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Quote:I have never claimed that all female deaths are fridging.Really? Because Smersh was naming practically every female death as fridging. Even if the death didn't motivate anyone.
It's all silliness, really, and that's why when I write stuff, the Grim Reaper isn't picky in who or how they die.
Please quote where it appears I said that, because that's certainly not what I intended to say. -
Quote:"The black guy always dies first" is also a trope.So if it was a male, then it would of been an entirely different trope.
So the point is, get over it, everything can be linked to a trope.
Not all tropes are value-neutral. Some are so problematic that they need to be retired. -
No, he just doesn't respect them as anything other than sexual objects. Women exist for him to pursue and attain. He certainly refuses to treat them as actual people, or to consider for even a second their thoughts on the matter.
That's also misogyny, in my book. It's treating women as lesser beings. And I'll give you three guesses as to what his reaction to rejection by women would look like. The first two don't count. -
Quote:I'll take the opportunity to point out that I hated the First Ward as well. The Praetorian Seer network is an industrial-scale refrigerator. The 'hilarious' Master Midnight is so misogynistic that I would have rather chosen sides against him, even if the result would have been becoming an unwilling member of the Carnival of Vengeance. Sorceress Serene's cabal is stuffed in a fridge as a part of her backstory. We get to put Katie Douglass back into her refrigerator.My point was that I'm hardly the only one. Not necessarily in the majority, mind you, just far from the only one to feel that way.
Here's the thing: I'm done waiting. I've waited for this game to get out of its depressing rut since I18 launched and I found myself crushing dreams, killing people and having to choose between two doomed ideologies. I sat through First Ward and the starting contacts in the revamped zones, and it's just more of the same depressing, dreary narrative that I'm simply sick and tired of. I don't play this game to bring my own spirits down, so I'm done.
If the SSAs suddenly grow cheery and happy and uplifting in SSA4, then too bad so sad. I won't know about it, because it will be too little too late.
Actually, let me put this another way: I used to be a fan of Naruto, way back when. I spent FOUR ******* YEARS waiting for the resolution to a particular plot thread, and when it finally arrived, it was butchered to hell and back. I'm not waiting for plot resolution ever again. If they leave their plots on downer cliffhangers, then that's the last I want to know about them. And why would I want more? The sales pitch is "Stay tuned, because it's only gonna' get worse!" Ha!
Compared to the RWZ arcs, where Sefu Tendaji's death would not have been a fridging if his and Captain Dietrich's genders had been flipped, I would have to say that someone on the writing team has a big obsession with refrigerators. I can't say I care for it. -
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Quote:Wrong.
So no, this is not "an example of WiR" because WiR is not an isolated incident. It is a trend. And I don't think it is fair to criticize a particular author or company unless you can show this trend exists in THEIR writing alone. They are not responsible for what the rest of the industry has done or is doing. If they are being fair then they should be applauded, not criticized. -
Quote:From the ur-example that coined the term: Alexandra DeWitt, a character who existed mostly to die in service of character development for the hero.I agree with all of this. What I was disagreeing with was what I perceived as your describing how this being her seemingly sole reason for appearing in the story as making it an even stronger example of WiR.
Let me drill in very narrowly.
You seem to me to be linking that her lack of other role made this a classic case of WiR. I'm not saying it's not a case of WiR, just that whether or not she had any other story role doesn't affect that. This may be a stark example of it, because it's not supported by any other plot elements, but it doesn't make it more of an example, from what I can see.
There are levels of WIR. I consider the characters who exist to be stuffed into refrigerators the worst case of WIR. They are not the only cases of WIR.
Consider also Max Payne's wife. Fridged, exists to be fridged, to make Max an angsty anti-hero. Contrast with Gwen Stacy (a borderline fridge case), who was an actual character who happened to be put in the fridge. Much less egregious, and why Gwen Stacy as WIR is up for debate, whereas Alex DeWitt is not. -
Quote:To be perfectly fair, I cast the WIR problem as wider than other people do. As pointed out earlier in the thread, I count Gwen Stacy as being 'fridged,' because her death was primarily put in (in my opinion) to drive Peter Parker's character growth. I will grant that Gwen Stacy is a debatable example.Actually, that's not correct. I won't disagree that it's an example of WiR, but it's not for the specific reasons you argue it is. The meme is neither focused on or heightened by the characters being "stuffed in fridge" having a lack of depth or other role in the story.
