 -927.0 (It is just as you get out of the elevator leading to RV.))
    • Observant - (-136.0 -93.7 471.0 (Inside the Vanguard base.))

    Hollows:
    Accolade - Wincott's Ally
    • Parapsychologist - (-704 379 885 ())
    • Seeker of Monsters - (21 -345 -1280 ())
    • Geologist - (-749 -539 -1647 ())
    • Backwoodsman - (-2150 42 3332 ())
    • Gangland Fury - (-728 -11 -3518 ())
    • Graffiti Communicator - (-1380.5 494.0 1495.2, on a radio outpost with graffiti painted on)
    • Circle Seeker - (1729.5 166.2 2066.4 (on top of one of the stone arches))
    • Ironic - (205.8 129.2 -3160.0 (On the rooftop of a building with the sign "Pinnacle Apartments". The marker is directly in front of the sign.))

    Galaxy City:
    Accolade - Galactic Explorer
    • Bird Watcher - (-1099 48 -2264 ())
    • Blue Shield - (-1170 39 -2470 ())
    • Brawler - (-1184 63 -936 ())
    • Tank - (-1178 73 -586 ())
    • Land Locked - (-2036 -43 1000 ())
    • Galactic Fan - (919.1 32.3 -831.3 Galaxy Girl's statue.)
    • Eye of the Gemini - (-1375.2 0.3 347.5 (West of the marker for Gemini Park))
    • Orion's Belt - (-1698.6 3.5 -2211.6(At a hero statue in Orion's Beltway.))

    Kings Row:
    Accolade - PPD Informant
    • Summoned - (-940 -42 2977.5 ())
    • Upgraded - (-496 101.5 768 ())
    • Mystic King/Mystic Queen - (-376 70.5 245 ())
    • Keen Sighted - (-2176 97 1143 ())
    • Smokey - (-3042 -42 -1357 ())
    • Pwned - (475.3 -41.7 -2684.7 (In front of the pawn shop.))
    • Man/Woman of Vengeance - (572.8 -41.7 704.8 (At the entrance to the vacant lot west of the PPD))
    • Wentworth History Buff (-1089.2 -41.6 895.9 (At entrance of the construction site northwest of Wentworth's))

    Faultline:
    Accolade - Faultline Finder
    • Apex - (373 -125 134 ())
    • Drowned Rat - (150 -51 2360 ())
    • Egg Hunter - (-908 -183 109 ())
    • Escape Artist - (-679 -167 -208 ())
    • Faultless Mystic - (821 95 -1154 ())
    • Newsman / Newsgirl - (1125 -25 1295 ())
    • Old Fashioned - (-170 74 -1504 ())
    • Undammed - (-820 -159 1033 ())

    Steel Canyon:
    Accolade - Canyon Carver
    • Secret Admirer - (-3438 0 2536 ())
    • Hero Corps Recruit - (-1764 16 1364 ())
    • Nimble Mynx - (-2428 48 -3408 ())
    • Bright Star - (-2987 -36 1820 ())
    • Dance Legend - (-4315.7 -99.7 1782.9 (Behind the big building at the base of the stairs near the yellow line.))
    • Controversial - (-4609.5 3.1 -2618.0 (Right by the SG teleporter drop off))
    • Pet Project - (-4072.1 0.3 -3296.7 (Near the construction.))
    • Dirty Attorney - (-2169.9 -83.9 -1225.7 (South of the Platinum Lake Marker.))

    Skyway City:
    Accolade - Sky Gazer
    • Purifier - (-1085 -16 -7612 ())
    • Solace - (2260 -84 -3367 ())
    • Dauntless - (-706 0 -1077 ())
    • Healing Node - (1577 -84 -677 ())
    • Better Days - (2118.2 28.9 -2378.0 (Between hand and foot of statue beside Jake Montoya.))
    • Room for Expansion - (688.7 0.2 -140.5 (The driveway between the Faultline entrance and the helicopter to Bloody Bay.))
    • Left Behind - (-1217.1 3.8 -2367.7 (On a stone platform, east of Hide Park.))
    • Bridge to Nowhere - (252.5 -12.5 -3642.7 (Center of an uncompleted bridge section.))

