QuiJon

Lets be honest, the devs didnt decide to add rewards because they were being generous, they decided to add rewards because they knew that with no rewards that people would not use the system. No rewards in pvp = no pvp players. Nerf the rewards for HamiRaids = little to no hami raids.

And like every reward in the game there is a way to farm it. So Im sorry the idea that there was no intention to have MA be farmable is a crock of ****. It might not have been the intention, but it certianly could not have been ignored that it was going to happen unless the devs are much more dim-witted then i would have thought they were.

Hell the players in beta for issue 14 even TOLD the devs in feed back the inherent problems with the system andhow it was going to be abused and they choose to launch it as is. (or as was) So im sorry the attitude that the MA was not intended to be subject to the same design issues as everyother facet of the game has been doesnt carry weight in my book.

That 742 max was on a large warehouse map. So I am guessing that the 1500 cap is basicly unattainable now. I really dont like the idea of capping the returns off the size of the map. The real game doesnt put a cap on how many salvage peices or recipies you get based on map size, its a random roll on each kill. If by numbers its a good chance i will get a peice of common salvage for every X number of minions killed, then the ticket drops should just reflect that same rate or approximate to it.

I think you missed his point. THough you might consider getting 1 orange salvage for every 24 minions you kill fine and dandy, that is a drop rate that would highly exceed the drop rate of the same type of slavage for a live mission when defeating enemies. I dont have a problem with the drop rates, my problem right now is that the cap seems to have been lowered on me. In all the discussion of XP changes i might have missed this. But I "maxed" out running a mission one time at around a 1000 ticket gain. I ran the mission again to try and actaully pay closer attention and seemed to hit the cap around 742 tickets. Which seemed an odd number to cap at.

For what its worth, MY farm missions dont usally stay published beyond my use of them. However as has already been said, how come those that do farm, when we choose to can find creative content on the MA in no time at all, but everyone else claims that no one is finding their missions because of the farms. Or does it just never occur to you that when you figure some 100k people are playing with the MA, that perhaps they are not all going to find your mission to play?

There is no laziness, the point of the MA was to create play content. If a player choose to make a farm mission that takes no advantages of exploits or work arounds i see no reason why it has no right to be listed for play by the community any more then another players Dr. Aeon opus.

However perhaps what we should be doing instead of pointing fingures at each other, would be to suggest possible solutions to the problem. Its really not that hard, and wouldnt be that hard to fix. The MA has a filter already, if they simply allowed for tags to be added to missions that could allow certian content to be filtered out the problem would be solved.

Why not have a farm tag for a mission? If i can tag my mission as a farm, then you can filter that tag from your search results. Or even better, what about the ability to "Hide" a mission from search. Again i can make my farm, have it there for me or friends to use, but it only comes up if someone searches for my Global as the author. So then they have to know me. Or know the mission is there and authored by me to make use of it. Otherwise it wont show up on any general search or string search for titles or lenght of story etc.

Either one of those solutions right there solve your problems, without being a preventive from the other player from doing as he wishes. Yet so many times lately it seems all or nothing. I would like to think as a community we can find solutions to problems that dont curtail how anyone wishes to spend thier ingame time.

Role Playing has many forms and many exents. There are those that back in the pen and paper days WERE their characters. I remember seeing people talking with lousy british accents, or wouldnt respond to you if you didnt use their characters name. There are also those who are role playing that are basicly just using a character. However at its heart no matter what letters of the acronym you want to focus on, i focus on the G, game.

I perhaps misplaced my modifier in reffering to role Players as "pathetic". What i was intending to say is that the view of many roleplayers not being able to see beyond a suggestion like "remove all rewards" is pathetic. Removing all rewards would simply mean no one would play it. How many people would play D & D if they earned no experience for their characters, earned no gold, no drops, no new weapons etc. Rewards are at the very heart of ALL role playing games i have ever experienced.

