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Quote:I agree, Khan is pretty bland, especially after the recent TFs they've done (STF, LGTF, ITF). The villain version (Barracuda), however, is a lot more interesting (with an awesome cutscene), but more difficult as well.Now, I have to admit - Khan was fairly uninteresting as far as TFs go. The first mission was interesting, following the trail of Arachnos and then warping into the 5th Column caves. The fight with Reichsman was a little interesting with him summoning all those AVs, but fighting him specifically was incredibly boring. All the middle missions were extremely average. Nothing exciting at all.
I dunno. I don't know how often I'll run this one. Yeah, it was short, but Hess runs roughly the same time and is far more dynamic. -
If memory serves, Nosferatu has:
- Reconstruction (click heal)
- Dull Pain (click heal, +maxhp)
- Siphon Life or Life Drain (single target dmg/heal)
I think he has Fast Healing (+regen passive), too.
That's just for survivability, that's not mentioning his AoEs (Chill of the Night, Dark Consumption, Tenebrous Tentacles) that will chew up your pets in short order. He is one extremely nasty EB/AV. -
Some math:
Defender Nightfall
Code:Ranged Damage Mod10 * 0.11 Negative damage over 2.80 seconds PvE only
Code:Scr -27.805
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I bet I can guess exactly what's going on. You know how different ATs have different damage mods? Well, each AT has two, melee and ranged. For a Scrapper, their melee mod is 1.125 and their ranged is 0.5 (not a typo).
Tenebrous Tentacles is using the melee mod (presumably to make sure it deals more than garbage damage) while Night Fall is currently using the ranged mod (presumably because it was copied from a ranged AT where it would use the ranged mod).
I'd bug it since all other APP attacks use the melee mod.
[edit: That'd bring NF's total damage up to ~68.85.] -
Quote:The way taunt works is the same for all powers. Durations don't work differently in an aura than they do in powers. That said, when you see weird numbers in game (like 400% taunt) that's a bug with how Real Numbers is displaying them - that's the taunt's MAG (which is largely irrelevant except in some extreme corner cases). If you want to see the info, the best place to go would be City of Data (as New Dawn linked more directly to below).I was playing my tank recently and was a little puzzled about the technical aspects of taunt. When I hover over powers or call up their info, they basically say that this power gives a certain strength taunt for a certain duration. But when I looked at Mud Pots, it only said that a taunt is applied, and no duration was specified. Since I want to finely tune her taunting capabilities, I'd like to understand this more.
Are taunts applied through taunt/damage auras different than what's applied through the power itself or through other attacks?
Quote:I can say that I have never needed to know the taunt duration of mudpots from a website.
http://coh.redtomax.com/data/powers/...Armor.Mud_Pots
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Taunt
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=114955&highlight=*taunt*
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Threat
[edit: I say that with no disrespect meant to Circeus, btw.] -
Quote:There is a huge difference between tanking for a group with a WP Scrapper than trying to out threat a Shield / Invuln Scrapper. Scrappers (and Tankers/Brutes) have higher innate threat mods than the squishier ATs, (3 for Scrappers, 4 for Brutes/Tanks), so mobs are more likely to stick to them anyways. Add in a weak taunt aura and Scrappers can pseudo tank. If a Tanker doesn't Taunt, Invuln/Shield Scrappers will out threat them given enough time. I did it all the time on my Invuln Scrapper vs Invuln and Stone Tanks (this was before we knew how taunt worked, mind you.)I think getting into groups first and laying down the highest end costing secondary powers before other people start helps a ton, even my WP scrapper often tanks and she does damage for a bit before the team arrives, damage making me the threat. People should have to adapt away from putting themselves at risk though if they want to live.
Personally, I find holding aggro off other taunt capable characters to be fun - it's part of the challenge of tanking. Besides that, it makes me a better Tank in knowing how to push the character to the limit. (I do feel bad for Brutes I team with sometimes, though. :P) -
I haven't seen anyone touch on it, so I'll try to explain why your WP Tank is having such a hard time keeping aggro against a Shield Scrapper:
- Taunts are not binary on/off switches, they're gigantic threat multipliers on the magnitude of 1000*duration. So a 5 second taunt effect multiplies threat by 5000. This threat comes from damage, debuffs, AI preferences, etc. At any rate, this means the biggest factor of taunts is their duration, as it increases that multiplier.