    Croatoa:
    Accolade - Citizen of Salamanca
    • Grim Wanderer - (762 48 -2440 ())
    • Spiritual - (-2669 11 1102 ())
    • Ensorcelled - (1018 159 -1090 ())
    • Barrier Holder - (385.4 0.9 1688.8 (In the pond in the middle of the park.))
    • Sally Sightseer - (-503.0 -25.5 1192.2 (At the umbrella and chair on the beach))
    • Jack's Wrath - (778.6 0.3 -1493.5 (Ruins NE of Katie Hannon.))
    • Waylon's Observer - (2639.1 10.3 1501.0 (On the porch of the cabin on the west edge of New Connaught)
    • Midnighter's Perseverence - (-2068.5 0.5 471.1 (the middle of the wooden bridge near where the BYN mish starts.))

    Talos Island:
    Accolade - Island Hopper
    • Minotaur - (1698 16 7697 ())
    • Nature Lover - (2672 124 9117 ())
    • Whitecap - (-5613 80 1855 ())
    • Last Line of Defense - (-965.5, 228.1 6909.0 (Just a few yards west of where the Ouroboros portal drops you off in Talos))
    • The Old Me - (-1183.9 7.5 2131.8 (74 yards west of Circe Island marker on the beach in center of island.))
    • Bridge Holder - (1914.0 96.0 7231.4 (On the bridge leading to the main island.))
    • Overtime Worker - (-3707.1 96.3 8628.9 (Paved area directly west of Dark Astoria Gate.))
    • Spanky's Competitor - (-2417.3 161.0 7963.4 (Top of wooden stairs near tech store.))

    Brickstown:
    Accolade - Zig Warden
    • Mystic - (-*********** ())
    • Inmate - (-1726 24 1153 ())
    • Flying Shark - (-2188.9 573.0 1162.3 (At the top of the Ziggurat.))
    • Fugitive - (-3820.9 -46.7 -182.2 (North entrance to the Dark Waters neighborhood.))
    • Forward Thinker - (394.3 31.8 -1344.7 (Right in the middle of the Mashu Bridge.))
    • Secret Path - (270.2 -59.2 2192.3 (It's the door that's beneath the basketball court south of the hospital.))
    • Sixth Passenger - (-2810.5 -42.6 2569.0 (Wrecked car that's buried under the road))
    • Unsubtle - (-2259.3 -63.7 -1578.8 (Underground part of Abyss Towers.))

    Independence Port:
    Accolade - IP Address
    • Crey Havoc - (-441 2 -271 ())
    • Valorous - (947 609 -1152 ())
    • Vigorous - (-1615 80 -1872 ())
    • Air Lifter - (173.1 159.8 22.5 (38yds NNE or TV gate, sitting in middle of rt lane)
    • Dead End - (2213.0 0.3 4736.3 (In a cargo container maze.))
    • Family Partier - (-12.0 -20.7 2376.0 (Docks on south side of Terra Volta Island, near bottom of ramp.))
    • Connector - (-1087 96 -7118 (Due west of the AE building, center of the road.))
    • Unlucky - (2044.2 0.3 -9663.8 (Right in front of the Freedom Corps store.))

    Founder's Falls:
    Accolade - Lost and Found
    • Foggy - (968 0 2621 ())
    • Chaotician - (815 -21 2402 ())
    • Guardian Angel - (3775.6 0.4 505.9 (On the north edge of the fountain at Willaims Square, by Tina Cheng.))
    • Losing Paradise - (5110.8 64.0 4610.0 (Right in front of the Eden Gate.))
    • Watchful Eyes - (4244.7 260.9 4572.3 (Sitting right beside Indigo.))
    • Hamidon's Fury - (26.9 0.4 3453.5 (The end of the walkway Ginger Yates is on.)
    • Founders' Hero - (1689.0 9.4 638.9 (In front of Janet Kellum and Maxwell Christopher.))
    • Misunderstood - (1125.9 -15.7 2147.6 (Right beside Agent Six.))

