San_Diablo

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As I said before, choose between your VG or your own needs. Supers do this all the time in comics. The game mimics comics.

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And it also ignores comics. My character's personally firebombed over two hundred Longbow bases in PvP zones, yet sidekicks are more than a match for me - even when I've beaten them several times over, over my entire career - when in the comics they'd be teaming up to try to take out just me. This is because of mechanics concerns of the devs - mechanics concerns of ours should at the least be considered when making decisions about access to content, too.

Ewok, you might want to edit this post so that the second quote is properly attributed to me, not to the other poster.

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I would love progress bars for every badge. But it seems some badges don't get them. Maybe it's because it's difficult to 'measure' fame so why should you know when you hit the next level of it? Sounds plausible for an in game reason. I'd still like the bar, but if there is an in game reason for it, so be it.


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Then let the devs say so.

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Again, your choice to stay in SG mode, mine not to. I intend on donating infamy to the SG by exchange, to help support. I WILL be putting the effort in to earn the badge and support my SG/VG.


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Yes, but it's not remotely equal to the effort or reward that the VG would've gotten otherwise.

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In fact, plenty of people already have Midas Touch even now, so it's not unreasonable or unattainable.


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I'm not arguing that it's unattainable. I'm arguing that, given that SGs and VGs need more support, not less, the devs should consider options that don't lessen the support of an already weaker system.

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It really comes down to a simple opinion, which badge is best suited for a TV? INHO, it's an infamy badge as infamy = fame.

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And in mine, I don't hesitate to point out that there's another badge between Bling and Midas Touch, and that other badges also represent you being well known.

Going to skip around here, sorry. Initial post I'd written up was very choppy and repetitive...

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I personally don’t understand the first second up to …infamy’s involved. What ‘other badges?’


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Many badges aren't awarded to all members of a group when one achieves its requirements - exploration, history, many achievements. One or several of those, IMO, might be better.

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As for the degree of Mr. Big vs Midas Touch, I’m sorry that’s just a whine. You don’t want to work for Midas Touch so you want the requirements easier. Story-wise, the TV is looking for a sensational star, and they believe the lowest level to accept are those with the infamy level of Midas Touch. I understand your opinion that it’s too hard, but my opinion is, you are whining about it.


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Okay, I'm going to cut to the chase with another comment you made here...

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Please do not put words into my mouth. I don’t like grinds anymore than you or others (and never said I did), but I don’t look gift horses in the mouth.

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I'd previously made the mistake of believing that you liked the grinds, due to the following passage in your previous message:

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Nothing is earned for free, and personally, the harder and more challenging a badge is to earn, the happier I am. 1000 pillboxes? Holey Toledo Batman! but I will earn it, and feel really good when I do.


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This is where I made my mistake - I thought this was you stating how much you like the current system, as-is.

Your mistake, however, was in assuming that I just wanted this easier, just so I could get it. This is not the case - I feel that the system is already set up badly enough that almost any change that supports SG/VG mode over individual is for the better, and this is a change directly opposed to that. If this were an accolade requiring, say, all the strike forces completed, I'd have much less of a problem. Similarly, if the infamy badges had progress bars, I'd feel a lot better about it - that way, people can check their progress relative to their leveling, and make a much more informed choice in how they play. Similarly, if there were no badges and only one arc tied in here, I'd not care too much.

Since this is an accolade and a lot of content in a content-deprived game, however, this is going to detract from an already unhealthy set-up for SG/VG play, and it's going to put people on a grind given that they've got to spend an extended amount of time seeking out this badge, without knowing how close they are until they get it.

It's just bad design, IMO.

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First off, as to why the devs chose to make prestige and infamy mutually exclusive is simple. In all comics where a superhero or villian was a member of a group, that individual would still go off and do things on their own. I mean from purely a comic book standpoint, ever hero has their own comic 4 times a month (or so) and then they appear with the SG once or twice a month.


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Several heroes don't have solo comics. Very few have weekly ones anymore (I think Spider-Man might be the last one with DC moving over to biweekly schedules for Superman and Batman).

