Sentry4

I think the poster is more interested in the idea that it's something "crazy" and new. Look at the first 4 words of their post.

Problem is...

Petless MMs have been being made since 2006. It's not new, it's not crazy, it's an old idea and there's no much more to say that hasn't been said.

I think this all has less to do about petless MMs and more to do with a "look at me! I thought of something nobody else ever has!".

This is impossible.

PvP damage numbers are always different than PvE damage numbers. Therefore, PvE damage numbers will not ever be altered for any PvP reasons.

Not to mention, the 'Psi hole' doesn't exist in PvP. My invul brute's 2nd highest resistance type was Psi, and that was without aiming for any psi bonuses. Psi melee wouldn't be considered OP in PvP unless it had massive DPS or massive burst. It's one of the most resisted and used damage types in PvP.

Gloom/Burn/Gloom -would- take 487% recharge.

Burn's arcanatime is 2.244
You need Gloom to recharge 0.2 seconds earlier to not have a gap
Therefore gloom needs to recharge in 2.044 seconds.

12/2.044 = 5.87
Subtract one and you get the recharge necessary to run it without a gap. 4.87 or 487% recharge.

With 190% global and 100% in the power, we're at 290% recharge.

12/3.9 = 3.07 seconds + 0.2 to recharge fully = 3.27 seconds.

3.27 second recharge - 2.244 second burn = 1.026 second gap

It would actually be worth it to throw in a proc'd jab inbetween. That way it's gapless, and instead of sitting there for 1.026 seconds, you can deal damage for 1.32 seconds inbetween. Even if you were to throw an unslotted brawl brawl inbetween (1.056 seconds), your damage would probably go up.

-Maybe- if you ran both t4 spiritual and t4 ageless, but even then I don't think so. Ageless is only 10% perma, and spiritual adds about 30% after you hit ED. 40% recharge isn't going to make using Gloom/Haymaker/Jab/Gloom better than Gloom/Haymaker/Gloom.


Also, funny enough, with 190% global recharge and 100% in haymaker, Gloom/Haymaker/Gloom has a 1.554 second gap. Enough for a punch, or a jab, or a brawl, or a boxing, and then with those you'll still have a gap.

You would need 487% recharge in gloom to use Gloom/Burn/Gloom assuming you have safety period of 0.2s for gloom to 'fully' recharge.

Even with 200% global recharge and 100% in the power, you're looking at a 2 second gap of every couple of seconds.

Also, I'm not sure if ending the chain with the beginning of the chain is a way of saying "repeat", but obvious ET-->ET isn't practical, nor is KoB-->KoB.

The Super Strength DPS chain uses Haymaker if I remember correctly.




To the OP:

I have no clue. I just wanted to let you know I disagree with the above poster in more ways than one.

I thought I'd quote this specific part rather than the whole message, and I'll state my stance now that I disagree with the majority of it.

While I may have even agreed with you on average that the least useful are PvPers and farmers, I can't even go that far. The majority of us understand it's more the player than the build. It's easy for -any- of my PvP builds to near solo nades or acids among dying blasters left and right. I mean my ranged as well, it's not hard stocking up on 20 purples and using all your single target DPS on crates.

In fact, the majority of trials are just that, single target DPS on bags of HP. If anything, PvPers specialize in that. We try to aim for max damage in a power, then top it off with multiple procs. We make sure we have enough recharge to chain our powers with DR, meaning with it off we're absolutely fine.

The 2 fastest incarnate trials runs I've had were done by both PvPers and farmers.
I can't speak to the PUG PvPer on freedom, but the PvPers I know are the kind to speed run TFs endlessly to get rare goods and grind their character as much as possible. For example, you won't find anyone who can get all their accolades faster than experienced PvPers. Possibly badgers, but accolades involve a lot of movement, which PvPers kind of specialize in (traveling from A --> B quickly).

In fact, the fastest SLAM I've ever been on was right around when it came out, and the majority of the team didn't speak english. I'm not joking either. Serious farmers will speed through things much faster than anyone else in the game, it may very well be their profession to do so. If you were talking about just anyone rolling a farming SS/Fire brute, well, that could be anyone.

Which brings me to another point. PvPers are also PvErs. You can't download the game and jump into a PvP zone, and that's why I have trouble getting outside friends inside the game. PvP in this game is gated behind a lot of PvE. Nobody joins CoH with the intention to PvP. They join to PvE, enjoy that part of the game, then move onto PvP when they're 50. There are no PvPers and PvErs, there are those who prefer one or the other, but PvPers still PvE a lot.

