Samuel_Tow

I'd say they need better forward planning. The way they've divided the content between Issues, there always seems to be something major left out. Ever since I18, it's felt like we've been getting half of last Issue and half of next Issue, but never anything that's actually complete end-to-end.

Let me explain. The WTF reward is required to create the Very Rare boost, and if you're shooting for one of those, it means you already have at least one Rare boost. So suppose you're shooting for a Very Rare and you end up doing a TF that exemplars you to level 25? Exemplaring below level 50 disables your Incarnate boosts, meaning you're fighting for Incarnate power... Without Incarnate power.

Not only that, but you're doing content that people of a vastly lower level of power are doing at that time. The idea behind the "Exemplar" system as a concept was that a hero would hold back his full power so as to demonstrate to a weaker, less experienced hero how to handle his own powers at his current level. The Well of the Furies, by contrast, "is neither good nor evil. It responds to power alone." as per Mender Ramiel. You're not showing power. You are, in fact, showing the opposite of power by holding back, possibly even getting defeated for it.

I'm not saying it's not doable or that it won't be done, but rather that it just seems... Really odd. In the future when we divorce NotW drops from the WTF, I could see that, as the system will have a different basic purpose. But right now? Strange, strange decisions going on.

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Put it this way - I ***** and moan about doing TFs, but even I will do TFs on occasion. Hell, I ran a few just last week. I ain't exemplaring down to run them, however. No way, no how. Never have, never will. Don't like losing powers I've grown to rely on. Rare or no Rare.

Huh... OK, I did not expect that. Seriously. Why put a post-level-cap reward tied to content that will exemplar you about half of the way down? I could see the Apex and Tin Mage TFs being labelled as Incarnate content (which they are), since they assume you have Incarnate powers, and I could kind of see the other level cap content since it doesn't care if you do or don't have it. But putting Incarnate rewards behind content which assumes and ensures that you DON'T have Incarnate powers?

Am I seriously the only one that finds this incredibly odd?

I was too slow on the delete button, but I CAN confirm that the post which was quoted did indeed exist at one point.

And I don't recall mentioning or implying self-worth. If anything, I was implying that browbeating people and taking pride that you don't care about their feelings isn't exactly something I'd personally describe as a positive character trait, especially in an environment that people constantly insist has to be social and sociable.

Personally, I look forward to the day when it will be the Faatim the Kind TF, and I say this without a shadow of sarcasm. This one is painful to run, admittedly, but it's one of the few TFs I actually like, because it has to do with the Shadow Shard - one of the game's best settings - and unlike all other Shard TFs isn't completely stupid. I still have the full monument verse as a souvenir for Samuel Tow, and for quite a while I was able to take some degree of pride with that since TFs didn't give souvenirs for several years after they broke.

What I am concerned about - if ever so slightly - is what happens if they pick a WTF that caps a level below 50, like, say, the Ernesto Hess TF? Granted, it will be doable, but it might be odd to have your sole source of Incarnate progress be a task that exemplars away your Incarnate powers. And that's not just idle doom-searching. If they are planning to use this idea for what I think they're planning to use it - which is to say as a recurring mechanic to incite people to mix up their TFs - then this would have to include ALL TFs, not just level cap ones. Of course, it's possible that they won't include lower-level TFs until we get to I20 and the "other means" open up, but at that point I fear we may run out of level cap TFs.

Honest question: How many level cap TFs are there that can either be done by both sides or have a counterpart on the villain-side? STF vs. RSF is easy, as are Khan vs. Barakuda, but the Shard TFs? And is that really it? Those two plus ITF, Lady Grey, Tin Mage, Apex? Am I forgetting something? Purely going off memory here.

Bad timing, then. I did a Khan TF with the Hamster I think either earlier this week or late last week. It was just as boring as I remembered it, but that's more a function of that particular TF than anything else.

So I assume that's Khan/Barakuda?

Again, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I just seem to have lost the train of thought behind the Incarnate system. I was under the impression - from what people have beaten me over the head about - that its intention was to provide those who want to focus on characters with more content, yet that they can't do because of time-gating. Clearly I understood something wrong.