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Thus why you must choose to help your SG or fight on your own. If you help your SG, the SG as a whole gets the credit, and thus you get no real individual 'acknowledgement' of your actions, thus no influence.


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Admittedly, this example's going to be from a terrible comic, but The Death of Superman proves this wrong. Superman led the league at the time, was only one of several casualties, and got most of the credit.

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Now why should contacts require infamy badges? Individual contacts are looking at YOU, and how well YOU have done things. They really aren't interested in how your VG works together, as they want to hire YOU! A TV wants to do a report on YOU. Thus YOU need enough infamy, aka personal prestige, to warrant a TV show about YOU. Thus why it makes sense to require infamy for contacts. In fact these contacts are specifically looking to be sure YOU have done something along similar lines to help them.


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Since the VG doesn't get the other badges, either, I don't see why infamy's involved, particularly not to the degree that it requires Midas Touch rather than Mr. Big.

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Is it unfair? Of course, but then again no superhero or villian ever had a fair life. They are ALWAYS torn between tasks and who or what they should do. You want that TV spot, you best make a name for yourself or you are not getting it. You want that badge of honor, you will need to sacrifice other things to get it. A main part of being super are that scarifices, both personal and in the field, you must make to survive and get what you want. If there were no sacrifices or choices, comics would be boring.


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The same's true if comics spend an unduly lengthy amount of time just to advance the plot. Grinds aren't any more interesting in the game than they are in the comics.

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Now last point, why make it unfair from a gameplay perspective? They are not. You want that special power, you will need to work for it. Nothing is earned for free, and personally, the harder and more challenging a badge is to earn, the happier I am. 1000 pillboxes? Holey Toledo Batman! but I will earn it, and feel really good when I do. You want a special accolade, you best be prepared to work for it. Don't want to be humble and die a few times for an accolade. Don't. But stop complaining that you don't want to earn THAT badge to earn THAT power. The Devs reasons are sound, both in game and out, and just be thankful you are getting powers above and beyond the ones you get normally!


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...okay, ewok, I respect you and all, but I don't agree with any of this, at all. It's one thing to say that badges require some element of effort. It's quite another to say 1000 pill boxes that give no credit to anyone else on the team is reasonable, and that since you like it, we should either like it, too, or just shut up about it. By that logic, you might as well make TV about the Empathy badge.

The problem that I have with TV is that it's almost everything I see wrong with the game, rolled up into one package. We've got a grind badge with no bar to unlock content and an accolade that heroes get 10-15 levels earlier, with most of the proponents admitting that it's probably a contact most people will only unlock at level 50. Despite this, we still have about five levels of the game pre-40 where it's very common to run out of contact missions. I doubt anyone would have problems with it if there were no content shortages earlier in levels, or if the accolade were not tied to it.

As it is? You may thoroughly enjoy grinds, but I loathe them. If I feel the devs are doing something unreasonably grinding in nature, I'll speak up. I don't think it's fair or logical for the devs to put the TV in as is, since they've got gaping holes elsewhere that need filling. Likewise, I don't think the devs should put in overlong grind badges, not only because the devs have said time and again that they don't want to reward unfun behavior, but because this game's got enough unenjoyable elements as it is (particularly in PvP zones).

General requests:

If a signature character has a badge associated with his defeat, it should be awarded whenever he's defeated, not just when it's the "right" zone. Recluse's Victory has plenty of badges on its own, more than any other PvP zone by far, and this artificial restriction is unnecessary and unfounded (nothing in the badge descriptions say anything about needing to beat the heroes/villains there).

Please remove or sharply reduce the requiements or difficulties (50% or more) of the grind badges. 1000 Pill Boxes (particularly since this has to be done by each person 1000 times, with no team reward for a very team activity), 1000 heavies, 200 toxic tarantulas (which are rare until Grandville), 200 Marcone bosses (only show up in two zones, one very low level, the other at high enough level that they might lead to outleveling the contact), Midas Touch (as regards the TV contact only - and I'd strongly recommend kicking the TV over to Nerva or St. Martial, and lowering the requirements to appropriate levels, since 30-40 is infamous for not having enough contact missions), Isolator (in a PvP zone and with sharply limited spawn rates, it's a griefable grind, not a challenge) - all of these are excessively high grinds. Grinds don't make the game fun, and the devs have repeatedly said they don't wish to reward grinding - but they are, and how.

