Shen__EU

Sorudo said CoX. Last time I checked PRAF, CoX was both CoH and CoV combined. Please do correct me if I am wrong on that one though.

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one thing ppl has to consider, COX was original made for PVE-only, so it's not such a wonder that PVP doesn't work out the way it is now.

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Wrong. CoX wasn't originally designed for PvE only because of CoV. The intention of PvP was always there because of the creation of CoV. Just because CoV wasn't implemented until issue 7, and arena's wasn't implemented until issue 4 doesn't mean that CoX was specifically desinged for PvE only. If it was however CoV would've been released as a separate game, but that wouldn't have been a good decision from a business perspective.

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Sorry if any offence was caused. It was supposted to be a joke. I'll delete the post.

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Don't worry mate. If anyone gave it three times the attention your guides normally get, only 2 people read it.

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Lmfao!

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It seems to me that the casual players, those that *might* pvp occasionally for fun are put off by

1: Those with certain pvp powersets
2: Those with uber builds
3: Those with lots of practice

Dominating the zones.

I13 was trying to level out the playing field, which imho went horribly wrong.

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To be precise, the goal of the changes in I13 was to de-emphasise the first two of those items listed.

The third, assuming that practise brings skill, isn't as huge an issue. Anyone with a genuine interest in PvP (that includes 'casual' PvPers) should not be scared off by being beaten by player skill. Being beaten by a specialised niche build that saps fun (eg getting perma-dommed and being unable to do much of anything until you die) is far more likely to cause a prospective PvP player to not play.

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I'm sorry GR, but regardless of what the i13 PvP balancing was for, it wasn't fair to implement it in the 1st place.

Point 1. Those with certain PvP powersets.

If a player wants to PvP and they decide to roll a toon specifically for PvP they are going to choose a set-up which is going to A) give them the highest chance of succeeding and B) suit their play style. They are not for example, going to roll an empathy defender and play it like a blaster. Just like in PvE if there was a tank and a scrapper, you wouldn't expect the scrapper to tank.

Also on a side note, powersets aren't anything. Take for exmaple, TG. He rolled a Assault Rifle blaster (cant remember the secondary). As a lot of you will know AR is primarily cone/AoE based. It consists of 1 sniper power, 2 ST powers, 3 short to medium ranged cone powers and 3 AoE powers. IMO the worst set to PvP with imaginable. Yet, TG still managed to gain the 400 rep Disrupter badge. Now if AR has the potential to reach that standard, please do not insult my intelligence to say that balance was needed because those who ventured into the PvP zones didn't have the "Ideal PvP" powersets.



Point 2. Those with Uber Builds.

Those who have (had) uber builds had to work for it, whether it was by farming or TF grinding. They still had to put the time and effort into acquiring the influence or that certain recipe drop they needed/wanted. Diminishing Returns is a joke. You say it was designed to balance PvP. And by god it leveled the playing field. Those who had spent the time and effort were no better off than those who went and bought SO enhancements. DR now meant IO's were pointless. And those who spent ages getting them basically got a kick in the nuts, along with the message of "haha" from those who just got it handed to them on a silver platter by a butler called Reginald. Yet you provided the answer to those who wanted that specific unique IO or set. You created the merit system. A spark of genious I must admit. The merit system had the potential to do several things.
1. Make it easier for everyone to kit out their builds the way they wanted them to be.
2. Reduce farming. It would be far more appealing to join a TF, gain the influence along the way, with the chance of drops still and then recieve those lovely shiny merits at the end. The only advantage PI farming has now is to PL a character quickly.
3. Increase the amount of player activity for things like TFs. Before this system was introduced it was a huge pain in the derierre to get a Positron TF together. Never in my life have I seen so many calls for Posi to be started when the merit system came out.

So all I can say is that if i13 was just the release of the additional content and the merit system, there would have been a better balance post i12 tha it is now. This ofc is from a PvP perspective. PvE doesn't interest me anymore because I have pretty much done it all and it's all the same. The only thing PvE needs now is a lot more decent content. I would give Cimerora as an example, but imo it was a huge let down. 1 TF (which is the only decent thing about it, at a stretch) and repeatable missions does not classify as good playable content in my book.