And do you know what constant putdowns by people like you amount to? Bullies. Let's just shut those people up, and maybe they'll go away. We don't want anyone speaking ill of things we like, now do we?

What's interesting to me is you call me a martyr when I've specifically said I made my choice, put my money where my mouth is and went about my business. I didn't ask for compassion, I didn't ask for understanding, I didn't ask for concessions.

I respect the OP for coming out and admitting he was wrong. I don't respect his subsequent attempts to shut down those who don't feel they were. I disrespect you for putting down other people so you can feel better about yourself.

Some days fridge logic grips me, and I think of all the times people have told me how many-year veterans are no longer the target demographic and that I should take breaks or leave the game entirely. And then I remember this, and chuckle to myself. Yeah, every time I think they're finally done making really useful things ever more exclusive, they add something like this, and I'm reminded of exactly how strong a grip this game has on its long-term veterans.

But, no, buying back lost months is pointless, to the extreme that it makes veteran rewards unnecessary and obsolete. Besides, I'd much rather have the Vanguard pack, since those are items I'll never see otherwise.

There's something I find quite interesting about the Incarnate system and how it's time-gated. The goal of end game raiding - as I've seen it requested - seems to be to provide infinite progression for one character, to suit those who don't like to make alts. Which is fair enough, I suppose, except for the part of time-gating, which actually punishes those who focus on just one character, as that character will be spinning his wheels until next week, vs. people who play multiple characters simultaneously, as those will be able to swap and get several times the progress.

I'm not saying whether that's good or bad, it just seems... Self-contradicting, as I understand it. How ARE we expected to play this?

Then you are mistaken, as I never implied I lacked the time, or indeed lacked the opportunity. What I said, if you insist on bringing this up, is that I lack PEOPLE I LIKE to run TFs with, which is an entirely different point. Furthermore, I exposited that I like to play at my own pace and not be bound to other people depending on me. I never said I was UNABLE to run TFs, only that I am UNWILLING to run TFs.

This is what I've been saying for six years, and this has not changed.

No, I don't, and I never said this. What I actually said is I want options. I have nothing against the WTF system, and have indeed spoken in favour of it, today even. I disagree with the Rare salvage being tied to it, but as I'm sure you'll remind me that's a placeholder for I20.

No, it didn't, and your habit of putting words in my mouth is becoming offputting. Would you kindly start using the forums' quote function that has back links to the source posts, please?

"The system" is what it is. Sideways of never having said it's "badly designed," I want - again - options. "Oh, but you'll have options, just wait until I20!" Yes, I know. We went over this. Over and over again. The result? "You don't have to use it."

Well, guess what - I choose not to use it. So what, exactly, is your problem? What would you have me do? Or say? Do you want me to say I like the system? Because that would be a lie. Do you want to make me run TFs and like them? Because you can't. Do you want to bar me from posting on the subject? You can try approaching the mods about that. What, exactly, are you achieving here?

You admitted you were wrong. I restated that I feel I was right. It seems relevant to me. Just because YOU changed your mind doesn't mean the rest of us did, and just because you changed your mind doesn't mean those of us who haven't are just going to say nothing.

I had intended to leave it at that, but you keep insisting on making an issue out of it. You don't get to blame JUST me for what comes of it.

*edit*
You know what's funny, in the abstract sense of the word? Every time I express my dislike for a new system, regardless of what or why that might be, people always seem to start queuing up to tell me that I'm wrong, and that I don't have the right to dislike it because my reasons are wrong or insufficient. And then they turn around and blame me for making a big issue. It never fails.

That wasn't to complain, more to discuss that if it WERE put in-game, where it should be put. I honestly don't have a good idea as to where other than to put them in the Info Kiosks.

I keep thinking this should be somewhere in the interface. I'm not sure exactly where one might find this. But the GMOTD is a bad place to put it, if this is the idea. Not unless they have a separate section devoted to this.

