SmokeSignal

Originally Posted by Arcanaville

I don't think the release version of the game is simply suboptimal for PvP. I'm saying I believe I can prove a pattern of behavior where they did things that by their own reckoning they had to either undo or work around to implement PvP, and in some cases they *never* fully figured out how to work around them, but they did not need to be told they were problems.

Its one thing to say the devs were implementing the game while saying "one day there will be PvP, one day there will be PvP." However, I do not believe the devs *ever*, even at the doorstep to introducing PvP, asked themselves "given PvP is coming, should we do X?" I never said, nor cannot prove, that the devs were *ignorant* of the fact that PvP was coming. I'm saying that even knowing that fact, they took zero steps to prepare for it even knowing it.

Here's two statements from the devs from the Issue 4 era:

1. Player defenses are balanced around critters having base 50% tohit.

2. Players have 75% base to hit in PvP.

And yet, they had to be *convinced* to change player base tohit in PvP, when by their own reckoning their own powers system design is broken under that base tohit.


Question: when PvP was first introduced, if a target (player) had a lot of defense, what two things could help you hit that target?

If you answered "Tohit buffs and Accuracy" I apologize, you've tripped over a trick question. Initially, until it was patched with a stealth patch, if your target had more defense than you had overall tohit, the only *one* thing that could help you was tohit buffs. Accuracy would actually make things (unnoticably due to the 5% floor) *worse* due to a bug in tohit mechanics, if target defense was higher than attacker overall tohit.


The devs said, back then, they had thought carefully about how things like endurance drain would affect players in PvP. If you were designing PvP for CoH and were thinking about things like how endurance drain might become problematic, would you take a break, eat some lunch, and then invent the power Elude?


So you know PvP is coming, and you're working on a new pet for the Gravity control powerset called a Singularity. Knowing PvP is coming, do you make all of its attacks completely untyped so no defense works on them? And by the way, they are still all untyped to this day.


So you're a dev, and your actual on-paper design doc for tankers indicates they are designed to take on more aggro, and therefore more damage than any other archetype in existence. Did whoever write that down know PvP was coming and just punt the problem to you, or did they literally just not know that might be an issue? And lets not get into taunt, and whether that even originally worked in PvP.


Its not like this list is short. I can keep typing until the forums truncate my post. I don't think the original designers thought PvP actually *had* any actual design or implementation requirements. Just playtest and tweak it, and as they say in Hollywood we'll just fix it in post. And as a result, they did things that they wouldn't have done if they actually thought they had to be careful, and didn't do things they would have done if they thought PvP had actual requirements they should try to meet before the last minute.


Anybody can say "I intend to X." The devs can say they intended the game to have PvP from the beginning just like I can say I intend to rule the world. What steps have I done to accomplish that task today? None, but I still intend to. The devs took no steps to accomplish their task of adding PvP to the game until they were actually literally adding PvP to the game for I4, and more importantly they took no steps to *prevent* trivially preventable things that became problematic to PvP later.

Originally Posted by Thor's Assassin

Who are ya kidding smokey, you have never been 'fresh'

Originally Posted by Lone_mutant_

Arcanaville=rarely wrong about anything

Originally Posted by Daknah

The problem with the philosophy of keep the core small so more teams are made is that people don't want to make a team they want to play with the people that are already on a team. So instead of making a team and playing with people they don't like, they will enter the draft legit or hide themselves in the draft so they can be on the team they want. Just an insight as to how it has gone in the past.

Originally Posted by Giant2005

It is the opposite of CoH.
It is a game built around PVP with PVE as a small offshoot of it. I wouldn't recommend it, would take forever to become competetive at PVP as a new player now but the Free Trial caps you at the first tier. Doesn;t take long at all to get as good as you can at that and be competetive with the other trial players or subscribers alike. That is why I think the endless trial is better than the actual game.

Originally Posted by Daknah

Alpha does little besides make up for weak points in your build. Range or damage on a blaster is a waste since boost range is op and build up as well. So in short let them use Alphas just ban the other incarnates. Vets don't need to be coddled. If ios can be used by already slotted toons it's good to go.

Originally Posted by macskull

*tackles smoke*?

Originally Posted by Texas Justice

Not when you've been here the entire time with her.

Originally Posted by B_Witched

since I a sure this will get mod smacked I will make it short. Why would i/we be fair to anyone who asked that question. It's obvious, same as the last dude who asked it (BTW - where the hell did he go...fired already?)..if you are hired as a community manager or whatever they call them and you don't get what people hate about pvp now, what they liked about i12 and the over lack of activity in the pvp forums...before post #1 then they really need to check thier hiring practices.

Is anyone really under the impression the devs, the actual people who can make the changes, don't know what we hate about the crap ball that was i13? That somehow, OH GEE no one made a list and presented it to them for 7 issues, that was the whole problem. Isn't ironic one of the biggest people responsible for the changes has been Sheened? DUH WINNING>