[u]Conclusion:[u]

Roll back to i12 PvP and promote the use of the merit system (e.g increase the amount of merits for story arcs etc) and I think you will find better balance than this game has had so far. If this happens then its a win for everyone.

(Also, those that don't like the trash talk over broadcast remove it from the window, takes 2 seconds and saves an awful lot of stress. And for those who find certain players childish/abusive in PvP zones, all I can say is that's what /ignore is best for. Simple yet effective.)

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QR

Having given this careful thought, I've come to the following conclusion.

PvP can NEVER be "fixed" in this game. It doesn't matter what the devs do, there will always be a group of people who aren't happy, and will make damn sure everyone knows it.

Best course of action, roll back to i12 PvP so that hopefully the PvPers who left in a strop come back, and forget about trying to get more people in to it. It's just not going to happen.

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^This. No offense FFM but it didn't need that much thinking tbh

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If they had been set up as training simulators, Danger Rooms, then they'd make sense, but no, we have to come up with this spurious backstory about gladiatorial combat for a new age. It's dumb, and totally doesn't fit the rest of the story.


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Arena's technically are "Danger/simulator rooms". Unless you are talking about these danger rooms having only NPCs in. If thats the case you may as well take your lvl 50 and practice in Atlas Park for Recluses Victory. I hear level 2 hellions are extremely tough

Unless you can think of a way to implement human PvP player standard AI into these NPCs, what you state doesn't actually hold any ground.

Arena's are there for practice. No-one cares about the back story. I know I don't. I use them to improve they way I play and to have fun doing so, and I'm sure there are lots of other people who do too.

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PvP fails in MMO's because Tank classes have no true role and become ignored players.

Fix the Tank and PvP can grow from there imho.

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L M A O

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^ This.

Are you insane? Have you ever faced a tank in zonal PvP? Do you know how annoying they are when they taunt you? You can't do f all to the squishy you are trying to pound.

And I'd like to see you say that to a Fire/SS(or EM) tbh.

"Ignored"...Hah! What a load of pants...

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I would be really interested to see what ATs the PVPers who dont like the changes are.

It seems to me that people playing the squishier ATs like the changes as they live a little longer, but the tougher ATs dont as they can no longer one shot things.

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Cold Defender.

And the changes still suck @$$.

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PvP, in my opinion, does not include:
-see something flash by, being 80% HP hit while your oponent is already a 50-80ft away (at least).
-jumping around like crazy in a box that even popcorn would feel ashamed.
-from 1 moment to another standing in a pile of traps, your screen overflood with 'things' and 1 second later you are on the ground looking at the you-died-window.
-Without mez standing held, stunned, feared, whatever for 99% of the battle. (or either dead on the ground).


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Tiddlywinks then.

The whole point of CoX PvP was that it was stupidly fast. It's that factor which set it well above the other MMO PvP in the market now. It was a case of keep up or fall down.

And another point. I hear a lot of people moan about how fully kitted builds are so much better and that is the reason for winning. My answer to that is go talk to Max Powerz. He PvPs with a standard basic IO'd toon, with the odd proc here and there, and he would still beat at least 80% of those who took a shot at him.

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To be honest, I don't think CoH can both satisfy its current PvE-heavy subscription-base and hardcore PvPers. To "fix" CoH in order to please hardcore PvPers strikes me as robbing Peter to pay Paul.

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All the devs had to do was leave the zones alone, and the PvP engine alone. Simple when you think about it. PvE'ers are unaffected by this so why half of you are moaning about it is beyond me.

PvP needs rewards. Simple as. Rewards means that both the "hardcore" are happy because they get to do what they pay for, and it will also increase the amount of people because there is extra added incentive for.
(Here comes the "Doesn't matter how much reward there is for PvP I still won't do it" comments. Regardless of how many people state that they wouldnt PvP for anything I can guarantee there will be players that would)

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(Example: If I was to say "I know Ghostraptor's actually a member of the Albanian royal family - the proof's on the web somewhere, but I can't be bothered to link to it", would your default position be to believe me until someone else spent time disproving it? )


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Yes.

