Samuel_Tow

Forum Cartel
  • Posts

    14730
  • Joined

  1. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Neuronia View Post
    Well, I remember in the old D&D books demigods and gods had a slew of abilities:

    They went first in combat.
    They had massive travel speeds.
    They could control weather (not so relevant here).
    They could summon huge allies (think the most elevated "angels").
    They had precognitive abiltiies so they gained an Initiative bonus, if they didn't just precede you in combat.
    They had a slew of combat buffs.
    They had a variety of "spell-like abilities" on top of all that (Magic Missile X times per day, Dispel Magic X times per day, etc. etc).
    They could (in some cases) grant wishes.

    In other words, they were pretty OP.

    Basically, demigods should have abilities that make them numerically better than normal players of the game but not so much that they are undefeatable.
    That's a pretty good writeup, actually. Some of those powers are inherently godly and a bit out of place (precognition), but for the most part, these seem like the kinds of abilities I'd give to a person who fought his way into god-like powers without being a literal god.

    If I had to define the status of a "self-made god" with a single word, that would be "prestige." These are the people whom the story should treat with reverence and who should always come off like badasses whether they win or lose. Beating an Incarnate shouldn't be a curb-stomp battle, like Marauder just stomping his foot and *poof* 20 of them get squashed flat. Even when an Incarnate loses, it should be a big deal and a great source of pride for whoever defeated him.

    A big thing that I DON'T want to see is Incarnates being treated as cannon fodder. There's no point in earning the power of the gods if your enemies earned it ten times over and they still squash you like a bug. That's not godlike power. That's god damn suck. At least once in this game, I want the narrative to stop trying to invent threats that are so much bigger than us and let us be the biggest, baddest, most awesome thing around. There are ways to challenge the gods without being stronger than them in single combat.
  2. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    And as I mentioned, that's not the important reward from the perspective of pacing. Once your slots are unlocked iXP no longer matters, and you'll unlock them generally far faster than you'll earn the components to craft the powers that go in them. If component earning is going to be slower in the solo path than in the iTrials, its highly unlikely the thread drop rate will be appreciable enough to make defeat rewards comparable to end of mission or end of arc component or merit-type rewards.
    I look at it this way. As long as I have a steady source of threads that can grow visibly (as in, at all) after the completion of a single mission of after the defeat of a couple dozen enemies, speed isn't really all that important. I know I'll get enough Threads to make my components eventually, so all that's left is watching their number grow as I would watch my experience bar creep along. That's really all I've ever asked out of the Incarnate system - give me some sort of progress I can watch.

    Shards just ain't it. I get one Shard per day, and that's if I'm lucky. I rarely end a mission with a Shard in my inventory. Gaining progress through Shards isn't even like watching grass grow. It's like watching the sky hoping to see a shooting star. They're rare drops, not a form of progress.

    So long as Dark Astoria 2 offers me consistent, visible progress through enemy defeats, I'll be happy enough to clear all my missions of enemies.
  3. We've been told, and told so repeatedly, that the word filter is not an excuse to say profanity. If you use profanity, you are breaching the rules whether the person on the other end can read it or not. That doesn't always make it bad, but when you're a tasteless, insulting *******, then you expect to get reported and acted against. In fact, considering your very first line is a troll, I'm guess you deserve what you got.
  4. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Winterminal View Post
    It is the trope of "If everyone's special, no one is." A Blaster's T1 Ion Judgement power does the same as a Defender's T1 Ion Judgement power, and that Defender's Destiny power will do the same thing when used by a Blaster. For 50 levels, our characters had something that they were specially built for (based on their archetype). That special something set us apart from other characters. Then we hit 50, seek the Incarnate level of divinity, and everyone can suddenly do the same things as everyone else, to the exact same level of effectiveness. How does that set a character apart from the rest?
    I have a problem with this interpretation, and it's probably based on my status as a more or less average player in a game that hosts some truly remarkable ones. Yes, our characters had the speciality of their ATs, but that really isn't a reason to shine for. All this requires is someone else playing your AT better on the same team to show you how not special you are. Hell, half the time all it takes is someone with enough Hamidon enhancements or Inventions or a very good selection of seemingly useless powers to make another AT not specialised in your field show up your specialist character.

    Being shown up by other characters in-game neither interests me nor bothers me, and I don't say this to be dismissive. As far as I'm concerned, we are all the stars of our own stories, and when we team, other people are just supporting actors. That doesn't mean I want to lord my "superiority" over other people who are just as much the stars of their own stories, but more to say that I don't compare numbers with my peers. That's not interesting. When we team, what matters is we get the job done. It's when there's no-one else to help that I actually care about how I perform and that's when I start taking pride in my characters.

    Realistically speaking, the problem isn't with the system - at least not a problem that's solavable - but rather with the storytelling that makes use of the system. Dump 24 Incarnates in the same instances and you damn well have to make the game cheat to challenge them. Moreover, since you have to be fair to everyone, you can't make any of them shine. It's a basic rule of computer gaming that for a happy player base, you can't afford to step on one player for the sake of making another feel good, at least not in a cooperative environment. It's also a basic rule of gaming that the computer has no feelings and it's OK to step all over that to make the player feel special. We can, in other words, be allowed to humiliate the NPCs in order to build our egos, if only the stories were designed to let us do that.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Winterminal View Post
    At the moment, I can only think of two ways they could have made that a reality: make the powers and/or numbers unique for each archetype (based off their already existing role), or make a metric ton of equally effective powers to avoid having a majority of people with the same abilities. The problem with the latter is obvious: that's more time and effort than is feasible, plausible, or in reality, necessary. While the former option is possible, an argument you presented stands against it: Should not these beings, who have fulfilled an archetypical role for 50 levels already, be allowed to broaden their power horizons?
    I have a confession to make - I'm not terribly interested in "roles" or diversity, especially when my characters are as defined by what they can't do as they are by what they can. That's one reason I've never been bothered by the tank-mage concept. If it can shoot, punch, defend and heal... All the better. That just means I'm not missing anything. As such, I honestly feel no need to mess with the system. And if I DID see a need to mess with it, I wouldn't mess with it to make ATs more unique so much as to make the powers with which they break their roles better tooled to the roles they aim to break.