Note: Taunt effects deliver threat of their own (based off their duration) when they land, too. So a taunt aura is passively pumping out threat even if you don't attack. - RttC's taunt duration is 1.25s, Invuln and AAO are both 16.875s. Both of these completely overwhelm RttC's minor taunt effect, even when 95% taunt slotted. There are two things to keep in mind. First, AAO has a damage debuff in it, making its passive taunting more effective than Invuln's. Second, Scrappers deal more damage than tanks (esp coupled with AAO's +dmg buff), so when coupled with an incredibly strong aura like AAO, they will out threat non-Taunting (the power) Tankers.
- Once somebody is holding aggro, it takes twice as much threat to force targets to switch targets.
Put all three of those things together, and Shield Scrappers (Invuln, too) are a complete pain in the butt to hold aggro off of. I'd say it's one of the more difficult things to do while tanking. Having said that, it's not impossible by any means. Here are some things I do to pull it off:
- Try to get into the mobs first. The bigger the headstart you get, the better. Remember how I said that it takes double threat to steal aggro? By getting in there sooner, you can build up your threat making it harder for the Scrapper to take it from you in the first place. The key is being able to guage when the group is fine without you and to move to the next spawn while they clean up.
Start small, when there are only a few mobs left, then slowly ramp it up while you get a feel for it. This is a skill that will take time to develop, but you'll eventually get the hang of it.
- It is absolutely essential to take, and slot, Taunt. Its base duration is 41s (for most sets, DM and DB are inexplicably only 30.75s), when slotted that's about 80s. That multiplies your threat by 80,000, which is enough to swamp out AAO. Don't skimp on recharge, though! You'll want to use it often.
- Now you you're arriving at spawns earlier than anyone else and you have Taunt well slotted, it's time to build as much threat as possible. You'll want to priorities your abilities such that you generate the most threat in the least amount of time. So, your priorities are as follows:
- Taunt - This applies threat and sets up the multiplier. With any luck you'll be able to use it twice before your group catches up with you. After that, start rotating it between mobs to try to keep it applied and refreshed on all mobs. If the Scrapper has aggro and you need to take it back, taunt those mobs repeatedly.
- AoEs - This will apply more threat to more targets than your other powers. (As Stone Melee, they're also nice crowd control, anyways.)
- Single target attacks - Either rotate these between targets or focus on a single target that you want to guarantee that you hold aggro on. If the Scrapper has taken some aggro from you, hit those targets.
That's not all inclusive, you'll have to improvise and figure out when / when not to worry about aggro the Scrapper has. Then you'll have to prioritize targets if you get aggro capped, etc. These are just the basic mechanics / methods that you'll build off of.
Again, it's not an easy feat, you have to really be on the ball to pull it off, but it's very rewarding when you do. If you're on a team with another Tank / Brute and you need to hold aggro, follow the same basic steps. If you want to assert aggro dominence, then you absolutely can - RttC's weak taunt be damned!
Note: My WP is Fire Melee which has more AoE potential than Stone does, so you'd have to work even harder to pull it off. I have no doubt that you can, though! Good luck! - Taunts are not binary on/off switches, they're gigantic threat multipliers on the magnitude of 1000*duration. So a 5 second taunt effect multiplies threat by 5000. This threat comes from damage, debuffs, AI preferences, etc. At any rate, this means the biggest factor of taunts is their duration, as it increases that multiplier.
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Quote:The difference between 37.5% and 50% base res is very large. That means slotted a Brute has 58.5% and a Tanker has 78%. That translates to the Brute taking 88.6% more damage. Add in Stone Skin and the Brute has 70.2% s/l, the Tank can hit 90%. That translates to about 3x as much damage. (Yes, the Brute can add Tough and hit 87.75% res.)So I was looking at the Granite Brute and saw that the Granite Armor levels were not much different, 37.5% to 50%. Add in Stone Skin and Tough/Weave (for the brute) it may not be that bad. I know this is just resistances, but I as just wondering from a % standpoint how it would look. I also noticed that some tankers do not have the kind of resistances that a stone brute would have (if I am reading the info stuff correctly in the game).
That is only part of the story, as it doesn't even count the lower def, lower base hp (for the regen aspect of Rooted) or the smaller +maxhp/heal of EE, either.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Granite Brutes are squishy, but they aren't Granite Tanks. The gap gets closer and closer the more IOs you invest in them, however. -
The Performance Shifter proc has a 20% chance for +10 end every 10s. That works out to roughly 0.2 eps. If you lose less than 0.2 eps by swapping a slot out, then the PS proc will do better (on average).