The meme is described thusly on the Wikipedia article on the topic.
Emphasis is mine. Notice that this does not say that a defining characteristic of this meme has anything to do whether the character is well-developed or has any other role.
The WiR website actually goes beyond this, listing examples of perceived misogyny against female characters, including main ones.
What I think there's a good case for is that the SSA provides an example of a character who was there almost specifically to serve as a WiR.
I want to mention that, for reasons I gave in my post on how I view the overall notion of a male character losing a female partner, I do not feel that this plot element is misogynous. I do not even feel that its prevalence as a plot element is misogynous, when viewed across many stories. Where I would contend it risks become misogynous is when it becomes a regular element in a given setting. Having it come up a lot across settings or stories seems perfectly reasonable to me, for reasons given earlier, but having a single story or series revisit it repeatedly risks crossing a line for me.
I consider the examples especially egregious when the character being fridged is defined primarily by their relationship to our (usually male) protagonist. If you describe Peter Parker in one sentence, you would probably say something about how he's Spiderman. If I asked you to describe Gwen Stacy in one sentence, that sentence would most likely be about her being Peter Parker's girlfriend.
In terms of your Wikipedia definition, I tend to focus much more on the first sentence than the second. I also am known to talk about refrigerators in genres other than comic books.
Definition one: the use of the death or injury of a female comic book character as a plot device in a story starring a male comic book character.
Definition two: the depowerment or elimination of a female comic book character within a comic book universe.
Amazingly, here, in the SSA - Alexis Cole-Duncan fits BOTH categories. And, in the villain-side version of the arc (which I ran this morning), your character has the opportunity to put her in the fridge yourself, with explicit dialogue from Malaise pointing out how the two of you were going to hang out to see Manticore's expression when you open the fridge door for him yourselves.
Why must Alexis Cole-Duncan die? To screw with Statesman and Manticore. No other reason. Not to mention that she's a depowered former superhero who can't fight back and spends the entire arc cowering. -
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Quote:It's not about the gruesomeness of the death - Gwen Stacy counts as stuffed in a fridge.I only have a problem with it if the death was particularly gruesome or humiliating, which as far as I can tell Alexis' was not (Katie on the other hand suffered a fate worse than death, at least for her). To me a WIR is not necessarily how many get killed but how they are killed.
It was sad, and I hate it when anyone dies in the game, but it didn't seem overly violent or gratuitous. I've only done the hero-side and I'm really itching to do the villain side because I have SO many questions left.
First rule of the hero - keep that mask on!
It's about the author doing these things so that the hero has something to angst about and have character development over.
In general, it's about having horrible things happen to female characters so that male characters can react to it. -
Quote:The WIR hypothesis is not that women get killed.This.
Male characters die all over comics (recently Nightcrawler and Human Torch). I completely disagree with the OP.
I think the term 'WIR' is ridiculous. The idea, the name...ridiculous. It seems to be some fanboy's tainted interpretation of the facts.Nothing to see here. Move along.
The WIR hypothesis is that women get killed specifically to provide motivation to the protagonists.
Miss Liberty was not killed because she was fighting for justice. She was not killed because she had a McGuffin. She wasn't established as a character in her own right, but pretty much solely by her relationship to other characters (daughter of States, mom of Ms. Liberty).
Yes, I'm aware she shows up once in the one villain Ouro arc - with the exact same powers as her daughter. That's not an independent character, that's a continuity nod.
To have her show up a second time with no fanfare, and to be killed solely to provide motivation to our signature heroes? Yeah, that's stuffing her in a refrigerator.
Had the negotiations with Marshall Blitz and Miss Liberty been a B plot withing the SSAs, had the character any sort of presence in the game... there were ways that could have avoided WIR. As it is, she shows up in the game once to be established and once to die providing pathos and motivation to our protagonists (which are not our player characters mind, but the signature heroes.)
It's pretty much the definition of WIR. -
Update: The prizes now total over one billion influence.
The party is beginning in mere minutes! See you there, comrade! -
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Pocket D - Monkey Fight Club
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Quote:Not everyone knows their blood-type. Lori, presumably, knows that she can't donate.Here's something that was bothering me, but I don't think it was brought up in this thread...
