SkeetSkeet
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Posts
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Quote:Actually it's 3.2 end/sec. Big difference.Originally Posted by Frosticus
Sorry but 2.27 end/sec before attacking
Quote:This build is practically unplayable without a kin. lol attack 3 times, summon nado, LS and you are needing to rest heh. What do all the primaries that aren't sonic, ff or traps do? Carry some break frees when you know you're going to fight rikti. With that level of defense, I start a LGTF with a 8-10 bfs and end up with some left over when I'm finished. The scenario you describe of needing to be babysat by a tank, having to hold back, getting steamrolled by rikti or running out of end... those things simply don't happen. Having used that build on dozens of ITF/LGTF/STFs, I can say that in-game results trump forum theory as to how well it works.Quote:What do you do when you get hit by a rikti mez with dominate and it suppressed all your non-IO defense and hurricane and you get steamrolled in seconds?
The overall discusson on traps in this thread has convinced me it's more worthwhile than I gave it credit for off the cuff.Quote:but man defender traps is pretty potent. -
Quote:Click this DataLink to open the build!Originally Posted by Frosticus
lol, without you stating what you consider "survivable" to be I guess you're right
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Show me a storm build that is capable of softcapping to everything. My storm def was able to softcap to ranged and that's it without seriously gimping the build.
My storm troller is able to softcap to s/l and ranged (with a kinda gimp build).
Softcapped to everything? No. Survivable? Absolutely. -
Quote:IOs let virtually any build be survivable--if you choose to build that way. This defintiely includes storm.Originally Posted by Frosticus
Finally, in another thread I posted a non-gimp traps/son with softcapped def to every position and every damage type possible. Think about the build flexibility that implies for a second. Seriously, I don't think there is another set in the game with that kind of flexibility. It is so easy to build a massively survivable traps def that can just go full tilt in every scenario that it is a bit upsetting for toons like my storm/sonic, that can be insanely powerful, but usually has to hold back due to survivability issues, or at best has to wait for a "tank" to gather the agro before I can unleash. That gets old fast. I don't like being babysat.
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Quote:In that case it's fine for longer, static fights. In situations where a team finishes with a group fairly fast and moves on to the next one, there's an AM sitting at the spot of the previous fight debuffing nothing while you're at the next one waiting for it to recharge.Originally Posted by perwira
True, but AM's tend to be quite robust and, with haste, will last long enough for a second one to be up before the first one has expired.
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Quote:I just can't see where TA comes out sad looking next to Traps.Originally Posted by Trickshooter
Defender Traps is a pretty awesome set, and quite a few of the powers that were bumped up for the Defender mods are actually more powerful than they should be. It puts a lot of the other sets to shame with what it offers Defenders. Poor, poor Trick Arrows is kind of sad looking next to Traps.
I don't see what will make it a terrible set for teams. It will offer a large radius of 20ish defense to all once slotted, over 50% -Resistance with the easily stackable Acid Mortar, over 50% -Damage if both Seeker Drones hit, along with 12.5% -ToHit, and Poison Trap, which despite the complaining about what it can't do anymore, is still a powerful control.
Also, procs were not the problem with Poison Trap, they were just the most obvious effect of the problem they wanted to get rid of: the multiple clouds. The devs don't care that your power on a 90 second timer could instantly wipe out a group of minions at once, they cared that it could nearly perma hold AND damage large groups of bosses and even EBs and AVs. So asking them to remove proccing and buff some other aspect probably won't get you very far. If you want to see Poison Trap buffed, you need to prove it's underperforming. And honestly, eventhough it's nothing like how it used to be, it probably still outperforms a lot of similar powers
Deploy Seeker Drones from far away to soak up the alpha, then fly in and toebomb Poison Trap and Acid Mortar. Traps is only a poor team set if you want to play it with poor set-and-pull tactics.
I really want to make one, but I'm waiting for Pistols.
On the buff side of things, a high quality tool like FF generator is definitely a big edge vs TA which has, um, nothing.
