Samuel_Tow
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Quote:Huh... That's not entirely where I was going, but I LOVE the idea nonetheless! Recluse has tried ruling a nation of Earth, and this hasn't gone well. It makes too much noise, it takes too much political dancing and in the end, it doesn't really offer all that much in return, other than pure land resources. It would be much smarter to restrict his Primal Earth footpring to the fortress city of Grandville - an easily defensible position with enough manpower and resources to hold a stable beachhead while the rest of his empire sprawls across many worlds that we simply never even suspect. Recluse, it turns out, doesn't need the Rogue Isles. He all of the miltiverse to exploit, if he plays his cards right, with really only Nemesis Rex to get in the way.Originally Posted by Op_Megs
Hell, Grandville could become a proper capital again, with "Arachnos Dimensions" popping up where he's gone inter-dimensional conqueror while feigning weakness in the face of the revolts in the Isles proper. And your mention of integrating DDP conscripts into the Bane Network does wonders for explaining their apparent expendable status. All the *valuable* Banes are probably staying back in Grandville, while the photocopy brains are on the front lines.
In a sense, Recluse discovers a way to make Arachnos stronger than it has ever been while still keeping it very, very lean. A smaller footprint makes his threat harder to fully appreciate, it makes for a smaller target for attackers and infiltrators and it makes for a place that's much easier to control. And yet at the same time, Arachnos has set deep, deep roots across the multiverse.
Also, Recluse is never above stealing from people. Anti-Matter stole portal technology from Primal Earth, Neuron stole it from him and developed his large-scale portal technology... Who's to say Recluse hasn't stolen that from and expanded upon it. Have you noticed that huge giant empty chamber in the middle of his tower in Grandville. It might seem like that's a really, really inefficient hangar, but it's as much a hangar as Neuron's little decorative pool under the NTU tower is a decorative pool. No, Recluse's tower isn't just there to prop up the net. The whole thing is a massive engineering project with one purpose above all else - the ability to move a large-scale military force across dimensions when the time is right.
That, to me, is the perfect solution to making Recluse a true flagship villain and making Arachnos an actual, believable threat on the global playground without having to accept that "Shut up! He is!" Recluse's presence on Earth is unimpressive, but there's no telling how far beyond our world his presence extends. I admit, I'm a Nemesis fan, but if there's one person in our whole fictional universe that I'd willingly accept beating him at his own game, it's Recluse, because he is, essentially, "the villain" in the purest sense of the word. And I really wish more is done with him.
I tried to stick to explaining Grandville's pre-50 game since the zone doesn't have Incarnate content in it and should reflect the 40-50 timeline. However, I can take a stab at it, because I do have some ideas. I'd like to go in a different direction with Recluse than what's been done with Tyrant, just because I don't want to repeat storylines, but also because I think he's not the same kind of character who's go for that, not as a grand master plan. And yeah, I know that's pretty much what the RSF is, but bear with me for a bit.Quote:Originally Posted by Op_Megs
About the only thing I can think of is that there should be further mention of Recluse's Incarnate-related experiments, especially with that origin making such a huge resurgence. We saw some of it in the DA arcs where he's planning to siphon newly Incarnated Destined Ones to empower his army, and even pushed back to Grandville as he is here, I think Recluse still has the resources to pursue that.
We know Recluse, like the Statesman, is an Incarnate who suffers the same danger of being overtaken. We know he's trying to overcome that limitation - that's what the Arachnoids are for, that's what the Web is for. But suppose that he can't? Suppose one day it sinks into Recluse that... Yeah, this is as strong as he's ever going to be, or else he'll lose his mind. What would he do? Give up? Cry on the Red Widow's shoulder? Leave? Or would he just say "OK, fine, I can't have power. So why not make everyone else lose theirs?" It's clear that the Well can back any power it's given, but if the Well can take it away, then there must be a way for someone else to force that power to return. Dang, if only there were someone who knew a lot about sapping meta-humans of their power and was, at the same time, desperate for better technology and more resources. Then he remembers the Titans shooting shooting up the gutter right under his very nose.
Malta already have the technology to nullify heroes' powers, and this technology can be procured. They're already cutting deals with heroes out of desperation and wait a minute! Didn't Recluse have a Malta bigshot in one of his brigs? Well, that's an idea. Make the man an offer he'll like - promise him "a technocratic world led by its greatest thinkers," as Grillo would put it, a world where meta-humans are no longer allowed to run rampant and will, instead, have to answer to a greater authority than just themselves. And if he DOESN'T want to take the offer, make him the counter-proposal of feeding him to the Arachnoids. So that's taken care of, but we know basic Sapper rifles don't work on Incarnates, or at least we infer they aren't as effective.
What's needed here is a technology which would sap the powers out of a being of ANY power level, no matter its strength. Now if only there were someone who had fought a power greater than any known to man, say the Battalion, and won. Maybe they'd have research data on how such power works, but who... Wait, didn't the Rikti fight the Batllion at one point? Wait, isn't there a Rikti Restructurist ambassador right at his very doorstep? You know, an ambassador for the faction that has access to their homeworld? I wonder what it would take to convince him to part with that information... Well, considering the mess that has become of the Rikti war effort in the War Zone, I wanted if a couple of armies of Bane Spiders might not sweeten the deal. Recluse ought to have enough of those rolling around, made up of brainwashed natives from the various alternate Earths. Sure, it's a big sacrifice, but it's worth it.
So manybe the man can't "hang" on the Incarnate level. That's fine, since he doesn't have to. Because anyone he fights will suddenly find his connection to the well rather a lot more tennuous all of a sudden. Say... Like a person who has stolen the power of an Incarnate and a powerful psychic and partially merged with Rularuu. I wonder where we can find one of those? Well, we can't, really, but Darrin Wade did it once... I wonder if it can't be done again, maybe even multiple times. I wonder if this can't actually be reproduced. Oh, sure, there was only one Statesman and he was dead, but you might not actually need to kill an Incarnate and steal his powers. What if you already WERE an Incarnate? Now, Recluse is one, but he's not dumb enough to take Rularuu into HIS head... But Incarnates seem to be spawning left and right. OK, so Project: Destiny was a wash... But a lot of the so-called Destined Ones seem to be developing Incarnate powers. Oh, if only there was a weapon that could incapacitate an Incarnate, capture him and experiment on him... Say like one based on Malta technology and Rikti science.
That might produce quite a powerful army of Incarnates and, indeed, Rularuu-possessed Incarnates. And all of them at Recluse's beck and call since he's the one with the power suppression device. Now wouldn't that make him a very powerful man even if his own personal power isn't up to par any more? I know I would. -
Quote:I actually think it would fall more under "Integrated Shoulders" as Champions Online called it. That's basically a whole solid unmovable piece that hangs on the shoulders, back and chest. Kind of like exactly what we're told multiple times we CAN'T have, which the Legacy Chain do and the PPD and the IDF and so forth.Originally Posted by Starhammer
I think that would be more likely to fall under Robes than shoulders, since it's all one piece. In fact, we have a robe that's pretty close to that.
Yeah, I'd like to have some of those. -
Quote:Your anger is misdirected. As one of the chief proponents of having my ego stroked, I have the exact same complaint as yours - stop dragging the signature heroes through the mid. Making Superman look bad so you can make Batman look good is the equivalent of stealing from Jack to pay Jill - nobody wills, and I just feel dirty. Why? Because someone at Marketing interpreted my desire to NOT have my characters play second fiddle as carte blanche to humiliate or outright MURDER the signature characters. I didn't want to see the signature characters defaced. That's not a good way to make me "bigger" than them. I've not become bigger at all, they're just now not worthy of my respect, which defeats the point of wanting to be bigger than them in the first place. I'm bigger than the Skulls, too, but that's not as fulfilling, is it?Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
Nowadays, as a player I'm having my ego stroked constantly by the game showing me just how useless the Freedom Phalanx is and how wonderful everyone thinks it is that my character is there to clean up their messes. This is not having the effect that I think you intended it to have.
Pandering to players' egos is a good thing, but only if it's done right. We need characters who stand strong and tall because we need characters to respect, and we need characters to respect so that surpassing them is a meaningful objective. All humiliating the signature characters and "bringing them down to our level" does is make them not worth competing with. People say "shoot for the sky," but how much of an achievement would it be if the sky were to simply fall down to Earth? What satisfaction is there in being the one-eyed man in the kingdom of the blind?
The very real mistake our story-writers keep making is being unable to tell the difference between asking to be greater than the great and in response being made the person who sucks the least. This is the exact reason why to this day, I maintain that SSA1.7 is the least horrible of the SSA1 series. And we all know how big of a compliment that is. Tell me, then, how much of a compliment it is for player characters to be praised as the least worthless of them all. -
Well, like I said from the beginning, I'm not in charge of the game and I don't have the power to OK any changes whatsoever. This is just my attempt to put my thoughts into words and to have a body of work to reference in the future when I talk about what I'd like to see happen with the Rogue Isles. I know this isn't everyone's cup of team, but that's where I stand, personally.
To me, the Rogue Isles have always been a mess, and that's what I focused on in my revisit of Grandville. I just can't see a nation governed like the Rogue Isles are not falling apart and following the example of so many African nations, by descending into faction warfare and no strong central government. More than anything else, I just never "got" Arachnos. I know why they exist - as a framing device and as THE faction to join back when Jack Emmert thought all villains wanted to be PART of an evil organisation as opposed to RUNNING one. But I just can't get into the whole notion of "social Darwinism," because what's strong typically isn't the same thing as what makes a strong national state.
For me to believe that Recluse can run the Isles so badly and yet still keep control is for me to accept that Arachnos is a HELL of a lot more powerful than it actually appears to be. The real problem is that, with how the storyline is written up, there's no reason given to players to fear Arachnos. We kick down the door to their bases and empty them of troops on a regular basis. We kick the ***** of their soldiers to kingdom come and never suffer any consequences. We slap Arachnos around like a red-headed stepchild... And then Arbiter Daos says "Jump!" and my character says "How high?" That just doesn't jive for me.
The only reason I can reasonably accept Arachnos ruling the Rogue Isles as it is right now is as a con by Recluse, with the organisation living on borrowed time. To me, Arachnos is a step-by-step recreation of the Soviet Union, but with more spiders. It's a state that can exist for a many years, but that is ultimately living on borrowed time until the money runs out. Recluse is bleeding men and bases left and right, and there's no realistic, believable way for him to be able to recover that. And he's not even fighting for the "glory of Arachnos" - that's why Ghost Widow eventually turns on him. He's fighting for is own ends. Power for Lord Recluse, the defeat of the Statesman, the takeover of Paragon City. The only way I can believe Arachnos as working is as a ticking time bomb that, sooner or later, will cave in on itself as Recluse skips town in the middle of the night.
Now, all of that is not to say you're wrong for feeling how you do. You like the story and the setting, and I can appreciate that. It's not "bad," it's just something I don't really enjoy reading about. I know it's comic book logic that the villains always have infinite bank accounts and and endless supply of goons, but I just happen to enjoy a story that makes the bad guy's resources finite much more. When you consider that the heroes aren't the only ones taking chances, facing calculating risks and gambling everything, it makes the villains seem that much more believable and real. It's one thing to have a villain who can afford to lose a zillion times and keep coming. It's quite another to have a villain who, all of a sudden, can't afford to throw soldiers away. Then the dynamic changes and the story gets more interesting.
It all comes down to personal preference. I know that the studio is never going to face an easy choice on the matter, or indeed on any matter. I really feel for Doc Aeon and his guys when they have to make a story fully knowing the results will upset some people no matter what. This is just my take on it, and my running objective is to transform the Rogue Isles into something I can believe. -
Quote:I did. I'll edit that away when I get the chance.Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
Sam... just one problem with your last post: You mention both Arachnos AND Longbow withdrawing to Fort Darwin. Now I'm pretty sure you meant Arachnos retreating to FORT CERBERUS unless you plan for a comedy serious about Longbow and Arachnos sharing a base as odd-couple roommates.