    Peregrine Island:
    Accolade - Portal Corp Analyst
    • Portal Parter - (3045 0 1287 ())
    • Use Might for Right - (1423.9, 0.3, -773.6 (Just a few yards north of Ghost Falcon))
    • Cause for Concern - (-1767.3, -207.7, -3745.7 (Under the first arch of the metal detector looking machine you pass through to get to the portals))
    • Genetically Altered - (-1512.2 0.0 -6338.3 (Inside giant skeleton))
    • Rikti Gone Wild - (-2894.0 0.3 -6949.4, (Broken fence))
    • Shades of Arachnos - (-2534.8 -1.2 -8275.3 (The small island at the top of the Cutlass Island area.))
    • All-Seeing - (-712.2 56.3 -2142.4 (It's on the top level of the fire escape that the statue is "looking" at.))
    • Dark Omen - (355.3 -18.5 -8975.8 (Topmost island, by a skull))


    Rogue Isles exploration badges brief list:

    Mercy Island:
    Accolade - Mercy Mariner
    • Cesspool - (-322 68 -2656 ())
    • Snake Charmer - (-385 42 -1712 ())
    • Chum - (-4048 6 -1854 ())
    • Fortified - (-2497 304 -440 ())
    • The Next Big Thing - (-1215 239 -153 ())
    • Widower/Widow - (-3890 407 354 ()) *Bug Fixed*
    • First Rule - (-74.6 65.3 -1602.1 (Triangular pit next to "Eliminate Infected" building.))
    • Tiki Fan - (-1835.3 239.2 436.3 (Outside the door of the mission you get to rob the tiki casino.))

    Port Oakes:
    Accolade - Marcone Insider
    • Scurvy Dog - (-2852 82 1216 ())
    • Washed Up - (-3903 16 -1369 ())
    • Powder Monkey - (-3738 238 -1128 ())
    • Driller - (1030 8 1982 ())
    • Long Walk - (-703.4 128.3 211.8 (In the underground parking lot.))
    • Big Spider - (-1024.1 96.9 -898.0 (At the bottom of the step of SG building.))
    • Commuter's Woe - (1771.2 63.8 -694.7 (At the tunnel that is blocked to Cap au Diable.))
    • Hidden Getaway - (363.6 128.3 -2423.4 (The house by itself near the sub for king row bank mission.))

    Cap au Diable:
    Accolade - Mad Science Supporter
    • Sparky - (-2432 294 -1248 ())
    • Media Junky - (-894 248 -1458 ())
    • Egghead - (941 98 -1441 ())
    • Steamed - (-2426 224 -472 ())
    • Sweet Tooth - (-222 0 -2136 ())
    • Doom Sayer - (2234 0 -1330 (Near a bulldozer, about 130 yards west of the Vagabond Hills marker. ))
    • Master of Science - (-444.1 430.1 -326.6 (On top of globe in Aeon City.))
    • Circle Gazer - (-130.8 37.2 -2394.1 (Top of a CoT shrine on the northern shore of the Island.))

    Sharkhead Isle:
    Accolade - Jumped the Shark
    • Razor Toothed - (460 -14 1653 ())
    • Forged by Hellfire - (1970 64 -192 ())
    • Freak of Nature - (1229 90 -2183 ())
    • Pit Viper - (148 -377 1500 ())
    • Sky Chaser - (302.6 127.3 2307.8 (On the Sky Raider platform that doesn't have a turret.))
    • Unwelcome Guest - (-633.6 0.8 1437.0 (At the gate to the Council area.))
    • Sky Trader - (-2076.7 56.3 511.7 (At the front door of the large mansion on Villa Requin with the pool in its court.))
    • Carping the Diem - (-3.4 8.3 -1986.7 (Deck of the ship that's in dry dock.))

    Nerva Archipelago:
    Accolade - Nerva Navigator
    • Watcher on the Knoll - (-93 85 5434 ())
    • Locked and Loaded - (3286 126 3645 ())
    • Nerva Wreck - (1388 10 2876 ())
    • Primal Instinct - (2304 -110 798 ())
    • Tree Hugger - (-165 12 -180 ())
    • Unethical Tourist - (-644.0 16.1 6710.9(Crey cage area.))
    • Blind Eye - (3525.9 140.8 3886.4 (In the Longbow camp, near the holding cages in one building.))
    • Soother - (1237.1 81.4 1396.0 (Behind waterfall.))

    St. Martial:
    Accolade - Johnny's Go To Guy/Gal
    • Deuces Wild - (-3325 -29 -436 ())
    • Crimelord - (-896 9 -1,496 ()) *Bug Fixed*
    • Stonekeeper - (-2560 116 3009 ())
    • Camel Snot - (-1885 595 2046 ())
    • Dead Man's Tree - (1672.3 121.3 -2228.2 (Dead Tree with skeleton hanging from it.))
    • Slumlord - (-202.5 -74.2 -853.5 (In the huts beneath the roads where some Freaks hang out.))
    • Infamous Rubble - (-4838.3 154.3 1878.9 (Top of the Rubble heap.))
    • Showstopper - (-2200.3 15.5 -1953.3 (Entrance of Carnies Tent Town.))