Your comment suggest that the devs didnt expect the MA to be used to level, earn drops, earn tickets, that they expected a pure creative outlet. That is a falsehood. Their very publications stated it was a tool for leveling by means of player content. If the people that dont like the changes put thought to alternatives, it would go much further i think then simply saying "Stop it"

First off, if you dont like farming, dont do it. After 5 years your not going to convince anyone to change their habits. Secondly, EVERYTHING ever added to this game has been farmed or misused in some way or another, be in merits, farming TFs, farming Wolfs, farming AV arcs etc. The MA is no different. The devs are simply looking for the best balance so that the MA wasnt offering such superior results to what other mechanics in the game offered.

I dont need the MA to farm. The devs have given me a slider to set to 8 man missions, they have taken level restrictions off hazard zones so my heroes can PL villians or vice/versa. I can just as easily use the infernal Demons mission in the portal to farm on my fire tanker as i can make a mission in MA. The difference is I actaully preffer ticket use to getting random drops. Overall i probably dont get as much from the tickets as i might from randoms, but i like the feeling that i am more in control.

All removing rewards from the MA will do is to make certian that no one but pathetic RPers will touch the thing in any way shape or form. And i would be willing to bet even alot of RPers wont touch it should that happen because even an RPer wants to level up a toon now and then.

As for a farm, i basicly altered my old farm. I have enemies that are fire melee/regen. The minions are standard standard with added Revive. The lts. are hard/standard wiht added revive. The bosses are standard standard with no extra powers.

I will usally farm the map at a setting of +2-3 (usally 2) 8 man teams. I spawn the map alone, and then invite my second account. All the bosses become Lts. Whch i personally feel for a time situtation allows me to work the map faster. Any mob orbuild would work just as well your just needing to tailor the powre choices to optimise for the toon you use to kill the mission. But since i already had a fire armor brute and tanker those seemed like the easiest route to me.

I think it would be helpful to know ultimately what you want from all the power selections. My opinion of Fire/ is that out of the 9 powers there is really only like 5 maybe tops that you really need. So i dont see why then figure that you skip Mudpots in favor of hotfeet, why you should have a problem taking almost everything else in the secondary.

Or are you planning on loading up on pool sets?

Also keeping in mind that Hotfeet, and mudpots are very expensive for end use. So then with earth assualt having no end regen like consume, you willhave to get it from the epic pools, which have longer recharges on them. It could be problematic for end use.

My approach to dominators has always been that the control is a means to an end. I know its the primary, but i just feel that the control i use, is only needed to allow me time to kill a mob in saftey. Fire offers that with IMO a smaller amount of power choices.

My typical fire toon would basicly be like Char, Fire cages, Hotfeet, Flash Fire, Cinders and imps. Now small radius or not when you factor in the disorients in the secondary of earth. IMO you should be able to fit in everything but mudpots with 5-6 slots per power if wanted. And as has been mentioned could probably skip hurl boulder if you wanted to.

I kinda feel like maybe your looking to skip the wrong powers. IMO skipping things like smoke and bonfire are alot better then skipping the EA powers of the secondary.

I am not quite sure it can be done anymore. I had a mission that i had set up similar to how the OP described. I loved it for the pure mayhem i could fight. But after issue 16 went live the mission errors, and says that i can only place 3 ambushes. Though the map still says it supports 20 or something like that.

I also think they fixed the spawn points. It used to be with that map there was only 3 spawn points in the back room. So if you placed a boss and like 18 defendable objects you got one boss spawnn and like 18 objects all stacked up on the other 2 spawn points. It wasnt one ambush it was actually 18 ambushes spawning all at the same time.

I have not figued out how to duplicate it yet. It was a ton of fun to fight, though i can see it being farmable for sure, with the difficulty changes and SSK i dont see why it had to be removed. Like everything else fun, the devs seems to have a stick up thier rears about anything that is just a blast to make if it seems at all farmable.

the AH takes a cut twice. It takes part of the fee when you fist post the item for auction to help prevent people from posting multiple times to get the best price. Its non-refundable if you pull the item down and repost it for a higher or lower price. Then upon sale it takes the balance of the fee based on whatever you sold it for as afinal price.

So im pretty sure at least some of the time your losing money. However you might pull off an extra sale here and there, where someone bid more then 1.1 million and you make money off it. Or other auctions are helping the cost of the ones your losing money on. So in gross your profiting but some sales are costing you money.

