Shadow_Stone

Castle,

Your a hero in the users eyes!

Castle,

I appreciate the response, but the impression your giving is that User documented bugs in a friendly and well thought out format only get attention from developers willing to put in an extra amount of overtime out of the goodness of their hearts rather than having dedicated resources to address these very serious concerns.

At the very least you give the impression that the community doing these things is pretty much a wasted time and are/have been likely ignored for a very long time as player concerns are basicly being/have been ignored.

Like I said, I very much appreciate you looking at these issues Castle, but to me this just re-enforces the notion that the dedicated users are being ignored. It certainly explains why the fact that Controller Storm powers have been operating at Defender Strength or better for over a year.

Seems to be me that some sort of easy system that would allow folks to trade and sell Salvage and allow the big SGs/VGs with all the work tables to sell and maufacture items for Hideouts would be a Very Good Thing (tm). Especialy, if the items crafted could be customized in color or shape to some degree.

This also would give folks a reason to visit other SG/VG hideouts where they can "show off" their cool bases.

Seems to me that just having a base with some walls and decorations should be a very minimial cost, and only when you want to start adding bell's and whistles should the costs start to escalate IMHO.

Just need a way to warehouse items, a visitor to base system, and some automated merchant system ideally (where folks could pay in influence or prestige). Rest should take care of itself.

Would a lot of these problems go away if they just remove the melee/range type? Seriously this is kinda stupid anyway. Do you care if a bullet is fired from 1' away vs 20' feet away?

Does it really make sense that a hero is resistent to fire attacks that are made at range verses a fire attack that is made within melee range? Under the current weird logic, it does. If you are resistant to fire, you should be resistant to fire....

I am sure this was a funky way of translating that folks closer to you should have an easier time to hit you you, but to me I think it is easier to add acc to melee attacks and reduce acc on ranged attacks to represent this difference then trying it to work it into the defense equation.

Fairwinds and Following Seas, first scribe of Paragon.

Background

I took stealth for my primary character (Shadow King) a dark/regen scrapper for 2 reasons. 1) For thematic concerns. Since density powers were taken off the table, I wanted my character to be largely intangible as a shadow and stealth represented that concept best. The changes for I5 has not hurt that other than with suppression it makes little visual sense now. The avoidance aspect was nice but if I really wanted it I would have taken invisibility.

2) The second reason, and perhaps most important to me, is when I looked at my powers I saw holes of vulnerability. Coming up through the ranks, playing regen was very hard. I intended originaly to take stealth late, but my play experiences said I needed more defense earlier just to survive when I played with big groups. I thought the acc debuff of my dark attacks would work nicely with stealth to increase my DEF (of which I really had none). This proved to be very good, but not overpowering IMHO. The downsides of stealth (movement penalty and end cost) were appropriate for what I got in return. Combat jumping offered almost as good a defense and appropriately didn't have the downsides stealth had--stealth was a better choice for me. I wanted to round out my character as best I could without making him "immortal".

I remember the discussions back in beta and why stealth was changed. For those that do not know, there was no real difference between it and invisibility. I agreed with the concept of combat powers in the pool powers to help round characters out. This is a good concept. Currently as implemented, Stealth is now a poor man's invisibilty. This is is conflict with the lessons we all learned in beta. Have you forgotten those times?

My Testing
I have tested the changes and the results have not been promising. What I have found on test with my scrapper is that during all fights I was essentialy suppressed the entire time (because of melee) and that there was no noticeable defense benefit given to my scrapper verses running with stealth off. The defense that it did provide was so small that is it could not be percieved. I am sure if I looked at the numbers over thousands of hits I would actualy see the 2-3% difference it provided, but on actual gameplay, it's all in the noise. What I have concluded is that this makes the power very undesireable from a DEF standpoint. It still works in its avoidance role for the most part, but if I want defense I am better off going with combat jumping or hover. I don't really need the DEF when I am traveling and when I really need it in combat its is a pale shadow of its former power that IMHO is not worth the downsides (end and movement penalties). Furthermore, the power does not seem worthy of being enhanced, which is not a good thing (tm).

As you can see there seems to be 2 camps on the feedback. It seems many blasters/defenders/controllers rely on its avoidance aspect and that is most important to them. Whereas the melee folks rely more on the DEF aspect. You will not be able to please both sides in this argument because the player base uses the power differently depending upon the AT.

It seems to me you are trying to kill an annoying fly with a howitzer. As I understand it, Stealth is not a problem in-and-of-itself. It is only a problem when it becomes stacked with other powers, specificaly superspeed, and to a lesser extent hasten (prior to I5) combat jumping, and tough and weave. In addition to the norrmal stuff you can get from folks, bubbles, etc.

Solution
My proposed solution is:

Not to allow stealth and superspeed (or any other combo that is too powerful you already have done this with Steamy Mist and the like).

Move invisibility back to a less than 20 power pool power for those that just want an avoidance power.

The stealth detection radius not be entirely suppressed, but the range of detection increased a small amount while attacking.

The DEF should not be suppressed (ever). It is a combat power.

Stealth/Invisvbility should be a viable tactic for achieving some missions.

Your current solutions are to complicated and will just make balancing even more difficult as your introducing too much complexity in something that should be simple.

Combat pool powers should all have 5% defense (cost for this) + cost of the secondary effect (avoidance, flight, verticle movement, imobilization protection, etc.