Every PvPer at one point was a PvEr, meaning that every PvPer you dislike was also a PvEr at one point. If that's the case, there's no way to tell if a PvEr is a soon-to-be PvPer or not. People don't magically become a jerk when they cross into PvP.

Not to mention, I'd rather have SS/Fire farming brutes covering the BAF doors than anyone else. Killing them before they step out of the door is nice. You've got an SS/Fire, so I'm sure you know what I'm talking about.



I've had my share of trials wrecked by PUG PvPers, moreso than pure PvErs, but that doesn't outweigh that some of the most experienced and skilled players in this entire game are also PvPers.

I quoted that line at the top because I didn't want a respected forum poster, someone who has a lot of influence on people, to paint the wrong picture of PvPers. We have enough trouble as it is without people pointing out people even -we- dislike and grouping us all together.

PS: The average PvP build is upwards of 7-10 billion, whereas the average PvE build is nowhere near that.

I hadn't thought of that. I didn't see Reactive damage as a huge problem, but it -is- always the first thing I see on my buff bar before a spike.

I don't think judgements would be a problem, if anything it'll counter any teams with MMs.

That being said, if all the previous leagues were alpha-only, I'd trust they knew what they were doing.

The math is really complex to get it exactly at cap.

Some run speed buffs are percents, while others are straight addition. I still haven't gotten around to doing the math, because it would depend on the build (DR affects the slotting of powers, which ranges). Then you have to factor if they have stealth's -movement.

As a rule of thumb, slot for as much run speed as possible. That way, you'll definitely hit the cap. Maybe someone else has some experience or examples of how to hit the cap.

I've bolded that specific part.

I wanted to ask, how is it mechanically possible to skip the rooting time of some powers? I know strafing with certain directions can skip the rooting time, and I also reguarly skip weapon redraw by untargeting/Queueing an attack to retarget to skip animation.

If you've got a Weapon/Regen character, use MoG without a target, then click an attack twice to skip the long rooting time of MoG. The first time hitting it, you'll target an enemy, the next you'll queue the attack and draw your weapon during the MoG animation (instead of after).

You can't use any powers during it, but it allows movement (and drawing your weapon).

From my understanding, reading the above rules and talking to the leaders, it looks as if leaders will be able to -vote- on the rules for each match.

That means, as far as I'm concerned, this is pretty much Alpha-only, unless 2 teams specifically want them (Probably won't).

I was refering to this. (click it to see the post)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plasma There are some people who are much more aggressive/attentive than I am who are sniping my (in one case by literally 1 influence) on some bids.

I was much more active in the market 3 months ago, and I haven't touched it for about a month now. My bids used to all end in some combination of 1/2/3, since I dislike having to reach over to the zero each time.

I.E. 150,123,121

I would have cared at the time, but not now. I'm inactive on the market. Also, in bidding wars I would use all zeros at different levels so it looked more natural.

Remember when you said that sometimes you had someone bidding exactly 1 ahead of you?

Yea, that was me. Sorry xD, I was inching up 1 on you for weeks straight across every non-damage purple. Was really funny reading that post of yours. Good times.

I've got 9 fully PvP IOed toons, incarnated/accoladed etc. I stopped need money, so I've stopped bidding.

and as I said before, it's a pain to keep up with it all. Good luck to anyone else who is willing to try it.

My final plan was to have 70 characters with reinforced alignments so that I could run the SSA1-1 10x a day and collect 100 converters a day. I got about halfway before I gave up. I hate tips, a lot. It's as if they purposely made them impossible to stealth.

I've thought about this, but I'm a PvPer, and with every 7 billion I make I create a new PvP toon that needs T4 everything. This could be an option for others, but not me.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I'm pretty sure I know which bidder you are Plasma, and you're a lot more conservative than I am. I cut my profits by anywhere from 40%-50% to get around 3x as many a day.

I've mostly stopped it, but I was burning through 200 converters a day several times.

I somewhat mentioned it above, but the size of it grows really fast and I can't make 200 converters per day. That's what I mean when I say it's a pain. I'm getting a ton of purples and have no converters because I spent the 200 I collected yesterday, which was 2 hours of SSA1-1.


I suppose that's true, what I meant was the startup to run a huge operation is a lot. My startup was 8 billion, and that let me to create enough that was worthwhile. I never thought of doing it on a small scale, but that could work too.