I was as surprised as you back in the day when I stumbled on the thing from both ends. I always wondered why it's blocked off and we have to use a ferry that ONLY goes between Port Oakes and Cap Au Diable when they could have just opened up the tunnel and let us use that. These days with the ferries unified, you barely notice that, but I still wanted to give an explanation for why it's sealed with junk and debris.Quote:Originally Posted by Tenzhi
You know, there are a lot of interesting ideas here, and I'm certainly behind making Arachnos less prevalent, but for some reason all I can think now is: "Wait, there's a tunnel between Cap Au Diable and Port Oakes?!"
Well...Quote:Originally Posted by Op_Megs
B. Start playing the game like he used to when he had to subvert and take over Arachnos from the inside on his own.
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Grandville
Recluse always knew that pulling his forces to Grandville was a calculated risk. It was the only way to hold his capital, yes, but he was counting on using a huge army to enact a massive show of force by not freeing his city, but also then storming Warburg. This, then, was supposed to cow the rest of the islands into submission. However, with the tenacity of the Warburg Militia causing endless delays and the rest of the islands revolting, it's obvious that this gamble has backfired. It occurs to Recluse that in the shape Arachnos is in, it was really never going to work. With its leader distracted by petty rivalry and always pulling resources away for absurd side projects, Arachnos has grown weak. It's sloppy, corrupt, chaotic and very overstretched. Bases that cost billions to excavate and build are being lost, soldiers are defecting, the coffers are empty and the Byzantine power structure ensures nothing ever gets done. It was just a matter of time before things would go this bad.
Recluse realises that he has been resting on his laurels for far too long, and he has let Arachnos grow fat. So confident was he that he had excess to simply throw away that he never noticed that the losses he was suffering could not be replaced. This has to end. Recluse, the man who played everyone for fools, who took the Rogue Isles right under Marchand's nose, who built his own nation from the ground up, is finally awake and more determined than ever. The world may have forgotten about the might of Arachnos, but they would soon remember, and remember well.
The first order of business is consolidation. Arachnos is badly overstretched, but the recalling of soldiers to Grandville has ensured that that city has a enormous police and military power. This allows Recluse to halt any and all Warburg Militia advances dead on the beach, occasionally even releasing the Arachnoids from the Gutter for good measure. But there are better ways to use the monsters. It becomes obvious very quickly that the Crey Corporation are experimenting on the Arachnoids, finding ways to control them. Rather than attack Crey over this, Recluse plays it smart and invites the Crey Corporation to Grandville to cooperate on the project. This both gives him access to their research and also ensures that Crey representatives are on sight to witness the might of Arachnos. Far from being a failed project, the Arachnoids are poised to become an incredibly potent weapon - a tidal wave of web and claws to swarm over his enemies, then die on cue.
Grandville is placed under martial law and the Arbiters are authorised to carry out summary executions for any infighting. The Master aims to show that he is back in full control, and he alone holds the lives of the his men. They will either fall in line, or they will die. The new, stronger Arachnos has no love for the waste that is infighting. Some leeway is made for the Destined Ones, as they represent a significant investment, but for Arachnos soldiers proper, there is now only order. The Bane Spiders, locked together in their neural net and sharing a hive mind, become Recluse's primary offensive force, as they can be trusted. This martial law has effectively eradicated all Longbow forces from the island. Malta forces and their Knives of Artemis assassins have proven much more difficult to shift, but they have been driven down to the Gutter and topside permieter defences ensure they can never breech Spider City grounds.
With his last few attempts to use the Web to syphon off all super powers in the world complete failures, Recluse has ordered Korol to modify the Web so that it syphons only a tiny fraction of power from the rest of the world, small enough that no individual hero or villain would notice, but large enough to add up for a significant power boost of Recluse himself and his lieutenants. Having seen the future his Operation: Destiny and foreseen a struggle with the Destined One who will bring that future about, Recluse knows that he will need all the extra power he can secure. The Destined One must be strong enough to matter, but he or she MUST die, and Recluse is the one who has to see to that personally.
Additionally, taking a page out of Lord Nemesis' book, Recluse has has Operative Grillo secure inter-dimensional portals based on Grant Naylor's original research, giving Arachnos access to a number of undeveloped alternate dimensions where resources can be obtained with little struggle. With Sharkhead Island gone, this is what the Grandville industry has turned to in order to keep Recluse's military machine turning. Additionally, these alternate dimensions can often provide raw recruits, as well. Though untrained and usually illiterate, these men can usually be conditioned easily and then plugged into the Bane Spider neural net where the the other soldiers' proficiency can make up for the savages' lack of modern warfare experience.
With men, materials, a secure perimeter and personal power taken care of, Recluse turns to playing his enemies against each other. Frequent raiding of Nemesis outposts on alternate dimensions, with coordinates received from multi-year-long codebreaking efforts and the retrieval of several Arachnos Automatons from the Rikti War Zone, provoke Nemesis from making a full-scale invasion of the Rogue Isles. Recluse is well aware that the Prussian Prince of Automatons has himself been forgotten and is likely poised to do something big, and his provocation is just the catalyst that is required to take even a plotting mind like the Nemesis off the rails.
At the same time, Arachnos soldiers have willingly allowed themselves to be body-snatched by the Circle of Thorns with the express intent of being infiltrated. Upon returning to base, these infiltrators are immediately beset by heavy psychic assaults by the new and improved Tarantula Queen cyborgs, and eventually mind-controlled into becoming double-agents. These brain-washed traitors them return to their covens and incite them into attacking Grandville Island, as well with lies and false promises.
The whole point of this is to create as much chaos as possible below the walls of Grandville and have as many of Arachnos' enemies fighting each other while Recluse prepares his final assault with overwhelming force. All the while the has been happening, a combined army of Crey and Arachnos engineers have been building a fleet of aircraft in secret at the manufacturing facilities of the Fab. These are, however, not actually taken into service, instead being stored in the cavernous empty space below the enclosed canopy. This gives the impression that Arachnos air power has been severely damaged, when in fact dozens more Black Helicopters wait for the command to attack.
Even Aeon Corp is still welcome on the island, despite Dr. Aeon's betrayal. Recluse has chosen to stay in character and pretend as though the loss of the islands was no big deal for him, as though Aeon even did him a favour by ridding him of the "money pit" that was Cap Au Diable. Knowing the good doctor all too well, Recluse counts on Aeon's ego getting the better of him when his achievements are disregarded, and it works. Aeon, adamant about showing Recluse up, demonstrates a series of new inventions. He has ensured that Arachnos scientist cannot steal his designs, but what Aeon has not anticipated is Crey's betrayal of their partnership. Crey Industrial Espionage teams rob Aeon of every patent he brings to Grandville. While Crey make sure to feed only the mediocre inventions back to Arachnos and keep the more lucrative ones for themselves, the Seers of the Fortunata Crey personnel pass by at every door still manage pilfer every secret they carry.
Being a fast learner, Recluse also takes a page out of Tyrant's book, organising his Fortunata Seers and Tarantula Queens into psychic network which covers all of Grandville. While his agents are not as well-trained in psychic espionage as the Seers of Tyrant's network, they are still able to root out defectors, traitors and infiltrators with frightening regularity. And even when Aeon Corps and Crey Industries operatives hide behind psychic dampers, the Web stretched across the entire city still catches it all, serving as a massive amplifier to Recluse's psychics.
With full control of his city, a sizable army of both men and machines, virtually infinite resources, a tap in both Aeon Corps and Crey Industries and his enemies locked in a fight with each other, the only thing keeping Recluse from putting Arachnos back on the map is the result of Operation: Destiny. Once this is concluded - and no matter which way it concludes - the world will remember exactly why it was that everyone feared Arachnos enough to look the other way when Arachnos agents invaded their lands repeatedly. Recluse has learned - and learned on his feet - that you don't need a sprawling, bloated empire to hold tremendous strength in the palm of your hand. All you really need is a strong and cunning leader.
What needs to change about the game:
Um... Almost nothing.
*Swap spawns on the beach area to include Circle of Thorns, Nemesis and Warburg Militia fighting each other, and occasionally Arachnoids fighting one of the above.
*Swap spawns in the Gutter to mostly Arachnoids, occasionally with Malta and Knives fighting the Arachnoids.
*Add as many Black Helicopters to the Fab as the interior space can hold, or at the very least add a few.
That's it. -
Quote:Not true. Arachnos showed up in I6, which included a Cape Mission where a villain is contracted by Arachnos to go to Paragon City - on US soil - cause a disturbance by killing people and destroying property, then engage a licensed hero and take her cape (and it's always Ms Shock for me, for some reason). Issue 7 brought us Mayhem missions, where Arachnos contracts villains to go to Paragon City and engage in a massive frenzy of destruction of property and kidnapping, fight an open war with police and violently rob a bank. Arachnos helicopters included. Issue 8 brought us Safeguard missions, where heroes are tasked to defend a bank from being robbed by one of Recluse's four lieutenants. Yes, oftentimes it's a no-name villain, but if your team is large enough, Ghost Widow, Scirocco, Black Scorpion or Mako could show up. Issue 8 also brought us the revamped Faultline, a zone which is clearly and blatantly being invaded by Arachnos forces arriving on submarines through underground waterways.Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
Prior to the silliness of the Galaxy City/Atlas Park invasion, the only thing that came close to justifying the Longbow invasion is Siren's Call.
Since their very inception, Arachnos have been staging international incidents on US soil. At no point have they really had a leg to stand on to explain or justify these actions, unless we live in the bizarro world of Apocalypse 4 - Judgement where the justice system is clearly evil. I don't want to get into politics, but the modern tales of Iraq and Afganistan would suggest to me that the US wouldn't take getting their cities repeatedly invaded and people killed in massive televised terrorist events lying down.
Night Ward spoilersQuote:Originally Posted by Mad Grim
I think I've found something I dislike almost as much as the Well: Talons of Vengeance. They were cool the first three times they showed up, but for supposed heralds of the end times they sure do show up an awful lot.
The Talons of Vengeance, as introduced in First Ward and Dark Astoria are one of the dumbest villain groups we've had in the game, for the simple fact that they're a transparently evil group of card-carrying villains. Their ability to corrupt IS an interesting angle, but aside from Cerulean and Katie Douglass, it's really not explored to any real extent. Until Night Ward. Night Ward is the place that ALMOST gave these women an actual, real, legitimate backstory. Bear with me a bit.
Coo-coo for Coca Puffs Serene frees Lamashtu, "the mother of all monsters," from the Eternal Prison of Night Ward by a series of ridiculous missions. The entire story has, at this point, forgotten that the Talons of Vengeance are even a thing and they're just being used as faceless goons. The story ends with nary a mention of them. But if you actually take time to read Lamashtu's description, which last I checked wasn't even on ParagonWiki, you'll find something actually quite intriguing.
Lamashtu is the mother of all monsters, and as such is also the mother of the Talons of Vengeance. It's revealed that the Talons were never related to the Furies in the first place and the people's legends of the connection were wrong. This makes Percy Winkley's Doom Chronicles wrong, or at the very least makes him right to point out an inconsistency - the Furies frown on men killing other men as it creates blood feuds that last for generations, yet for the Talons to be appeased, blood must be shed. Why would the Furies do this? Answer: They wouldn't because they didn't. The Talons of Vengeance are not some kind of misplaced instrument of divine justice or some kind of guardians of fate. They aren't even all that interested in "Oathbreakers." They are, quite literally, monsters born of a goddess whose very reason to existence was to bring chaos, death and murder to the world, to serve as the counterpart of Bazuzu, the god of life, order and happy thoughts, rainbows and puppies though I may be misremembering some of that.
Basically what this means is the Talons of Vengeance have an entirely different origin story, and for as much simpler as that one is, it's also CONSIDERABLY less stupid. They are, in a sense, no different from the Devouring Earth - basic monsters driven by hatred and bloodlust who infect others with their condition and thus spread their numbers. The Talons of Vengeance are not an "enemy," they are a disease, born to spread throughout the world and destroy all life. As such... They actually make for pretty solid villains.
It's just a shame that none of this is actually part of an actual story! Three times these women show up and the only depth they're given exist in the description of a character who shows up as clickable ONCE? Talk about a missed opportunity. -
Right now, I'd have to say a new villain zone. I'm not really sure what the level range would be, but it would probably represent a stark contrast to the others in the Isles. I'll have to add this to my "Retaking the Rogue Isles" thread at the end.