    Grandville:
    Accolade - Arachnos Spymaster
    • Overlord - (1358 -441 -596 ())
    • Sewer Dweller - (2682 -443 -731 ())
    • Guttersnipe - (2861.5 -475 2310 ())
    • Master/Mistress of the Airwaves - (2726 734 1043 ())
    • Passing Fab - (2489.5 -848.5 -3014.8 (In the Fab, at the entrance to the tunnel that leads underwater.))
    • Image Crasher - (2677.5 243.4 828.1 (In front of the LARGE television screen kinda near Viridian.))
    • Line Holder - (1728.6 -399.7 656.1 (East Ward 2 Lift marker.))
    • Gutter Bait - (2573.8 -281.7 -236.7 (On a ledge overlooking the gutter, east of the marker.)

    Still missing as of this posting:

    No known exploration badges missing at this point. If anyone finds an exploration badge not on this list, please post the details.
  6. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man View Post
    You should earn it the day you pay for your 4th month.
    Maybe... 90 days. If you will qualify for a Vet Reward in a pay period, your NCsoft CoH account page will tell you when you should get it.
  7. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
    There are still forty stickies in the announcement forum! *foams at the mouth*

    edit: Actually, there are forty-three stickies in the announcement forum now! *dies of foam-mouth*
    I agree, it is actually hard to find the new announcements due to all the stickies in the announcement section... This kind of defeats the whole purpose of the section.
  8. Quote:
    Originally Posted by AquaJAWS View Post
    Fairly common issue that the vet rewards don't reward at the right time. Been doing it for a while now. Just petition or send a bug report, and they are usually pretty quick to respond and fix it for ya.
    Don't send a /bug report expecting a response. Use /petition instead.
  9. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man View Post
    This badge is actually from the CoH DVD collector's edition, not the CoV one. The CoV collector's edition only had an extra cape with an Arachnos logo, if memory serves.

    Unfortunately, unless you stumble across a copy at your local BigLots, the only way to really get the CoH DVD code is to purchase a Hero Gear kit at Hero Con (and I'm not even sure those come with a DVD code anymore)...
    Right, forgot to add that one (VIP/Destined One) to my list. The Pocket D Gold Club is still "available", even if you have to purchase it with real money (which, I feel, puts it also into the "whatever" badges).
  10. Ok, I'm looking at revising this FAQ for Issue 16-17. Does anything need to be purged or added to the FAQ?

    There are a lot of points that I know of already like:
    Epic Badge discussions (completely died, it seems)
    Isolator/Jail Bird (Section needs to be changed to reflect that you can get them after the tutorial.)
    Any updates mentioned above.

    I'd like to know if I should separate the sections and have several smaller guides (posted into the guides section) to make things easier to read. Feel free to let me know.
  11. Quote:
    Originally Posted by theOcho View Post
    I love this idea too, it's a constant project whenever I see a big mass of stickies. This is one area where the OCR team can really use your folks help, so pm me (as moderator 08) when you see redundant or outdated stickies.

    Thanks,
    Ok, but please hold off the Badge FAQ (Top of the badge section) until I get a copy, please? I forget where my original is, and I need to get the rest of the updates that people added too.
  12. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man View Post
    Hey, I've got 700 too.
    I fail to see the need to celebrate the fact that only people with (a) Passport (unavailable to most players) or (b), Bug Hunter (available to even less players), or both can get to 700 badges currently.

    I find it far more worthy to recognize those that get all the badges except Bug Hunter, Passport, all the Vet Rewards, all the Anniversary Badges (and the 5th Column Gladiator), and Power Liberator/Thief. That would be an even playing field, but those badges that not everyone has equal availability to get all of? Meh.
  13. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf View Post
    Gratz!! to those who've climbed back to 700+
    So, just Beef_Cake, huh?

    Besides, to get to 700, a person would have to have all the current Vet rewards AND Bug Hunter. (Maybe Passport on the EU servers). Yes, that is how thin the margin is.
  14. Quote:
    Originally Posted by ElectroHawk View Post
    For the G15 you can use the COHLCD software along with Herostat to get your in game stats appear on the LCD. It's a very nice little software and it works very well.

