Sitriel

So, long story short, you are basing your whole point on a brute player who was definitely not able to play his toon efficiently (in a team that obviously was not all that good either).
But what this very special situation has to do with the quite general question if dark scrappers outdamage dark brutes (which they don't) is several miles beyond me.

Likewise, what single target dps or rather the exclusion of AoE dps have to do with the situation you described with enemy groups for a team of eight players... it just makes no sense. I can not even say where you want to go from there because you are pointing in one direction (or several actually) while running off in a randomly different one.
First it is about dark melee for scrappers and brutes and suddenly the question which one is better is influenced by scrappers doing Rikti shipraids and certain people not liking concepts builds? Sorry, you definitely lost me there. No more coffee for you, lady!

Aaand...
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I don't understand why people think that attacking another group that is within 40ft away and with a perception of 50ft is somehow splitting the team. I can go in that room with someone who has Surveillance to verify the perception range and use me as a waypoint to verify that, that group was pull-able by anyone and by being anyone, ergo not safe.

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On the danger of repeating myself because I never suggested anything resembling leaving the second group unchecked but rather the opposite: If those two groups are actually that close to each other why is it so difficult to pull the second group onto the first and defeat both of them in one go as a team? Either you have their aggro, in which case that should be easy to accomplish, or you do not, in which case aggro will spread to other (maybe squishier) team members anyway.
I does not frikkin matter if your dps is higher or the brutes. The total team dps with AoE damage, buffs and debuffs concentrated on one spot is invariably higher than both of yours.
The only excuse I am willing to take is if the enemies are ranged mobs on an open map with no corners or other obstacles to break line of sight to actually pull them anywhere without losing aggro in the process.
Team dynamics is called team dynamics because it is about the perfomance of the team and not about the size and hardnes of single members' testicles.

I think you are still overcomplicating things.
First of all I would not say that scrappers lead in dps hero-side. Depending on team size and setup blasters with their per average(!) higher AoE potential take that prize. Likewise brutes can easily lose that dps leading spot if the team setup is not in their favour. You know our TT all-corruptor team and you know that a brute would not even add any significant damage output due to how that team operates.
Secondly I do not think that it makes sense if - in the situation you describe - the scrapper takes one group and the brute takes the other. By dividing your forces in such a way you are invariably hurting the team`s total dps. If they are so close to each other the best thing you can do is pull them both toghether in one spot. If brute and scrapper can work together in that task to make it quicker all the better. Do not defend yourself against two groups when you can attack them both at once! Never met a situation where the latter was not possible.
Have I already mentioned how I loathe people breaking away from the team to do their own spawn with the lame excuse of helping the team doing it? That's the reason why.
This is a game with many possibilities to keep even accidential mid-fight pulls under control. And if the one taking control of the situation is somebody who can grab aggro there is no good reason not to add those mobs to the "main fight" rather than take them on alone... if for any reason the team is slow enough that there still is a main fight by the time the add is under control, that is.
And from then on your point becomes blurry rather than the question who can do the most damage over time.
Why are you still assuming that brutes and scrappers necessarily have to use different secondaries? Do not brutes have access to the shield secondary, too? So, if you want to compare AT A against AT B you want to make both of them use the same powersets if possible. Otherwise you end up comparing their secondary powersets for their damage potential instead. This would equal a statistical trick to "prove" something that is just not true, but I think you want the real numbers and not produce a hoax. Why do you give the scrapper the shield secondary and the brute willpower and not the other way round if not to skew the numbers?
Then to your next assumption: You think it is unlikely for a brute to pass the 500% damage cap for scrappers? We were talking about a "team of 8" situation, so you can safely assume that there is nice chance of the brute doing just that. (Of course this is more difficult if people rather do their own spawn than work together. ) It even happens sometimes that we see the damage bonus turn blue in our combat attributes. Good times!
And people waiting for the brute? Heck, you should have told me that we are talking about sub-standard PUG style groups here! If the group has at any point to wait for the brute either they or the brute surely do not know what they are doing. Again, this has nothing to do with the damage potential of either brutes or scrappers.
And what you describe as people too fixated on team dynamic I call people not knowing **** about team dynamics. Nothing hurts team dynamics more than any member of a team not going full throttle, especially if we have team members that profit from nonstop action like brutes, blasters and dominators. Waiting during a fight for any somehow occupied member of a team to take over a situation you could handle is wasting time.
However, this also is more about people acting dumb than about who does more dps. No AT has so much dps that other ATs have any reason to not add theirs if they can.

