Scorpious_EU

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I completely disagree that the AE should be removed from the starter zones. It's actually quite difficult tog et the AE building in higher level zones if you want to play completely player-created content to play your character or if you just want to start off with a few lowbie arcs to skip the dribble at the first ten levels. Getting the Mercy AE was a challenge that got me killed. I do understand your reasoning for wanting to do this, but it does hurt those low-level characters who actually want to use the AE for playing player-created STORIES instead of random exploits and farms.

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And why should skipping the early content which helps you learn the game be 'easy' (i dont believe its hard at all)? If its hard for a player, its likely because you dont know the ways to make it easier, which would suggest you should indeed do the content.

I dont want you to think im being rude here, but getting to Mercy is very, very easy and there are multiple ways of doing it.

I miss...

Old Hollows
Pre-nerf Invuln scrappers
9 Fire Imps following me around
Old Hami raids bringing the server down!
Logging in to see Atlas Park 2
Hanging around monster island cheering on people soloing monsters
Looking forward to every issue
Getting kicked from a team because 'we need a healer, not those bubble things'... Ok, maybe not that one!

The game used to be alot more friendly. What you now have is a bunch of vets who are unhappy with the current situation and are looking to vent it - you just gave them an excuse.

I get annoyed by alot of atlas spam, which is why those people get put on ignore. End of story. I then go about my business.

What i have noticed however is that the newbies these days seem less inclined to actually listen to good, vet advice. *turns on grumpy old man voice* Back in my day, when you were new and obviously didnt know alot about your toon and vets offered you help with making it more powerful, you noted it, went away and looked into it since you didnt want to suck. I watched with equal amazement and a twisted sense of 'car crash' as the worst fire tank ive ever seen dished abuse to all who attempted to help them fix their toon which couldnt tank S/L damage mobs which any of my scrappers would tank for brunch. Yeah, brunch, not even breakfast :P

Anyway, dont worry about the Atlas thing, people are just grumpy. As long as you arent taking the P, dont worry about it. People are idiots in real life and on the net. They just get more brave on the net because you cant see them...

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...ended up naked in jumping jacks

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That is enough to send you to hell...

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Rather being a 'thor' style? Sadly tankers have no electric armor (brute does), but u can have a nice slapping hammer!



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War Mace (customised to battle hammer) + Willpower + Mu mastery Brute

But yeah, Heroside you cant really do this. I agree with others though, play what you feel is fun - its important to have fun as your first toon.

Some sets are geared towards playstyles though. Like to not get get? Ice is for you. Like to take a beating and for it to not hurt? Invuln. Like to be durable? Willpower. The others i would describe as hybrids with tricks to make up for thie rlack of specialisation (i'll leave stone out since its an anomaly imho).

Hope this helps

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The simple solution is to not place AE buildings in any of the lowbie zones. AE should not be the first thing a new player encounters, they need to be introduced to the existing content - since that is more likely to help them form a strong affinity with the game and their character.

For those of us who have played the lower lvls numerous times, it wont be a major hit, since we will know exactly where to go if we want to level via AE and not standard. The lowest level zone i would place AE is the mid-teens zones (so Steel ect), id be tempted to even say AE should be post-20 content (Talos+).

We need to bring back the days when new players brushed shoulders with vets and learned from them. Getting a PL and having a level 50 within a week and not knowing 99% of the game is not good, regardless what people may claim.

We really need to think about the longterm affect this has on new players, since that is the problem area, not with experienced players. If a vet wants to PL, they will. New players should at least have the chance to experience the game before all this other nonsense otherwise they wont be here for a fraction of the time most of us have been.

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now see i argee 100% with this.

[/ QUOTE ]but this won't slove the promblem though... it not that hard to find out where the building will be if you get invited to a team or asking around for it

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Agreed, but at least they would have to go looking for a PL, which is fine. If somebody wants to PL you cant stop them and to a certain extent, you shouldn't have the right to. What we should however avoid is having new players experience detrimentally affected by having PL and farming thrown in their face when they might otherwise enjoy the game normally.