    Example of things that can be displayed:

    1- hp/end bar
    2- Amount of influence
    3- XP earned and XP left to level
    4- Chat logs ( global, channel, private messages)
    and I might be forgetting some.
    COHLCD should work with any of the Logitech keyboards. However, Duck hasn't (it seems) continued the project, and for some strange reason I can't get it to work with my Vista machine.
  15. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man View Post
    I just noticed that Beefcake made it back to 700 badges as well! Congratulations Beef!!!
    Even after I get Immortal, I'll only be at 695 badges. So I'll have to wait until Issue 17.
  16. Snow Globe

    W00000t!!!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by SinnerSaint View Post
    As of 10:45pm EST, SinnerSaint has every currently available badge, putting him at 698. I never got the base raid badge, and there's at least one other I don't have, not sure which it is. YAY ME!!
    You are missing:
    72 month Vet reward
    Power Liberator
    Bug Hunter (Not sure if this really should expect to be earned.)
    Passport (US->UK transfer.)
    April Fool (Maybe it is "Jester", but doesn't count as only Positron or another developer can have.)

    Anyways, Grats. I'm only 1 badge away from having all I can until Issue 17: Immortal.
  17. Quote:
    Originally Posted by LiquidX View Post
    Yeah. I'm not even sure why we have the Rep system back, unless it's something they can't disable with the new forum software. But the whole Rep thing was stupid back with the whole Star system, and it's still stupid now.
    I agree, and love the new avatar there, Liquid.
  18. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
    Srsly. When you select the "Help" channel as your default channel for a tab, and then select that tab as your active tab, and then select "Active Tab" for where you want your chat to end up, it is still broken, over a year later.

    It is still using /help, which is now used to access the support window. When noobs attempt to talk in their brand new game's Help channel, they get told they're using too many args, because /help takes 0, because it isn't for talking in Help channel anymore.

    It should be using /hc, which is the new command to send text to the Help channel.

    For the love of Cheezits, fix it already!
    I personally am annoyed with the supposed "fix" that introduced this mess over a year ago. Making this suggestion should have been done when the change was first put in place. I know several people (including myself) that have told the developers and community reps about this to no avail.
  19. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Postagulous View Post
    78.8kbps

    Could I quit and then get online and let it do it's thing later? It's been around an hour so far and it has another hour of downloading to go.
    Yes. You can resume the download later.
  20. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
    It's just that the adjustment should have occurred a long long time ago.
    The adjustment to all the "epics" should have happened in Issue 5, along with the change to the mentoring badges.
  21. Quote:
    Originally Posted by jacktar View Post
    I am using the flashback Castro Kadell arc at lvl 39 as the Guides are just inside the mish door and with a portal just down the corridor no chance of a stray patrol.
    I'm using the Origin of power arc's last (and only) door mission. The critters don't wander, strangely enough. The setup isn't that hard, as I just had to talk to the contacts once (actually a few times as I interrupted myself to get the MoKahn badge). The CoT Guide in question is level 52.
  22. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit View Post
    Same here: just finished my troller the other week and working away at my corr now. After 57 months, the troller was up to 7M and the corr was up to 9M. The previous goals were set too darn high.

    Thanks for the correction SG. Got a little enthusiastic with the 0 there.
    No problem.

    I'm getting around 1,100 per hit from a +2 CoT Guide every 10 seconds while in rest. Considering that I've got 1,312 max hp, I'm sure I'm losing progress from the "bonus xp". This works out to around 6,600 per minute, but let's round down to an even 5k/minute due to misses (streak breaker). That is 10,000 minutes or 166.67 hours or 7 days of 24/7 damage farms for 50 million damage. This means it would take an optimal amount of 336 hours to get the Immortal badge from scratch on a support toon.

    Sigh.
  23. Quote:
    Originally Posted by jacktar View Post
    am currently at 21.4 million total and counting
    As of this post I'm at 50.43 million. I can indeed verify that the Immortal placeholder starts with 50% progress.
  24. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Fire_Away View Post
    how are existing lists inadequate (perhaps cleaning up them rather than starting over is appropriate)
    This is my question whenever a new "list" shows up. I've yet to find anyone give me an answer that doesn't involve wishful thinking on the poster's part.