Let us know what the badge requirements are. Despite the best efforts of many experienced badge players, we only know of three power-yielding accolades villain-side, when we've got reason to believe at least three more (the equivalents of TF Commander, Atlas Medallion, and Portal Jockey) should be around somewhere. Unfortunately, without knowing what's involved in them, we cannot tell whether we're still missing badges, or if the required badges or the accolades themselves are bugged. This is also true of the Arachnos Transport GM in Grandville - it's apparently a forced spawn, but nobody's seen it in Grandville, only as an unattackable target in Mercy.

Add me to the growing list of people wanting Outcasts by the truckload in Steel Canyon's mission. I'd also really like to see Rikti (esp. monkeys) in Founder's and Peregrine, and a Croatoa mission with lots of red caps (note the space).

If I defeat a signature hero that gives a badge, I'd like the badge for his defeat, please.

I'd like to request that the devs look over the Steel Canyon mayhem mission, since the exploration badge is apparently missing.

I'd also like to request the addition of tally bars to all of the mayhem mission badges. There's confusion over whether all heroes on these missions count toward the "signature heroes" badge, or just the actual signature heroes. Since I've not even heard of people having this badge, there's every question as to whether it's bugged.

Okay, am I the only one wishing there was an emote that set all the thugs in formation with me, and then we all did the "Beat It" dance?

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Complaint 2: KoA bosses should not be able to perma mez like that!

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Perma-mezzing is only unfun in the PvP game, where it would lead to a swift and comparatively painless death. In PvE, where it leads to slow, drawn-out demises flush with debt, it's quite fun.

Oh. Before I forget...

Naming a female fire blaster "Flambeaux" is like naming a male sonic defender "Clarabelle". The terms have genders involved.

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The pistols are fantastic. The only problem I have with Thugs MMs is that none of the secondaries seem to fit, and I can't even think of one that would.


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I use some judicious Poison. Thugs and drugs, y'know? Just skip the spitting poisons.

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A certain subsection of the population asked for Isolator to be offered outside of Outbreak, "no matter how hard it is". Careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

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This isn't hard, this is a tedious grind.

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For the Midas Touch I'm honestly not sure if I understand what the big deal is (yes, outleveling lower contacts with money requirements IS an issue). But 20,000,000 *earned* is nothing. I think people have just forgotten how easy it is to earn money at 48-50 by not being in SG mode.


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This is assuming a great deal, however, not the least of which is that the contact missions carry you up that far. I know that I had to grind about five levels on my way to 40 (29, 33-35, and 39-40). I'd rather see another badge requirement here, and while you may not understand why others consider this worth arguing against, we don't really see why you're arguing for it, either.

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As anyone with a 45+ knows, around 44th/45th is when your earnings REALLY go through the roof, relatively. 20 million is paltry, if you just decide to get it. And your VG really won't be hurting much. Just for concept, I was planning on my main villain being "wealthy". Part of that is having literal tons of infamy.


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Yes, but as before, the bulk of the infamy comes not from mobs and missions, but from reselling the enhancements won. These numbers are therefore meaningless.

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I've contributed at 40th approximately 150k-160k prestige to my VG. We have a huge plot, *all* the PVE extras currently available, and a ton of Prestige banked. Why? Everyone has to stay in pre-25th, but most at the least alternate post 25th level by level or stay in VG mode all the time to help out. But not all.


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I've earned over 500K prestige for my VG. We're still on the small base, and have only 100K prestige banked, although our base is otherwise pretty well tricked out at the moment. I am happy for you that your VG's in better shape than mine, but I do caution you to remember that what holds true for you does not inherently hold true for everyone else.