Removing AE from lowbie zones would do this and perhaps people would do normal things until SO level at which point they will have the experience to make an informed choice about their character and how to further progress it.

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The simple solution is to not place AE buildings in any of the lowbie zones. AE should not be the first thing a new player encounters, they need to be introduced to the existing content - since that is more likely to help them form a strong affinity with the game and their character.

For those of us who have played the lower lvls numerous times, it wont be a major hit, since we will know exactly where to go if we want to level via AE and not standard. The lowest level zone i would place AE is the mid-teens zones (so Steel ect), id be tempted to even say AE should be post-20 content (Talos+).

We need to bring back the days when new players brushed shoulders with vets and learned from them. Getting a PL and having a level 50 within a week and not knowing 99% of the game is not good, regardless what people may claim.

We really need to think about the longterm affect this has on new players, since that is the problem area, not with experienced players. If a vet wants to PL, they will. New players should at least have the chance to experience the game before all this other nonsense otherwise they wont be here for a fraction of the time most of us have been.

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Interesting post

From my view on several 'lf farm' lvl1 people that i monitored, only 1 is now beyond lvl35. The others got 'stuck' pre 30's, great moment in the lvling to a nice ongoing build (travel, stamina, shields, powers, SO's).

Arent people blowing a few things up too big? Yes a numberous of people did get to high lvl relatively fast, but the bigload i've seen jumping around only managed to get a bunch of lvls. These lvls are nothing more then a sewer, KR newspapers and a few SK-runs.

But, i do note again, i play on the US mostly, with quite alot more players and way more diversity of lvling. The few times i went on EU was to get my badges

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No i dont think its being blown up too much at all, i have seen a very large number of people go from nothing to post-35 and yes, alot to 50. Now as i said, this is only a problem when its a player who is inexperienced. When a lvl 47 tank tells me that they dont have mez protection and that is why they are being thrown around by mobs (and i know hes wrong because they could have picked active defense) or the Empath has no idea what im talking about when i ask for clear mind because im being mezzd, or the controller has no idea how to lockdown mobs using cages/flashfire despite having both and being well into their 40s - these are all symptomatic of being elevated to a level before your experience in-game is ready to handle it.

The simple solution is to not place AE buildings in any of the lowbie zones. AE should not be the first thing a new player encounters, they need to be introduced to the existing content - since that is more likely to help them form a strong affinity with the game and their character.

For those of us who have played the lower lvls numerous times, it wont be a major hit, since we will know exactly where to go if we want to level via AE and not standard. The lowest level zone i would place AE is the mid-teens zones (so Steel ect), id be tempted to even say AE should be post-20 content (Talos+).

We need to bring back the days when new players brushed shoulders with vets and learned from them. Getting a PL and having a level 50 within a week and not knowing 99% of the game is not good, regardless what people may claim.

We really need to think about the longterm affect this has on new players, since that is the problem area, not with experienced players. If a vet wants to PL, they will. New players should at least have the chance to experience the game before all this other nonsense otherwise they wont be here for a fraction of the time most of us have been.

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Ninjitsu - Hide ain't in this list as far as i see. So does it mean it ain't a bug as people claimed?

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I dont think its a bug since its the only unique stalker set. That and the fact that blaster sets also get defiance, it seems intended to me.

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That people dont play to your 'expectations' (heeeey thats the keyword again), aint really their problem. I love a challenge, i love my blaster on a team where a tank doesnt use taunt.

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There's a difference between knowing how to doing it and somehow failing to do so.
And not knowing how to at all..

Fury

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Agreed. I also think we as veteran players need to take some responsibility for helping these new players, both to become better and to actually find the content in the game which we ourselves found fun.

If you team with a player who you feel has been prematurely PLd and 'doesnt know how to play', why not help them if you can? I must admit i have got very frustrated at times with players who dont meet my expectations, but i will always go out of my way to help those who want or ask for it. If you see a tank incapable of taking aggro or missing an essential skill, speak up - especially if its a set you know well yourself. I've found most new players actually want to be good at the game, they just think that 24/7 farming is the way to do it because they dont know any better...