    As I said - I'm not interested in how characters stack up against each other so much as how they stack against the environment, a sort of independent view on what is otherwise PvP-by proxy in a PvE environment. I don't aim to outdo my peers, I aim to be able to do my missions. So long as I can do that, I'm happy. Incarnates, with this in mind, would give me enough power to do harder missions, and do them with more style, as well as giving me added utility with which to break a few rules and avoid a few time sinks. Because I'm an Incarnate and I'm awesome

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Winterminal View Post
    To stay on topic, I feel Incarnates should have abilities that enhance what they already have, much like the Alpha Slot and related to some of the things you listed in you OP. Someone who took the Teleport pool should have a Mission Teleport power on a 5 minute timer as an Incarnate Ability. Or a Super Speed character that can access Cimerora from anywhere (so fast they can time travel). Those are only 2 examples and, yes, they are limited to travel powers, but that's the kind of thing I am talking about.
    See, I think we're thinking in two completely different directions. Before I accepted the main drive behind Incarnates, I used to feel the same way. In my opinion, there's one central aspect we simply have to accept when dealing with not just Incarnates in this game, but with gods and godlike powers in general (well, in fiction, at least) - there are no specialist, there are only generalists. That's kind of the point. A specialist is strong in part because he focuses on one aspect, but also because he EXCLUDES a number of other aspects, thus having more "points" to "spend" on his speciality. This is the fundamental limitation of all so-called balanced characters.

    In my eyes, once you become a god, this is the first limitation that should go. You are no longer defined by NOT being able to do something at all or only having the most basic pointless skills in it. As a god, you should be able to travel and punch and shoot and summon minions and not die and know lots of secrets. That, more than anything else, is what sets godlike beings apart from the rest of us, especially those at least somewhat balanced against the more common folk. A new god may not be that much more powerful at shooting lighting than the world's strongest Electricity Blaster, but he can shoot lighting AND punch with lightning AND defend with lighting AND teleport with lightning AND read people's minds with lightning AND make golems out of lightning AND heal from lighting, just off the top of my head.

    Our characters are limited by the constraints of practicality, as expressed by game balance. There isn't enough time in the day to be good at everything. A god shouldn't be limited like this. A god SHOULD be good at everything, and possibly GREAT at a few things, too. "I can do everything you can do, as well as so much more." A god should be the kind of combatant who can scrap it out with the fighter, win a firefight with the ranger, match magics with the wizard and backstab the thief, because he's something more. It's a power fantasy taken up to 11, but not by making one aspect pointlessly strong while still leaving the god weak and vulnerable to another, but by making that god that much more well-rounded. All of our ATs are designed to miss something, and in so doing identify themselves. By no longer missing that something, I dare say they are thus redefined as gods.

    ---

    I have another example, actually: Hellsing's Alucard. No, he's not a god, but he's still an overpowered mess. He's functionally immortal up to and including letting Andersen cut his head off for kicks, he's immensely dangerous either through his absurd guns or his dark powers, he can transform into monsters, he can summon minions, he can teleport and walk through walls, he can control people's minds and from what I can tell, and from what I can tell he never loses his evil grin. AND he always shows up in a red coat, a wide-brimmed hat and scary shiny glasses even when blown to bits the previous scene. No, he's not a literal god, but with as much power as he has... He might as well be.

    That's what I want for my characters, too - the ability to treat ordinary dangers with an air of bored bemusement, confident that no matter what your enemy does, you have the abilities necessary to counter it well before it becomes a danger. That's actually something I wish we had more often in City of Heroes - missions which are intentionally written in storyline to be easy. The missions themselves don't have to have a lower difficulty as long as the narrative tells of how you had it all under control and your enemies never had a chance.

    I find it a profound misunderstanding of what godlike power should "feel" like, in my opinion, to try and come up with ever greater challenges to make us feel even more feeble than before we had this. In words and numbers, we have more power, but to me at least, it feels like we're weaker because our enemies got ten times as much as we did. Godlike power "feels" the most obvious when we can use it to overpower enemies clearly our inferior with, enemies who would have been problematic before. That, in my eyes, is what godlike power should be used for the most often.

    ---

    Again - all that means is I expect Incarnates to be less sepcialised and more broadly capable, to have abilities of all types and all kinds. Why they have this is an exercise for the owner of the character to explain, so long as we have these. Our Incarnate characters should not be limited by things they can't have, because there should be nothing gods can't have. Difficulty is one thing, but outright lack of a certain ability, that I don't think is applicable.

    This notion more or less informs all the others I've listed.
  5. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    You say rewarding on task complete instead of intra-mission progress is a recipe for disaster, but the reverse is a disaster without the need for crafting.
    It's a disaster from my perspective because it means a few things:

    1. You can never have long missions because people would have a hissy fit. If only the end matters, then mission length is nothing but an obstacle. And I like long missions.

    2. It means that teaming for Incarnate content - and despite being called "solo," I'm sure this will support teams as well - will mean I waste the time of my team-mates by insisting we fight fights instead of skipping them. I have a couple of people that I often team with, and I don't want to waste their time. Right now, we can kill-all every mission and not bat an eye because while it may be slower, each defeat still brings progress.