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Quote:Those are actually not that hard to change. Consider what they are:Originally Posted by Tymers_Realm
I'm just concerned about some of the contact Storylines in Cap. Mainly Marshal Brass & Wheeler's Arcs. While Wheeler's Arc isn't the greatest, it does have some fun stuff to it and you get some good action through it as well. And Brass's Arc is a solid way of getting Ouro access in the teens. (Beyond someone opening up a portal). As well as giving back story on that crazy Prof.
Marshal Brass' arc has to do with finding out exactly what Dr. Aeon is doing and the stopping Amanda Vines from broadcasting it. Why? "Because Arachnos would have my head. Literally." Now change this to Marshal Brass trying to prove that Dr. Aeon was behind the demon attack which killed his men that got blamed on HIM. Finding the Goldbricker pack proves the Goldbrickers didn't just "come to the rescue," but Aeon's been working with them for a long time. The rest is Brass trying to stick it to Aeon. Now flip the last mission around and have Aeon himself order you to shut down the transmission and Brass offering a secret embezzled trust fund if you'd let it go through so Aeon can be exposed for the fraud that he is. It fails because "jammers," and then Brass moves on to trying to figure out if Professor Echo can't be used to as leverage against Aeon since he has a grudge against the man. Yeah, it does involve changes to the arc, but only in a few spots to alter the written text. The arc's mission structure can remain the same.
As for Willy Wheeler, his arc is even simpler. Willy pretends to be a bigshot and is trying to impress Aeon instead of Arachnos. This time, instead of fighting Arachnos forces from time to time, you end up fighting Goldbrickers. The trip to Paragon City could have to do with raiding a meeting between Aeon Corp and Crey instead of an Arachnos base hidden in the US. The changes become more substantial in terms of workload, I don't deny it, but at least the logic is pretty simple - swap any mention of "Arachnos" for "Aeon" unless the change wouldn't make sense.
I don't aim to diminish Arachnos as a significant threat, I just mean to bring it a little more in-line with all the other threats of the Isles. And you have to remember - I still haven't gotten to Grandville. That's still Arachnos' capital and the largest city of the Rogue Isles, and it's well and truly in Recluse's hands, even if it's under siege. As you'll notice, I've left Arachnos soldiers in almost all the islands leading up to that. What I want to do with this is to keep building up Arachnos as a threat until the player reaches Grandville and Bane Spiders open up, when the REAL might of Arachnos is revealed. Johnny Sonata or Emil Marcone might control cities, but Recluse BUILT a city (on top of another city) and he still has a frighteningly large army locked away inside. The point of recalling all Arachnos forces back to the capital is to ensure that Recluse can exercise an overhwelming show of force when he's ready to move, and not risk his break-out attack being countered.Quote:Originally Posted by Olantern
My personal biggest criticism: It diminishes Arachnos from a significant threat, judging by its in-game presence, to "the Council in spider outfits." I realize that most forumites have this attitude toward it, anyway, and goodness knows the Rogue Isles would be more realistic under some more haphazard political structure, but I doubt everyone agrees.
I'm not going to "ruin" Arachnos, don't worry
I'd actually have to think about that much more seriously. I generally don't like bringing dead characters back to life as it cheapens the drama and tragedy around death and it just seems cheap. I HAVE brought characters of mine back from the dead, but the restoration turns them into completely different kinds of characters. A person might be revived in the body of a cyborg, or he might return but as a disembodied spirit, that sort of thing. Psyche does have an easy "out" from which she could bounce back so her side is easy, but if I were bringing back States, he wouldn't be the costumed paragon he once was. I might give him a face-heel turn, or I might turn him into more of a mentor figure, or I might give him some form of changed personality looking for the meaning of an endless struggle against an enemy who can never truly be defeated.Quote:Originally Posted by Zemblanity
Hey Sam, if you do get hired by PS, will you please use your superpowers to bring States, Miss L. and Sister Psyche back and write them a few story arcs worth playing? Thanks in advance
Basically, though, I wouldn't just hit the "rewind" button. For as much as I hate the way both of them died - and I do - I try to work with the story as much as I can, even the stuff I don't like. I've often spoken about "payoff," and if the Statesman's Death can be given some kind of important meaning, then it might transform into a better story itself.
Yeah, about that - I already did the Mercy chapter, but Haetron here is right - it's not necessary. I'm not changing the status quo, so none of my changes are really worth all that much, but to make Arachnos just that little bit less so cocksure of themselves. I had to do it, though, lest my makeover be incomplete. Grandville is still to come.Quote:Originally Posted by Haetron
Sam, I honestly think with Mercy, the only thing you'd need to change is the outgoing dialogue that sends you to Port Oakes. And the war of words between the two arbiters. Mercy -just- got a revamp with freedom that puts the villains in front of arachnos. I mean, if you want to revamp it just for fun, then go for it, but honestly, I think Mercy is the one redside zone that doesnt need it. -
Quote:I'm working from the standpoint that Arachnos itself is failing. Based on Recluse's terrible management of the Rogue Isles, I've always seen Arachnos as living on borrowed time. Infighting between Arachnos agents is not just tolerated but encouraged, the Rogue Isles are in terrible condition when it comes to infrastructure so they can't be generating that much economic power and there are only so many bases you can "afford to lose" before you start running out. Recluse is throwing money away on vanity projects that consistently fail to pay off, he's throwing men away to "test" the Destined ones, he's throwing facilities and equipment away because it's OK, and now he's throwing massive amounts of resources into several ongoing wars at once. A large continental power with a massive loyal population and working industry would struggle to cope with this, and after seven years, Arachnos really ought to be on its last leg.Originally Posted by DeviousMe
While I can't really see Arachnos being shaken up like this without someone taking out Recluse (or at least his lieutenants; sure, the big man has all the power of Tartarus, but he's still just one guy and can't be killing people everywhere at once), I have to say I really do like some of these ideas - especially the rework of Sharkhead.
Say what you will about Tyrant, but the man knows how to run a country, and even he's going down in flames. If Emperor Cole can't keep his citizens loyal and his industry intact with what amounts to a docile society of sheep and clean police state, what's left for Recluse who's bleeding money, men and materials left and right and who does absolutely nothing to endear himself either to his subordinates or to his people. From its very inception, I've seen Arachnos as nothing more than a tool for Recluse, an organisation he cares nothing for, and which he is literally throwing away on his own personal vendetta against the Statesman and against Paragon City in particular. Sooner or later, the coffers have to run dry and either Recluse institutes some kind of social reform to turn the Rogue Isles into a functioning state, or he bails and lets what's left of Arachnos fall apart.
That said:
---
Mercy Island
With Arachnos losing control of virtually all other island cities of the Rogue Isles, one would think that their hold on Mercy Island - tenuous as it was to begin with - would have long since broken. Surprisingly enough, despite the downturn, Mercy Island remains firmly in Arachnos hands. The reason for this is actually ironically simple - there's no-one on Mercy Island who has both the guts and the resources to threaten Arachnos' domination of the island. Longbow have come close several times, granted, and indeed they still hold Fort Darwin, but the walls of the City of Mercy still stand firm and the Arachnos garrison inside is in no danger of being taken over. This lack of initiative is not so much due to the local population not wanting Arachnos out. However, with the constant influx of cutthroat villains from Paragon City, there is quite literally no way for anyone to plan anything without some errant villain catching wind and interfering. With the "Destined Ones" sticking their noses everywhere, a planned rebellion is quite impossible.
That's not to say that all is sunshine and rainbows for Arachnos on Mercy Island, of course. With the recalling of standing forces back to Grandville, the Mercy City has found itself badly undefended. Infected crawl out of the sewers constantly and and with Arachnos taking a hands-off approach, it falls to the Rogue Isles Police to deal with the incursions. This is made harder by a recent epidemic of Skulls, whose numbers have swollen in light of the Arachnos withdrawal from the city streets. The one silver lining of the Infected infestation is that at least these ghoulish people have managed to all but drive the snakes out of the Mercy City sewers, and push them back down into Port Darwin where they can be Longbow's problems. With the Skulls on a recruitment drive, the Hellions have also been driven out of the city limits to fight for survival in the destruction down below.
Battle lines are already being drawn. While Arachnos soldiers have retreated from Mercy City's streets, they mounted defence turrets on the city walls make a direct assault by even Longbow Chaser and Eagle squads incredibly costly, a lesson Longbow have had to learn the hard way. Taking fire from Arachnos mounted defences and suffering constant attacks by both Snakes and Hellions in the maelstrom of the devastated suburb, Longbow forces have fallen back to the ourskirts of Fort Darwin itself, where they've chosen to hold a perimeter at the point's narrowest section. This gives them a good defensive position, but at the same time leaves the rest of the island completely unpoliced.
Scrambling for standing structures, the Hellions have occupied the entire Western shore of the island, taking control of the various warehouses and silos, as well the water treatment plant. The buildings there both give them shelter and represent a good defensive position as their foundations are raised off the ground below on sheer walls. In addition, the plant also has access to the whole city's sewer system, allowing the Hellions a way back into the city if they can manage to avoid being swarmed by the Infected who live there. The snakes, by contrast, have moved back to their old burrows towards the South-East of the island, hiding underground among the ruins of old buildings.
The Legacy Chain, not entirely satisfied with Longbow's decision to pull back, have been seen working to secure clock tower. The old masonry wall around the structure keeps the courtyard relatively safe, with only the narrow entrances on both ends as access points which can be mined with mystic traps. The tall watchtower should provide a vantage point for Longbow snipers should Fort Darwin decide to send help out, but Longbow are afraid that Arachnos might simply fire rockets at the clocktower if they suspected it was being used. Despite being a strong position, it is also exposed to Snakes and Hellions on all sides and has no stable supply line to the main Longbow force at the Fort.
Though troubled, the island of Mercy isn't any worse than it has ever been. Mercy City is teeming with Snakes and overrun with Hellions, with the RIP in constant battle with both, but then that's not distinctly different from how Mercy City has was before. Arachnos' curious absence doesn't really trouble many - they didn't do jack squat to keep the peace before, so at least now the honest criminals don't have to worry about being bullied by "police," especially with the RIP as shorthanded as they are. Yes, the "Destined Ones" are a huge menace, but they're easy enough to avoid if you just keep your head down and don't make eye contact. And as far as the people of Mercy are concerned, what happens outside the walls of the city is someone else's business. For all they care, the Snakes, Hellions and Longbow can go ahead and kill each other already.
Nobody really lives outside the city walls any more, and the town "mayor" long since gave up rebuilding the lower suburbs. The money ran out a long time ago and workers were constantly being attacked by Sankes, Hellions, the Destined Ones or even Arachnos forces themselves looking for someone to bully. Now it's no-man's land, and the people of Mercy City are more than happy to leave it that way. So long as the city holds, that's all that matters.
What needs to happen to the game
*Move almost all Arachnos spawns back to Fort Darwin. If necessary, move the Quartermaster, Trainer and welcoming contact.
*Mount low-level Turrets on the Mercy wall similar to what's around Grandville. In fact, since they don't need to shoot at anyone, they can be just static props like in the old Rikti Crash Site or FBS.
*Swap spawns in Mercy Island with mostly RIP, Rip fighting Infected or Rip fighting Skulls. Occasionally, have spawns of Skulls either rallying or bugging someone, and spawns of Infected lying down being sick.
*Move all Hellion spawns to the Eastern shore of Mercy Island and have them only show up on the high ground around the intact buildings. Specifically, they need to have a presence under the shadow of the huge crude oil tank overlooking the little warehouse where Dr. Creed's old mission to kidnap homeless people took place. The Hellions are supposed to rule that turn, right?
*Move almost all Snake spawns to the South-East of Darwin's Landing and essentially restrict them to mostly showing up around eithe bare earth or rubble piles or among broken-down buildings.
*Move all Longbow spawns to Fort Darwin and the area immediatly below it where protestors used to gather. Have them the line just forward of where Matthew Burke used to be, with Longbow soldiers blocking the streets.
*Have Legacy Chain forces spawn only in the area underneath the clock tower where Hardcase used to be before he grew shorter and where Dr. Creed used to be the most recently. The mission with the wards on the ground can take place there.