I didnt say i would care if it happened, i would probably be ambivilent about it, but i dont think it would be as game breaking as people seem to think. In fact as i said, i dont deal with the RMT spammer sites, but i probably would think about spending the money with NC Soft. All I am saying is i thought about it wanted to know what others thought, but being the overwhelming opposition to the idea, ihave found myself probably argueing more for the idea then i would otherwise have done so, just to try and counter some of the comments that are arising i dont agree with would happen or would matter.

Trust me i am not floating in money either.

However if you could save up every few month to buy a new cape and costume set, which is essentially all the 10 dollar boosters are, i would probably preffer personally to save up to buy a IO pack booster set.

As for effecting those without money. Well my personal experience is when things are either not in demand or have a great supply on the Markets that the price of them goes down. So if either less players are bidding for those purples on the market or less players are in need of using the market to get that one set they really wanted, then i would imagine that the cost of them would be reduced for all those players still using the markets for their purchases. So you dont have money to buy the booster, but you have time in game your playing, when you go to the market wouldnt it benefit you if an apocolypse set peice you needed was only 100 million rather then the 180 or more they sell for now?

As far as how you spend the money you have, that is a players choice. It always has been. Just as i have 2 accounts, i have CHOOSEN to not purchase the boosters for the second account because of the money issues in real life. That doesnt change no matter what the boosters offer, i either have the money for them or i dont. And weather the boosters offered fluff or usable items, so long as a player isnt required to have them to enjoy the game experience then nothing has changed from the current system of boosters. Everyone says that IOs are not a requirment of the game, so if a player wanted to spend money on a boost set of them, isnt that just as much fluff as if a player wanted the magic cape to fit his toons design and theme?

BTW if you havent noticed, im bored lately and i do like to argue. I dont think this will ever happen or should happen, just seemed like a fun topic to start up a discussion on.

Im pretty sure there was an acception for dependent minors to that rule of 2 players on one account.

As to the OPer, frankly i dont see a way of doing it, i have never heard of it being done atleast. However, and you know this might not go over well with some, depending on the level of your main toon, you could probably take all the stuff out of him you want to keep, money IOs etc and then delete him, and remake him on second account. And being that i16 hasnt hit quite yet, its not to hard to find a "Team" that would probably get him back up to level for you in no time.

I am not saying i would or have used the sites, merely that they already exist. The fact is that someone can already effect their toons abilities based on the amount of money they have to spend. Which was a concern of many that they would be competing against those that have more free money then them.

As for the farmer sites, when i was checking prices on my previous posts, the two sites i looked at delt of pay pal, so again no real problems with credit info. I guess my feelings are that though its wrong and against the EULA, it happens already in game. And i cant think of ever hearing of someone being banned for buying it. So imo why not let the money go to those that actaully are going to benefit our game with thier profits rather then those just profiting.

Which one of the considerations i put in place was that to purchase it you had to do so with a level 50 character. Exempting a level 50 to a TF or mission already skews those numbers anyway.

Which is why i also said that only one boost could be purchased per level 50. So sure i guess someone could buy multipe boosters on multiple toons and move the product around, but eventually they would hit the wall of what they could buy, and either have a few really decked out toons and others with nothing, or have spread around the wealth to have a few good toons well slotted.

My original thought was we see alot of crying about how those with the will and time to farm are going to far exceed what a normal player can accomplish. These people already appear in game with maxed out purple out toons that are skewing the numbers when your teaming with them or fighting them or whatever. There are usally some sets that almost everyone could get if the choose to, but there are a handful of sets that are just a pain to earn what is needed.

Yes a player can play the market, but again it becomes a time issue. Though its not hard to play the market, if i only have an hour or so to play a night and have to spend 20-30 minutes managing my market sales and crafting that is going to take a substanial amount of my play time away from me. And frankly were say for my dominators a sleep, hold, or stun set isnt terrible for a purple purchase, for a toon like my blaster or scrappers or brutes the damage sets, well lets just say if i pooled all the cash i had on either side, i probably couldnt still afford a full set for any one power.