    3. The promise that we will be able to make progress by street sweeping which has been made makes no sense if there is no progress awarded for enemy defeats.
  6. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    Except that is a hypothetical assuming a change to the turnstile that I'm currently unaware of any plans to implement.
    I wouldn't mention this if it weren't mentioned officially. I couldn't provide a quote, obviously, but this has been stated as a goal for the queue. You're right that no timeline for it has been given and it's unlikely that the two changes will coincide, but the development team has stated - and to my reading done so in no unambiguous terms - that they want to make the turnstile work from within an instance if the can sort out the coding behind it.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    However, even if that change occurs, its not clear what happens then. People can now leave their solo path for the trials, but if the solo missions take significant time, it isn't necessarily very likely that someone would bail out of it near the end to join a trial. A significant percentage of players would commit to the solo missions once they started them, and may not be willing to exit them to join a trial at a random time.
    I would assume solo Incarnate content would provide progress for the duration of its missions, such as for enemy defeats, rather than just for accomplishing the tasks. Putting progress solely on tasks and never on the process of accomplishing those tasks is a recipe for disaster and will do nothing more than see the arcs rushed and repeated ad nauseum to such an extent that someone like me will be wholly and entirely unable to team with other people. I get that giving progress to enemy defeats may just see missions farmed, instead, but at least we'll get to DO something in them.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    Keep in mind why we can't queue in missions in the first place. There is the belief that if you don't want to join because you're busy, you don't have to. But if too many people do that, it could disrupt a trial trying to start if too many people drop or fail to join. The attitude of "I'll queue, because its entirely optional if I join or not" is precisely the mindset the devs are trying to avoid. They want people to commit to the league or the queue, so when it does launch they are far more likely to agree to go.
    Wanting people to commit is a bad idea, because you essentially leave people who are so-so and, especially, people who don't want to wait out in the cold. If your proposition is either I commit or I don't run Trials at all, then my response is I will simply never run Trials at all, because I do not commit to my games. I'll run a TF and stick it out to the end, but only once it's started and largely as a favour to my team-mates, but I refuse to make a commitment to run a task that I don't know will even start.

    Force people to choose, and people will choose to not bother, just as they are doing now. Give people the chance to make a non-committal agreement and you'll find they'll live up to their agreement regardless more often than not.
  7. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Winterminal View Post
    For as much as I agree with you, Sam, about the design of our current Incarnate system, I am surprised by how much I disagree with your definition of an Incarnate. I blame that disagreement on your use of the word "demigod" to describe someone who has abilities on par with a god, but who came by those abilities by means other than "divine."

    When you remove a demigod's weaknesses, thus also removing a focus on one specific area of strength, the demigod becomes a god. If that's what we're going for, great, but if that is the case there is no need for the "demi" prefix.
    If the word bothers you, then swap it for another. I don't mind using "god" but for the mythological and religious implication, if it'll make things more consistent. Frankly, it's a question of terminology that I can be solved with a terminology swap, this it has an easy answer. I'm more looking to "describe," if you will, the sort of creature our characters turn into when they become Incarnates. It's the sort of creature which has god-like power, but which is not literally a god itself, nor born of a god, nor otherwise divine. That's not to say we can't be if that's how we want to tell it, but more that we don't have to.

    What abilities would such a creature have, then?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Winterminal View Post
    I quoted McNum's 2 qualifications because I believe they are at the heart of what defines demigods, and superheroes for that matter. That is where the intrigue and danger come into play, the two things that tend to enthrall us as audience and players. Consequently, those two things are now missing from many Incarnate characters.
    Isn't that the point, though? We've been these things for 50 levels. Why add more levels on top of this if we're not going to go beyond where we are? I'm reminded of the outcry against Indiana Jones finding aliens, but... How else do you top finding the Arc of the Covenant and becoming immortal, really? That's kind of where we're at - we've taken down literal gods, we've saved our world and others, we've taken on entire armies... Where do you go from here if NOT into outright godhood or whatever we want to call it? Where do we go from here if not into abandoning the limitations which shaped our path thus far and becoming something more?

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Winterminal View Post
    Once a character has crafted T3 and T4 Incarnate abilities, and especially if they have invested in IO sets, their weaknesses and their powers' focus have been diminished (each is inversely proportional to the other). The absence of those two qualifications are the reason the Devs have now resorted to "gimmicks" for the Incarnate content. They can no longer rely on a Blaster to be vulnerable to attacks, on a Tanker to lack the offensive capacity to deal with large groups with any amount of speed, nor on a Corruptor to be wary of certain kinds of mez attacks.
    Personally, I feel that the gimmicks are less necessary because of the character level of the players involved and more necessary because these events can feature 24 players. Even when they're not entirely very well built or packed with Incarnate powers, 24 player characters are amazingly powerful due to the way buffs and debuffs stack in this game.

    Moreover, though, I firmly believe that an overcoming of the limitations is definitely an ability that Incarnates/Gods/Demigods should possess. And I don't just mean overcoming of the game's numerical limitations like hit points, resistance and defence, but an overcoming of narrative limitations in general. For instance, many City of Villains story arcs feature securing a ship to travel to Paragon City as its own mission, or at the very least boarding one. That's a limitation an Incarnate should not face, as an Incarnate should be able to travel from the Isles to the City... I want to say "instantly," but at least on his own.

    The reason I say this is it's practically unconscionable to be to give someone the power of the gods in terms of narrative, and then still have that someone be stupid or crap in battle or unable to go anywhere. Maybe it's just a power fantasy of mine, I don't know, but being able to break 50 levels of hard limitations is kind of why I find Incarnates so exciting as a prospect even though I don't like the Well storyline or the raiding required.