When it comes to debuffs though, I think the 90-second recharge times are a major liability. Compared to acid and disruption arrows, acid mortar and poison traps just aren't going to be around when you need them nearly as often on large teams that move somewhat quickly from fight to fight.
At tier 8/9, I think oil slick and EMP arrow are vastly more useful than mines and time bomb.
The rest of the powers are kind of a grab bag that gives no overwhelming advantage to one set over the other. -
My quick take on traps is that it'll be a lot like having a /devices blaster on a team. Maybe one fight in 500 it'll be the perfect thing for the job, the rest of the time, just scrambling to keep up with the team.
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I really suspect some people are only playing the game on paper because when I log in I don't see anything like what they describe in the forums. In the game that I play, not every teammate is a lvl 50 fully-accoladed, spare-no-expense IO'd build. Nor is every team composed of some ideal (on paper...) mix of power sets. What I see in-game is defenders sought after at all levels for all types of content. Obviously the OP's mileage may vary... on paper.
ps- debuffs maintain their utility no matter how IO'd people are -
Quote:Couple of notes on this issue:Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Grandville and 92** series cards
Having Geometry Buffers enabled within the game while using a 92** series card causes graphical anomolies in Grandville and often an inability to even zone there.
The problem can also occur in the STF on the final mission. Not a surprise considering the map is a slice of grandville.
I ran into this issue with a 9000M card. Both in grandville and on the STF. Maybe rather than 92** series it's anything 92** or older?
The good news is that this thread was a cinch to find and the solution of turning off geometry buffers fixed it with no trouble at all. -
My current project is a fire/pain cor at 35 that I've been leveling the old-fashioned way with PuGs and story arcs with random assortments of team size, composition and opponents. Mostly my own missions on relentless with teammates in a -1 to +1 range of me. It's different than empathy but it does get the job done as far as preventing team wipes and helping speed things along.
Compared to playing empaths, I have to say I do miss fortitude but there are some things I appreciate about pain. Enforced morale having some benefits beyond mez protection/perception lets me get more mileage out of it than clear mind. The constant passive healing of soothing aura keeps people topped off without the nuisance of healing paper cuts or the retardation of emp "rocking the aura." Getting a self buff when I rez is kind of cool.
The context of defender vs corrupter needs to be taken into account too. The pain player's individual offensive potency is going to be a fair bit higher than the empath's and the team benefits from this contribution.
Overall I'm not going to take a side on the "which is better" argument but I can say with certainty they both fill a role well and each is well themed for the hero/villain side its on. -
Sonic is useful, it just doesn't stand out from the crowd very much. Like FF, it's one-dimensional when it comes to buffs but the buffs don't provide the overwhelming survivability of bubbles. On the debuff side, it doesn't provide the versatility and control of a set like TA. Minor tweaks would help it a lot, an improvement to siphon and liquefy with a shorter recharge would go a long way.
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Purely anecdotal but FWIW I'd guess sonic too. There's something just... lacking in the set that makes it an uncommon choice to start with, take heavy attrition going up through the levels and then get thrown on a shelf to be forgotten at 50.
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Quote:When did the arena become a long trek? There are two teleporters that will take you directly to an arena zone and getting /ai'd will zap you there too.Originally Posted by ZeroMorph
the rest of us can simply challenge each other to a "REAL" duel anywhere anytime without having to make a long trek to the arena.
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The leadership pool is nice to respec into at 50 when you can use IOs to mitigate the end cost and you have used your primary/secondary stuff enough to know what you can throw away.
On the way to 50, I'd rather spend those power slots on my primary/secondary stuff playing with the toys there and figuring out what I like from it.