Shannon, I think you are overcomplicating a relatively simple issue.

Of course you can tip the scales by having one of the two equipped with vastly superiour enhancements, giving one of them inspirations and the other not (although that is completely insignificant in the long run since statistically both should find the same inspirations given enough test time) or by letting a pacifist on valium compete against a furylocked madman. But all that does is make your test worthless for any kind of evaluation that is worth its salt. A top player with all the IOs he could wish for can outdamge a bad player with only SOs almost regardless of ATs and powersets used. Putting those two in control of toons that are already quite close makes no sense unless your goal is to utterly humiliate the bad player.

Everything else being equal (or as you said pound for pound) the dark brute will always outdamage the dark scrapper unless you somehow keep the brute from building and maintaining fury which can happen by serious lack of competence on the player's part or by imposing unnatural limitations (e.g. enforcing unneeded breaks or prohibiting specific powers or enhancements of SO level or better).
This is doubly true if you put both in teams with lots of damage buffs due to the considerably higher damage cap of the brute. (A damage-capped brute is a sight to behold. The carnage is hilarious. )

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Or as I originally stated Marvel being idiots and suing NCSoft over the chance of infringements wouldn't frighten me away from using the creator if I wanted to.


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Exactly. Which is just the problem NCsoft faces concerning such an offline character creator. People do things, NCsoft gets sued over it and can do entirely nothing against the ones responsible since what happens offline is quite impossible to police. Not a good thing for NCsoft.

But the question if something is legal is not entirely the same as the question if you can get away with it.
Since technically NCsoft is considered the offending party when it comes to copyright issues there is no question that you can get away with it as far as lawsuits go. And if you never use the offline character generator for re-creations of copyrighted characters there is no legal case to begin with. (Just like when Marvel tried to sue NCsoft a few years back and it came out that the copyrighted characters Marvel had documented ingame had all been created at Marvel's disposition. No actual copyright infringement, no case. )
Now, if we are talking about EULA breach or no that is a bit different. Possession alone can hardly be a problem since the utility was a download from an official source. But for the same reason it is considered part of the "game" as defined in the EULA. So, tampering with that utility (e.g. translating the Korean text to English) is probably a EULA breach (although I am not even 100% sure about that since Korea is a special case).
Well, I would not expect NCsoft to send a SWAT team your way over something like that.

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Not got it, don't want it.

My response to Marvel would be screw you. Providing I'm not releasing stuff for others to see and not attempting to make money off anything. They haven't got a leg to stand on.

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they do, NCsoft has an agreement that the whole program has to stay inside asia and that the program has to be off the internet.
as long as this agreement exists, no one has a leg to stand on but marvel, so it's kinda the other way around.

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Actually they don't.

Marvel cannot do anything to me because I am not breaching any of their copyrights... or if I was they would have to prove it. As I said in my original comment if I'm not actually doing anything they can see with it then it would be nigh impossible to prove anything.

Marvel could say to NCSoft you aren't stopping people using this software. But there is nothing Marvel can do.

Now potentially NCSoft could have a hissy fit at me, but again they'd have to find out that I was using it... bearing in mind I have a current client and a paid account so even if they thought I was using it I could turn round and say "I'm using the in game version thanks."