Now on the flip side, having limited ability to microtransaction some of my wants, relieves me of the burden of playing just for those gains. Especially with the new difficulty slider coming, my best chance to earn these items in game at present would be to slot for 8 team members, and just run my 2 accounts, not teaming since my purple drop could go to a team memeber and not me. So again if moderate players had the ability to buy some of the products doesnt that open up more time for them to just play, team and have a good time in the game with others?

I truely believe that for this game to keep going that the devs at some point are going to have to up revenues. Going Rogue is probably going to do so for the time being. However I dont think simple 10 dollar boosters will cover that gap for long. As players see more and more that they are just costumes and emotes and start turning up their noises to yet anther 10 dollars. So i think the choices become either more often and paid expansions, or finding other in game items that wont totally blow away the community but have enough worth to keep players wishing to purchase them. Im not really fighting to see this put in, its really just more of a boredom, discussion topic for me at this point. Im tired of arguing in the i16 discussion and feedback threads.

I find the current boosters to be fine. THey are fluff items yes, but i usally buy them, atleast for one of my accounts. And yes i understand that the current boosters offer no real playing advantages, however with a non-existant PVP community in the game i didnt see a reason why having boosters that offer an advantage to be a problem. Its not like when i am running a TF if the person next to me spent the 15 bucks it would matter to my game or not.

But since the current boosters tend to be selling well, and are around 10 bucks for fluff, my idea was to offer something nicer, but for just slightly more. So that anyone who spends 10 bucks could probably spend 15 for a better booster pack that actually helped their character. And i also didnt want it to become a who can afford the most, which is why i (thought i suggested i will have to re-read it) that i said no more then 1 booster pack could be purchased for any character, and it was only availible to a level 50 character.

I also figured the effect on the market would help players not wanting to spend the real money. As we have seen with the Tickets from MA, having rare recipies become more steadily availible (like LotG rech and Miracle rec) the cost on them has gone down, in some cases very dramaticly. Where with MA farms purples have gotten more rare and prices have gone up. So IMO having an outlet to help get some of these items means that there are less customers looking for market purchases so the prices will go down as demand has gone down, so that if you cant afford 15 dollars to buy something, you atleast will likely be able to make your ingame money go farther. So still a benefit to those that wont or cant buy from a microtransaction.

Im not unhappy or wanting to drop alot of cash to build a character, im the opposite really. Im fine as things are, I get what i want usally off markets and drops and tickets, and live without the things i feel are to time consuming to worry about, like purples. I was just posting in another thread about how few purple sets i have among all my level 50s, and just thought what would i spend for these if im not willing to put in the time. And thought what others would think.

Oh another side benefit would be the RMT farmers adn tells and stuff would probably dry up. And personally i would rather see people giving money to NC Soft to help keep the game developed then to foriegn farm mills to get the influence,infamy or whatever they wanted. But like i said, was just curious really as to the opinions of others.

As well as having WW and BM tied in to each other for sales. But that is a different QoL issue, but i could see with Going Rogue, people changing sides to slot out a toon for cheaper then changing back so why not just combine the inventories while they work on this character property transfer idea as well.

Or you could make a new permission table. Say make a deposite box. It can hold up to 20 items (insp, ehancers, recipies, salvage) and unlimited money. You on one character deposite what you like to into the box, then you are prompted on who the deposite box is intended for. You select a character from your SG list of toons. When that toon is log in he gets a prompt saying a deposite has been reserved for him in the base. He goes into the base and picks it up. He would be the only one that can pick it up, or the original player/character can cancel the deposite and take his items back. No abuse possible from fly by night SG members.

• My alts all know each other, their in my Sg together, and villian group for that matter. So it would stand to reason they would share for the greater good. Did batman send the Justice League a bill for the watchtower?
• Ummmm, couldnt a player just make a craptastic free email account, send an "invite a friend" request to himself and then use that 14 days to transfer what he needed? This just wastes the invites, the time and demeens the entire puprose of the invite a friend system. Seems to me there should be another alternative.
• Friends are always good to use, but it does get old to keep bothering people to help you.
• "Honey, i have dreamed of the day when we can get married and spend the rest of our lives together, plus a really need someone to transfer 150 million influence to my new blaster. And out of all my other options, i picked you." I cant see that flying personally, but maybe i just married someone with to much self respect to settle with being my mule.
• he isnt given the choice is he? Which is why he is in here making the suggestion. We have had over the years tons of QoL improvements based on player requests. I can still remember not being able to trade more then 10k influence in one shot. It was insane.