    To my eyes, Incarnates shouldn't be just a face in a crowd, but rather the centre of the story. They should be the important ones, the big ones, the ones everything ultimately revolves around because - like never before - they are the most powerful thing around. "In fact, the combat prowess of a boss" rule is pretty much this.
  8. Ah, I have another item to add I just remembered. A demigod should have:

    *Immunity from environmental limitations. A regular person diving underwater needs an air tank. A demigod can simply breathe underwater or, better yet, does not need to breath at all. A normal person jumping off a tall building would either die or suffer serious injury. A demigod is immune to falling damage. A normal person trapped in a fire burns. A demigod is immune to regular fire. A person trapped in a remote location would starve. A demigod doesn't need to eat, or otherwise has an infinite supply of nourishment in some way.

    Yeah, I definitely like this one
  9. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dante View Post
    I must admit, when the powers for the Incarnate system were revealed, I was a little disappointed at how much they blurred the lines of the ATs. We can already do this with Inventions but the Incarnate system takes it even further. Perhaps this is deliberate.
    I do believe it is. Now, I admit, at first it had me confounded. After all, why would my super-fast young school girl be able to summon ghostly minions or shoot lightning from her hands? Well, the thing is... At some point you more or less have to. Biting the ankles of giant monsters only takes you up so far, but at some point, you have to start going to other dimensions on your own, you have to develop some way to fight incorporeal enemies, you have to find some ways to attack aliens in their space crafts in orbit, you have to find some way to get to other planets and so forth. When the scope of the story grows, the abilities your character needs to posses grow with it. Sure, you can craft artificial means into the story itself - you can't get into space, but there's a Han Solo - but then you're not really telling the story of a demigod any more. A demigod has to be able to do these things by himself.

    Think about it terms of story structure. We didn't wake up one day with a halo over our heads... Well, Vanden did, but that's besides the point. Point is, we earned our way into power comparable to that of a demigod, but (if you ignore the actual Well storyline like you should) you did so through your own means. Maybe you collected a whole host of artefacts that can do these things, maybe your inherent mutations developed further, maybe you made better tech. Who knows? The point is that you've travelled the world, faced its greatest challenges and amassed a wealth of abilities that aren't as narrowly focused as, frankly, the one thing you could do when you were just starting out.

    If you look back to a lot of established heroes' stories, they really start out being able to do just one thing. For instance, maybe you can fly. Bang, you're a super hero, and that's your only power. Or you can regenerate. Great. You're a hero, and that's your power. But as you start reaching demigod levels of power, JUST that one ability isn't going to cut it, because there's only so far you can enhance it before you drop off the edge of ridiculousness and plunge into the ocean of absurdity. So you can punch people really hard. So what happens if those people shoot at you from farther than an arm's reach and there are no buildings to climb? Well, maybe you can also jump. And maybe you can shoot, too. So what if your enemies are ghosts? Well, you know of a technique to hit incorporeal things. So what if your enemies are in another dimension? Well, you have an alien artefact that can take you to another dimension. What if your enemies surround you? Well, you know of a magic spell that can summon an army of demons to your aid.

    You can see how the literal need for more abilities snowballs with the scope of the story and how quickly a one-trick hero can grow into a force to be reckoned with even if said hero's power level isn't over 9000. Once you're playing in the big leagues, you kind of have to have a bag of tricks because not only will your enemies have more and more tricks, but the variety of enemies and the cheapness of their gimmicks will only get worse and worse. When you're a young hero just starting out, the universe is fair. If you can punch things, your enemies can usually be defeated by punching them or by punching something else that in turn lets you punch them. When you become a demigod, however, the universe expects you to step up and WILL throw enemies who are immune to punches at you. Then what do you do? Well, you pull out one of the tricks you're supposed to have, hence the topic subject.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by EU_Damz View Post
    From what we can all see ingame, every incarnated/demi-god character has one defining power that seperates them from everybody else.
    I honestly think that's something of a limited interpretation of "demigods." Essentially, what you're doing is drawing on the history of mythology and pulling out genuine divine beings from there. That's an overarching problem with the Incarnate lore in general - it more or less tries to change what our characters are in order to excuse giving us more powers, and it really doesn't have to.

    Personally, I interpret the Incarnate version of a demigod less as someone who literally has the power of a patron god (that would be lame) and more as someone whose powers have grown to such a level that they rival even those of the gods, themselves. I may have slacked off on my mythology, but I don't recall there being a god of guns, yet our Incarnates could have their godlike powers almost entirely revolve around guns just the same. It's not divine power or godly power, it's god-LIKE power, which is to say power on the same level as the gods, but not necessarily coming from the same source.

    I recall an interesting anecdote from an old French animated show with a somewhat similar motif. Every 10 000 years, a race is held between all races in the universe, and the champion becomes the "Avatar," the all-powerful god being of the universe who can do nearly anything. The problem is that before he won, the previous Avatar was an immensely powerful sorcerer, so even though he lost his powers when his "tennure" ran out, he still had enough strength left in him to challenge the actual avatar, who was personally a very powerless little weakling without his divine intervention assistance.

    That's more or less how I see our Incarnates - as people who are so powerful that they can challenge the gods of history directly, but whose power comes from their own abilities and items, rather than from their status.
  10. Keep in mind that when we talk Demigods here, we're still trying to keep within the realm of what our characters eventually become - that is to say, we start out as ordinary characters, but reach demigod level power though other means than direct divinity. Well, at least in most cases. This is less a case of "What if you were born as Hercules?" and more a case of "What if you were born a common kid from Jersey who somehow got godlike super strength and invulnerability?" In our cases, demigod status is less inherent to our characters and more just that - a status we come into via having enormous power, not always related to the divine. For instance, my godly power could be "really big guns."