If i was paying to go anywhere, it would be a US server. More players, less lag despite the distance.

I found this last night on US forums and i havent seen peopel speaking about it this side (or many over there for that matter). I thought id post it here since it could have a pretty big impact on alot of people's arcs.

Here is a list I am starting of the changes I have found with the way AE critter powers are being given on different difficulties after the 4/27 patch. This is also a discussion on the issues these changes cause.

The entire thing about being unable to give Minions Mezz resist anymore is another issue in itself. Personally I hope they give us back the option to give it to them on the Extreme settings. Taking away options does not make the system more flexible, no matter what anyone wants to claim.

Energy Aura:
* Cannot give Minions Power Shield at all but can give them Energy Drain on Extreme.
* Cannot give LTs or Bosses Entropy Shield without going to Extreme. Since Energy Drain is given on Hard, this poses a big problem. (Suggestions: Move Entropy Shield to Hard and Energy Drain to Extreme, or remove Energy Drain from the set entirely.)

Archery:
* Minions and LTs can no longer get Blazing Arrow, but get Rain of Arrows on Extreme.
* LTs still get Aim on Hard. (Suggestions: Move Aim to Extreme.)

Trick Arrow:
* Glue Arrow was moved to Extreme.
* Flash Arrow was moved to Hard.

Claws:
* Minions cannot get Follow Up at all anymore.
* Minions get Shockwave instead of Slash when set to Hard. Not sure why they needed this when they already get Focus on Standard.
* Minions get Spin on Extreme.

Dual Blades:
* Minions and LTs cannot get Sweeping Strike at all now, but they get 1,000 Cuts on Extreme.
* Minions get Typhoons Edge on Hard.
* Minions no longer get Blinding Feint.

Energy Assault:
* Snipe moved to Extreme.
* Setting Minions to Hard gives them Whirling Hands and Power Push.
* LTs and Bosses get Power Burst on Standard. This is a rather powerful attack to be giving a LT on Standard.

Electrical Melee:
* Cannot give LTs Thunderstrike at all. Instead they now get Lightning Rod on Extreme. (Suggestions: Change it back to Thunderstrike, Lightning Rod on a LT?)
* LTs get Build Up on Hard instead of Extreme now. (Suggestions: Move Build Up to Extreme.)
* LTs get Chain Induction on Standard instead of Extreme now.
* LTs get Thunder Clap on Hard now, before they didn't get it at all. (Please reconsider this.)

Dark Armor:
* Minions cannot get Obsidian Shield or Murky Cloud at all now.
* Minions get Dark Regeneration on Hard. (Why does a Minion need such a powerful heal instead of resistance?)
* Minions get Cloak of Darkness on Hard.
* Cannot give LTs Obsidian Shield without giving them Dark Regeneration, Cloak of Darkness, Death Shroud, and Oppressive Gloom. (At this point it might as well just be a Boss.)

War Mace:
* LTs and Bosses get Build Up on Hard now instead of Extreme. (Suggestions: Move Build Up back to Extreme.)

Fire Blast:
* Minions get Rain of Fire on Hard.
* Only Bosses get Blaze now.

Gravity Control:
* LTs and Bosses now get Propel on Standard rather than Hard.

Dark Miasma:
* Tar Patch is an Extreme only power for Minions, LTs, and Bosses.
* Minions, LTs, and Bosses get Darkest Night on Standard.
* Minions, LTs, and Bosses get Twilight Grasp and Shadow Fall on Hard.
* LTs and Bosses get Petrifying Gaze on Standard now, this used to be an Extreme power.

Radiation Blast:
* Proton Volley is now Extreme only for both LTs and Bosses.
* A LT set to Extreme will now get Atomic Blast.

This is only what I've come across so far. Some of this looks ok, but a lot of things make me go "Huh?"

Original post can be found here:

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...9#Post13402725

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players should have to complete a small taskforce to progress past a certain level/gain access to certain skills.