A side note on maneuvers, while it's true that -tohit and +def are two sides of the same heads-I-win-tails-you-lose coin, there is a huge practical difference between -tohit which only affects things you have targetted and taken time to apply it to and +def which passively works to counter all incoming damage. Additional +def will improve your survivability no matter how much -tohit you have. -
Quote:Or, from another point of view... the old mez system made you completely dependent on inspirations. If you had break frees, you could play... for a while, until they ran out. If not, you were roadkill. After i13, inspirations are a minor factor and that's a good thing.Originally Posted by Neuronia
Mez Res:
This is one of the worst changes they've made so far, needless to say the least. Not sure where the Devs stood on holds, but they either didn't like that Break Frees countered them so easily or they didn't like that Sonics/Emps/Etc cound stack enough protection to make incoming holds useless. Again, getting held constantly forces an engagement, which is what the Devs wanted... -
Quote:I hope you at least named the guy Captain Obvious.Originally Posted by Biospark
Well here is the thing. If it DOES take an absurd number of hours, then it will just prove that my original assessment is correct.
However, if it DOES NOT take considerably more time than other characters I have played, then that will prove the Veterans in this community correct in their assertion that Defender powersets are balanced.
Will this take longer than some other Powerset combinations ? Probably.
But how much longer is part of the point. And how much face-planting will occur ?
This journey is rather a matter of proving to myself what is true and what is opinion.
The only reason I started this thread was is in hopes that Veterans will show me some insight on this powerset combination.
For what its worth, the journey is still just getting started, but is going well.
Here are my tallies;
Level 1-6 No Deaths, 1-2 hours played
Level 7-12 2 Deaths (Lost, CoT) 5-6 hours
Level 13-16 1 Death (Vahz) 3-4 hours
So level 16 in less than 12 hours with 3 deaths to Mob types that give every character at these levels trouble (Rectors, Ruin Mage, Zombie Packs). Sounds like the VETS are right so far. -
So after you spend an absurd number of hours "proving" that it takes an absurd number of hours to solo emp/electric to 50, what will you have "proved" that isn't already patently obvious going into it?
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Quote:I approve this message.Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
I'm not looking at defender population as a practical problem, though. I think someone has already said it better, but I'll stumble toward it anyway: is extreme support specialist, at the expense of other attributes, a role that many people will ever want to play? If the answer is what I think it might be, then it's quite possible that the Defender AT needs no changes because it is already well suited to a niche that is naturally small.
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I spend a lot of time on both a Fire/TA controller and a TA/A defender. I've had moments on both of them where I thought "hmm, this situation would be better with my other TA."
When it comes to damage, an abstract comparison of potential DPS doesn't tell the whole story.
Pets are kind of an x factor. Sometimes they're a lifesaver in occupying some agro... and other times a nuisance in drawing it. You can't reliably put them on a single target and there are many encounters where they either can't be brought to bear or are a liability for one reason or another. On the other hand, "fire and forget" damage that continues to work while you do other things is very handy.
Whether the steady slow burn of controller dps or the burst capability of a blast set attack chain is "better" is really kind of subjective and depends on the situation. How does one factor in the utility of something like a snipe or the tradeoffs involved in milking the damage out of a power like hot feet? -
Nice post. Well worth reading the whole thing.
Quote:Given the AI limitations and taking into account recent tweaks, how close to those ideal max numbers does jack actually perform in the game?Originally Posted by SStingray
Jack frost at level 50:
Jack's ice sword: 55.61 damage, 1.67s cast, 4s recharge. About 9.81 DPS.
Jack's ice bolt: 44.49 damage, 1.17s cast, 4s recharge. About 8.61 DPS.
Jack's freezing touch: 99.42 damage, 1s cast, 16s recharge. About 5.5 DPS.
Jack's greater ice sword: 126.79 damage, 2.33s cast, 12s recharge. About 8.85 DPS.
Jack's DPS total: 32.77 DPS
Jack and his master's DPS total at level 50: 52.77 DPS
I chuckle whenever the idea of a mm being a threat to anyone's spot on a team gets raised. At least, so far from having run eleventy billion (give or take) co-op TFs, mm's have one of the worst "perception" problems of any AT red or blue. No one ever goes looking for a mm to round out a TF team and there's often a fair bit of hesitation when a mm comes asking.Quote:Are masterminds going to invade Paragon City and muscle us defenders out of our jobs? Well...