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Quote:The +regen component of the Numina and Regen Tissue uniques are also enhanceable. (I presume it's a bug, but it's lasted since I9...) You'll get the biggest bang for your buck if you slot those two in the power with the highest heal enhancement. In other words, if you have 95% heal in Health and 33% in Physical Perfection, place the two uniques in Health. In fact, the two uniques combined offer more +regen than PP does, so you'd be better off even 5 slotting Health and 1 slotting PP than trying to split it 3 / 3.When I16 goes live I'll be respeccing my Invul/SS Tanker. I'll be grabbing Health and Physical Perfection and 3 slotting both. Now, I can't figure out how to properly set up Physical Perfection in mids, so I need the help of someone who knows these numbers off-hand. With the Numina Unique, Regenerative Tissue unique, two Heal Numinas, one End/Heal Numina, and a generic Level 50 Heal IO, where should I put the enhancements to get max regen?
I'm thinking the Numina Heal, Numina End/Heal, and Generic Heal in Health, and the two uniques and another Numina Heal in PP.
Or, if you'd like to math it up yourself:
Code:Health: (40 + X + Y) * (1 + EnhancementValue) = RegenFromHealth PP: (20 + X + Y) * (1 + EnhancementValue) = RegenFromPP X = 25 (If the Regen Tissue is slotted in the power.) Y = 20 (If the Numina is slotted in the power.)
Code:Health: 40 * 1.95 = 78% PP: (20 + 25 + 20) * 1.333 = 65 * 1.333 = 86.645% TOTAL: 164.645% Regen
Code:Health: (40 + 25 + 20) * 1.95 = 85 * 1.95 = 165.75% PP: 20 * 1.333 = 26.66% TOTAL: 192.41% Regen
Oh yeah, don't forget to add any set bonuses you may have acquired, such as Numina's +12% for two slots. -
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I'll [code] it up when appropriate, and not a moment sooner!
One bummer is the current [code] is flaky - in an I16 discussion thread, I found out that the tables align differently for different people. Gah! Annoying.
I haven't tried myself, but I've read you could.
Londer - The... "cat"... on the right of your sig frightens me in new ways. -
Quote:Numberz!I believe it's just an end discount for powers and not an end recovery, I think lasting for 30 seconds? Maybe 60. I don't remember the stats, but I think a 90 second recharge. The heal was doing 500+ HPs at 50 with just SOs slotted (didn't bother with IOs or sets).
Basic idea anyway since my memory is shot and looking through many closed-beta (I guess they are currently un-readeable by others?) patch notes, I still couldn't find the info.
End Discount (~60%) for 30s
Regen Boost (100%) for 30s
Self Heal (25%)
Recharge - 120s -
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Quote:Note: AoEs cost more endurance, but if you can hit enough targets (generally 3) they break even with single target attacks. Hit more than that and you're saving bucket loads of endurance.Fire in general isn't so bad on end, but AoE attacks are generally a lot more End heavy than the single target attacks. And Fire has two of them, Combustion and Fire Sword Circle. Plus a good bunch of toggles from Invulnerable.
So Fire has 3 things going for it in terms of end efficiency:- AoEs - More end efficient than st attacks if you fight enough mobs.
- Fire dots - These are free damage that adds up over time, especially against harder targets like bosses.
- Incinerate - This attack has a rech/end discount for being a pure dot. This makes it your most end efficient attack, not to mention the highest DPA in the set.
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Quote:Trust me when I say this - you will not have issues with survivability when running 45% s/l/e/ne def, ~3000hp, and ~700% regen on top of Siphon Life: example.What I'm trying to weigh up now is the extra 16-24% of regen versus more damage...or perhaps additional hp's is more desirable at this point. In any case I am shooting for survivability in as many situations as possible, mostly teamed and likely against AV's. I'm not interested in pvp and therefore I guess I'm prepared to sacrifice a little dmg for godlike self sufficiency. So the more +def I can get the better.
Quote:Don't ask me why I keep looking at pyre mastery though, I am a blaster/scrapper at heart and fireball...I want to work it in but I don't think it's really going to get me some of the numbers I have seen here.....fun versus efficiency is a whole other thread.