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And you know what? Even if I alternate level by level through 45th, and then drop out completely for 45th-50th, I'll easily have put up 200k prestige. I already I believe have 1 mill done for infamy earned. I have no doubt that with a modicum of planning on my brute that I can hit 20 million around mid 49th at the earliest.

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Assuming, again, that the contacts carry you that far.

So, again I ask: why Midas Touch, instead of another badge that doesn't have this controversy? Why must this be a contact that even its proponents argue is reasonably likely to be only available to most characters at level 50, despite the fact that it is key to an accolade?

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These numbers assume that you fight nothing but even-con minions and don't get mission bonuses, and don't level, and as such, they are very, very conservative. A worst-case scenario, so to speak. Any actively played character will likely earn much more infamy or prestige than these numbers represent.


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For the sake of brevity, I'll agree to the lot of these numbers.

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I'm really not seeing how dropping out of SG Mode at 45+ long enough to earn 20 million infamy is going to hurt an SG that works together at all, since it allows lower level characters to remain in SG mode longer. I'm going to have to say that I really can't complain with the requirements for this particular badge. And I say this as the leader of an active, moderate-sized SG with a base that still needs quite a few things. (50+ members.)

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I say this as leader of an active, much smaller group (and no offense, I'd consider your group to be large): your numbers do not take into account that more than one person is going to be doing this at the same time, nor that this is likely to be a bone of contention if the lower-level people in these groups drop group mode entirely to hasten their infamy earning. As this is a protracted effort for many people - and remembering, again, that it's not uncommon for villains level 25-40 to have gaps where they already have to grind just to advance, a complaint brought up by at least one player in the 40-45 game - your numbers present a number of raw kills needed, but not the time in which to do them.

And so, I reiterate: why Midas Touch?

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You what might be a good idea for the Devs to consider investing the time in, for "tech"?

1. What about simply removing level caps on contacts? 2. Why not have all missions simply scale to the level of the mission holder?

What could be unbalanced or bad with this?

Also: boom, instant flash-back.

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Hey, I've long been in favor of this. Can't tell you how frustrating it is to have outleveled one story arc because the requirements for the badge to unlock it were too steep (Spectral), or to miss a story arc entirely due to a bugged badge (Villain).

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Further, what's so bad about content you have to work to open?

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Nothing, but this isn't working to open anything. This is just grinding to an invisible finish line, at the expense of the VG, and with other, arguably better options to consider. You can't truly work toward Midas Touch, either - infamy's a reward that's more or less flat across missions and mobs, in that one of equivalent level gives roughly the same as the rest. All you can do is blindly and repeatedly grind away at it.

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All the Devs are doing with this is saying: "Play your character post 50th".


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That's what they're saying about the Recluse SF. Right now, we don't even know if there's enough content to take us to 50 without grinding.

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We can't run missions if they're not our own? We can't exemp? We can't catch up on SFs we missed? The TV is a non-issue, and in the course of normal play it eventually opens.


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The TV's a non-issue to you. To us, it's a contact that we may need just to hit 50 without having to trudge through paper or Warburg missions, and it's a contact that comes at the expense of our base while having no logical reason toward its requirement.

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As the content will never expire--it's a 50th contact--whats bad with this?


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Even putting aside the issues of putting in a second contact that expressly rewards personal advancement at the cost of the group (which I don't inherently have a problem with in theme, if not in gameplay terms - it's a villain contact, after all), Midas Touch is a pure grind badge. There's very little to be done to speed it up, even less to keep track of your advancement in it, and (by the time it's an issue) the infamy itself is of negligible benefit compared to the alternative (prestige and salvage).

Now, to reiterate an oft-asked question... why this badge? Other badges are similarly appropriate to both high-level characters and to the TV contact: Megalomaniac springs instantly to mind, for instance. So do Sleepy, Slacker, All Consuming, Media Junky (both versions), Cess Pool, the Next Big Thing, Master of the Airwaves, Paragon of Vice, Soul Taker, Agent of Discord, Irradiated, Electrician, and even Mr. Big. I'm probably forgetting several.