As is, I consider the Mastermind a threat to everybody's jobs, especially the scrappers and blasters. But less so for defenders than anyone else. Outside of force-fields and traps, the mastermind's secondary power attributes make corruptors and controllers look good. But it is instead the inherent advantages and the pets that make the mastermind great. The combined mastermind and pet attacks out-blasts blasters, while bodyguard mode gives a 75% resistance to damage to the mastermind for free, and the mastermind just happens to get a little bit of buffing and debuffing on the side. But with the limited secondary power choices, a mastermind would likely appreciate having a corruptor or defender along to make everyone better, or at least provide some variety. -
Quote:That's very often true for me as well, both the personal stable part of and what I'm likely to be logged in on at when someone does a survey. My scrapper is used for most of my solo/time killing/marketeering/crafting activity and deftrollers for 90% of teaming or pvp.Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
My own little pet (and personal anecdotal) theory is roughly this:
When I 'hop' on to solo for a bit, or to see what teams are runing it I'm inevitably on a 'solo friendly' scrapper or blaster for blueside.
My defenders, tanks and trollers pretty much only come out for 1) a specific task (such as a preplanned TF) or 2) if there is a team running I can join which I only find out about once I am in game with another character.
Despite defenders being heavily over represented in my personal stable, in terms of random scanning outside of prime time at weekends you would find Im not on them that often.
If its time to day job shuffle I usually run a mission or so on any defender (well character period) just to keep them ticking over. -
Quote:There really isn't an issue outside of solo play. Even narrower than that, the only "issue" is the speed at which you can level a solo defender. If speedy solo leveling happens to be important to you then sure, it's a big issue.Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
Not quite. See category 1. Which I should expand into two categories, really: Don't Know and Don't Care. Some folks like soloing Defenders just as they are, despite (or even because of) the issues therewith, and who am I to stop them?
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Quote:That can be simplified down to say that if you play a defender you don't care that much about solo play.Originally Posted by SpittingTrashcan
What this means is that in order to want to play a Defender, you have to fall into at least one of four categories:
1. Naive. You don't know or don't care about any of this, and just want to play a Defender because they have the powers/concept you're interested in.
2. Altruistic. You enjoy helping others and don't really care about your own capabilities.
3. Enlightened Altruistic. You create or join teams using your strong buffs as a foundation and benefit from your teammates' increased power.
4. Repeat Offender. You and your friends consciously plan to use Defender cross-buffing to turn yourselves into tiny gods. -
Quote:A defender can do all those except melee and melee isn't even on the list of concerns for a defender.Originally Posted by CoyoteShaman
I hate to say this, but I think the problem with defenders is options.
If you want to play a toon that:
1) does massive ranged damage.
2) can dish out a ton of hand-to-hand and stay somewhat safe.
3) can survive damn near any conflict.
4) can shut down a whole spawn.
5) can make your whole team better at what they do.
What are your options?
1) Blaster
2) Scrapper
3) Tanker
4) Controller
5) Defender or Controller -
Quote:If you look back at the post I replied to, his plan A was to play his defender on a team. When setting the LFT flag doesn't get what you want in a reasonable amount of time, starting a team is a practical means to achieve that goal. Roll up a different AT isn't.Originally Posted by CoyoteShaman
Again you're ignoring preference and saying "just do it". Please try to at least consider the possibility that some people will never thing it's easier to start/lead a team than it is to just roll up a different AT.
Now if your main priority is solo speed, I don't see a problem with saying "Take a step back and choose an AT that best matches what you want." The fact that defender may not satisfy that requirement doesn't mean defenders are broken. Then entire point of having a variety of AT's is that each one doesn't have to be all things to all people. -
Quote:I don't agree that either of those assertions is necessarily true.Originally Posted by Peacemoon
thus its okay for them to not only bring more to a team but also bring more damage