*hides from His Majesty*

And if he doesn't? Does that mean what he says is wrong? I don't think so.

This could go back and forth til the end of the world comes. But until someone proves him wrong, then no-one can say his statement is false. You don't have to go searching for his source to do this, find your own. But so far no-one has posted anything. (if they have then i've missed it because i'm tired)

Me.

*hides from GR*

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*attempts to find a rather blunt object to beat mereman with*

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Try a Unionite's wit

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Don't use my example as what Union has to offer in the wit category, because that ain't fair on the rest of union. But on the other hand my wit is better than the whole of defiant put togther

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In the Union one?

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Yes if you want to join sheer class

*attempts to find a rather blunt object to beat mereman with*

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Let me put this another way. I already HAD characters for pvp. Then devs in their infinite wisdom keep nerfing those characters (repeatedly over several issues) so Im supposed to grind MORE to get OTHER characters. [censored] off.

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Join the club. We even have free health insurance (nerfing excluded). 1 condition, drop all the "me me I I" cr4p because this hasn't just happened solely to you

MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRY CHRISTMAS!!! ENJOY YOUR SOCKS!!

Disclaimer: How you choose to use your socks is entirely up to you, but should not be discussed if it crosses 'that' boundary. Thank you for your co-operation.

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I play other games for skill-intensive pvp allright. Counterstrike or any other kind of shooter is not among them though.

What bugs me to no small degree is that this game USED to have ok PVP, but then IOs were introduced and it turned into WoW.

I am vocal because this game has nothing left to offer except what is left of pvp. It was my first MMO, I would like to hang around. But I cannot tolerate PvE anymore.

If you dont want me around then fine.
edit: accounts cancelled.

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Hammer, to be honest, you're just annoyed that people who put more effort/time in to the game end up with a better build than you.

It's not much different from someone at level 40 whining because a level 50 has 4 more powers and 21 odd more slots.

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That is why I play games without level progression.

I got better things to do in my life than waste countless hours of boring and repetitive WORK just so I could get a CHANCE to play PVP.

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So for those who do want to spend countless hours bettering their build, why should they be punished?

The fact that CoX is a lvl progression based game has nothing to do with it. Its your choice to play it, but to state that you have to do boring work to be able to make your character better is not anyone elses problem.
If you get bored of spending hours on something, in the end, you really cant be ar$ed for then other shouldnt get penalised for it. Its not right, nor is it fair.

Who are they again?

Merry Xmas anyway

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Made you look....




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I hate you.

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Merry Christmas folks. Get drunk (currently doing atm) , have fun (with alcohol yes) , enjoy your presents (Socks ftw) , and don't play monopoly! (only causes arguments)

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Merry Xmas *puts mistletoe above FFM and Ravenswing then runs and hides*

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Rooks is right about the arena being the best place to show each other how good you are as everything can be 100% fair.

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Rooks is right but you are still a nab cause you havent set foot in arena except when ALL the good EU pvp population left.

Oh wait you set foot in X4 even proclaimed you were gonna win then got sandblasted hard.

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Wow. 3 posts directly for me. I feel special. Fancy letting me know who you are?

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My source tells me its TG

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No wai! TGs spelling was never that good

Only joking if it is TG

Mind you it was better than most english players spelling

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Union all the way for me! I even moved Coin over to union and am planning on moving my second 50 across as well.

Rarely touch Defiant now

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Never had chance to say welcome to the best server, so i'll say it now...Welcome to the best server Coin

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The devs stated that the game wasn't made harder because of IOs.

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Im sure devs pvp an awful [censored] lot.

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No. I highly doubt that.

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No, they do - they need to see which parts players enjoy the most, so those can be targeted for "improvements"

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By "improvements" do you mean 'screwing up'? Just in a more subtle bare faced lie kinda way?