Shadestorm

Not that these ideas don't have merit, but my major issue is that by and large they're simply re-skins of existing features. While I, like many, are in favor of adding more convenience functionality to bases I can't see the a real benefit in having customized SG versions of these features.

If anything, like many others have suggested, you'd be much better off simply mirroring the existing functionality as a convenience feature the same way teleporters and the Oro crystal are implemented. It would also be the most direct implementation method.

The arena and Architect communities are small enough as is, I can't say I like the idea of purposely splintering them further.

HOWEVER! (I love that word.)

The general themes of these suggestions both hit home on a system that's rather common place in superheroic bases which is missing from our bases. The idea of an area to hone your combat skills (and lets face it, City is really all about combat.) in a safe area at home is pretty much universal in comics.

Rather than re-use of an existing system, how about dreaming up something new?

****************The Training Room**************

This room is available in multiple sizes, and can be fitted with a special base equipment type: Training equipment.

At its most base level, the training room is simply an empty room in which PvP flags are on. You can enter the room, and fight with anyone not in your group. This room confers debt protection, and while holographic enemies defeated in the training room do not award real material goods, defeated holograms award their full amount in virtual XP as patrol experience, up to a maximum of one level of patrol experience per 24 hours.

Supergroup members who spend time training will find themselves advancing in power and recovering from defeats much faster than if they had not spent time in a training room!

When fitted with specialized equipment, the training room may gain a number of other features. I'm going to use tech descriptions for these, but I'm sure you smart people could come up with some arcane equivalents.

Target Dummy (dummy) - This device functions as an inert stationary target, similar to those found in the vanguard base. It has no offensive capabilities and can not be defeated, but may be helpful in gauging the range of powers, relative proc chances, or realistic end usage in an attack chain. This device is extremely inexpensive, and comes in a variety of fun visual styles.

Training Computer (Simulation Manager) - This device comes equipped with an integrated Holographic emitter and User interface capable of designing and running training programs. Unlike the mission architect, these simulations are not intended to mirror existing content. Training simulations are simply a list of spawns placed in sequential order, or on a timer. The goal of a given simulation is to complete it without being defeated in as short a time as possible. Each Training computer is capable of storing up to five custom training programs, as well as a list of the best times per simulation. In addition each Training computer comes pre-loaded with a number of built in scenarios. Training computers will only run programs for which the required number of auxiliary devices are installed.

Holographic Emitter (Training Aux) - Alone these devices do nothing. However, when linked with a training computer, each emitter allows for one more simultaneous hologram during a simulation. A single emitter is capable of supporting three minion, two lieutenants, or one boss+ level hologram.

Training Databank (Training Aux) - Alone these devices do nothing. However, when linked with a training computer, that training computer is capable of storing three additional custom training programs, and five custom architect enemies.


INPUT - In addition to the built in features, SG members can unlock additional hologram templates through the following means:

Gladiators - Any SG member can upload a holographic version of any gladiator badge he or she has unlocked to the training computer, unlocking it for further use.

Architect templates - For a price in architect tickets, vendors at any architect entertainment facility will write a custom architect enemy to a holodisc that can be used to upload it in to the system.


REWARDS - Aside from the patrol XP, The training room is capable of conferring the following rewards:

Personal badges - All built in training scenarios award badge progress toward bronze, silver, and gold level training badges.

Custom Titles - The designer of each training program can specify a badge title for the program. The SG member who holds the best ranked time for the program may wear their title proudly! These titles display in grey rather than the standard blue or "super awesome yellow" to mark their status as custom training titles (no faking bug hunter folks!)

SG badges - Rumor has it that a well trained SG may gain access to more reliable purchasing of larger sized inspirations (badge unlocks med size insp vendor - prices are equivalent to 6x comparable small), or even some inspirations that are otherwise unavaliable. These "Edge" inspirations confer the effects of two small sized inspirations in a single inspiration slot and come in a wide array of flavors! (Examples - Lucky Break: Combined Breakfree and Luck, Instinct: Combined Insight and Enrage)

Calm down. Seriously. Just take a moment and calm down.

I'm not stating this on its merit as a logical argument. I'm stating this as the reason we were given for the current limitations. I'm stating this as the reason that racks were given a 30 piece limit. Whether it makes sense or not, this is fact. That's why they were set to 30.

As long as there is finite space and an infinite supply, hoarding can never meaningfully affect the market. Duh. Of course it doesn't make sense. Yelling about it in giant green letters doesn't help your case. It makes you look emotional and reactionary rather than reasonable and thoughtful about the problem.

Posts like that one do far more harm than any amount of logical flaws in regards to the system. It shallows your argument by dressing it up as a whine rather than the legitimate point that it is. In the end, it does your cause more harm than good. Nobody wants to be yelled at when they could have just been spoken to. I'd imagine this would include Paragon Studios on the rare occasion they actually visit the base forums for community feedback.