Now the Devs never intended alot of things that still became needed. The devs never intended for a global chat system, never intended for IOs, never intended to nerf pvp, nerf hamiOs, nerf defenses and resistances, nerf ..... well we could go on all night there.

However if not a simple trading mechanism i personally think a SG base addition would be most welcome. Something that can store recipies, something that can store money. We basicly have 2 systems to store salvage in our bases, a system to store hancer, and a system to store inspiration. Being about the only other thing there is we "collect" is recipies and money, i dont see why allowing for a vault to store influence for the SG, or recipies would be to big of a request. Your group would end up paying for it in its rent, and to purchase the item to place, and you could drop something in it, and have it be able to be retrieved by a SG member you choose.

Negative rep granted for using the wrong forum.

Ok well first off, i think there are enough enhancements availible of different types to cover just about anyones needs. Lest we all forgot that HamiOs are still in the game and can be bought on the BM and WWs often.

But more over i think it just makes things to easy. Part of the trade off when slotting many set peices is that the totals might be just lower then you could get with a Common IO slotting but the set bonuses make up for that.

But in your example of wanted to combine a acc/dam and a dam/end into one power. By level 50 you can basicly get that buff or more with almost the same level of slotting or just one more. Say early on it would be nice, you only have 2 open slots. But once you put a third one on there, your combine acc of 21.8 percent, dam of 43.6, and end of 21.8 with 3 slots can total 44% acc, 44% damage, and 44% end red. So you double your acc and end red and stay almost static on damage with just one more slot added.

Its managing your slotting, its a trade off sometimes but its part of the game and character creation. Now just for kicks lets say you buy or get a Hamio, you can slot a centroile which would give you 33.3 percent acc and damage buff, and slot another set peice from a damage set for the damage/end red for the 21.8 or so percent and suddenly with 2 slots you got 33.3 acc, 55ish damage, 21.8 end red. So still a bonus.

I guess i just accept the trade offs more easily then others. Like when slotting a damage dealing power i pretty much accept im running 2 acc, 3 damages, and the 6th slot if i use it, is whatever i think it needs most, end red or recharge or whatever. But i think if you look really hard you can find ALMOST any combination of powers and effects represented in the current IO sets, HamiOs, etc. Its just not as easy or cheap as making it at a creation station probably, but honestly not everything needs to be easy.

But for true issues of not having a set that properly represents an ability, my suggestion is rather then suggesting a set up that can be used to franken slot every power you get and basicly could negate a ton of other IO sets, why not make the suggestion in relation to the specific power you have issues with. So if you have a say a single target hold. Most of which will take damage hancers, but the current sets for holds dont have damage as a buffable option, then suggest a new hold set that would buff that attribute as an option to taking a different set. So from IOs a player would then have the option for holds of a set that either exceeds at acc, hold, and rech, or maybe one that has acc, hold and damage or acc, dam, recharge, and end or something like that. Where the set gives a choice not represented currently with IO sets for a specific power.

I think it would be alot easier for the devs to create all new IO sets being the mechanism is already in place for it, then to create an all new hancer system for combination of hancers never ment to be combined.

My other concern would be more what it would mean for power balance. Again going to the idea of trade offs, it would allow for slotting alot more returns from powers that IMO would be normally having to have a trade off. For instance, with this new idea, a power like combat jumping takes on new gains. Before you might slot an end red, mabye a couple defenses and a couple jumps. But with the system you suggest, you could make a end/def, end/jump, jump/def and then slot mabye a jump and a def of their own. So now before you take into account ED returns you could have about 52% end red, 96% jumping, and about 66% def boost, all from 6 slots. That is basicly allowing for 2 stats to be almost maxed if not maxed, and still benefiting from other returns. Now figure that someone takes CJ, Hover, Stealth and anyother cheap power choices that offer similar returns and you could i think see that it could dramaticly skew the powers in the game. Atleast that would be my opinion.

And also then why would the pre-20 level game be getting the xp boost rather then the post 35 game?