That's about all I can think of. -
Quote:Yikes! Better hurry up and finish this so I can run away, then!Originally Posted by .Viridian.
Careful. Dr. Aeon keeps an arsenal of melee weapons near his desk for just such occasions.
Wow, seriously? Thank you. I didn't really thing anything was going to come up with it. I've just been complaining on the subject for a while and I figured it's probably a good idea to put my money where my mouth is and actually put in the work to flesh it out. It's easy to say "Oh, make the Rogue Isles but without Arachnos!" but it's actually quite a bit of work to come up with reasonable ways for this to happen that could make sense to happen over a period of time.Quote:Originally Posted by .Viridian.
Seriously, though, bookmarking this thread. Don't have time to read it all right now, but there are some interesting ideas here.
*Obligatory statement not guaranteeing anything here*
I know a lot of what I'm saying isn't really reasonable from a development resources perspective, but I'll do what I can. I still have Mercy and Grandville to go, and Grandville was specifically requested
-
Quote:Why not? That's a good point. It'd save on art resources even more to just replace one door and possibly stick on a few signs, plus it makes the Giza an even MORE attractive place to visit. I like it!Originally Posted by ImpulseKing
Why not make the Icon a door inside the Giza? The ultra-rich that can contract those services will be bored while recovering from surgery after all.
So what's left? We have Port Oakes, Cap Au Diable, Nerva Archipelago, Sharkhead Island and St. Martial Island. What's left is Mercy and Grandville, and those I kind of want to leave in Arachnos' hands. We'll see how I can do that and still shake things up a bit. -
St. Martial
Unlike the rest of the Arachnos "provinces," Sr. Martial Island is not some kind of run down rathole populate by the poor and downtrodden who resent their Arachnos overlords. Well, the denizens of The Hard Way might, but who cares about those thugs? No, the people of Jackpot are all too happy to pay the pittance Arachnos charges in tax even now that taxes are the highest they've ever been. The high-rollers of St. Martial Island are more than wealthy enough to afford this. Chief among them is Johnny Sonata, whose Golden Giza has never been more profitable, especially considering the man owes his very survival to the intricate and complicated wards that Arachnos' Mu Mystics have placed around his fortress of a casino and hotel complex. The man is far too smart to bite the hand that feeds him, especially when he essentially has all of the Family on St. Martial Island in his pocket?
Or does he? Basse Croupier has recently discovered some disturbing evidence suggesting Lord Nemesis himself has gotten his hands on the Family, possibly decades ago, before Johnny was even famous. Normally this would be Family business handled on the down-low. Gang wars and police investigations are bad for tourism. However, it's becoming very clear that Nemesis is starting to have bigger ideas than just embezzling money from the cartel to use for his own ends. People have been going missing, automatons have turned up in place of certain consigliere and there are rumours of a planned coup. Nemesis, it transpires, really is planning to set the Family up and manipulate him into taking St. Martial island for him. Well, two can play at that game.
Johnny is no fool. He has seen the news and he has his own sources. It's clear to him that Arachnis is facing hard times, and the Arachnos soldiers in St. Martial know this. Every day more are recalled to die at the walls of Grandville and it's pretty clear they don't want to go. Who would, when they could instead spend a night hitting the slots and then drinking like a fish? So, moving first, that's exactly what Johnny Sonata offers them - abandon Arachnos, assume control of the St. Martial Island fortifications and elect him as permanent governor. In exchange, the men will get unlimited credit at the Casino (with interest, of course), lodgings in the best hotels around Jackpot and even a steady paycheck. Nothing around the island has to change, Johnny insists, except that Recluse no longer calls the shots. In fact, as far as the regular citizens of St. Martial Island are concerned, no change has taken place. No reason to be alarmed.
Well, that doesn't exactly go to plan. Johnny, you see, is still in hot water. Lord Recluse still holds the contract for his soul, a retrieval that will take a special kind of contract to carry out. Nemesis, not being one to take defeat lying down, broadcasts Johnny's secret deal with the Arachnos soldiers, throwing people into a panic and forcing a change of plans. A new nation of St. Martial is announced out of necessity, with Johnny Sonata as its president and a large contingent of Arachnos forces serving as the public face of his new regular armed force. Black and red uniforms give way to simpler grey uniforms, but access to the large cache of weapons and other technology left over at the Double Dawn makes these men a sizable threat. Johnny's more questionable business partners in the Family are often seen assisting the new St. Martial Army, but they still prefer to work covertly and keep out of the limelight. After all, with "Arachnos" now serving Johnny, their illicit operations can continue uninterrupted while someone else entirely can take the heat for the extortion and murder side of things.
With Arachnos taxes gone and lodging costs slashed to nearly nothing, tourism in St. Martial booms. The Carnival of Shadows, once just a travelling circus pitching tents temporarily, now find they have a much greater choice of victims. Their numbers grow as the Carnival becomes settled in. Originally being welcomed for their carnal talents and used as covert assets by the Golden Giza, the Carnival quickly become more trouble than they're worth as their chaotic and destructive tendencies begin to cause real damage to the worst possible aspect of St. Martial Island - its reputation as a great tourist destination. As more young women go missing and more young men are found dead, the Carnival become a problem that the St. Martial Army is forced to tackle head on. But storming the Carnival circus proves to be a losing venture as even trained Fortunatas end up forgetting why they went there, spending a few days watching shows, then joining the Carnival.
To maintain some semblance of peace, Carnival performers are allowed to host shows within the grounds of the circus, but forbidden from leave its premises. This doesn't work very well, seeing Carnival Mistresses battling against Crab Spider Webmasters across the streets of the island become commonplace among the poorer neighbourhoods.
With the Carnival raising a ruckus, the Wailers soon see an opportunity to step up their attacks. They push against St. Martial Arachnos forces daily until, after a major joint operation by both St. Martial Army and Family forces, the caves and sewers below St. Martial are cleared for the little screeching demons and they are pushed back to the Hard Way and the Flop and, crucially, out of Jackpot where the tourists leave. This has the unfortunate implication of pushing them into territory held by the Freakshow and the Devouring Earth, who are in turn displaced all over the rest of the city, causing chaos wherever they go.
The Freakshow, being kicked out of their usual stomping grounds, migrate to industrial and largely run-down area of the Black Mariah where they already have a presence. Arriving in numbers, this sees the Freakshow move in on Tsoo territory, causing massive gang wars across the entire area. Luckily, no-one important or rich lives at the Black Mariah, so Johnny is all too happy to let both groups of unrefined thugs kill each other if it frees up his forces to deal with the Wailers.
The Devouring Earth, in turn, are forced out into the forested area of Fortune's Wheel, where they come into conflict with both the Circle of Thorns trying to migrate to the area and the Carnival of Shadows in the circus to the North. This serves to limit the spread of the Carnival and take some pressure of the Sr. Martial Army, though it seems to have upset the Circle greatly, causing them to launch night time attacks on Jackpot itself.
In the meantime, the Golden Giza remains open for business. Set so far above the waterline and out of the way as it is, little danger ever comes close, though Wailer sightings at the Hard Way across the bay are becoming a more frequent occurrence. Almost the entire force of the St. Martial Army's contingent of Mu Mystics have, consequently, positioned around the perimeter of the Golden Giza, in reality to reinforce the wards which keep the Wailers at bay, and in terms of publicity as a testament to safety of the casino complex.
Under pressure from the Wailers, the local Facemaker has run out of business. It makes no sense to buy a new face if a Wailer is waiting just outside to tear it off. Instead, Johnny Sonata has gone out of his way to demonstrate the legitimacy of his island by contracting Icon itself to open St. Martial's very own branch of the business. Now even the heroes of Paragon City can come to St. Martial on holiday and make use of the states-sponsored Icon facilities. Deals are currently undergoing with Wentworth's Fine Consignments in regards to opening a new branch there, but no agreement has been reached. Wentworth's representatives have alleged to the existence of a "black market" on the island which, selling items from the many Wentworth's shipments stolen in the area. Until St. Martial authorities can provide assurance that they are not only not condoning this practice but are taking steps to shut it down, Wentworth's Fine Consignments do not see opening a St. Martial branch as economically viable.
In the end, little has changed about St. Martial Island. Johnny Sonata is still in charge, the rich are still enjoying a decadent life and the poor are still kicked to the sides and tossed in the gutter where they can struggle for survival out of sight of the rich tourists looking for a paradise vacation. The tension around the island is still high. Hardcase's workload holding the Wailers back AND dealing with the Circle's demon summoining AND the Carnival's soul-sucking has never been higher, and outside the city limits of Jackpot, battles rage constantly... But you wouldn't know that, sipping a Martini from your expensive penthouse suite or getting swindled out of your money at the Blackjack table. Just, ah... Don't listen to the talking slot machine. That one's just a tourist trap right there.
What needs to happen to the game
*Swap Arachnos forces in the area to the Frotunata Grey of the Rogue Arachnos. Have regular street spawns show up without My Mystics, then arrange said Mu Mystics along the fence of the Golden Giza, floating just a foot off the edge over the water.
*Swap all spawns in Jackpot to either the St. Martial Army doing partrols and fighting the various enemy factions (CoT, Carnival, Wailers, DE) or Family spawns burying bodies and giving people cement shoes.
*Swap all spawns in The Hard Way and The Flop to Wailers.
*Mobe all Freakshow and Tsoo spawns to the Black Mariah and depict them either fighting each other or doing what the gangs normally do - the Freakshow faff about playing with junk and the Tsoo warship their Ancestor Spirits.
*Populate Fortune's Wheel with spawns of Circle of Thorns battling Devouring Earth monsters in the wooded area, but leave the circus area as is.
*Leave Double Dawn spawns as they are, just replace them with the new St. Martial Army of grey Arachnos Soldiers.
*Either replace the zone's Arbiter with a new Family member or representative of the casino, or simply rename him to a St. Martial Army Representative. Leave the Fortunata Fateweaver as is. She's already wearing a grey uniform.
*Shut down the Facemaker store, but leave its interior intact, just empty of NPCs. Introduce a new Icon building somewhere in the middle of Jackpot.
That's really all I think needs to be done. -
Ah, I see. So you're essentially describing Alien X of Ben 10: Alien Force fame. It's an incredibly powerful entity that nevertheless fails to act because the consciousnesses that make it up cannot reach consensus. That's not a bad idea for the well, but I still think it fails to address what is the MAJOR problem with the Well in City of Heroes - it's represented as either the source of all power, or otherwise a source of power greater than that of ANY other source. So long as the greatest power in existence comes from the Well, we have a problem. Ascendants solve this by shifting the source of great power from "that one plot point" to the much more nebulous "inner self" of characters, which is very easy to explain as being a much wider variety of concepts.
I do agree, however, that the Well of the Furies being comprised of a miasma of conflicting intelligences is a good way to give the concept some much-needed depth. Because right now, the Well is not any more complex than the Talons of Vengeance - it's just an amoral entity that seeks to control others with promises of tainted power. It suffers from the central problem of transparently evil villains, in that that's not a personality. It's a character archetype, but it's presumed that there would be an actual character in there to make it interesting. Instead, the Well of the Furies is just the hollow shell of an idea given no substance.
This can be fixed. -
Here are a couple of issues I forgot:
Cap Au Diable
*Replace all Arachnos Quartermasters with Aeon Corps employees. Possibly a new character model from the character creator, but it's high time we gave those guys their own dress code.
*Relocate all of the new Aeon Corps employees away from where the current Quartermasters are and reposition them around Aeon City and New Haven. Have the Mutation one be on the opposite side of town from the government building and have the Magic and Natural ones down in New Haven.
Nerva Archipelago
*Replace all Arachnos Quartermasters with Crey Industries business relations officials.
*Retrofit Operative Ruthger into a Crey Agent. Swap his Arachnos uniform for a Crey MIB suit, give him slicked-back black hair and shades. His arc is almost entirely focused on being AGAINST Longbow so swapping his allegiances isn't a big problem.