Turning what's supposed to be a reasoned discussion in to a shouting match is not acceptable. Please calm down. People are making good points in this thread without yelling at each other. I'd like to keep this as reasonable as possible.

/em give catnip

Adding more space to the existing racks is still a larger benefit to single person SGs than it is to actual SGs. It is directly in opposition of creating an environment where people want to join and stay a member of an established SG. Would my blue side one man SG be thrilled to have all that extra bank space? Sure. Is it good for the game at large? I don't believe it is.

Personally, I don't care much about how large the racks are. I'm more concerned with what we can do with what's on them, and how it creates meaningful game play that uses the base as a centerpiece rather than a closet.

So here's a new question:

**Aside from base items and empowerment buffs, what else could we do with salvage in an SG focused system?

**Should base items continue to compete with personal IOs for salvage?

**Could base salvage be streamlined or given an alternate gain method and reintroduced?

Past a certain point, yeah, you don't lose anything. However your thinking in terms of SGs seems to be limited to the ability to get around. If I weren't sure to be hanged for the suggestion I'd advocate all prestige gained by a member being lost when the member was removed. I'm not going to suggest that because although prestige is thematically supposed to be about a certain degree of fame the group has, its more functionally apt as a currency in an economy where gain is completely clearly not proportionate to loss.

Prestige sinks are something I haven't touched on yet in the thread, but rest assured they're a topic that needs to be addressed. Rent and base raid loss were both failed ways to implement sinks. They're both functional penalties for gameplay. Rent was lowered to the point of just being a check that you're gaining a little prestige, and base raiding was a system that actively promoted PvP focused SGs preying on PvE focused SGs regardless of their desire or ability to PvP.

The problem with both of these systems was that the sinks were penalties rather than rewards. This created an environment where you HAD to spend prestige on the sink rather than WANTING to spend prestige on it.

Prestige sinks should be looked at in terms of bonuses. The option on spend prestige on finite consumables that benefit the SG in a very material way would bring that economy back in check. This is the same model that the invention system uses to create inf sinks on a personal player economic level. You spend inf because you're paying for stuff that can't re-enter the system. You craft and slot that IO and for all intents and purposes that inf is gone, and you can't get it back, but you got something worthwhile for it.

Similarly, the ability to spend prestige on something fun as a sink would help bring that prestige economy back in check. An optional sink like the market and invention systems that allows SGs to do something with extra prestige. My group for instance has no desire to upgrade to the largest plot available and fill it with a bunch of decorative rooms. We like our small but functional base. We should be able to use extra prestige. Similarly, the oldest SGs have so much extra prestige just lying around after reaching the deco limit, on a massive secure plot, with as many rooms and toys as possible. What's the benefit of gaining prestige once you hit that ceiling? For that matter, what's the functional benefit of being in the SG long enough to hit that ceiling?

If prestige is a currency, then the economy for that currency needs to be brought in line to ensure its value.

That is the problem this discussion is addressing. Bases in general don't have much in the way of functionality.

They weren't originally designed as convenience hubs. They were designed as gameplay mechanisms. Power, control, defense items, etc. The base systems were originally designed completely around base raiding. This isn't a thread about base raids. This is a thread about thinking in terms of returning bases to something that plays a more active functional role in the game play of its members. We have the convenience functions already.

The SG base should not be merely convenient. It should not be merely eye candy. It should be functional for the implementation of SG focused game play for any number of members, and for any style of SG. PvE, PvP, RP, Non-RP, Large, Small, you name it.

The topic of discussion here is ways to make that happen.

That's just it though Kat. Doing this only makes it even more attractive to leave an established SG specifically for storage reasons. The idea behind increased personal storage for all SG members was to create a system where it's more desirable to stick with the SG and work as a group. Simply increasing base storage doesn't address the problem that there's a finite limit on storage for an indeterminate number of SG members.

This means that the bigger the SG is, the less useful the storage space is because even while 1200 pieces of storage might be enough for ten people, adding ten more to the SG means there's less storage to go around.

I'm aware that personal storage increases as you level, but the thinking here was that an upgraded SG vault creates a storage slot bonus for every member, leaving the communal storage as is. Not only does this create an environment where the members want to stay in the SG (to keep their bonus storage) but it alleviates any headaches for leadership when determining permissions. They can use the racks for communal storage, but it makes a situation where using an SG base as a personal vault is less efficient than using an SG base as an SG base. Racks were originally designed as a group utility. They were used to store base salvage, which could only be used on base items. Bases were converted to personal salvage, and thus were the racks. They limits were put in place to prevent hoarding invention salvage.

This system still prevents too much hoarding on invention salvage, but doesn't penalize the SG for adding more members in terms of salvage storage. Thus, you're not nerfing one man SGs. You're buffing SGs as a whole in a manner that encourages sticking with the SG. More people working together will gain more storage for more people. The way it is now, and the way it would be with larger racks is the problem we already have. More people working together actually gains LESS storage for more people.

