Smurch

But we already know the answer to that according to the devs, right? We know that the answer is yes. Because if it's not, Cole cannot be a villain. For Cole to be a villain he has to be morally and ethically in the wrong. That means it's black and white.

Hence no Moral Dilemma. That's the problem with the stuff you quoted from them: they took what COULD have been a moral dilemma and gave us the "right" answer. Thus removing the dilemma.

And you're still avoiding the question I posed to you. Which choice would you pick? Do nothing and allow 10 children to die or take action to sacrifice one for 10 to survive? And why?

So are you saying that supporting the resistance means that humanity WILL be wiped out? Because unless that's true, it's not a moral dilemma.

In fact, even if it IS true, it's not a dilemma. Obviously anything that leads to all of humanity being wiped out is simply morally unacceptable as a choice. If our choices are extinction and dictatorship, then dictatorship is the only choice you can make. That's a Hobson's Choice, not an ethical dilemma.

And you didn't answer my question. Which choice in my dilemma would you pick?

That's not how a moral dilemma works. A moral dilemma works by presenting you with a choice where neither side is completely desirable, but it forces you to make a decision.

For example, lets pretend you're standing by a railroad switch between two train tracks.

On the left track, there is a newborn baby laying in the tracks.

On the right hand track, there are ten newborn babies laying in the tracks, and there is a freight train bearing down on them.

You do not have time to run out and save them. Your only options are:

1.) Do nothing, and ten babies get hit by a train
2.) Pull the rail switch and change the train over to the left hand track so only 1 baby dies.

What do you do? Do you sacrifice the one to save the others or not? How do you justify your decision?

That's a moral dilemma. There is no clear right or wrong answer. There is no clear good or evil choice. There is only the choice of allow 10 to die or kill one yourself and save 10 others. Neither is a desirable outcome. But time is running out....

What do you do?

If that's all true, then yeah, it's going to be a huge opportunity missed. An entire expansion about blurring the line between hero and villain can't have black and white sides and do what it intends to do.

Eh, it still means I can actually play a Hero AT but I won't need to run the lousy blueside content. I can, instead, bring the hero AT over to Redside which is more challenging, and thus more fun.

Mender Silos is either lying about who he is but sincerely is trying to undo his own mistakes and save the world OR he's lying about who he is and it's all just a big you-know-who plot. Either way, there's not likely to be much real gray area there.

Facts and GG don't usually get along terribly well.

We all know your opinion on this by now, especially since you simply won't shut up about it even in threads that have nothing whatsoever to do with it. However, we all saw the Herocon videos. We don't agree with your conclusions.

There is just no way the devs are going to paint an entire expansion about the morally grey line between heroism and villainy in stark black and white. That would miss the entire point of their own expansion.

I believe that Cole has some good AND bad elements. I can read his biography here: http://www.cityofheroes.com/goingrog...yrant_bio.html and see why there might be a resistance movement, but I can also see why there would be a loyalist movement. The line isn't that clear. There's a grey area. Cole is NOT Recluse. Not by a mile.

Really, Praetoria brings up the question of "Is freedom worth sacrificing security?". That's a question we're struggling with right here in the USA right now. It's a tricky question by all accounts, since we can't seem to agree where that line should be drawn. Is it worth destroying a system that works, that has a happy, healthy, well-educated populace who by and large are thrilled with their current government just to offer the freedom to choose? How valuable is freedom? Is it worth sacrificing everything for? How valuable is security? Is it worth sacrificing freedom and even life and limb for a few to keep the many happy?

That's a tricky question and one that can be explored through some pretty difficult moral choices. And thats absolutely what Going Rogue should be... no NEEDS to be.. about.

Even if that was true (and it's not, see below) then there have to be compelling reasons to do either of those things.

Compelling reasons that arise from a moral dilemma with meaningful choices. For a meaningful dilemma to exist, neither side can be pure. Which means there has to be a big fat grey area.

Now, since we've ALSO been told that you'll be given several points in those first 20 levels to make some moral choices, it can't just be "jump ship to the other side at the end". There has to be a spiral, a slippery slope, a way for someone to slide towards one side or the other, from both camps, all the way down one of those two paths, starting from a neutral position.

That necessitates that neither side be 100% good or evil.

I don't think they're going to be exactly the same. Point: Both Loyalists and Resistance can become heroes or villains at the end of their respective arcs. Obviously they must both begin in a grey area to be forced along both paths to make strong moral choices via their story arcs. The "Resistance is Good and Loyalists are Evil" thing falls apart if that's the case. There need to be shades of grey to both of them, where no matter which side you're on, you can somehow arrive at the same moral position of heroism or villainy by the end.

That's why I don't think it's going to be so simple as "Emperor Cole is just Lord Recluse in a suit". I'd be surprised and deeply disappointed if it was, but given the above, I sincerely doubt it is.

