What happened to the Gods?

From the story of Merulia, as told by the Vincent Ross arc, I think we can assume that they are, indeed, Incarnates themselves. This is actually supported by the various stories surrounding the origin of Magic, Tielekku and the history of the Oranbegans. Pruportedly, Magic didn't exist at first, there was only "divine power," which we can now infer to be the power of the well. The gods were able to use this power of the well, in conjunction with magic to strengthen themselves independently.

What actually happened to them is up in the air right now, at least until we know what the well does with the chosen it discards.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

It must be some sort of "creative liberty" when they claim to bestow powers on a mortal.

whether some of that has changed with the whole Well thing is unclear.

Perhaps, or it could be some nature of the powers.

- Stheno, a Serpent incarnate from some earlier "age of heroes" has serpentine "children" followers.

- Lord Recluse uses technology to extract a serum that mutates people into arachnoids, much the same.

- Going with this theme, Merulina, while extraterrestrial in origin, also made the coralax from coral imbued with its essence. Nothing says the incarnates have to be terrestrial...

- ... And if Shiva was really an giant entity like Merulina, its shivans could similarly be "bled off" powers from its (destroyed/damaged/regenerating) incarnate remains.

- So a "Magical" themed incarnate did much the same in imbuing followers with magic?

it may not need to be changed too much.

A world with Incarnates at war would be a terrible mess. It could be that the Incarnates of each successive era band together to defeat/imprison the belligerent ones (under an island, under a city's, etc) and then, witnessing the destruction they could cause, withdraw *somewhere else* ... perhaps leaving behind remnanats that can intervene when they detect their old foes awakening.

Oh great . . . . . they're coming back and they want their well/powers given back to them at any cost

As I always interpreted the lore, before Tielekku there were only intrinsic magical abilities, both divine and otherwise. A fire demon could throw magical flame, a god of healing could heal; but if they didn't naturally have a magical effect in their arsenal that was that. Tielekku invented the techniques for using magic independent of a being's nature, of shaping it though knowledge and skill instead of just using natural abilities. Basically, she did the mystical equivalent of inventing tools. Which allowed mortals to grow magically powerful and help win the war against the Banished Pantheon and rival the gods in power, since while not magical beings in themselves they could learn to use it once taught the first spells, the techniques for manipulating magical forces.

And then some ask you "Who are you?" whilst the others ask you "What do you want?"

"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

"Why are you here?"



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Why are you? How do you want? When do you do?

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"You got to dig it to dig it, you dig?"
Thelonious Monk

"Get the hell out of our galaxy!"

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The gods get their powers from the well of furies so we are at their level. Statesman and Recluse will soon be lesser beings to every super hero and villain in the world! Because when everyone is super, no one will be muhahahaha!

That assumes it was Tielekku who invented magic, and we have conflicting reports on that between War Witch and Virgil Tarikoss, who insist that Tielekku invented magic and taught it to the gods and that humans invented magic and Tielekku learned it from them.

Either way, "magic" is clearly defined as separate and unconnected to divine power, divine power being the gods' innate abilities. I assume that means things like flight, immortality, superior strength and whatever else they are described as having. That, once upon a time, would have been viewed as Natural, but has now been described as the power of the Well. Magic is a drastically different and separate concept, one to do with the manipulation and control of nature to bend it to one's will through the use of ritual and knowledge, as usable by both gods and humans alike.

I also don't think it's a safe assertion to draw a parallel between demons and magic outside of context. Demons in general are magical beings, assumed to be created by magic or using magic, but demonic power as a core power source itself is not magic. And that's not just semantics - if it comes down to eldritch godlike creatures, that goes to the well, the power of which apparently transcends origins, and magic in particular.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

This is what I was thinking. At first glance, it does seem like a retcon.

Tarikoss is a known liar and fanatic, and the rest of his spiel contradicts what we learn in the rest of the game; the history of the Circle of Thorns for example. He's clearly caught up in some kind of Humans As The Master Race rant.

The Well itself may be no more than a manifestation. Like Yggrasil. It may take different forms depending on its whims.

Consider the symbolism of a well. It is a passage to a source that lies at its base.