And now we return you to your regularly-scheduled programming:
---
Sharkhead Island
The losses of Port Oakes and Cap Au Diable and the the withdrawal of Arachnos forces from Nerva Archipelago puts the power of Arachnos in question. Kirk Kage is often caught discussing a dangerous question with his executives: What, exactly, are Arachnos doing for him on Sharkhead? They're supposed to keep the peace, and yet the Family runs the docks, clogging them up with contraband and routinely embezzling from shipping profits, Freakshow run rampant and have actually founded a fort, Council and Sky Raider forces have dug in around the mine, and the Scrapyarders... If Kirk Kage had his way, he'd have had Scrapyard "disappeared," then held a mock funeral, given everyone a bonus of company money then given them a day off to drink it all back to him in the company cantina. But no, Mako had to "make an example" of the man and so gave the Scrapyarders both a cause and an unkillable persistent leader to constantly rile them up into open revolt.
Well, OK, there is ONE thing Arachnos are good for - collecting taxes. With Grandville under siege and taxes from the other islands drying up, the remaining Arachnos skeleton crew on Sharkhead has been demanding higher and higher taxes and taking a much bigget cut of the Red Coral. For doing nothing. It doesn't take an economics genius to figure out that that's just bad for business. Action must be taken, but the Cage Consortium 9-5 mall cops aren't up to the task. So Kirk does what any self-respecting CEO would do and enacts some corporate restructuring by firing his entire security staff and contracting mercenaries from the mainland. And he contracts them for a very specific reason - the armed takeover of Sharkhead Island. With Arachnos forces as overstretched as they are across the island, they stand no real chance of holding their installations against veteran soldiers in large numbers.
Having seen the fate of the Arachnos garrisons of Port Oakes and Cap Au Diable, the Sharkhead Arachnos garrison doesn't even put up a fight. As soon as they detect a large force of Cage Mercenaries paradropping onto the island and begin taking strategic positions, the Arachnos soldiers hop onto their Black Helicopters and evacuate. Not to Grandville where they'll be shot for desertion, no, but for the mainland where they hope to go to ground. These men are NOT interested in being pinned down and picked off one by one. The remaining few soldiers who missed the evacuation swiftly surrender and plead with Cage to take them into his employ, instead. These join the ranks of the Cage Consortium's new military police.
The bloodless takeover of Sharkead Island worries the Family. Local cartel rulers, fearing that they too will follow Emil's fate of being in Sebastian Frost's pocket, send Lorenz Ansaldo to Kirk Cage's own residence to negotiate, partly as a gesture of good will and partly as a sacrificial lamb. But Kirk is no warmonger. He's a businessman, and a protracted civil was is bad for business. His offer is simple - the Family can run the docks freely and ship anything they want through them, provided Cage Consortium shipments are never messed with and never delayed. Essentially, the Family get free, no-questions-asked reign over Port Recluse, but only on the condition they police themselves and deal with the Scrapyarders. Because if Crey Military Police forces have to get involved, they will be shooting on sight. The Family, wisely, choose the carrot instead of the stick and become the Cage Consortium's silent partners.
With both Family and Cage Military Police patrolling Port Recluse, the Freaksho's ramshackle village becomes essentially sealed off from most of the island, but Kirk doesn't actually choose to move on the fort itself. Casualties would be too costly for what it's worth considering the Freakshow are a nuisance at best, who could actually be used. The Crush's ground level is infested with the Golems that threaten the Hell Forge. By pressing cutting the Freakshow away from Port Recluse, their violence is directed towards the Golems. A reward offered for the Red Coral at the heart of the Golems is just the incentive to get the Freaks embroiled with the monsters, and once the fight becomes "personal," then two problems solve each other. The Freakshow no longer threaten Port Recluse and are instead doing wonders for keeping Golem numbers down.
The Council's static fortifications so close to the Pit remains a problem for Cage. While Council forces aren't specifically targeting his operations, their soldiers are still using his men for target practice and stealing his shipments. To combat this with Cage Military Police would be to involve the consortium into a very costly war of attrition, and that's bad for business. Instead, working through Lt. Heathcliff Chalmers, Cage is able to hire the Sky Raiders into carrying out several seemingly minor operations against Council positions in the area, knowing that the Council's sense of pride will not allow them to take this lightly. Unsurprisingly, the Council retaliate by attacking Sky Raider operations in the area in minor skirmishes. As a means of escalating the conflict, Cage Military Police commandos set explosives at the base of the Sky Raider rig at night shortly following a Council operation, leaving the Raiders to assume it a Council operation, causing them to respond in full force. From there, the conflict spirals out of hand until both factions are too busy fighting each other to mess with the Pit's operations.
All is not good news for the Cage Consortium, however. Still defiant of her father, she is horrified of seeing him take such full control of Sharkhead Island. And so is the Circle of Thorns. Their ongoing research into the Leviathan of Merulia requires large numbers of sacrifices, and with Cage Military Police and Family forces occupying the island, this really can't happen. Having inherited her father's knack for finding unconventional solutions to problems, it's Crash's idea to push against the Family instead of fighting Crash Military Police directly. The CMP are hardened veterans, and they get paid well. They'll fight like demons. The Family, on the other hand, are under Kirk's thumb after he makes them an offer they can't refuse. Kirk promised them full reign over the city, but what if he can't deliver on that promise? What if the Circle were to push against the Family and at the same time infiltrate their ranks as a means of turning them against Kage? That would surely work. And the best place to push would be Villa Requin. Trouble there would sting the most as this is where the Family big fish call home, and you don't attack a person at his home.
And it would have worked, were it not for Diviner Maros whose pans don't always coincide with the larger objectives of the Circle of Thorns. He is the one who "lets slip" what the Circle are doing to a random villain, and word soon filters over to Kirk Cage. Thinking fast, Kirk appeals to the one person on the island who can help him in this matter - the spirit of the Mu Mystic Tarixus. Several former Arachnos Mu Mystics now in the Cage Consortium's employ confer with the spirit and offer as tribute the information gathered by Leslie Kirland - now working for Cage - on the nature of the beast under the island. It is Maros' idea to deliver this information to the Banished Pantheon cultists at Potter's Field via a "failed" raid which will have sacrificial soldiers carrying the information on them. This potential for massive devastation will surely cause the two groups of sorcerers fight each other over it. The idea of risking literally the entire island, if not the entire world, doesn't sit well with Kirk Cage, who works to reason with the Spirit, but Tarixus is not one who is easily dissuaded. And being intangible, there's really not much Kirk can do against him with just a handful of My defectors.
At the end of the day, this leaves Sharkhead Island held together by uneasy alliances and various faction vendettas held in a state of deadlock. Kirk Cage has gambled everything that his machinations will hold out, but if any of those balance points were to slip, the entire island would be thrown into turnmoil that even the Cage Military Police would not be able to hold. Will Kirk Cage follow the same fate as the Arachnos occupiers he had expelled before?
What needs to happen to the game:
For as much as I've written above... Not TOO much.
*Remove the Cage Security Guards from the game entirely. They're a copy of the RIP and the bank security guards anyway. Replace them with the 20-30 PPD, with uniforms tinted brown with Cage insignias. I'm referring to the SWAT Officer, Ghost, Equaliser, Sergeant and Grenadier. Call them "Cage Military Police.
*Replace all Cage Consortium Guards spawns with Cage Military Police spawns, most specifically around the Hell Forge and the Cage Residence.
*Remove all Arachnos spawns from the zone and replace them with Cage Military Police. Specifically, have both Arachnos forts held by CMP forces.
*Slightly alter Port Recluse spawns to exclude Arachnos and consist of Family extorting people, CMP patrolling the streets, Family fighting with Scrapyarders and Scrapyarders protesting. Have only occasional Circle of Thonrs spawns conducting rituals on civilians and Family members.
*Move spawns around the Crush and the Freakshow fort to consist of either Golems or Golems fighting the Freakshow outside and the Freaks lounging around inside their fort.
*Alter spawns around Villa Requin to consist almost entirely of Family, Family fighting Circle of Thorns and Circle of Thorns performing rituals on the Family.
*Alter spawns around the Pit. Leave the interior the same, but have the exterior comprise mostly fights between the Council and the Sky Raiders... Actually, kind of like it is now.
*Alter the spawns around Potter's Field to exclude the Freakshow and feature just battles between Circle and Banished Pantheon forces.
*Swap the zone's Arbiter with either Kirk Cage himself, or otherwise a new character entirely, a leader of the Sharkhead Island Family cartel.
*Swap the zone's Fortunata with a Hero Corps Field Agent in a Crey uniform. Imply that Cage is cooperating with the Crey Corporation in a very limited fashion.
*Swap the Arachnos Quartermasters with Crey Corporation sales agents. Explanation same as above.
*Swap Leo Vargass and Kirkland from Arachnos Agents into Cage Consortium Officials. Swap references to "Arbiter Leery" from Vargass' story with references to Vince Dubrovski trying to muscle in on his responsibilities. Kirkland's story shouldn't need much changed about it since there's very little about it that's specific to Arachnos aside from his uniform.
*Swap mentions of Arachnos coming after the Red Coral for references to the Legacy Chain coming after it to tie into Vincent Ross.
That's all I can think of. -
Quote:For now that's a good idea, but I'd wait until we see what becomes of Ascendants. If that plotline comes true, then the Well as a sentient malevolent being would actually be a smart plot point.Originally Posted by Mad Grim
I have now decided to ignore the well as something sentient, I much prefer the unleashing potential thing.
-
Quote:That's actually my biggest problem with how Praetoria is resolved - everything's destroyed, everyone's dead or evacuated and it's all pretty much gone to hell. Granted, I myself have told the story of abandoning a world which was beyond saving, but there seemed to be a lot left on Praetorian Earth that was worth fighting for. You'd think Vanguard and the Heroes, at least, would want to preserve people's homes and whole frikkin' world, instead of bombing it into the ground. I mean... What was the point of that "morality" choice about destroying the Enriche plant and leaving people with nothing to drink until Vanguard could supply water six months later? Because six months later we're abandoning Praetoria anyway. What did that even matter?Originally Posted by Zemblanity
I don't like him, but I would rather bend to his rule than get eaten by a tree.
-
Quote:This is why "Arachnos" should not have been made into a rogue state with a known base of operations acting under nebulous "international law." I remember an old quote from Rick Dakan saying something along the lines of "Yes, we can make two cities, one for heroes and one for villains. But that would be silly!" And it is. What Arachnos should have been is essentially what the Council is - a paramilitary organisation working in secret from within an otherwise legitimate state such that it's impossible to mass-target their agents without hurting innocent people. Having obvious villains out in the open is a VERY hard story to tell that requires a lot of subtlety in writing and a VERY smart villain. Recluse is not a smart villain. He's a bully that has no place posing as a legitimate ruler. He's Cobra Commander in all but name, but at least Cobra Commander had the good sense to hide his bases.Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
The reaction of the US government, to make no military response but instead to "Let Longbow handle it" is completely nonsensical. However, in comic book world nonsense is sometimes the only sense there is, and we've been in comic book world for a few years now.
"International law" should not be a hand-wave plot device. If we're going to go so major as to involve world politics, then we need to involve them in such a way as to make sense, or at the very least explain why they make no sense. Maybe Recluse has paid off someone on the UN council who's stonewalling proceedings to act against him. Maybe he has a spy on the council, maybe he has some way to hold the world at ransom. Once upon a time, "We're still recovering from the Rikti War and we don't want more fighting" might have been sufficient to explain Arachnos existing, but even then it wasn't enough to explain their blatant invasions of US soil, and it's been what? Ten years since that war? I'm thinking the world has sort of recovered from it. And really, "It's crisis! We can't deal with that!" only works if you don't keep sliding the crisis constantly.
A lot of the trouble here comes from CoV's misguided attempt to give heroes and villains a "face." For a time, Longbow was synonymous with "hero" and Arachnos was synonymous with "villain," to the point where the "good vs. evil" fight wasn't one between heroes and villains, it was one between Longbow and Arachnos as proxies for either side. That's why when you go to a PvP zone, heroes zone with Longbow and villains with Arachnos. Jack Emmert and company, I think, truly believed that at the time, people really wanted to belong. One of the big ideas for CoV going forward - and one I warned was BAD even as far back as 2004 - was require player villains to join one of the existing enemy factions, such as the Council or Crey or such. When this proved to be not viable, we defaulted to all villains wanting to serve Arachnos - hence the plot railroad - and all heroes having already been sided with Longbow by default.Quote:Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
With that - 'nuff said. The point stands that despite whatever association Longbow has or doesn't have with NATO, they have never been demonstrated to be any kind of NATO department or official division of NATO. They don't get off the hook as being "peacekeepers" just because they have some unspecified association with NATO in their backstory.