    That said, literally crossing the AT divide and picking powers from another AT, as well as reinforcing the strengths of your own AT might be a pretty good idea that I didn't think of. Say you're a master swordsman who can out-fence anyone and everyone. Well, your godlike power could be that you can now outfence armoured vehicles and cut through solid steel, as well as that you can now throw your swords a great distance and stab people from far away, or you can "cut the air" and send a shockwave of destruction towards your enemies.

    That does kind of fall under my "mix of abilities" banner, but I still like it as a more grounded idea when it comes to our actual game.
  11. Quote:
    Originally Posted by JKCarrier View Post
    Fixing the LFG so you can run missions while you wait ought to be a big improvement, but I wonder if it isn't too late. Players are already in the habit of pre-forming leagues, and there's still the problem that randomly-assembled PuGs are prone to failure in the trickier Trials.
    Let me put it this way - if there's no real downside to queueing up for a Trial, I'd queue up for it. The worst that can happen is I never get on one, but if I have something else to do, I'll do that and just keep on queueing till the cows come home. Sooner or later people will catch on to the "no downsides" thing and start queueing, and we'll eventually start seeing Trials formed out of the queue. It's far easier to click a button and go about your business than it is to monitor channels, lemme' tell ya!

    As for PuG raids failing... Yeah, that I can see, but I personally consider it a flaw of raid design, at least for most of them. To my mind, designing raids which are only accessible through a random game joining feature and then going ahead to make them require strict coordination, leadership and prior training is just awkward planning. If they're supposed to require this kind of rigorous micromanagement and preparation, then don't put them in a LFG queue. If you put them in a LFG queue, then ensure that people who join a raid from it actually have a snwoball's chance in hell of succeeding.

    If need be, raid instructions need to be included in some kind of easy-to-access guide somewhere on the US. Maybe make Prometheus able to be called from inside the raid instance so that he can provide point-for-point instructions and tactical suggestions in case people are setting foot in a raid for the very first time. Automating the team-building process also requires automating the instruction process, because you very well could have an entire league made up of first-timers, and you NEED to inform those of how to play your obtuse Trial.

    Personally, I hate tasks that you're supposed to fail a dozen times before you trip over backwards into even the faintest idea of how to succeed or - much more commonly - read about how to succeed on a fansite. That's either "guide dang it" or "nintendo hard," depending on how you see it, and I consider nether to be good design.
  12. Mastermind customization ties into power customization and presents an immense workload. That's the real excuse. Unlike other summons, Mastermind henchmen have a variety of costumes per henchman, and often a variety of varieties if you have dissimilar, random-appearance for your henchmen like Thugs do.

    Basically, each henchman has four costumes: one default, one with just the first upgrade, one with just the second upgrade and one with both. Each Mastermind has three tiers of henchmen, so that's three times four costumes. Some henchmen, like Ninja, Thugs and Mercs, also have multiple models for all their henchmen, and each model has four costumes to itself. For Thugs, in fact, most of their upgrade powers is just costume piece calls - a huge list of them - to make sure a black guy doesn't turn into a white guy when he puts on a jacket and one guy's face doesn't change into another guy's face when he puts on a bandana. What this equates to is a giant lump of artwork to even mess with these things.

    There's also UI work. Normally, summons either spawn one entity, or else spawns a group of the same entities, so you can use one option to customize them all. Mastermind henchmen often spawn three very dissimilar entities with just one power. I think the Demon Summoning Demonlings are the best example - each looks different and has different powers of a different colour. Considering the UI doesn't even let us keep our toggles on so we can see what we're changing and STILL only has the light/dark part of the screen take up a 4x3 rectangle on the right of my 16x9 monitor, I'd say that's a problem.

    ---

    All of that said... Sure. Of course I'd like to see customizable henchmen. One of my dreams has always been to see a sort of "storm trooper" appearance for Mercenaries henchmen. Right now, the only "futuristic" henchmen we have are Robotics robots, with the Mercs more resembling 1970s Vietnam era US soldiers, complete with the Arnold Schwartzenegger shirtless commando who'd have his eyes sucked out of his head Total Recall style if he actually went out in space like what I want to have mine do.

    Mastermind henchmen customization is one of the big things left in this game, right next to the ability to fire non-weapon powers (Ice Blast, say) out of guns and weapon powers out of our hands or hand-mounted implements. It's always been a good idea.
  13. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rodion View Post
    The leveling speed in DFB really does slow down a lot once you hit level 15 or 20. You'd be better off running with level 50 friends in +2 missions because the drops are much better, and you have a shot at purples.
    While that's true, I've seen a shocking number of people who do not know this, and refuse to believe that there are faster ways to level up in the 20s than infinite DFBs. I've had to argue with people who insisted my level 32 Brute was better off running the DFB "because you can" than running solo missions or regular teams. When the DFB is all people know, that's all they do. There needs to be some mechanic in place to limit this at least at some point.
  14. With a solo Incarnate path having the distinct potential of making me care about godhood for my own characters, this brings up an old question that I don't think I ever really got an answer to. See, Incarnate powers kind of break AT boundaries and kind of give Incarnates access to a little (or a lot) of everything. A full Incarnate (as far as we go so far) can buff, debuff, nuke and summon pets, and that's a good range of abilities across nearly all ATs. In the beginning, I worried that this may be blurring AT boundaries, but I've since come to expect that... Gods and demigods kind of do a little bit of everything. Hence the question:

    What abilities do you believe demigods in general should possess?

    Now, mind you, when I say "abilities," I'm talking in the most abstract, general sense. For instance, "large-scale attacks" in general, not "Ion Judgement" in particular, or "the ability of fast travel" in general and less so "Zone Teleport" in particular.