Why Midas Touch?

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Of course, I tend to have the odd idea that SG members should work with each other, and cooperate, and even share resources. I'm sure not everyone would agree with this. I'm sure there's people out there that insist that *every* member of their SG be in SG mode at ALL times, regardless of whether or not their members have anything resembling enough infamy to purchase their Enhancements. And I'm sure that there are many SGs where there are no entry requirements other than having a character, and some members are cordially disliked by half the other members.

All I can say is this...I'd rather rely on my higher level members, or BE the higher level member, to enable the lower level members to both earn Prestige *and* purchase enhancements. I'd rather have SGs where I actually care about the members, and don't mind donating infamy to them. The whole SG functions better.

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My VG's policy is that we ask that people be in VG-mode pre-24, when the penalty hits, but that thereafter, only so long as they wish. Most of my crew seem to prefer VG mode, simply because they can afford their enhancements themselves just by selling off whatever they find on missions. The problem is, the math doesn't work when these people are trying to earn infamy for the badges that tier eventually into an accolade, and the math especially fails with regards to my VG given that we don't have very many members, despite our efforts to the contrary. The prestige is also not the only issue to consider - for the larger groups, better gear for the base can only be earned by recovering rare salvage drops that only happen in late game.

The importance of prestige v. infamy isn't being overstated, IMO. It's being stated as precisely what it is: a confusing choice by the devs to push players towards personal goals over group ones. This is all the odder given that the devs themselves have acknowledged that bases are needing to get looked at again.

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Not even Fascism really. He is very much a proponent of the power of the individual over the faceless masses. If I recall, the basis of fascism was to promote the rights and power of the group over that of the individual.


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I'm referring to the novel, not the 60-70 years later version of his philosophy. In the novel, he clearly finds both fascism and technocracy to be, if not the best solutions for society's ills, at least good ideas to work from. By the time of the novel's close, he's already moving on toward his own political theories, but the book remains the primary source for information on his philosophical beliefs so far.

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Instead he promotes a form of anarchy that is tailor suited to compete with other forms of society. The political machine he has set up is tailor suited to give people a choice, strive to rise as far as you can and live, or become part of the faceless masses to be used by the strong, not to maximize the power of society by subjecting the masses into the most efficient groups possible.

On the surface it seems like fascism as both work to shove down people down below something greater, but in this case, the greater are individuals who fought against the system rather than accepting it

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Oh, no argument that it's not fascism... but it's a lot closer to fascism than it is to anarchy. The closest parallel I can find are probably the intended one: Big Brother, from Orwell's 1984, had a similar strategy of an absolute power ruling in no small part through co-opting the opposition, too. Recluse is, after all, the absolute leader of the Rogue Isles. His rule is, if not uncontested, feared and entrenched. If anything, the system in place is an exceptionally skewed and twisted form of meritocracy. The Rogue Isles aren't lawless, and they have a definite authority, which means it's not an anarchy, and Recluse isn't the Archvillain of Anarchy.

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Say for a moment you can hit 50 and keep on working for the Infamy badge...
How long do you end up grinding at 50 for the badge? And then, is that amount of grind worth it for 6 missions?

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Remember, too, that Midas Touch has no status bar, is incredibly difficult to track the numbers independently, and still precludes prestige-earning (even level 50s can earn prestige!). We also have very few players who've hit the post-45 game - we don't know if the missions run out yet, which is one of the big problems with the extant late game for villains. Oh, and we still have the accolade equivalent tied up in TV's missions that heroes get 10-15 levels earlier.

Considering the devs have stated that they realize there are problems with the base system, you'd think they wouldn't go out of their way to exacerbate the problem with stuff like this.

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It sounds like I13 is better. I'm looking forward to it.

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Well...

...issue 13 has Statesman and Foreshadow doing their best Ace & Gary impersonation...

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is there a point to killing lots of redcaps? i already got the toothbreaker badge from helping other ppl kill him


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Yes - you can theoretically get Capbuster, but it's a long grind to it due to most redcaps not counting toward it. It'd have been really nice to be able to finish the badge before they take away the option.