As for empowerment buffs, these are fine as is. I'm against static "you're in the group so you are more powerful" buffs. If anything I wouldn't mind seeing empowerment expanded. It's essentially a crafted temp power, and it would stand to reason that if the current empowerment that grants sorta okay buffs for common salvage is balanced on a cost/benefit scale, why shouldn't we be able to utilize the same system to do even more powerful enhancement for more costly (as in rarity level) salvage?

Oh definately. Most hardline set slotting is overkill for nomal content on most toons. I was just presenting the AoE hole as a playable option for even extreme circumstances that people would commonly softcap for. Aside from situations like the end of the RSF where you might find yourself sucking up multiple AV level aoes at once you can still get that sort of extreme performance. In my case I took retsu specifically for hard AoE situations. Not only did it give me a free slot for a luck of the gambler +rech, but since the build normally operates fine without it, it's usually up and ready to go when I know I'm in that situation.

As for the OP, even if you're not softcapping, more def is ALWAYS useful, as long as you're not delving in to the extreme diminishing return over the softcap. I'd have to find the post, but Dechs did a nice writeup about softcapping and def in general. Basically, even as little as 3% more def is actually useful mitigation, wheras 3% more resistance is a waste of time.

So if your survivability is good now, and you just want a little more, going for a bit more def slotting will absolutely show you a difference. Softcapping is more about going "tank mode" on your stalker, making him so ridiculously hard to hit that he's capable of sucking up a full mob's worth of aggro if a tank dies for a while provided his mez protection doesn't get overwhelmed. For stalkers, def softcapping also puts you in a situation where you can use placate-AS as part of an attack chain even in the middle of a huge mob because if you're not taking the hit, you're not getting interrupted. Unlike other melee ATs, for a stalker this directly translates to a larger damage output.

However it's only one way to build a stalker, and shouldn't be considered the only way to do it

Maybe there's a setting somewhere in mids I'm missing for that. I recently did a numbers comparison with the ingame numbers which is where I figured this out. This prompted athe use of a freespec I had lying around to fix the problem. My numbers with hide on in mids were giving me the fully hidden def values, not the nonsupressed.

Also worth noting I three slotted hide with standard IOs for def so my hide numbers are a little inflated compared to a single slotted or utility slotted build.

Lies. Resurgence is the best afterlife. I'm starting a church.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vimZj8HW0Kg

It's an odd animal to be sure. I think the way I'd see it working was as a ranged smashing set. It would tohit like a melee attack, but all attempts to hit the user would be addressed at his actual location. The speed/teleporting would be purely a visual effect except for the case of the powers in the set that actually do move you. Those powers use the "deposit you in angry mob" as a penalty rather than a bonus. This would place it in a very interesting position in terms of team DPS composition. It's a blaster that hit rolls like it was a scrapper. Its still as squishy as a scrapper, its still very much a ranged set. Unless you're already slotting up a blapper build, this set wouldn't turn you in to one instantly.

Plus, I can only imagine what the snipe would look like.

Human Peacebringer!

^This!

Actually it sort of applies to the entire principal of the SG mission. Members of the JLA fight crime every day. However it isn't every day that you need the WHOLE JLA to polish something off. Similarly, I'm concerned about the pacing of SG missions, which is where the whole SG tip idea springboarded from, based on your skeletal example above in the thread.

One thing that irks me to no end is that unique events like SFs and TFs are farmed. This is going to happen no matter what of course. It's a video game. People see the most direct path to the most shinies and will take it. More than anything the whole question of base content should really feel like an event rather than another thing to be farmed. Something you'd actually want to put in the MOTD that everyone would get together for.

Tip system was the best I could come up with to sort of reinforce that buildup to an important SG mission 'event' because due to the timer limit, tip runs don't really feel like a pointless farm to me. Sure, they ARE a farm. They're designed, like everything else to be rinsed and re-used. This is inevitable given the style of game City is. The point is that the morality tip system feels good because you don't really ever go farming for tips. They happen, and you get around to them, or you go for all your daily tips in one swoop and its over fast and you move on.

Putting the PVE raids as part of that system puts a layer on top of a layer. If the SG missions themselves are a fairly uncommon task per week, then an uncommon result of that system which resulted in a PVE raid on your base would be all the more uncommon.

I'm sure there are other ways of going about it, and the proposed SG tip idea was the most direct system I could dream up. You're all smart people. How else could we make this sort of thing "special" without necessitating CoP or Hami level number of players?

I'm *really* attempting to keep this thread on topic so that there's an ongoing constructive discussion about something other than visuals and our inability to move a beaker rack six millimeters to the left. Those issues have threads already. They're important issues that are already being addressed (somewhat) in several other really good threads.

Please be a really nice bunny and don't derail my poor thread. It's on life support as is and in need of a community ideas infusion!