A lot of the problems you're pointing out that have to do with Longbow stem from the fact that Longbow was never supposed to be morally questioned, at least not at inception. They were simply a more generic standby for "heroes in general." Instead of making teams of costumed crime-fighters, you had Longbow show up. Their fiction is just an attempt to give them presence, but Longbow were simply intended to be "the heroes." And because they're so annoying to fight and so damn omni-present in late-game CoV, everybody hates them. I hate them. They look goofy and hog the limelight. But why they're flawed isn't politics or law or morality. Why they're flawed is they were conceived to represent a concept that really was out of place and far too generic and meta-game. -
Quote:Find people's repeated attempts to demonise Longbow to be largely pointless. They do nothing player heroes haven't been seen doing, and while their interference in the War Zone is irritating, that's from the perspective of a Vanguard agent. Yes, Vanguard themselves seem to be officially checked, but I took that storyline to be no different from the "NYPD vs. the FBI" dynamic from Die Hard, plus the only actual "rivalry" starts taking place only once Vanguard soldiers start carrying out contract killings and breaking all sorts of laws. Yes, Wilhelmina Dietrich is a jerk, but at no point in the preceding arcs does she or Longbow actually act to stop Vanguard in any way, they simply carry out operations in parallel with Vanguard. Where, exactly, have Longbow "sabotaged" Vanguard operations outside of Gaussian's arc which presents Vanguard as, essentially, an organisation gone rogue?Originally Posted by SlickRiptide
Speaking of Longbow, they are one of the most egregious examples of poor super group writing. They're an American force invading a sovereign nation? Wave your hands and say "NATO" and now it's okay. They're sabotaging the UN's forces in the RWZ? That's just good old-fashioned rivalry. They're policing Paragon City and pre-emptively attacking and 'arresting' people who aren't doing anything illegal while talking smack about them? That's just good Heroism.
As far as "policing Paragon City," they're an extension of Freedom Corps. They wear Freedom Corps uniforms and represent the armed force of said organisation. Freedom Corps themselves are an organisation founded by Miss Liberty AND THE STATESMAN as a means of coordinating the activities of licensed super heroes. Anything licensed heroes are licensed to do, Freedom Corps is licensed to do, and policing the streets of Paragon City is explicitly permitted.
Longbow is not "Miss Liberty's private army." In fact, outside of some villain-biassed dialogue, you won't really see this mentioned almost anywhere. Yes, it's her solution to her disagreement with granddaddy States, but Longbow is still only a branch of Freedom Corps and still subject to the same restrictions and authority. And while Miss Liberty is given as the benefactor of Longbow, she is never outwardly stated to be its commander.
As far as "invading a sovereign nation" goes, I think it's high time we stopped doing that. You can't keep arguing for the poor little sovereign nation which carries out constant raids against US soil and has standing incursions in multiple places along US territory. I get that that's there to explain "why don't we just nuke the place," but it's not a very good argument. Any government worth its salt would simply look the other way when such an incursion occurs, because Recluse is sure as hell not going to report those incursions. Once UN investigators land in Grandville and hear his "The heroes. Are. DOOMED!" speech on a constant loop on the monitors, they'll turn around, hop on their boats and proclaim his a rogue nation. I mean, how much did it take to OK a full-scale land invasion of Iraq, and Recluse gets away with essentially declaring war on the US but not actually being at war with the US because he's only focusing on a single city?
You can't have it both ways. Either there's a UN worth a crap or there's not. If there's not, anything goes. If there is, then the crap Recluse has been pulling should have turned him into a pariah. He was THERE when the meteorites hit, gloating and punching the Statesman directly into my face. His forces make no attempt to hide their presence. You can't chide Longbow for being a bad hero group and NOT chide Arachnos for being a bad villain group. And I don't mean "evil" bad. I mean "this makes no sense" bad.
I'm only ever going to accept Longbow suffering consequences for their actions if Arachnos suffers the same, and that's not going to happen unless someone actually takes my "Retaking the Rogue Isles" idea seriously, and I highly doubt it. Until such a time as we have consistent rules of international politics, I refuse to accept them as an argument. -
Quote:You had me laughing out loud, I admit itOriginally Posted by Nethergoat
*begin countdown to Sam Tow invading Dr. Aeon's cube at Paragon Studios, defeating him in single combat & taking his paycheck*
Honestly, for this one, I'm not looking to be paid. I know it's unreasonable and I know it won't happen, but it's just something that's been on my mind for so long I just have to put it into concrete terms. -
Quote:Yeah, that's kind of what I'm shooting for. I never really liked the concept of "a city of villains" in general, and found that a sort of mish-mash of small island nations in turmoil would be a much better setting for a villain to ply his trade. Putting all villain zones under the thumb of a single overpowered authority just raises uncomfortable questions like "Why don't they just shut down the Reclimators?" or "Why don't they just bring down the full might of Arachnos?" Putting the local authorities behind the 8ball and giving them their own problems to deal with takes away much of their threat, and thus allows for a villain to be much bolder without having to worry about the law.Originally Posted by Mad_Scientist_JC
I love it. Just the whole idea. Recluse and his empire crumbling around him. His greatest enemy dead at the hands of some two-bit magic thief, and his own power made trivial by the power that so many now wield as Incarnates. The story opportunities would be incredible. Now instead of Arachnos contacts just assuming that you want to be their whipping boy, they could have to beg our villains to help them hang onto what ever bit of control they have left in the isles. Maybe they could work in some Gold Side style choices, be loyal to Arachnos, or backstab them as much as possible.
That said:
Nerva Archipelago
With the rebellions in Port Oakes and Cap Au Diable and the effective loss an entire Arachnos-controlled island, the Rogue Isles are thrown into a panic and even the skeleton crew remaining in Nerva Archipelago is recalled to reinforce existing positions. With the US government taking a "hands off" approach to Rogue Isles incursions as a result of Recluse's continued terrorist activity on US soil, there's no-one to stop Longbow forces from advancing out of Agincourt and attempting to occupy the sovereign nation of Nerva Archipelago. While Nerva's independence which saw Arachnos agents as interlopers may have served as justification for Longbow holding a rapid response force, occupying the island proves to be a mistake, as Longbow occupation forces are met with armed resistance from an unexpected source.
Crey Industries private security has already moved in force and secured virtually the entire archipelago, and they are not interlopers. Crey Security is working under contract for the local Nerva government. Governor Erica Roland has specifically requested assistance from the Crey Corporation as a means of protecting her island from the chaos that is clearly spreading through the rest of the Rogue Islands. In return, Crey have been promised local facilities, state-approved sale of virtually any Crey product that has a viable market and access to the surrounding islands of Primeva and Thorn Isle for undisclosed scientific research. In recognition of the size of the contract, Crey have volunteered to subsidise the Nerva education system, supply international television and take over quality assurance for the local water treatment system, which had been in a sad state of disarray for some time.
After a short-term skirmish that Crey Lawyers will later label a "sad misunderstanding," Longbow forces are forced to retreat back to Agincourt, a property that it transpires Miss Liberty has actually purchased from the local government. This causes an international scandal and Longbow forces are thereafter banned from conducting operations on Nerva soil. Legal proceedings about the viability of this ban as it relates to the uninhabited offshore islands of Primeva and Thorn Isle is still being heavily contested between Crey corporate lawyers and the Longbow legal division, but Longbow forces are no longer welcome on Nerva proper.
However, Crey's involvement with Nerva is not the benevolent act that it appears. Unbeknownst to anyone, Governor Roland has been dead for over a year, and the woman in control of the archipelago is a product of the Revenant Hero project - a clone in the Governor's image and bearing her memories, but under Crey's direct control. With such wide-spread access to local infrastructure, Crey immediately begin disseminating mind control products and subliminal indoctrination, doctoring outgoing communications in order to cut off Nerva from the rest of the world entirely. This represents a major investment, a huge privately-controlled area of land and a large-scale experiment on the effects of mass social conditioning away from the the prying eyes of authorities and heroes.
But all is not good news for Crey. As the remoteness of Nerva helps keep Crey's agenda secret, so the secrecy leaves their local facilities vulnerable to infiltration. Rikti Restructurist agents have caused shocking security breaches and replaced dangerously high-ranking Crey officials, using Crey resources to produce equipment to help their own war effort in the War Zone in Paragon City, as well as Crey science facilities to conduct research into regaining full access to their home dimension. Eventually, the Rikti plan to take Nerva Archipelago right from under Crey's noses and eventually extend that infiltration back into the mainland when Nerva has been sufficiently replaced. While actual Rikti forces are almost never seen in Nerva's populated areas, they have no qualms about conducting brazen daylight operations on the island of Primeva away from the eyes of media.
While Arachnos forces may have been removed from the island entirely, Primeva is still a contested land. Between Longbow forces clashing with Crey and Rikti operatives there on a constant basis and the Devouring Earth infesting the wilderness, the Circle of Thorns have been entirely driven off onto their own Thorn Island. While their old portals peppered throughout Primeva are still such a source of conflict, the Circle are safe in the shadow of the Thorn Tree, but they know full well it's just a matter of time before one of the major players decides to bring the battle there, as well. It is for this reason that the Circle have grown desperate enough to risk summoning Lilithu into this world, and why they have increased their presence on Thorn Island's surface so significantly. Caleb can only hold their enemies at bay for so long, and with so much infiltration going on, possessing any of their rivals and remaining undetected is virtually impossible.
Longbow, for their part, are essentially trapped in their fortress on Agincourt and under constant attack by Rikti armed forces and Crey black ops teams as they struggle to unravel the miasma of betrayals, intrigue and deception, as well as find out exactly why the Devouring Earth so numerous on Primeva have not yet launched spores at Nerva Archipelago and why they're so adamant about defending the island in the first place while at the same time doing little to "convert" it into another Eden.
What needs to change about the game
*Take all Longbow forces out of Nerva's populated islands entirely. Keep Longbow forces only in Agincourt where they can do what they're doing now, and on Primeva where they'll always be clashing with Crey, Rikti and Devouring Earth forces.
*Take all CoT forces out of the whole zone except Thorn Island, then have them show up there in larger numbers. There, they will be seen casting spells at "traps" like what the Legacy Chain use in the mission with the Sea Witch.
*Replace all NPC spawns in Nerva's populated areas with Crey Security agents. Have them do what Longbow are doing now: Help people, pose for pictures and be praised for it. DO NOT have them harass people openly.
*Take all CoT spawns out of Primeva and replace all Primeva spawns with battles between Crey, Longbow, DE and the Rikti in any one of the available configurations.
*Replace the Arbiter of the zone with a new NPC - Governor Erika Roland. Basic model of a woman in a skirt will do. If possible, have her dialogue talk about authorising training as opposed to performing the training herself. Replace the Fortunata in the zone with a Hero Corps representative in a Crey Security uniform, basically a Crey Security Guard called a Hero Corps Field Agent.
*The Shadowy Figure can stay as he is, but he will no longer be working for Arachnos. Captain Demitrovich can stay as she is, but she will no longer be working for Arachnos. Both of those should either work for Crey or otherwise for themselves.
*Move Magus MuDrakhan to nearer an Ornabegan Ruins entrance on Primeva. Append his description to explain that he knows the ruins so well he is able to travel anywhere on Primeva in complete safety, as well as travel to and from the island via means of teleportation gates.
*Swap Tech Nylor to work for Crey instead of Arachnos and have his Shard arc be about Crey taking over a Longbow base in the Shard, as opposed to Arachnos soldiers.
And I'm tapped out. -
Quote:I should have done more, you're correct. I'll go back to that and do more, just later. This was mostly to set up the scene of Arachnos forces being stretched thin. I'll work on the actual zone more in time. And you're right, it IS spelled Port Oakes. I guess I had it wrong all these years. Also:Originally Posted by Kirsten
Sounds brilliant. I'd also like to see a little more about Arachnoids...maybe they try to take Grandville?