Lastly Marvel could have a poke at NCSoft, but as far as I know the only downloads now (not even looked so this is a guess) are from people downloaded form the Asian sites. The program is unsupported and fairly buggy (broken?) so its unlikely that a)Marvel will do anything and b)That NCSoft will make any concerted effort to stamp out its use.

Now if a fan made version or update came a long then I suspect there might be repercussions for that... but that would be a different matter.

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Actually it is a bit more complicated than that.

In a nutshell NCsoft is guilty of copyright breach each time you recreate a copyrighted character with the CoX character generator.
Now, with online character creation only NCsoft can put up a successful defense against Marvel or other third parties, because they can claim that potentially illegal user-created content is under their supervision and that sufficient measures are taken to keep those copyright breaches to a tolerable minimum.
Publishing an offline character generator would weaken or even defeat this defense (depending on the possibilities it offers) since this would rob NCsoft of the possibility to control user-created content and punish EULA violators... and we both (and NCsoft) know that people would proudly publish their copyright breaching creations via Youtube, homepages or similar portals each giving their respective copyright owners plenty of ammunition to use against NCsoft at court. And from there things can get quite expensive without proper defense.
If I were a manager for a software publisher I would rather have my testicles chewed off by a toothless goat rather than invite financial disaster like that.

Teleport
Hide
Drain Life

I got most others already.

Sounds like a concept I use for Algesis, my mind/psi dom. (Well, actually she is not a dom but a switch... but that is a different story. )
There are some ways to make costumes along the lines of "dark and sexy" and some of the best require you to have the wedding pack (especially for Excess Plus and Angelic Plus parts).
Apart from those parts I can recommend stilettos and overknees in black shining leather, patent leather pants and the trenchcoat with skin-coloured Eden underneath. (The latter makes it look like you would just have to open the coat a little bit more... ).

A few words of advice:
- Do not add too much bric-a-brac or your toon might look like a goth teenie rather than a woman in charge.
- Careful with mini skirts! If the rest of the outfit does not send a clearly different message the mini will send "sl*t". Easy-to-have is anything but dark and sexy.
- No thick leather jackets! Heavy metal and biker wear is fine for headbangers, but that is not what you are looking for.
- Be careful with too much exposure! It is a lot harder to make a nude chick look dominant than to make a dominant chick look sexy.

I hope this helps a bit in creating your own unique "dark and sexy" look.

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I did not argue whether MA was a success or not. I just do not see a point of excluding it from DXP, since that is a part of the gameplay available, regardless of how and how much it is used.

Perhaps we should exclude less played zones also from DXP? Or perhaps the regular missions that could be considered less creative?
In the name of Proper Content we certainly must ensure that people earn the XP the Right Way For DXP.

[/ QUOTE ]Do you really do not see the point in excluding MA from dxp or is it that you just do not want to see the point? Whatever it is, it is probably the reason why your "suggestions" do not make any sense at all.
Remove dxp from less played zones? Did you actually think about that before you posted it? What does removing incentive from something that is obviously unpopular to begin with have to do with excluding MA from dxp... or anything for that matter?
Or removing dxp from less creative content... what? You really did not get it, do you?
This is not about frequency of play or creativity issues. MA is excluded from dxp because it is still easily possible to utterly break the intended risk vs. reward standard with user-created content.
So, while the developers can not completely prevent the exploitation of MA in order to get unearned rewards the developers can still choose not to double those unearned rewards.
This is unfortunate for those who want to play non-exploitive MA content, but rumours suggest there might still be some content outside of MA that could keep a player (who absolutely does not want to miss out on dxp) occupied for a weekend.