Grandville is actually alot of fun once you learn your way around. I love speeding off one one walkway and landing on another or running up a pipe to the top of a wall, then leaping at full speed over two platforms to land by the statue, etc.

Now, it's the hardest to LEARN to use superspeed in, but if you do, it's a blast.

My SS/Invuln level 50 has Mace. I recently respec'd out of the AOE blast and the pet (decided to take everything in my primary and secondary, but may spec back into them at some point). The KB isn't bad. If you're fighting at +2 or higher on level, then you will probably not knock anyone anywhere, or at least not many. I don't generally use it for close up fights anyways, I used it for smacking a spawn across the room who was picking on a squishy comrade. It's more a way to get their attention than an actual attempt to do DPS.

The pet (arachnobot blaster) is nice and is good to take some aggro from the spawns while you beat down a boss or EB. It can take a pretty good beating

The redraw on the mace is slow, but it's not intolerable.

I like the web power, however, as it's helped me bring down flying foes to beat them up, especially when there are several of them.

Overall, I think it's an OK powerset

You can get good sets playing casually. I spend no more than 15 minutes at the market each time I log on and I've got alot of sets on my characters. I'm definitely a casual player, I play only a few days a month, and if I can amass hundreds of millions of infamy and slot up my characters, then so can you.

Yeah, I'll probably never slot a full set of ultra-rare purples, but who needs em? If I get even one of those in a drop, I'm happy because I know I'm set for a good long time. I can probably fully slot up an entire powerset for a character on the profit from just 1 purple recipe. As a result, it just doesn't seem economical for me, given my time constraints, to try to get a full set of purple. But I can get other sets.

Having nice things isn't "everything slotted purple". For us casual players, just some of the regular IO sets are just fine.

Having seen enough of your posts, I don't believe that for a second. You seem to have a vested interest in Being Right (tm) to justify your nerdrage over the redside market. For someone who couldn't care less, you've invested alot of time and energy in this topic.

I find your avatar of a guy punching himself in the groin all too apt.

Relax a little.

White.

And so far it seems that it will only go to level 20, at which point everyone will have to pick Red or Blue.

People still do that?

Some of us like to take our time and see the sights and enjoy the view. It has nothing to do with our skill.

I've been on Speed ITFs and non-speed "steamroll" ITFs, and I greatly prefer the latter. I like TFs for the actual game play, not to avoid as much gameplay as possible. That's simply not fun for me.

Assuming that is true, the reason supply is lower is simply because population is lower. Which is why more people should come to Redside, to boost both Population and Supply!

Add to that, gameplay is better Redside, the ATs are more interesting and challenging (being hybrids instead of one trick ponies), the writing is better, there are far far far less Fed Ex missions (especially at low levels), and the graphics and textures look so much more evocative and rich. The Atmosphere is so much cooler.

Now, I have no problems with the market and I am definitely "casual" where it comes to using the market: I list everything for ~10% of it's build price, or Salvage for somewhere around 50% of the going rate. It's a simple rule of thumb, it's not optimal by any measure, but it works for me and it's fast. I spend no more than 10-20 minutes per session (depending on if I am buying and selling or just selling) to deal with the market. Sometimes it takes much less as I just check on my current bids. MY wife spends maybe ten more minutes on the market than I do and usually has alot more money than me, but I don't have the patience to fiddle with making multiple bids or listing high and waiting for sales, where she is. Impatience is my achilles heel as well, it's just not as bad as it is with the "Buy it NAO!" crowd. Patience = Profit in the redside market. It really is that simple.

I don't generally run Strike Forces. I do some Architect arcs but just for fun. Tickets I get go to replenishing my SG's supply of Orange salvage. I don't do recipe rolls.

I'm patient with recipes and salvage bids. If I happen to have buckets of cash and want something RIGHT NOW, I'll happily pay a premium for it (since INF is so easy to make). I've got like 30 different characters that I play more or less evenly, so it's not like I'm mastering the market on one character either. I rarely have trouble getting my characters IO'd out the way I want them. I'm pretty happy overall with the redside market. Could it be better? Sure! It absolutely could! But is it entirely opaque and un-workable for a casual player? Hardly.

Look at me. I use probably one of the stupidest formulas for working the market ever and I'm pretty happy with my results. If *I* can do it, *you* can do it. In fact, I have every confidence you can do it *better* than I do, no matter who you are.

All that said, my poorest character (amongst 30 characters and a lowbie) always has at least 1 million. My wealthiest has several hundred million. It's simply not that difficult.

I'm a Villain Player and I play red side because it's so fun!

*sigh* I tried to get the thread back on track

You know, when I read the OP, I thought this was a stupid idea. But now, after reading Coming Storm's addition to this suggestion, I think it's the best idea ever.