I hear ya, trust me. I've had a lot of builds with powers (not necessarily Fireball) that I've wanted, but I just didn't have enough picks to squeeze it in. It always boggles my mind when people say they always have power picks left over. Give them to me then, dangit! -
Quote:Ahh, I downloaded the HQ version, didn't even check YouTube. Thanks for the info.Thanks for the critiques! Yeah, I didn't put the music in the credits, but the music is credited in the YouTube video description area--I put "music is 'Necris Attacks' by Jesper Kyd." However, yeah, I can see if the video is being distributed in any other way other than streaming form with the credits in the description (i.e. allowing people to download the HQ version like I was), then it needs to be in the credits. Oversight on my part. :/
Quote:Also, thanks for the command advice! If I would have known how to do that when I was putting the video together, I would have definitely done it... Do you have a list of commands that are available for what I can do in a command console during a demo playback? For example, is there a way to enable the UI in a demo playback? When I recorded that TF, I was using /demorecord AND recording in Fraps (for the UI) simultaneously... If there were a way I could turn the UI on and off in a demo playback, I wouldn't have to do that, and it would take fewer resources up on my computer next time...Other than pausing and playing (ctrl + p) that's the only trick I know. I do know that it's impossible to show the UI during a demo playback - that's something that demo records just don't capture. The only way to get that is FRAPs (or other capture application) while playing.
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You did a nice job on that, Alien. I did notice and appreciate how you timed things. Many people don't bother (or don't have the tools) to do that. Kudos!
A couple critiques:
- Always, always list the music used in the credits. It not only gives the artist credit, but allows people who like the music found in the movie to find / buy it if they like it. (This is even more important for tracks without lyrics, since you can't just google a few sentences.)
- Next time you do a cinematic video like that, I'd suggest turning off the overhead numbers / names, they were distracting to the quality of the rest of the video. Just in case you don't know how, hit tilde while playing back a demo and type disable2d 1 and you'll be good to go. (Keep in mind the console will be hidden too, even though it's still open.) If you want to show the numbers/names again, use disable2d 0 instead.
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Low survivability is relative. Yeah, /Fire will have lower survivability than /Axe, but WP is robust and well rounded set. I never found survivability to be much of an issue, but I did do a lot of soloing outside of TFs. Almost any trouble I ran into I could take care of with a luck or two. Something else to consider - knockdowns won't help you against AVs anyways. (I don't have any experience with /Ace and I'm not trying to knock it - just that in certain situations the advantage goes away.)
Btw, one annoying thing about /Fire is the damage is a bit backloaded. Incinerate / GFS are your big single target attacks, but not available until 35/38. Fire Sword Circle, another staple, doesn't come into play until 28. (I personally used BoF to help while leveling up and with my first IO build - I did a lot of solo herding and leveraging AoEs. It's efficiency isn't too bad as a makeshift single target attack, either.)
WP/Fire is a great combination, though. I love mine. -
Quote:I have no doubt you didn't. I rarely felt in need myself with Fire Melee, and I didn't pickup Tough/Weave till the 40s. I'm saying average players - this includes people who may picking Flurry as an integral part of their attack chain. It means those who don't realize that purples are the best inspiration a WP Tank can have.Quote:To be fair, though, a stock WP w/o Fighting will have a lot rougher time than a powergamed one. I wouldn't be surprised if the average WP Tank on a PUG got slaughtered, despite how well they can perform. No, nothing in the game needs a Granite Tank, but I could see why an average player might think so. Let's face it, just because we can make builds here that can tank multiple AVs, unaided, doesn't mean everyone will. (Could be a time investment issue, or a concept vs power issue, etc.)
That comment was also specifically at the ITF. I did that TF once SKed to 50 before I picked up Tough and there was another Tanker on the team. If I took too much aggro, faceplanting was a very real possibility. (It was a while ago, I'd say I died 5-10 times, maybe?) I simply didn't have the res / maxhp / regen to keep myself alive under the pressure the Romans applied. I can only imagine how rough that would have been if I was the only Tank.
I'm not an idiot; I knew exactly what was happening, but I didn't have the tools to avoid it. From that one experience, it's easy for me to see someone who has a build like that who doesn't understand game mechanics to be in a lot of trouble. Yes, the team should be supporting the Tank, but that doesn't always happen (poor team makeup, support not paying attention, dead support, etc).
I'm not trying to defend the statement that a Granite is required for the ITF - that's crazy talk. All I'm saying is I can understand why people may feel that way, as wrong as it may be. Does that make more sense? -
Yeah, Werner nailed most of it. The one thing he didn't mention was the buff to Soul Drain. After the buff, it gives a sizable +dmg buff even with only 1 target as fuel. This makes dealing high base dps important, since that scales better than a proc heavy chain (the procs contribute a large portion of the damage, but aren't buffed by SD).