Cap Au Diable
Events in Port Oakes send shockwaves throughout the Rogue Isles, but never more so than in Cap Au Diable, the town located farther West on the same island and thus susceptible to land insurgency by Emil Marcone's men. As soon as it's confirmed that that government building in Port Oaks has been occupied, Marshal Leon Brass puts the town under martial law, ordering Dr. Aeon to stay out of the public eye, which Aeon uncharacteristically simply agrees with, retreating into his lab complex. Soon thereafter, a series of Arachnos transmissions from Port Oakes alert Marshal Brass that a massive invasion force of Family hitmen is advancing on Cap Au Diable through the tunnel linking, and are very likely already spilling out into the town. Brass mobilises all available Arachnos units, who then converge on the tunnel exit to find... No-one there.
On cue, power throughout Cap Au Diable shuts down as the PTS goes silent. Immediately the skies turn red and Arachnos forces are beset by hordes of reanimated Clockwork and Gremlins. They hold out at the tunnel entrance until Deathsurge finally arrives and essentially massacres them. Again lights throughout the city come back on, dispersing the Gremlins and deactivating the Clockwork, just in time for a major force of Goldbrickers led by King Midas himself to descend on the ragged Arachnos survivors and take most of them captive, chasing the last remaining forces towards the airport. Dr. Aeon then emerges from his facility and issues a Press Release, stating that Arachnos had attempted to abandon the island and enact a "scorched earth" policy as they retreated by having My mystics summon a demon. Taking credit for averting disaster, Dr. Aeon claims to have stopped the demon with the power of his science and then rallied the Arachnos traitors by enlisting the help of the Goldbrickers, these proud and noble warriors who fought for the little people while Arachnos was still exploiting them.
Following this, Dr. Aeon announces the formation of a new independent nation - the Island or Aeon - with the forces of the Goldbirckers acting as both its military and police. Leon Brass, who has been taken prisoner, is restored to his position as Marshal of the island, now serving as a member of the Goldbrickers. Arachnos has all but been eradicated from the island, aside from a small contingent of diehards who have dug down around the airfield. While the Goldbrickers have succeeded in shooting down their Black Helicopters, the Arachnos soldiers have managed to turn the flyers' main guns to face towards the city and are now using them as static defence emplacements. As the Goldbrickers are all equipped with jet packs, they have no use for an airport, which has led Dr. Aeon to essentially leave the Arachnos stragglers alone as insignificant.
Hearing the news of the hated Aeon being installed as master of the island, the Luddites' go on a rampage as their numbers swell from the many who had been displaced from their homes by the Goldbirckers' thievery. The Luddites push out of their island farm and manage to entirely overrun the Devil's Coat Tails lumber mill, taking it out of service as a half-baked environmental message. As Aeon's access to "free" energy is enough to keep Aeon Island's economy afloat, he sees the lumber mill as obsolete and thus makes no attempt to reclaim it, simply having Goldbricker forces guard the perimeter to ensure the Luddites don't spread further.
It transpires that the demon Aeon blamed for the original blackout is none other than Bat'Zul, and that it was Aeon who released him temporarily and Aeon who forged the transmissions which led Brass' men to gather at the tunnel so preciously close to the PTS and the volcano. However, this is not a stunt without consequences, as Bat'Zul, fed up with being used as Aeon's plaything, reaches out of the mountain and animates Clockwork robots all over the city, causing the PTS exterior and surrounding area to be almost completely surrounded with the things. Goldbricker forces do what they can to keep them at bay, but the area is nevertheless overrun. Bat'Zul's activity has, in turn, escalated the Circle of Thorns' involvement. As they are being hunted down by Goldbricker forces for getting too close to the demon in the mountain, Circle of Thorns forces have instead migrated to the Luddite islands and have begun infiltrating the Luddites by means of body-snatching.
The Circle involvement has given the Luddites unprecedented power. Once mere deluded fools praying for divine intervention, now it appears that their prayers are being answered and magic is helping the Luddites. In truth, this is nothing more than Circle Mages possessing Friars and Crusaders and posing their magic as divine intervention, but this has nevertheless given the Luddites both the numbers and the power to be a major threat.
As if Arachnos and Luddites weren't enough, the Haven area has also become infested with the walking dead of Dr. Vahzilok. It transpires that Dr. Shelly Percy has been trading notes with Dimitri Krylov and using that knowledge to experiment on the Vahzilok, creating numerous zombies that are under no-one's direct control, thus forcing Vahzilok's Mortificators to hunt them down and operate on them. To facilitate this, the Facemaker has relocated her "hospital" to Haven, forced away from the lumber mill by Luddite pressure. This has led to Haven turning into a war zone between the Goldbrickers and the hordes of Vahzilok zombies, thought the Goldbrickers aren't really protecting the citizens so much as guarding the PTS pipeline and taking any opportunity they can have to loot the abandoned homes of zombie victims.
New Haven is considerably more luck. As a primarily residential area, Dr. Aeon has essentially leased this to the Goldbrickers unconditionally, who have turned it into high-class housing for their own rank and file. Goldbricker numbers in New Haven are so dense that really no other faction can so much as set foot without having a dozen sonic rifles shooting to kill. Aeon City itself is also under the control of the Goldbrickers, though here they serve to keep the peace and tend to the affluent members of society who are allowed to live in the "nice" part of Aeon Island. Customs are installed at the ramp leading down to zombie-infested Haven and long queues of people seeking shelters can be seen forming from afar. Some who have lost their homes have taken to sleeping on the ramp itself, just so they don't lose their place in line, but Aeon's scrutiny of potential new residents is strict. He has promised the people to build the city of tomorrow atop the ramparts of Aeon City, and he can't have just any riff-raff spoiling the utopia.
Amidst the chaos on Cap Au Diable and the civil war still raging on Port Oaks, no real attempts have been made by either city to invade the other. Even with control of their respective islands, neither Dr. Aeon nor Emil Verandi have the men, supplies and opportunity to launch a full-scale invasion. The tunnel, thus, has been sealed at both ends and trapped with mines to ensure any overland invasion cannot happen unseen.
What needs to change in the game
*Swap all Arachnos forces in Aeon City for Goldbrickers. Just move spawns around.
*Swap spawns in Haven to mostly Vahzilok, where Reapers and Mortificators are tending to "errant" zombies, with Goldbricker spawns either standing watch over PTS pipeline towers or fighting Gremlins near the towers or fighting Vahzilok zombies in the street. You can have the Goldbrickers remain on the roofs trying to rob appartments, that's fine.
*Reposition the Arachnos fliers around the airfield so they form a line between the street and the Southern-most hangar. Three filers would do. Have the rest of the area stocked with Arachnos soldiers carrying crates and patrolling the Perimeter.
*Swap spawns around the PTS to consist of primarily Goldbrickers inside the actual compound, primarily Clockwork and Gremlins outside, and battles between Goldbrickers and Clockwork/Gremlins around the perimeter.
*Keep spawns around the lumber mill essentially where they are, with Goldbrickers pacing the area, but also have the occasional CoT Spectral on a rooftop and the occasional ritual Circle mages having trapped a Luddite in a ritual.
*Leave "Luddite island" pretty much as it is, just move the CoT away from the city-facing cliffs and have them show up among the trees performing rituals on Luddites.
*Alter an existing NPC - the Luddite Torch Bearer now has green flaming eyes and is able to use several Fiery Melee and Fire Blast powers. Add a new NPC - the Luddite Priest is a copy of a Luddite Friar only with green flaming eyes and with telekinetic (gravity) powers.
*Swap Leon Brass out of his Arachnos Uniform and into a Goldbricker uniform, by which I mean take a Goldbricker Bombardier, take away his gas mask and goggles and slap Brass' face on him.
*Swap the Arbiter of the zone for either King Midas (give him his own model) or simply have Dr. Aeon take his role. Swap the Arachnos Fortunata for a Deserter Fortunata to keep within the context of the difficulty contacts.
*Leon Brass is no longer doing his arc for fear of Arachnos, he's doing it to get back at Aeon, whom he now has reason to hate, and in order to find out if Aeon really was behind the slaughter of his men. At the last mission with Amanda Vines, it's not Amanda who offers to pay the villain to not interfere, it's Brass who wants Aeon exposed, but it's Aeon - in a new talk-to mission - who offers compensation for the player to go ahead and silence WSPDR anyway.
And that's about all I can think of. -
For a while now, I've talked about what it would be like if Arachnos were taken out of most zones and control passed on to the regional governors. I thought I'd put my money where my mouth was and actually outline an in-canon timeline for how and why this might happen. I don't know that I'll be able to write that up all at once, but we'll start with:
Warburg
Even with Marshal Jason Blitz gone, Warburg does not stay in a power vacuum for long. Having been disgusted with how the Rogue Isles betrayed and mistreated the man she idolised and appalled at her own part in it, Fortunata Erin Gossomer enacts a violent purge of Warburg leadership and takes sole control as governor of the island. The soldiers under her command will no longer bear Arachnos insignias and colours, and will instead call themselves the Warburg Militia. Gossomer's first order of business is to repay Arachnos for their betrayal, ordering mass raids on Grandville Island. In order to save Warburg's WMDs from being wasted against Arachnos point defence batteries, amphibious assaults are being carried away, with missile strikes reserved for taking out strategic targets only. Over the span of just a few days, Warburg Militia forces have essentially taken control of the beach areas all around Grandville island, though the Fab's automated defences ground-level have managed to keep that area clear.
This puts Arachnon in a very bad position, at a time when they are hurting in many other ways. To preserve his image, Recluse recalls nearly all Arachnos surplus forces back to Grandville island to fight the land invasion and closes all borders. However, this is just one of many problems. The Praetorian war is sapping massive numbers of Arachnos soldiers and destroying a lot of equipment, leaving the islands with just a skeleton crew, essentially. Scirocco has defected after the events of Dark Astoria, leaving a power vacuum leading to infighting among Arachnos forces, themselves. After the blatant Aarachnos incursions on American soil in Overbrook and especially their devastating raids on Paragon City following the horrific disaster in Galaxy City has caused the United Nations to issue an embargo against the Rogue Isles and begin deliberations on declaring the nation a rogue state. In the meantime, the US government has entered into a cold war with Arachnos and developed a practice for intentionally turning a blind eye towards licensed heroes performing blatant incursions into Rogue Isles territory.
Pressed from all sides, Recluse finds himself unable to hold onto his nation. Insufficient men, materials and morale have left his forces badly overstretched, and he's doing the only sensible thing he can, which is to hold onto his capital with all remaining forces, leaving the rest of the islands dangerously unguarded, with only basic forces around to protect them. Given that the Rogue Isles are populated by some of the most ruthless, opportunistic, selfish people on the planet, this is a very clear recipe for disaster and Reclues knows it. However, his options at this point are severely limited, and all other islands aside from his capital are, at this point, liable to be sacrificed.
How the game needs to change:
*Recolour all Rogue Arachnos troops to match the grey of Rogue Fortunatas. Swap their faction name to "Warburg Militia." Should be relatively simple as the Architect can already do this.
*Replace all spawns on the beach around Grandville with Warburg Militia and occasionally have them fight against regular Arachnos troops outside. Possibly introduce them into the Gutter in smaller numbers. No art time necessary.
*Close the Grandville customs and move the queue of people into a throng at the dock instead of a queue along customs similar to the souls in Night Ward. No art time necessary.
---
Port Oaks
With the Arachnos presence in Port Oaks significantly diminishes, it's just a matter of time before the locals would grow bold enough to challenge them. The first to move is Guido "the Mooch" Verandi, acting on informant information that the Arachnos government building in Marconeville will unusually lightly defended. Guido's Mooks attack the building, but just as they're about to overwhelm the Arachnos defenders, Emil Marcone and his men enter the fight and attack the Mooks. Pressed on both sides, they scatter and run away. Instead of pursuing them, Emil's men proceed to secure the government building, only to turn on its Arachnos defenders, catching them by surprise and moving to occupy the building themselves. The last few remaining forces receive orders from Grandville: Reinforcements ARE NOT available, and they are to hold the building at any cost. No retreat is permitted.