The "Claim all" has gotten me a few times. Each time I just contact support, make room on my character to get the rest, and within 2 hours he'll automatically have it on him.




Lastly, running a daily billion-earning operation from just flipping takes much less work and doesn't run you as hard as converting purples. The limiting reactant is -always- converters, where as the only thing stopping me from flipping is my market space (nearly unlimited with enough characters), and it doesn't take as much work.

I'm all for marketeering, and it's some of the most fun I've had in the game, but converters and purples starts to seem like a real job.

I have roughly 40 purple recipes on my bidder right now, but I can't bring myself to run SSA1-1 for 2 hours straight (40 recipes at 2.2 on average is ~90 converters or 9 characters), then go through the work of crafting, emailing, converting, checking for old prices I've recorded etc etc.

Or I could put up lowball bids on popular things, craft and list.


My average time for SSA1-1 was around 7 minutes, once I learned to pack 20 reds for the big fights. With loadings and character switching + trading HAM/VAM merits, it would be 10 minutes for each one, which would be 10 characters. That's 1h40m to get the necessary converters.


That's all I meant by what I said.

This niche is a huge pain.

The startup cash to make good returns + getting converters. Running endless tips to reinforce alightments + running that stupid little arc 4-5 times a day.

It's not nearly as simple as stated above. Works in the short-term, but making it longterm is a pain.

You aren't working that niche, it works you.



I've moved over to just flipping, less profit, but much less work.

That would be my confusion then.

I usually play Blasters/Scrappers, and when people say 400% damage cap for those ATs, I knew the base amount was skipped over.

This is the first time I've heard of people including the base amount in the damage bonus. When I think of 100% damage in a power, I think 2x, not base.

That 300% cap for Tankers is pretty pitful, especially considering they can get a perma +160% from their most popular secondary. Then it's true they can almost reach their damage cap with just 2x rage and slotting.

That was my mistake, thanks for the correction.

I don't think any other alpha would benefit me as much.

I'm sure you know this, because it was discussed earlier in the thread, but the SS/Fire chain even at recharge cap isn't without gaps. That means, the more recharge, the longer at the cap, or the longer -near- the cap, the more time you can shave off the chain and close the gaps.

We all know how much even 1 or 2 seconds can mean when it comes to DPS, and AoE DPS isn't any different.

I'm looking at you Ball Lightning.

I wouldn't ever slot my main powers baddly in order to get more recharge, but seeing as I've done both I don't see a problem.

I've thought about getting defense bonuses, but the truth is that nothing lives long enough to be a threat, and killing really quickly gives purples. Even the small ones give +12.5% defense, which adds up quickly. Defense is gained really easily from inspirations rather than bonuses.



Being at the recharge cap the majority of the time will increase my farm time much more than only being close with defense.

Err, that's not my understanding of +dmg. You've added an extra +100% from base that doesn't exist.

The cap is 400%.

95% from slotting
160% from 2x rage
=255% out of 400%

You would need an extra +145% bonus to reach the cap. That's over 4 Empathy Defenders using Fortitude on you to get to the cap. I wouldn't call that close, considering it would take 6 reds to get there, or 3 large reds.

Even if the cap for damage was 400% -including- the 100% base, that would mean that when the difference between 300% and 400% damage bonus would be the same for an unslotted attack. That just isn't true.

At 399% damage bonus brawl will do slightly less damage than 400% damage bonus. The damage enhancement is subtracted from the damage bonus but not the base. If the base were included, they would have everything labelled differently. The cap would be 500% for powers.

The problem you may be having is that the damage is a mutiplier on the base amount and you've added that to the damage bonus. As with accuracy, it's always (1+bonus), but make no mistake that the bonus cap is 400% and it does not include the 100%.

If I build a toon with teaming in mind, he will be more beneficial to the team than if I build one for solo.

You seem to suggest that if the buff does nothing for you, there is no point. Would you give up an auto power that put everyone else except you at the damage cap? I sure wouldn't, because I understand that unless I'm specifically making the character to solo (We know 2 other ATs better at that), that it will benefit the team.

To simplify it, if I am on a team and it benefits my team, it is benefiting me. It's an indirect benefit, but you cannot say that a benefit to your team somehow doesn't benefit you. As long as you're on the team, your teammates level of power will affect you in some way.


I'm not a fan of emp defenders just sitting there with auto heal on the same way I'm not a fan of tanks who only aggro control. If they can contribute, even the smallest bit inbetween (Leadership), they are helping a lot.