    In fact, I recall the very first time I actually felt like a cool person on the Ramiel TF was being told to go speak with the Statesman. Him being in IP would normally have meant a trip, but not this time. I left Ouroboros and travelled directly to Independence Port very close to his ship, I spoke to him, he collapsed, I opened an Ouroboros portal 10 feet from him and calmly walked back into Ourobors almost like one of those end bosses that keep popping in in more traditional RPGs. This told me that even something as simple as having access to your own mode of travel that's independent of the city's architecture or transport system in itself came with the prestige of a "higher being," and I liked it.

    But that's just one instance of one ability that's not even tied to godhood, specifically. In fact, if you look at characters with "godlike" abilities in a lot of the more fantastic stories, so very often these characters are simply not specialists in any one field. They have the Artefact of This, the Power of That, the Spirit of That Guy, control over That Force and so on. Literal gods, born and raised in true divinity... That's one thing. But what we are as Incarnates is ordinary characters who have attained power that rivals that of the gods themselves, but not necessarily through literal divinity. As such, our powers end up being more esoteric and, in some ways, more generalist.

    With that explanation out of the way, here's what I feel godlike beings and physical demigods need to have access to in terms of general abilities:

    *Some kind of instant travel or fast travel that's independent of the world it's used in. A demigod has the ability to be where he needs to be ahead of all of his mortal enemies, which is one reason he's so dangerous.

    *A mix of abilities of all kinds. While his mortal enemies have to specialise in a field very heavily to match his power, a demigod is not necessarily stronger than them, but is as strong in far more fields. That's why he's so dangerous without necessarily being cheating powerful.

    *The ability of exception. A demigod is exempt from the limitations of his enemies and immune to the dangers inherent to who they are. For instance, a regular enemy can travel through time only a set distance, but a demigod can travel to any time period. A disease which turns ordinary people into zombies simply has no effect on a demigod because his immune system is that badass.

    *Authority. A demigod is a very important person, and the story recognises this. Humble people venerate the demigod while insolent people fear him, and he is the central figure of stories he shows up in. Laws make exemptions for the demigod and seemingly impossible tasks are given a chance to succeed when he attempts them.

    *The combat prowess of a "boss." A demigod is a dangerous person. Whenever he enters combat, he is the most dangerous thing on the battlefield, and the only hope his enemies have of defeating him is either trickery or overwhelming numbers. In a fight, the demigod is the "boss," with enemies having to pool their forces if they have a hope of victory.

    *Minions. A demigod can oppose entire armies because he is never truly alone. When necessary, he can call on help specific to his powers. This could be literal allies drawn from a pool of existing people, or otherwise constructs created or controlled by the demigod's powers. Demigods who originally specialised in minions proper get to have more and stronger such.

    That's all I can think of off-hand. Keep in mind that all of this is just abstract notions and may not always correspond to what's in the game, or indeed with what even COULD be in the game. That's OK, though, because what I'm looking for is a general idea of what a demigod should "resemble," which should only afterwards inform my view of what I will ask for out of demigods in City of Heroes in particular.

    If you disagree with my assessments, that's fine. It's welcome, in fact. Let me know what powers do you feel a demigod should have in your preferred story, and let me know how they differ from mine.
  15. Quote:
    Originally Posted by MrCaptainMan View Post
    I don't know what effect this will have on Leagues, however. Currently, if I'm waiting in Pocket D, it's a very rare occasion that I click 'no' and leave the league. If I have the option to choose to continur doig something I'm enjoying, however, I'm going to be opting out of the trial queue more often.
    Well, I imagine I'll do what my friend did in WoW - queue up for a zillion different things, and if one shows up when I'm unavailable, I'll let the prompt time out or refuse it, and then wait for the next one in the list. Then again, I've never been shy of abandoning instances when I'm alone. Like you said - the instance will be there when I come back, and I'm usually solo so who gives a toss about the instance if I don't?

    My general point is that if you can get people engaged into Incarnate-applicable characters and playing them at the time, you have a MUCH higher chance of getting even the stout dissenters to join Trials from time to time. A lot of people - myself included - complain about Trials, but the bulk of this is because Trials are seen as the status quo. If you allow us to turn Trials into the exception to the rule, which is "my own stuff at my own pace," then I WILL run them as a change of pace.

    Few things in this game are so bad I will NEVER run them at all, but a lot of things I don't want to run very often.
  16. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Redlynne View Post
    I like him as far as I can throw him (off a very tall building). Doesn't everyone?
    Reese doesn't bother me. Yes, he's a dick, but he gets his comeuppance, so that's justified. What bothers me far more is people who are dicks, but whom I can't stab through the chest in an instanced mission.
  17. I don't like Corruptors and Defenders because of their general design. Yes, if I take every pool power in the game, I'm sure a select few builds are very powerful, but I don't like playing ATs where a majority of powersets just don't work for my needs. I can make a Scrapper and pick his primary and secondary powersets at complete random, take not a single pool power aside from Combat Jumping and Super Jump, and still feel like the ultimate badass. That's more or less what I did with my Titan/Inv Brute that I'm playing right now, and she's awesome. Maybe a bit too awesome, but that's Titan Weapons for you.