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How would this work tho?

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I think she had something like the LOTRO class quests, which i remember as being pretty interesting and not hard. Now, i will say that there is more diversity in what a class can and cant do in this game vis-a-vis LOTRO, but theoretically, i fully understand where the suggestion is coming from and i don't think its a bad idea if a method of implementation can be found which doesn't make it impossible for X or Y build.

Im just personally big on trying to get players to interact with as much of the content as possible as that generally tends to result in a greater enjoyment of the game for players and longer subscriptions. If you have already experienced most of the game, you have the right to chose what you want to skip - i do this personally. Experienced players are not my reason for the points i raise however, this is an issue regarding new players who are not seeing the vast majority of the content and are thus more likely to plow through the game, get bored and leave.

What we should be doing is trying to introduce them to as much of the game as possible so they can enjoy it as much as we have, surely?...

I agree BL, however i wonder if they are now into the habit of attempting to push new toys in order to allow players to forget about the broken content.

The sad thing is, if they fixed everything that is currently in-game and revamped the stuff which most players see as an irrelevance (think shards, boomtown, DA) then the game has more than enough content to compete in the current and future market.

I hope they do some major overhauls for i15, otherwise they are going to be in big trouble because far too many 3 year+ players are beginning to lose hope, and its those players, not the 'im bored of WoW so i'll play this until my next fix comes along' who they should be aiming to retain as a priority.

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If you level from 1-50 in MA, as many are now doing, you will invariably avoid many enemy types, situations and circumstances which will make you a better player and have a have a greater experience of the game. 1-50 will be faster, but more dull and less enriching in terms of both 'fun' and teaching one how to play their character.


[/ QUOTE ]If you level 1-50 doing actual story missions in the MA, you're probably going to get a more varied experience than you'd get by playing the game Pre-I14, and certainly far more varied than you'd get by just doing PB/Paper missions.

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In theory, i agree. I dont however see this happening, i see a large majority of MA teams running the same stuff over and over and alot of the new lvl 40+ players ive met display this since they have not encountered situations which would be impossible to not have happened unless they were only grinding melee-only, no mez, 3-4 skill max mobs from lvl 1 until that point. If people were doing 'normal' missions, you're right though.

My girlfriend made a valid point after she became frustrated with her 'silly noob tanker' (direct quote)- players should have to complete a small taskforce to progress past a certain level/gain access to certain skills. Which must be completed solo. Other games use class quests in this way. It would be a good way of forcing people to go outside of the comfort zone this game seems to be bringing in more and more - one which many longterm players ive spoken to dont like.

Id love further proliferation, but i do wonder about some balance issues and if certain sets would have to be nerfed in order for them to not become overpowered when we consider AT modifiers and inherents?

Super Strength Scrappers?
Spines Brutes?
Thermal MasterMinds?

With that out the way, in an ideal world, id like full proliferation between sets which are derivative, with the exception of 1 unique primary and secondary between same 'faction' and also on hero/villain relation. To explain:

If tanks have defense set A,B,C,D,E,F,G & H then Brutes will have A,B,C,D,E,F,G & I. Scrappers however could have H, allowing A,B,C,D,E,F,H & J - maintaining 1 unique between both hero/villain and same alliance.

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Well positron did say you would be able to level from 1 to 50 using the architect alone



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This is my only problem with it. I dont think you should be able to level from 1-50 using 1 very specific selection of the games much wider content - its the same reason i didnt like the possibility of paper/radio missions meaning you could ignore 90% of the games content.

If you level from 1-50 in MA, as many are now doing, you will invariably avoid many enemy types, situations and circumstances which will make you a better player and have a have a greater experience of the game. 1-50 will be faster, but more dull and less enriching in terms of both 'fun' and teaching one how to play their character.

That is simply not good for the game.

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So what is exactly the problem with MA farming and PL?

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PLd players who have no idea how to play the game, resulting in a need to avoid PuGs, reducing the amount of spontaneous teaming on the server - which a EU server really cant afford.