Gil said: [ QUOTE ]
may have a foundation in history, it is very likely they will not match up directly because our game is fictional.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then I must ask, why not make up new names? Based on the few screenshots I have seen, the The Tuatha De Dannann (spelling difference) were not monsters but men and women. Nuada of the Silver Hand, Lugh, Dagda? This seems to have been totaly ignored. I would rather you make up new mythologies and names rather than take very broad poetic license with existing mythologies.

These names and people do conotate certain expectations in people's minds and you risk alienating those folks because of playing fast and loose with people's histories and cultures.

For some reason I can't fathom, its real easy to get your first badges in Atlas, and very difficult to get them in Galaxy City.

I actualy like hunting in Galaxy over Atlas as I always seem to get missions in the western most edge of the map that is at a very differnent elevation than the main area making it very difficult to get back to the trainers/merchants after completing the mission.

Of course Atlas has Azuria who cannot for the life of her hold on to magic items that you rescue/return. That women needs to be replaced...You would think with all that Psychic power she would forsee these problems ahead of time???

I know there is artistic liscense and all, but I have read quite a bit of Irish history and while the Tuatha de Dannu were sometimes described as monsterous/powerful or demonized, most of the time they were described as human-like. The models being used in I5 expansion do not look like anything I have ever imagined for them

Petty, I know, but coming from Mythology expert Jack/Statesman I am confused in the direction you guys seem to be taking with these models....

My 2 cents.

I find the production values of the new series to be much superior than of Blue Kings.

The problem I had with Blue King's is I had trouble identifying or caring about the characters. I started to like Horus a lot, but War Witch and Apex never engendered much excitement or caring in me.

I have to agree with what several of the posters have said. Mark seems to have missed the boat on several levels. Anyone that has gone through the trials that the Rikti war caused and that the surviving eight experienced would have/should have brought those folks together in ways very few people can imagine. They did not act like they have gone through war together, that they have risked their lives numerous times for each other, that they trusted each other implicitly that one would need to in a team setting with such high stakes. This struck me as very strange and did not seem as if they were genuine.

Secondly, one motif that is well represented over and over in the comics is that is the power that makes the hero or the heart? Clearly in order for a true hero to be a hero it exists within their heart. With the exception of Synapse's mental problems as a plausible excuse, I did not get the impression that these heroes were heroes at all when their powers were taken away. That makes them hard to believe in them as Superheroes. Hero: see Capt America. While he has some powers, to me he embodies what a hero really is. It is in his heart and no one can question that.

After reading the first 2 stories, I found it extremely disjointed and hard to follow. It did not "flow". I have been tempted to pull out some of my favorite comics from the early 80s and actualy do a panel count, because to me it seems like they are trying to stuff to much material in to few pages/panels.

If this is the trend in comics today, I understand why they are dying. I really don't care if its on glossy paper, I never minded that the stories were on newsprint. Sure there are art limitations with it, but to me story was almost always more important than the art. If pages and panels are being sacrificed due to cost of the nicer paper and the actual art costs of the panels (which in general are very nice), than I think the overall book is sufferring significantly. These stories seem way to short to what I am accustomed to, and like. I would not buy these off the shelf with so little actual material.

Lastly, I feel a bit betrayed by Statesman as he has always stated he was a natural hero that got his powers through his "inner will". It seems his powers are magic based. The powers of Zeus are magical are they not????

When you play a villan are you given a choice or is a mental disorder assigned to you (e.g. meglomania, kleptomania, paranoia, bed-wetting)?

When you set elaborate traps for a hero and have them in your clutches is it mandatory you have to leave to do a mission, and thus allow them to escape?

Villans seem to have unlimited resources, will we?

Lord Recluse, I know how you think villan. You said:

[ QUOTE ]
Given the date, I thought I should post something. However, one of these things is not true.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is is the untruth! All three things you mentioned are likely in CoV.

You have met your match Villan! The heroes of Paragon City will be there to thwart your every move.

Shadow

Thanks for the info Poz, I whole heartedly agree with these changes that level the playing field. I can easily imagine super speed blasters impossible for a melee type to kill without also having super speed.

Ranged flyers would also be difficult for ground based melee types, as they would never be able to win against a ranged flyers. In the comic books they can always pick up something and throw it, not true in this game for the most part.

Statesman said: [ QUOTE ]
Penalty for more than 4 people? Certainly not XP wise; players get an XP bonus for having larger and larger groups. What are you referring to?

[/ QUOTE ]

In answer to your question Statesman, on the 4 person team, I think my anecdotal experience is that more than 4 characters on a team is not optimal (and thus if it is not optimal others might consider it a penalty) for 2 reasons.

Reason 1) You get a front loaded mission with 8 folks, sure you get lots of minions, but they tend to be more hassle than they are worth, and with a small level spread in the party, you can have 7-8 folks killing green and grey mobs. Ya gotta remember, most missions are not run at the optimal time in your character's level. Frequently, you get blue and green missions by the time you get around to doing yours if your not the highest level person in your group. Extra minions really do not increase the risk all that much, but they do increase the time it takes to arrest them. This gives the illusion/reality of lower dps.

Reason 2) A well balanced team of 4 can kill just as well as a group of 8. In fact you get 2-3 tanks/controllers on a team and they are largely redundent and not needed, almost 5th wheels. Get 2-3 blasters and things just die really fast anyway. Except for blasters, and to some degree defenders, the game does not handle redundent classes in a group very well. It is just not optimal. So you might as well stick with 3-4 folks and you will do fine and get good xp. You can run through missions pretty fast and if you want a challenge you can take on some red/low purples on the streets.

This is my anecodtal experiences anyway...take them for what they are.