    Corruptors and Defenders have far too many powers I can't use on myself, and that bugs me. I'm sure "support" has its place in the grand scheme of things on a more global level that my self-centred view of the world permits me to see, but I don't want to be the one to play them. It bugs me to the point where taking the ally-only rez powers on my Masterminds is usually last on the list, if I pick them at all. I just don't want to play characters designed to be fragile and/or specialise in support. Sure, some support sets work better without team-mates than others, but that's an exception. If I'll play an AT with a support set, I'd rather play a Mastermind.
  18. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
    More specifically, people waiting for Leagueville can always decide to leave for Solotown, but the reverse is never true. So there is an asymmetry in terms of which activity can steal players from the other that is independent of preference.
    I'm not sure that's true, at least not intrinsically. In fact, here's my current situation and - exaggeration and fabrication notwithstanding - the biggest reason I just don't do Trials: I don't play my 50s. Why would I? When the only way I have of progressing them is Trials and I have to sit on my hands and wait for a Trial to form (which I won't), what reason do I have to even log in a 50? What reason, I mean, that I didn't have prior to I19? Because I didn't play my 50s before that, and I don't play them since.

    Now consider a solo Incarnate path. All of a sudden, I DO have a reason to log in and play my 50s, because I can make progress on them even if the rest of the world went to sleep that day. Moreover, if they make the LFG Queue work from within an instance, the exact reverse of what you postulate will happen. People might (and probably will) play the solo Incarnate path as a first choice, but will do so always queued and look out for a Trial. Whenever one of those shows up either in the queue or over Global, they will do that, instead, because it's a faster, easier source of progress (I assume).

    The biggest mechanical reason that turns people like me off Trials is not having anything to do when one isn't being formed. Give us something to do, and we just might elect to do trials just as a change of pace, in much the same way I run TFs now. These days, I'll be playing solo missions when I get a tell or see a Global call recruiting for a TF. I think... "Hmm... I haven't run this TF in a while. Why not?" So I ditch my instance (it'll be there when I come back) and join up with the TF. The trick is to keep me interested when I'm NOT doing forced teaming, because you first have to get me to log into a character capable of running this content before you have a shadow of a hope of getting me to run it.

    And, no, I will not switch characters if I heard a call. I play what I want, when I want to play it. The game does not dictate when I swap characters.
  19. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid View Post
    Remember, an attack on an Arbiter is considered an attack on Arachnos itself which will lead to the player being tracked down and utterly destroyed! Of course, some of my heroes have beaten up LOTS of arbiters and Arachnos ain't done squat about it. Pansies.
    Yeah, and considering we rip apart Arachnos base after Arachnos base time and time again, I'm not worried. It's just "but thou must" where one doesn't need to exist. I'm pretty sure villains would be perfectly happy to screw over a Patron if that patron were aiming to screw us over anyway.

    But again, if I got to break canon and go off the rails, punching and shooting various annoying villain contacts is the direction I'd go. Whenever people ask for "more villainous stuff," someone invariably brings up killing civilians. Screw that! I want to kill the pompous bastards who try to order me around! Ain't that villainous AND fun?
  20. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wing_Leader View Post
    That notice is useless if it doesn't result in a visible effect that (a) I can discern the cause/source of, and (b) come up with a solution for. Maybe my game client was borked somehow, but I saw nothing else to attack, debuff, taunt, or otherwise attend to other than Trapdoor himself. I saw no visual indication that he had changed or was doing anything other than fighting as he was doing before. In short, I had no other usable indicators telling me what needed to be addressed, or that I needed to be doing anything other than simply continuing to pound on him, which was of course futile. When I saw I couldn't put a chip in his hit points, I looked around for another target to take out, a glowie to destroy, anything. I saw nothing in the room with me. Nothing. Consequently, when I went back to deal with him again after that, the only tactic at my disposal was to try even harder to take him down before that mysterious notice came up and I was again faced with an unkillable enemy.
    I'm pretty sure his description says something along the lines of "Trapdoor has learned to teleport to multiple locations, allowing him to fight and rest at the same time." I'd have to look at it to give you an exact quote.

    *edit*
    I couldn't find his Incarnate bio on ParagonWiki and I have no characters with easy access to the in-game critter, so at this point my memory is all I have to go on.
  21. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
    I think I had to finally get Shivans in addition to the above to actually succeed with that character. The next step for that character would have been getting the Warburg Rockets.
    I think Evil Geko and a few others were insisting Trapdoor was doable with any powerset combo on any AT and that they had done so in Beta without abusing the corridor trick that eventually got patched away. I could be wrong, however, but that's what I recall from I19 Beta.

    From my experience, the arc is tough but doable for melee folk. Probably not nearly as much for the more team-oriented ATs, though my take on "support characters" will probably just derail the thread into a quarrel.
  22. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Grae Knight View Post
    It would appear from your video that the hit effects are timed with a normal attack without momentum so when you get the momentum buff and a faster animated attack the hit effects are delayed. The other stuff is just sloppy on a designer's part.
    I did notice that it's the Momentum animations of powers that most often had delayed hit effects, but I don't think the culprit is as easy to point to. The difference in attack speed between having and not having Momentum is not insignificant, and is quite a bit longer than the delay in these attacks. If hit effects actually were delayed by as much as the Momentum difference, this would have been far more obvious to far more people and would likely never have been allowed to go Live. Well, so I hope, anyway

    At the very least with Rend Armour, it's pretty obvious that its non-Momentum animation is that of Assassin's Blade from Ninja Blade, but with added "wind" effects, which makes it obvious why everything is timed right - it was timed right in the animation this is drawn from. The with-Momentum animation of Rend Armour, however, looks to be brand new, and as such is mistimed. To be honest, the "wind" effect on the with-Momentum animation for Rend Armour is also early, but I didn't want to break the video down into such small segments as it would have become confusing.

    All it all, it seems to me that the brand new attacks which were made for this set are the biggest culprits. Whoever made the effects for these did a great job in terms of manufacturing the visuals, but either didn't have enough time to finish timing them down to the individual frame (which is somewhat dubious since we reported this weeks before the set went Live) or was otherwise pulled off to do another project and simply hasn't had time to go back and tune up the timing. I don't want to come off as insulting the artist's work, as to me this is more unfinished than anything else, and I hope the timing is tightened up a lot.