Edit: If there is one thing that i miss from when i started the game it was that post-35 took a long time. You had no mission difficulty slider, no paper missions and frankly not enough missions to level to 50 if you only did your own. At the time i thought it was horrible, but what it did was increase teaming and ensure that people knew their toon inside out by 50.

This is my only problem with PL. I dont care what other players do until it affects me. Since i like to team and be social, at times i will be relying on another player to not suck.

Id like in on this as either Fire/FF troller, Spines/DA scrapper or Fire/MM blaster. Pick any of those, i dont mind as im trying to get badges on all 3.

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I'm not sure if it's a bug or not, considering the very friendly "Team with your buddies!" attitude. Although on another note, has anyone else had the invite bug?


EDIT: Found out why it happens, seems that because of the TF rules, what with the "if you log out, you're still in the team" business, if you had 8 members, one logs out, and you invite another 8th, you've *technically* got 9 team members, and the mission bugs for entry, for a good deal of the team.

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Yes, thats right. You have to get the person to actually quit the TF, then another person can be invited and enter. Its surprising how many people dont know this yet - spread the word. If you log out, nobody else can enter. Quit the team!

Id just like to know if its working as intended or not: I cant see how certain features such as locking mobs to X level while auto-SK'in everyone to Y is intended by the inculsion of 1 critter - which you can also place as a rescue which frees on entry, i might add, is intended. That has gotta be a loop in the system.

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One question: Why don't you just change it from "Auto-SK" to "This level range ONLY" ? That way the team is still forced to have 50% people in SK range which is difficult if you're a lonesome farmer and running a 1-54 map.

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That would fix alot of the PL problems with MA actually. Has there been any word from devs about the auto-SK feature? i mean is it a bug or what?

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Ok yes Energy Aura does seem broken, though if you pick Dark Melee it would do just as good as my Dark/Shield brute.

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Sorry to be picky, but as somebody with a shield brute i find that hard to believe. Shield Charge changes everything and i dont think energy can ever compensate for being able to pop +2s for 450 AOE damage without any fury...

Also, your DM/Shield should be doing insane amounts of damage given the +dmg aura and soul drain - how is energy gonna keep up with that?

Na, i think energy is definitely the gimp. Might roll one when servers go back up :P

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Now take Energy Aura. THAT, as numerous people have said, is broken. Its still vaguely playable, but the ammount of adaption and plugging required tilts it too far.



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Yeah, i have yet to hear a good report of Energy, i wonder why it remains so broken. Still, im very tempted to roll one as it would be like playing the game on 'Hard Mode' and could actually be alot of fun

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when I see a granite tank

[/ QUOTE ]Fixed that for you.

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You implying all granite tanks are from PL/farming?

[/ QUOTE ]No, I'm implying they're useless compared to other tanks in the majority of the game.

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That's nice dear but it's not really what the person who brought it up was talking about. They were saying that Farming/PL affects them whenever they come across a PLed character with no idea how to play (like the level 30-something Grav/TA I came across before who admitted he'd been PLed and hadn't taken any of his Trick Arrows powers other than Net Arrow "because they don't do any damage").

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Yeah, thats exactly what i meant when i raised the issue. I have a rather laissez faire attitude to PL and farming, but when i team at high levels i expect everyone to pull their weight and know their role in the team. It used to be that way, i still expect it.

Its for that reason i personally wouldnt ever PL certain ATs, because i want to organically learn the limits so i am not [censored] when i get to end-game. When PL affects teaming, it becomes bad imho

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when I see a granite tank

[/ QUOTE ]Fixed that for you.

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You implying all granite tanks are from PL/farming?

[/ QUOTE ]No, I'm implying they're useless compared to other tanks in the majority of the game.

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Oh my, what have i started...

Stones pre-granite can be good, they just have to be played well, like all tanks. I personally couldnt play one because i dont like the 'SB plz!' factor or being forced to take TP. I went through that as invuln when it was unyeilding. No thanks...

Edit: Granite does make most other tanks look silly however. I think only Ice and well slotted WP stands up to it at end-game.