I'm sure that taking 2 leadership toggles won't hinder a tanker build and make it unable to aggro control. If it were somehow a choice between doing a tanker's job and choosing leadership, I would agree with you, but that's not the situation I see here.

Leadership would benefit the team while not gimping the build, so that's a vote from me.

I wouldn't suggest taking unstoppable on an invul tank, for the sole reason that it wouldn't benefit anyone. Vengeance, on the other hand, has an AoE +Dmg buff. You can't much more useful than that.



I don't know how to respond to someone stating that an 8 person AoE +Dmg buff isn't useful, but I suppose I'll explain it.

Veangeance is an -AoE- buff, meaning it benefits the team. The +tohit, while useless to you, is not useless to everyone else. The +dmg is extremely useful, as any AoE +dmg power is. The +Defense will defend your squishies making you do your job better. A tanker can only hold so much aggro, so giving everyone high levels of defense means you could defend even more.

Not to mention, I'm sure every Invul tank would love the +defense from Vengeance. Invul tankers don't have 95 DDR, meaning they can lose a good chunk of their defense against certain enemines -and- most Invul tanks don't have the Incarnate softcap to all.

Not to mention:

"+25% All Defense Types, All Defense Positions"

Includes Psi, and that's the base amount unslotted.

I don't remember Vengeance having a requirement that you can't do anything until someone dies.

If you're a smart tank, you'll watch people's buff bars and see incoming attacks. When you see the blaster have 2 little NPC powers beside his name, you'll know someone is in trouble and who to taunt.

A smart tank watches the buff bar of their teammates regardless, meaning they'll see when a teammate dies.

I'm not very good at multitasking, but clicking a name in my team window and pressing F10 takes me around 2 seconds. Those 2 seconds to give the team better survivability, killing speed and mez protection are damn well spent.

Correct, meaning players will die.
If a tank wants to -up- the entire teams performance by taking advantage of that, I would suggest it over building your toon to never expect failure.

If your job is to keep everyone alive, and you can take 1 power to make a failure into a success, that's called 'insurance'. It's a well-rounded tank.

You either keep everyone alive = win
Someone dies + Veng = win



Also, that hat looks silly on you.

While I agree with Hyperstrike that assault isn't worth the end for your own damage, I don't know if he was joking with this line or not. Rage will not keep you near your damage cap.

I'd disagree here. If you can handle it, use it. You're a tank, so it's assumed you'll be teaming, and any +dmg for the team is good.

Right again, although not always true for the team. +Tohit can help the team (and blasters hit the magic 22% with the new snipe changes), so although you won't need it personally, it is an AoE buff, so there's that to consider.


Again, not sure if he's joking.

Taking Veng wouldn't be sobbing over a corpse, instead it would be -Vengeance-. If I kill Lois Lane, you can bet Superman is going to fight me a bit harder than just a regular fight. This not only fits conceptual, but also once again benefits the team.

At least on itrials, you won't -ever- have to wait for someone to commit suicide. There are plenty of dead bodies from the 50+0's who are still trying to get their alpha slot. During big fights, you'll find a body drop about once a minute.

I, on regular occasion, waste vengeance because someone died before my current buff wore off.



I like a tank with leadership. The same way I like everyone having leadership.

I don't think I have a single toon without Tactics.

^ Pretty much this, he's right.

The build I posted right before yours (right above Otelo's) would preform on a much faster level. It's been said in this thread before, but if someone wanted -the- most efficient build for farming, it would have to be pure recharge. The 50% global recharge difference changes a lot.

I never thought Fire Defense was worth it. I'll pop 2 purples, kill much faster and earn more purples in that time, while earning more reds to farm even faster. It's an exponential growth that makes recharge awesome.

The faster I can kill, the more damage I can do, the more survivability I get. (Only in a farm map of course, not regular play).

Here's my SS/Fire farmer build. It's extremely specific for fire farms in AE, with 222.5% rech.

It pretty much melts through any fire farm, and I put it up to +4 x8 just because I hate how quickly the mobs die at +2.

I took Reactive t4 75% fire DoT 25% -res
Ion to hit 40 targets
Spiritual to help recharge even more
Ageless +rech +recovery to solve end problems and to have even more recharge


It's at the recharge cap for slotted powers a lot, inbetween Ageless and the +rech proc that keeps firing. The end was pretty bad before Ageless, and now it's easy. I use 1-2 purples per mob, but have binds to combine everything else into reds. It kills fast enough that it always has reds on it.