    For the record, perfect timing is not a creature of myth. Quite a few of the Titan Weapon attacks already have frame-perfect timing. I have a strong rig and was filming a dead spot, so the video is shot at 45 FPS for the most part. Even at 45 FPS, slowed down to a quarter speed and advanced frame by frame, the timing I called perfect quite literally WAS perfect, with the actual weapon animation coinciding with the power's hit effect within a frame of each other. It's doable.
  23. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
    I'm gonna have to agree with you here, Sam. The hit delays and misaligned arcs are something that should be fixed. I remember how quick the changes to Dual Blades' hit times were (Vengeful Slice, most notably) when it came out, so hopefully the devs can fix the times here quickly as well.
    Actually, Dual Blades Vengeful Slice was the first power I did a slow-mo video for exactly because it was so mis-timed and no amount of reporting it seemed to do anything. I ended up PM-ing the video to BABs directly at one point a few months before it finally got fixed. I can't say whether my video is the one that did it or if we just piled on enough complaints, but in my eyes that seemed to take forever. That power had four swings, FIVE hit effects in terms of graphics but played only three sounds and nothing was synched with anything else. Oi!

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim View Post
    EDIT: You forgot one MAJOR thing with Arc of Destruction (No Momentum): Watch your character's left forearm and tell me just how they were able to follow through with the rest of the attack. During the downswing, the left arm seems to either rotate and break the character's arm, or the arm resets itself and passes through the weapon. There's no way you could wind up that attack with your left forearm twisted around 180 degrees.

    EDIT2: I meant left arm. Oops.
    In my attempts to keep a consistent angle and location through all attack videos, I accidentally ended up filming most of Arc of Destruction's Momentum-less attack half-clipped into a wall. This is the first time I realised just HOW much real estate these animations take up to play out. It looked like I had plenty of room in front of my character and behind her, but I ended up clipping both with the dummy in front and with the wall behind. Wow!

    But, no, I didn't notice the arm. I just got Arc of Destruction yesterday, which is what I'd been waiting on to do this compilation, so I haven't had a chance to play with the power proper. I'll keep an eye out for it, though.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bosstone View Post
    I can't watch the video at work, but I'm sure all those animation problems exist. Still...I dunno? I've had fun with the set and I don't really get confused about what's going on, at least no more so than with any other attack powerset. And I seem to be the only person who has no issue with the sound effects at all.
    On knowing what's going on: The Titan Weapons animations are actually pretty simple. Rather, they're straightforward - each attack follows a more or less planar arc and consist of mostly a single attack motion. It's just that each attack has two rather distinct animations, so there are a lot of animations to remember. It's easy to tell once you get used to the set, though. And the animations ARE different, have you noticed? Almost all the Momentum-less attacks come out of the right and swing to the left because the character ratchets back to the right. However, almost all the Momentum animations are the reverse - they come from the left and then swing to the right. Defensive Swipe actually changes its direction between animations and Rend Armour reels back to the "other" side.

    As for the sound effects, I suspect they changed a little since Beta. They seem louder to me, at least. More metal banging, less just wind. That, and Whirling Smash has a very heavy, hard impact sound, almost like what you used to hear in the old Hanna-Barbera cartoons when two cars collided. It's distinct enough to make it sound very heavy. Arc of Destruction, sadly, does not have the same sound, which is disappointing.

    I didn't include sound effects in this because I'm running the footage at a quarter speed and the sound is REALLY funky when played that slow

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DumpleBerry View Post
    I only watched about two minutes of this, but thank you for putting this together. Time Lapse Weapons is getting to me. Have you noticed whether or not the damage effect (the actual -hp/orange numbers) correspond with any particular point in each animation? It seems to me that they happen last of all, and well after the animation has concluded.
    In my experience, the damage numbers are almost exactly synced up to the hit effects, which are almost exactly synced up with the sound effects for all powers. I think what you're seeing a problem with is the "Miss" messages. For some reason, these are HIDEOUSLY delayed, often appearing two or more seconds after the attack has missed. It throws me off a lot when I see my attack fire and nothing happens. I can never tell if I'm lagging or if the Miss message will just pop up in a minute.

    Also, when your damage numbers start coming in late, keep a VERY sharp eye on your netgraph. Red bars and lost packets on that can cause damage numbers and enemy defeats to be delayed on your end. I've had that happen quite a few times because my connection occasionally spazzes out for seconds at a time and just starts dropping my packets left and right. However, in normal play, I've not experienced damage being delayed past the hit effect on the enemy.
  24. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Aggelakis View Post
    You couldn't do paper missions as a hero (those are only for villains). You had to do three scanner missions to get your safeguard.
    Right, right, I forgot. Truth be told, it turns out I didn't have to. I did the Safeguard to get a contact in Kings Row, who immediately sent me to the Hollows, whereupon I slapped my forehead and went: "Doh! I meant to do the Hollows this time!" I'm not sure if I'd have levelled up to 12 in time finish Julius' missions otherwise, though.
  25. Quote:
    Originally Posted by Snow Globe View Post
    The developers of the Incarnate Trials are arch-typical Killer GMs.
    Funny enough, this reminds me of the Spoony One's take of the last ride of the eponymous "Spoony Bard" through "Dungeonland." From what I can tell from the comments, their GM was improvising quite a bit, and EVERYTHING in Wonderland wanted them dead.

    More to point, that's how I see it, as well, and that's a big reasons why I want nothing to do with iTrials. They seem designed to crush players through a cheating meat grinder and leave us no option but to min/max just to survive. And if we don't? Well, those last 50 levels of being awesome don't mean squat. In iStuff, WE are the minions.