The defenders of the government building radio for help to Fort Hades to the east, only to find that the for is under siege by invaders from the mainland - Family hitmen. It then transpires that Sebastian Frost, godfather of the mainland Family cartel, has been supplying Emil Marcone with men, money and materials pretty much since old man Marcone died. The old man was Family through and through and he ran the island tight. Since his death, however, Arachnos have tightened security and taken a massive cut into Family smuggling operations. Frost aims to install Emil as governor of the island and kick Arachnos off entirely, returning Port Oaks to Family hands and restoring it as a major no-customs smuggling port. After a VERY protracted battle, Emil's men are able to secure the Arachnos government building. With this victory, Emil declares the island free of Arachnos control and raises his own flags, reforming the land a the "Nation of Port Oaks," an independent island country under the Family's thumb.
However, the battle at the government building turns out to be so protracted and severe that it ties up essentially all of Emil's men for a full day, leaving Villa Montrose essentially undefended. Guido's Mooks - who have not suffered serious casualties during their retreat - regroup and change priorities. With all of the island's soldiers focused on Marconeville, they are free to take the nearly empty Villa Montrose and hole up there. Before Emil is even aware of this, the Mooks have already repositioned the coastal defence turrets along the area's exterior wall and begun reinforcing it and building it up, transforming the Villa area into a nearly impregnable stronghold. By the time Emil's men are able to secure Marconeville and turn their attention back to their base of operations, it's too late - any Family assault ends up in them being cut down by Villa Montrose's automated turrets.
Caught in a state of stalemate, Emil proclaims Guido and his Mooks enemies of the state and begins referring to them as guerilla insurgents. His forces manage to quarantine the Mooks at Villa Montrose and cut off their access to the rest of the city. Fort Hades proves to be completely impregnable to ground assault, as the walls of the old fortress are nearly impossible to climb and Arachnos forces have mined the approaches. Mounted turrets on the ramparts prevent anyone from even approaching the fort, but the Arachnos forces are essentially trapped there, holding the landing pad for reinforcements which will never come. Amidst the chaos, the island's smaller-time villains have gone out in force. The Hellions have all but taken over Oil Spill, with more arriving from the mainland every day. The Snakes have grown bold and moved to the surface and infested Dockside, where they are caught in a constant struggle against the Lost who have also been pushed there by Family forces.
Emil's Family forcess have complete control over Marconeville and the Arena, but their forces are unable to shift the Mooks, who seem to be getting supplies from some unknown source. This unknown source, it transpires, is the Council, who have all but disappeared from topside Port Oaks, forced back into their hidden underground bases by Emil's forces and the chaos on the island. Seeing Guido as the most approachable side, the Council begin supplying his mooks with weapons, food, ammunition and high-tech devices, secretly upgrading the Villa's defence turrets to their superior Council designs and moving Mooks out into the city to cause disturbances through their own underground tunnels.
How the game needs to change:
*Swap most spawns in Marconeville and the area around the Arena with Family spawns. Have them act like PPD spawns in Kings Row, i.e. peering into windows, checking cars, patrolling the streets and holding other factions at gunpoint. No art time necessary.
*Swap almost all spawns in Oil Spill to Hellions, and have them mostly move crates around, set oil slicks on fire and party. Possibly have some Girlfriends along to silently guide them into messing with Gadzul Oil. No art time necessary.
*Move all Arachnos spawns inside Fort Hades and put Trip Mines on the ramps leading up that detonate like Barrels on the DFB. Move Veluta Lunata inside the fort. No art time necessary.
*Have all spawns in Dockside be Lost and Snakes, with either the Lost lying around asleep or the Snakes looking for victims, or otherwise the two groups fighting. No art time necessary.
*Move all Mook Spawns to Villa Montrose and have them spend most of their time cleaning guns and doing combat drills, or otherwise having fight clubs. Move all turrets on the exterior wall. No art time necessary.
*Replace the Villa Montrose exterior wall with the wall of a Freakshow fort, the one made of scrap iron plates and steel girders, then put the turrets on top of the wall's towers. Probably significant art time required.
*Replace all the Arachnos Quartermaster with a Marcone Shady Dealer. Replace the zone's Arbiter with Emil Marcone himself to act as trainer. Replace the Fortunata with a either a "Warburg Militia" Fortunata suggesting they're helping, or otherwise a Deserter Fortunata that chose to work with the winning team.
*Almost all of the stories in the zone can remain untouched, but the one with Emil and Guido in it might need to change. Instead of getting both of them together for a peace talk, you're asked beat both of them up and give them a stern talking-to. This then leads to their lieutenants defecting and conspiring to end the stalemate by killing both Emil and Guido and joining forces as one faction, the first business of which will be finding and killing the player character who "knows too much." That might constitute quite a bit of work, but it's all text work. -
Quote:No worries, I know how it is. I tried to keep it as short as I could, but it didn't work. Sorry about that.Originally Posted by MisterMagpie
Mr. Tow, I like a lot of what you say but god help me, I wish it wasn't such a time commitment to read it.
EDIT: scrolled up, saw someone had beaten me to saying this. Sorry for harping on it. -
I know I've made a lot of rambling posts in this thread, but this one actually has a point. I think I've identified a major failing of contemporary storytelling in this game, and it comes down to climaxes <insert giggity here> and the misunderstanding of what makes them strong. So let's take a few moments and review: What makes for a good climax to a good story?
Well, if you watch many Summer Blockbusters, you would be forgiven to think that that's the time where the action is loudest, the explosions biggest, the people most numerous, the drama most violent and the stake the highest. And while that's not necessarily "wrong," it's actually missing the point of what a "climax" actually is, relying on the erroneous "ending with a bang" theory. Again, that too is not a bad idea, but that too misses the point of what a climax to a good story should represent. All of those are specific cases taken out of context from better movies where they represented only part of why the endings to those movies worked. So what IS it, then?
The climax of a good story is a moment of resolution, a moment where all remaining subplots are resolved, when all characters undergo their final act of growth, where all secrets are revealed and where all plots come together in order for whole story to be resolved. A climax is the payoff for the buildup that is the entire story, but you have to be conscious exactly what it is that you're building up and how you're going to have it pay off. "Lots of action and loud explosions" is not the one-stop-shop solution to ending every story, because no every story builds up violent action that needs to be capped by boiling over into an explosion. Some stories build up a mystery, and thus need to be solved by a revelation. Some stories build up intrigue and thus need to be solved by an act of cleverness. Some story build controversy and need to be solved by an act of clear morality.
What I'm saying is that a climax does not equal "explosions," and is in fact very dependent on the kind of story you're telling because what's in that climax directly spawns from what's in the story. What I'm saying is a climax doesn't necessarily have to be about "action," but should rather be tying of the loose ends from the actual story, done in the spirit of the story itself. That's why you can't afford to just scoop up all the characters and toss them at each other in the hopes that this will produce more excitement. All this does is make them irrelevant and mutually-interchangeable, which is pretty much the worst fate an otherwise decent character can suffer.
Imagine a story as a puzzle where ever character and plot point is a puzzle piece that only has one place where it could fit. As you tell your story, the plot should connect those pieces together one by one. Towards the middle-to-end, you should have most of the puzzle put together in several large pieces that still don't fit together very well. Your climax, then, should represent that one last piece which finally makes all the others click together. This is what gives you a solid story that can stand the test of time. This is what gives you a satisfying story that people will keep coming back to. This is what you need to do in order make a satisfying end.
The oldest of City of Heroes arcs actually do this in a rather very methodical way. Instead of having multiple plot threads all converge at the end, they have multiple plot threads all solved in sequences as the ending approaches. Take, for instance, World Wide Red. This pits the player against Malta plan of unprecedented size, comprised of three parts, this the story is roughly divided into three sections. First you deal with Kingodm Red, Moment and the China situation, when that's resolved you deal with Omnivore red and Project: Wildflower, and when THAT is resolved, Malta are pushed and you deal with Dreadnought Red and the Kronos Titan. When the Malta plan has essentially been thwarted, your climax is actually to capture Director 17, now outnumbered, trapped, failed and desperate. You have methodically stripped him of his men, materials, power and influence and it's time to tackle the man himself. The climax here isn't big on action or big on drama, but what it IS big on is closure. Stopping a plan as devious as World Wide Red is a great thing indeed, but you've stopped it step by step and failed to have an overall closure event. Director 17's capture is that event which ties all the plots back to the source AND - in storyline, at least - presents an escalation of the threat and leads to major in-story achievement.
While World Wide Red may not be great in terms of gameplay systems, it is a story well told if you stick to the storyline side of it. Now contrast this against, say, the ending of Night Ward. No real spoilers, but those who've run it will know what I mean. Three out of four story arcs in Night Ward deal with setting up this weird world, the internal politics and logistics and eventually set up an atmosphere of calm resignation as the souls of the dead have largely accepted their fate and are trying to settle into their new home of the dead. Yes, combat and action still exist, but they are created by the clash of the dynamic world of the living with the static world of the dead and represent the "settling-in" of Night Ward as a place that will continue to exist. This isn't a high-octane action story of shootouts exploding computers, it's almost a character study of what a living world of the dead would be.
That's why ending this zone's story on such a loud bang is so out of place. Night Ward is built on the strength of its factions and the strength of its characters, and both of those ARE very strong. There's some might good writing there. What Night Ward should have had as a climax was the conclusion of all the individual personal arcs that get brought up in the zone. What of Pendragon's honour? What of Carlyle's business? What of the Animus Arcana? What of the denizens of Night Ward? We touched on all of these, yet in turn abandoned them with no resolution. A good story would have put off those resolutions for towards the end and then resolved them in rapid succession around the time of the climax, but that's not what happened. Instead, the climax is just a giant clusterhug of a fight where everyone and their grandma shows up not out of any sense of closing open plot threads, but because whoever made that mission thought it would be cooler to have more people involved in the fight to make it bigger.
This is what I mean when I say that explosions and action is missing the point of having a climax. This is the time when you make everything the characters went through have meaning. This is the time when you put a decisive, satisfying end to their personal arcs. This is where you close down everything you left open (unless you're sequel-baiting, which Night Ward is not). A huge fight closes nothing, settles nothing. It's just popcorn-munching eye-candy with no real substance and no real story behind it, because the real substance and the real story lie abandoned on the side of the plot railroad as they apparently just fell out of the rail cars.
A climax is a resolution of plot threads created as the story builds up to the end. It doesn't have to be action-packed so long as it represents sufficient closure to the story it caps. If you're making a slow settled contemplative story - and Night Ward IS one of those - then you really don't need to end it with a bang. You could - and should - end it as you've told it: By bringing closure to factions and bringing peace to characters' internal struggles. And just killing the bad guy is neither.
I want to end on relevant quote from Max Payne: "The final gunshot was an exclamation mark to everything that had led to this point." Max, I think, says it best. -
Quote:This is what I've always said about what a VIP subscription should mean: freedom from Marketing gimmicks. Right now, being a VIP means being a budget customer because the bulk of the VIP perks is getting things for "free" as part of your relatively cheap subscription. VIP being the "cheap" option does not sit well with me. As far as I'm concerned, VIP should be the option which allows me to spend more to get out of the petty mind games that the game's marketing is playing on its customers. A lot of sites allow you to subscribe to get rid of site ads, and this is more or less what I want to see happen with CoH's VIP subscription - let me buy stuff that you'd normally jerk people around to get via Super Packs or special promotions or "Log in today only!" promotions or garbage like that.Originally Posted by dbhellfist
I think that all should be attainable in some way some easier than others. I an a vet and have been from issue 3 or so and do not like the fact the one set is only usable on level 50 or higher, or that it took me all damn day to unlock a aura of slime with a level 50 who i hate to play just so i can use it on one i started at 1 st. Paying for unlocks maybe a bit much but i don not have a issue with it giving vets options to use points to unlock stuff like this would be fine as well, paragon points that is. Some thing that lets you unlock a aura or some thin account wide for a vet like; capes, auras, stuff only unlock-able with merits and such as well. I for one do not do task forces and i for do not like raiding much as well. There is some cool costume parts but due to being locked behind different things in game can not be used. live up to to what this game calls its self city of heroes freedom free the stuff (or give a way to buy it).
I'll make this simple - let VIPs buy everything that is otherwise tied up in some indirect acquisition way, and make that a part of the service of being a VIP.