I suppose the Information Kiosks may not be a bad place to put, you know, important information. Do those even work any more?

There have been no significant changes to any piece of content that I am aware of, excluding the Positron Task Force, since they introduced outdoor instances in I1 and ret-conned certain old missions to use the new outdoor maps

This is devolving into another semantics argument, and you are welcome to continue it without me. I've had quite enough of it.

And that bothers you how, exactly? Both people's vitriol and the way the system is set up have made it pretty evident to me that I do not want to participate. It's as simple as that. Unless you feel some compulsion to make me participate - in which you will fail - then it really shouldn't affect you. I don't like the system, and I'm done arguing and explaining why, so I'm leaving it at this. I didn't like the system when it was presented to me before, I don't like the system when I see it in-game now, and I'm fairly certain that I'll never like it in this incarnation. That is that.

However, you regard the system as though the only thing preventing people from running Task Forces is the lack of opportunity, when that isn't really the case. There are, in fact, people who simply do not like to run TFs if given the choice. This is not subject to debate any more than one can debate about the existence of people who like to make and play anthropomorphic characters. It's a simple fact.

It was made abundantly clear to me that I had to make my own choices, and this is what I chose. I intend to stick with it.

A good product it is, I still believe, but you also have to remember that it is a niche product, as well. Granted, MMOs in general are no longer niche these days, nor are indeed super hero MMOs, but ours still kind of is. I guess the drive to add raids is in an effort to make it ever so slightly less niche, but its target audience is still fairly limited.

Remember, an MMO needs not just customers, but satisfied customers, and having them find out they had completely the wrong idea about what it is that they were buying doesn't seem like the best way to achieve that. I know for certain that I had nothing like the right idea of what the game was going on the original intro, or indeed even by the old "Paragon City! Where YOU are the hero!" trailer. I came from a background of Diablo 2, so I thought this would be something completely different. I'm glad about what it turned out to be, granted, but I wouldn't count on that for most people.

*edit*
That's not to say I don't want a CGI trailer. Far from it. I just find it to be really misleading to use that as advertisement for the game.

From the story of Merulia, as told by the Vincent Ross arc, I think we can assume that they are, indeed, Incarnates themselves. This is actually supported by the various stories surrounding the origin of Magic, Tielekku and the history of the Oranbegans. Pruportedly, Magic didn't exist at first, there was only "divine power," which we can now infer to be the power of the well. The gods were able to use this power of the well, in conjunction with magic to strengthen themselves independently.

What actually happened to them is up in the air right now, at least until we know what the well does with the chosen it discards.

Content is, and I suspect will continue to be, the Incarnate system's Achilles' heel, if for no reason other than because it constitutes, or feels like it should, at least, a whole new field for which content has to be created out of whole cloth. It's not like adding more level 50 content where there's already level 50 content from previous Issues. Or is it?

My fear for the system is that it's intended to be presented to us as "more level 50 content" and that Incarnates are and will be expected to subsist on existing content and not entirely on new content, as one may expect.

It's also false advertising, however. I may not be a layman, but the reason I'm not is because I was foolish enough to buy games based on ads, trailers and FMVs, whereas these days I specifically look for direct unedited in-game footage. Once you see that that high-flying, adventure-filled fantasy MMO that feels like an action movie come to life consists of stiff combat and hours of staring at large interface windows, you can make a much more informed decision.

I say it's false advertising, because an MMO survives on subscriptions, not box sales, and getting people to buy a box of what is ostensibly a completely different game isn't always a good idea for player retention. I know something about that from personal experience.

No, I couldn't find that. The forums don't log in from within the game and last time I checked, patch notes did not exist. Am I to infer we'll get new patch notes each week? Should I follow that particular thread? What if the forums start crashing for me like they did back that day when I made a thread to complain about it?

When I ask for a way to tell which is the current strike target, I infer that this is an in-game way, going off the fairly public information that many players don't come to the boards. You are correct, however, in that I should probably have specified. This doesn't change the fact that releasing a major addition to the game without actual in-game interface to support it is, to quote the thread "ill-conceived."