I'm blood type A+ the same as Carl, and I know it's a fairly common blood type, so I did a little research to see just how common it is, and whether they are justified in draining Rick to within a pint of his life.
If I'm reading the information on wikipedia correctly, A+ is the second most common blood type in the US with approximately 35.7% of the population sharing this blood type. Furthermore, wikipedia indicates that people with A+ blood can receive transfusions from people with A or O blood types. The fraction of Americans with blood types A+, A-, O+ and O-, amounts to approximately 86%.
So, out of Rick, Lori, Shane, Otis, and at least two women (IIRC), 83% of those people fall into the 14% of the population that can't donate blood to Carl?
If you're not sure about blood types, it's really bad to transfuse. And I don't find it surprising that a veterinarian doesn't have the equipment on hand to test for blood types. -
I've been here since launch, and haven't let my sub slip. Tier nine vet and all that.
I've still got about six months left on my year sub. That's how long the devs have to win me over.
I'm not fond of Incarnate raids. The writing of the game has gone seriously downhill since the RWZ do-over. All Praetoria, all the time is idiotic - Praetoria isn't the only world-ending threat established in CoH canon, and there should be parity between Praetorian iTrials and miscellaneous iTrials.
I'm not fond of telling characters that the only way to gain more power is to abandon the small teams that got them to 50 in the first place.
Wow me with new Incarnate content, or I'll do without. I've got the Paragon rewards for everything else. All archetypes, IOs, auction house, the works. I'm going to hoard my points for a while to buy other things - it'll cost me a few to unlock the extra slots on my home server. I might, maybe, buy the First Ward.
Don't get me wrong, I love this game. I met my wife, at least in part, because of this game. I won't leave this game - but they've given me enough stuff to not worry about losing anything of import when I stop subscribing. -
Have you run the Underground trial yet?
The Furies punish oathbreakers.
Cole made an oath to Hamidon.
You can kinda see where that's going.
I think the Furies are empowered by the Well, but not specifically acting on its behalf. Kind of the way that player characters are empowered by the Well but are acting against its champion. -
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The Makos and Obliterations are not the most efficient way to get defenses on an Inv - they only have half values for typed defenses and are at six slots.
Put four slots of Eradication in Sweeping Cross and Spring attack, fill in other slots to taste. Switch your single attacks to a mix of Kinetic Combats (until you've got the S/L defense you need) and Crushing Impacts.
Drop an extra slot in Combat Readiness and put Rectified Reticle there.
Drop the Basilisks from Crushing Uppercut - it's a damage power, not a hold.
Your second build is looking a lot better, though. -
Wow... yeah.
There's no circumstance where you need 62% smash/lethal defense.
Try aiming for 45-47% defense in smash/lethal, and try to bring up your Energy/Negative to 45-47% defense as well.
(45% defense is the soft cap - In normal gameplay, you don't see any advantage to building over 45%. 47% gives you a buffer for defense debuffs that you probably won't need.) -
Quote:Not looking at the build at the moment, but Werner's probably got DA double-stacked.One odd thing I noticed. On my build, if I toggle off Divine Avalanche in mids, my defense numbers go down exactly 20%. In 2/3 of the builds in Elegost's post (a couple of pages back) toggling off DA drops defense by around 20-25%, depending I think on the slotting of DA. But when I toggle off DA in the final Werner BBQ build, defense for lethal and melee drops by 40 points. And I don't see anything in his slotting of DA to explain that. What am I missing?
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Also, slotting KO Blow with Basilisk's Gaze is not precisely optimal.
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Quote:Ice/KM stacks -damage very nicely. The crystal option for Stone Melee can look somewhat like ice if you color it correctly.What is a good secondary to pair with Ice Armor?
In the past I got Ice/SS up to level 40 a few times but I hated the old Rage crash, and hated the new one more. Still do. So I deleted a level 35-40 Ice/SS tanker at least 3 times. Later I got used to the Rage crash and so now I am sure I *could* do Ice/SS again, but I am kinda holding out hope that Brutes will get Ice Armor. I have become accustomed to Brute damage, and conceptually he should have been a Brute all along.
But that leaves me realizing I dont have an Ice Armor character. So I am wondering about a good sevondary for it that has good damage other than Super Strength.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Lewis -
I'ma let you finish, but Samuel L. Jackson is the highest grossing actor of all time.