Did it yesterday with a team of five (also Zukunft). Team consisted of the following:

Fire/Invul brute
Fire/Kin corruptor
Fire/Therm corruptor
Robot/Dark mastermind
Mind/Psi dominator (had to take that one for an I15 test ride )

As you can see there is no absolute need for bucketloads of debuffers. We did not use the security override against ambushing mobs and of course the MMs temp power was useless to say the least. We did throw two Shivans at him later in the fight to finish him off a bit more quickly, but at that point he was already on his way down, so it is doable without rockets, shivans and whatnot.
It was a SG team, so people knew how to work well together and Reichsman stood no real chance. Basically it was an exercise in endurance.
If the MM temp power had worked it would have been over a lot more quickly, that much I can say, but as it is it can be done with even PUG style team setups as long as the players know their stuff.

I like it. With recent changes in effect there is hardly a reason to actually miss out on something good in order to make permadom possible. My level 50 mind/psi dom is currently in a non-permadom spec and she is a beast. Tried her yesterday in a Barracuda SF, now that Zukunft is finally online for I15.

With Domination and Drain Psyche the build should not be hard pressed to get Dark Consumption and for a level 50 dom it would only matter when exemping to, say, level 45 anyway which happens seldomly enough.
But, yeah, with my playstyle I would definitely go for more damage in Fire Cages and keep Mind Probe. Maneuvers I see as an expensive solution to the old "I have this one power choice left with but a single slot" problem. I would not actually use the power in most cases, but a bit more recharge is better than taking any other power I won't use.

Personally I would not have been too happy about losing Mind Probe, because I love that attack, but that is just personal feelings.
Gut feeling says that this build should be a bit more active than the last one, but without testing it is hard to say if it is really an improvement.
So, I would just take the dom for a ride and see what happens.
(And as a German player I am really looking forward to the end of that 3 day server downtime so that I can finally test my own doms on live servers. )

I will share a few of my thoughts.
Seeing that permadom is not that essential anymore you could reconsider some of your choices regarding power selection and slotting:
Unless you are absolutely crazy about the 5% +recharge I would redistribute some of the Stamina slots. Maybe boost an active power or two.
Running all three leadership toggles might be a bit taxing on the endurance reserves of an all-offensive toon, especially when you run Hot Feet, too. A bit too dependent on Drain Psyche for my liking.
I assume that the main reason for Psionic Lance is the +recharge from Sting of the Manticore since that toon is neither geared towards combat at extreme range nor dependent on clean sniper pulls (or snipe-related exploits for that matter). I would sacrifice this one for an attack power of your choice.
Well, these are the things I would tinker around with first. As it is you do not even have to lose permadom. There are others, like trying out alternative (damage-friendly) slottings for Fire Cages and Hot Feet, but those are really an afterthought once the build is at a level where it has decent attack chains etc.

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I'm sorry i dont see the math,perhaps you could help me out here,maybee show me a mids?

As this stands i will be leaving the game,that'll be the 3rd game ncsoft has either closed or ruined for me.

Help is much appreciated!

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Since we are not you it would be a lot easier the other way round. Give us your build and a few thoughts on your playstyle and stuff like that, then we take a look at it and tell you why it does not work out as you would like it to. Saves us the effort of having to make wild guesses and churn out something good only to have it shot down by you because you do not like the travelpower or something along those lines.

Hmmm, I could think of three conditions that might lead to an instant breaking of a pact:

1. Account of pact partner goes inactive.
2. Pacted toon is logged in while the account of the pact partner is inactive.
3. Pacted toon earns xp while the account of the pact partner is inactive.

Number 1 does not seem to be the case, so if a pact does break at all it is probably due to condition 2 or 3. Unfortunately testing this would require two accounts with one of these running out. Meh!

Special character? Hmmm, yes, that would be 32 for me... and the number is growing. I am a severe case of altoholism, but I have rigid standards. I am known to delete characters (even high-level ones) just because their concept does not 'feel right' or it is too similar to another character's concept. Or to say it the other way round: I only keep characters that are fun to play and feel 'alive' enough to be real characters rather than mere avatars to play the game with.

No wings for widows in their work clothes, sorry. Actually, there are not many non-uniform parts at all to use in the widow cossie slot... iirc everything but auras is locked out.