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You don't get a badge for each signature hero defeated. Considering I now have a progress bar, I'm guessing that its similar to Dimensional Warder in that you only get the badge once you have defeated ALL of the signature heros. I doubt Black Scorpion is meant to award a badge, as you already got one from doing his previous arc.

The exception to individual badges is, of course, beating the main heros and villains that spawn as reinforcements in Recluse's Victory. Those appear to be separate from the count for Freedom Phalanx heros defeated in missions.

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That's just it - if I defeat Back Alley Brawler, and Back Alley Brawler has a badge for defeating him, logically it follows that I should get it. I don't, because there's an additional requirement (that it's the RV version), but this caveat's not listed anywhere in the game. It's a needless restriction.

Wow, do I have issues with the badges in this...

Let's start off by haphazard badge awarding again. The long-overdue "defeat signature heroes" badges are finally in, but despite the fact that my villainous main has offed Back Alley Brawler and Black Scorpion, I've received the badges for neither of them. Apparently, they only count if they happen in an alternate timestream, despite no mention of that requirement anywhere in-game. This is especially aggrivating, since people will need to have confusion on them repeatedly to take out "their" side's characters for these badges.

My main villain has 198 badges live. I know people who've got over 210. None of us got the villainous equivalent to Atlas Medallion when we logged into test, despite this being a badge commonly awarded to heroes around 25-30 in range, when PvP should be a consideration.

Several rare groups aren't in CoV in significant numbers, despite giving up badges. Illusionist, Weatherman, Revealer, Zookeeper, and possibly Visionary take inordinately long stretches to grab, for no other reason than because they only show up a few at a time, in a very few missions or rare outside spawns. Worse still, Capbuster's still got a tracking bar, and while the devs could have thrown us a bone by making a Mayhem mission in Croatoa, they evidently chose not to. Given that the only reason this is a grind is because Posi apparently purposefully made it that way, I've got to confess my severe disappointment. All of these mobs are relatively common hero-side, but villain-side it takes large groups weeks at a time to grind out the badges.

And, of course, we get to the coup de grace on badges in this set: Isolator. I won't indulge in inflammatory or superlative text here, I'll only point out to Posi that people agreed to a difficult task to get Isolator, but you've given them a long, easily-griefable grind instead. There's a wide difference there, and honestly, I think you should reconsider your implementation of this.

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Black Scorpion second story arc:

****SPOILERS**** and a warning

After completing the arc with Dr. Quatrexin and getting The Stinger badge, I was offered another arc - [censored] in the Armor. This arc involves kidnapping Dr. Aeon to make anti-ghost weapons for the Scorpion suit.

The final 2-part mission is bugged. The mission starts with Black Scorpion telling you to talk to an arbiter to set up a fake story and then kill Dr. Aeon. The arbiter doesn't believe the lame cover story and tells you to either stop Scorpion's insane plot or face the wrath of Recluse. The first door mission has you rescuing Dr. Aeon from Silver Mantis - but when I attacked Silver Mantis, Dr. Aeon just disappeared. Since rescuing him was an objective, I couldn't complete the mission. After that was cleared by a GM, I went on to the second - a timed mission to disarm some bombs and defeat Black Scorpion. Black Scorp spawned as an ambush after the last bomb, but defeating him didn't clear the mission - he only had 1 minion instead of 2, so I think one might have gotten lost. Had to get a GM to clear it with very little time to spare.

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Ugh. That branches off into a timed mission? Didn't say that anywhere in the game.

What happens after you beat up your nominal boss? Kind of curious why he lets you keep working for him.

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Okay, I'm not actually on test, but I have a few things to say either way:

-I've read 33 pages of recounts of Mayhem missions, and noticed a distinct lack of Blue Steel, the most logical guy to try to stop you. By 'distinct lack' I mean he isn't there, and he really should be.


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While I agree in principle, remember that Blue Steel's shield strongly suggests that he's got a power set that's not implemented yet.