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Just someone with the same name or is it actually him?

[/ QUOTE ]It is him. Either that or he lied to us and hacked the RoM homepage... or it is a conspiracy and somebody who looks just like him took his name... or... no, it is him.

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Anyway anyone got the info i´m looking for?

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Sure. Here are the base values for Combustion at level 50.

Live servers:
Damage: 70,9
Recharge: 15s
Endurance: 13

Test:
Damage: 75,91
Recharge: 17s
Endurance: 16

If you do the maths for this one attack it is a nerf unless we factor in larger outside bonusses. (Dominators in teams with a /kin are godly on Test. Damage cap is now so much nicer than before.) Fortunately there is more than one power in that set, so we still come out with a net buff.

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They haven't. In fact most of them have been buffed. You are looking at the damage scalar in isolation, not taking into acount the base damage increase that underlies that.


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I'm looking at the power:
rech increased, end increased... ok damage is upped but not the frequency of use... which is ... sorry but yes: a nerf in the damage cycle or at least not a buff, have to admit it.

Anyway, i'm stopping complaining about this; it will change nothing and people seems to just look at big red damaging numbers.




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I think the problem is more on your side of the conversation. People do not just look at the big damage numbers. To the contrary: People are judging the changes after looking at whole attack chains (single target and AoE) instead of looking at a single power. (Although even when looking at single powers the dps has gone up in many cases.)
If you absolutely insist on using the very same attack chain after the changes as before it is no surprise that you will stand around for some seconds doing nothing, thus lowering your dps. But with two main powersets bursting with active powers you would have to have a strange build if you were unable to adapt your attack chain accordingly. (And with greatly increased dpa there is no way of hurting your dps in that process.)
Just try it for yourself: Build two attack chains with a dominator powerset combination of your choice (one with current values, one with future ones) and compare the attack chain values. If you make even the slightest effort to build a somewhat efficient attack chain you will realise the following:
- dps has gone up by a considerable amount
- dpe is roughly in the same league, a bit higher for some sets, a bit lower for others
- eps has gone up, but only because you do more dps with more or less unchanged dpe

So, where was that nerf again?

There are not many badges that make me go "wow".
Probably the only one is "Member of the Scorpion Clan" which unfortunately I do not have anymore since I deleted the only toon that had it. (Stupid altoholism. A real problem back in the days before additional character slots. )
Other than that I only go "wow" when I see high-level toons without badges that they should have got more or less automatically while levelling up... usually followed up by a quick one-star-rating and a "PL" added to the notes.

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With your level 50 dom, make a new one on test, use second build to remake your build but with SOs instead of IOs, and give it another test. :3 See if the new endurance is still much of a drain

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I am afraid I do not understand. I said that possible endurance issues are hardly noticeable at level 50, so the new endurance is not much of a drain to begin with.
Actually, both my dominators never encountered any endurance issues at all (one using IOs and the other SOs), so much so that I even decided to push Consume a few levels back on my Earth/Fire as I will hardly need it anytime soon.
And that is while going at a fast pace killing more mobs in less time than at any point before (although the mind/psi needed to work harder for that result because of weakened PSW). It was as if both had suddenly pulled a miniature blaster (or two in the case of the Earth/Fire) out of their pocket to blow the largely helpless enemies to smithereens.
Also, I fail to notice how using SOs rather than IOs would help in any way.

I suppose you still have a second build with a Crab Spider spec.
The backpack will stay part of your costume unless you respec both builds to Bane Spider. This has in-character reasons as the backpack is indeed fused with a Crab Spider's spine and as long as you still have a Crab Spider build you are considered a "part-time Crab". No major neuro-surgery until you are very certain to not want to be a Crab anymore, sorry.

Not at launch, but villainous champions are planned.

Mutation through radioactive radiation, eh?
"Dammit, the brute has caused me yet another random costume change!"

/signed