Psygon

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I'd be lying if I said the above statement didn't have an element of truth to it. Based on my observations and my experiences I do think this. I'm sorry if that offends anyone, but thats how bad I view AP.

For example, today I was playing with my Ice/Kin troller, with an empath who had AP. The AP used on me was quite frankly OTT, it wasn't needed but was used anyways. My own heals saved the empath, ironically. The point is that I generally see empaths use AP when there is not much health that needs healing, and I rarely see it being used on somebody who has precious little health left. So on that basis I am going to think poorly of those who use AP. Yes it is a sweeping statement, and no I haven't seen/played with anyone who are shining examples of proper/correct useage of AP.

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I would agree - in the situation you describe above that is OTT, and in my opinion isn't really the time to use AP. Using it as a general heal when it's not really needed is probably going to get any empath into trouble.

But, not everyone that has AP uses it the way you've described. Infact, the people that have responded to this thread are discussing its use as a "Oh my, that hero only has 5 hps left, I'll use my AP".

I know I've saved people from death when they were redlining by using absorb pain - and I mean seriously redlining (can think of a few examples involving alpha strikes for example). Sure I could probably have used heal other and maybe ran in for a quick heal aura... but on an 8 player team with 1 empath it's nice to save those (and myself!) for the squishies

I'm personally not offended by your view... I do think it's a shame that you've obviously never teamed with an Empath that knows how to use such a great power

As regards to PvP... I have used AP on one of the few occasions when I played it (I'll make no bones about it I'm rubbish at PvP) and was quite suprised that it didn't result in insta-death

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I just find it strange It's just my opinion of course and going from my own experience of Absorb Pain making a difference. I took absorb pain when it became available on Psygon and used it as and when it was needed.

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And I find it odd vice versa. Like I stated before, I've never found myself whereby AP would have made a difference.

Maybe its a tactics thing, if the tank needs that big of a heal, partly because ppl are running round corners blindly, then thats to do with the players rather than the overall asset of AP.

Its funny, coz my Lvl 50 Rad Defender can keep the team alive without the need of a target heal, Heal Other is handy on an empath, but AP is just overkill...

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Regarding the comment about your rad defender... I'd agree you don't need a target heal, the way you are defending your team is by debuffing the enemies not by healing and buffing the team (as much) so it's difficult to draw a comparison. I've kept teams alive quite nicely with my Kinetics defender without a target heal as well - but I would never draw a comparison between her and my empath... the way I play them in a team environment is just so different.

I do think that pretty much everything you are saying is the idea that any empath that has absorb pain or any player that needs to be healed using absorb pain is a bad player though - and I just don't think that's true. I think there are situations and circumstances that warrant having that emergency button.

I think we might just have to agree to disagree tho... I very much doubt that either one of us is swaying the others opinion on the power

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How come you find that strange? I've been on teams that fought AVs ( I dinged in the shadows, possibly the first on the euro servers), but never encountered a situation whereby AP would have made any difference.

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I just find it strange It's just my opinion of course and going from my own experience of Absorb Pain making a difference. I took absorb pain when it became available on Psygon and used it as and when it was needed.

I'm not saying it was needed in every single fight I went in to, nor that teams were bad and need to recruit tanks (mostly because I was already teamed with one...), nor that the teams I was on didnt know what they were doing... but I will say that there were the odd occasions where someone would peep their head round a corner (it's human nature) or someone would walk into a group that they hadn't noticed had a boss/AV in. Absorb Pain worked wonders for those moments to get someone back up to full health straight away.

Sure, it's not for everyone and sure it's not 100% needed in a build... but in my opinion it's a nice extra button to have in my power trays because you never know when next someone might have a moment of temporary blindness

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It depends on how you play

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I think that's the key point, AP isn't for everyone. I never took it on Empath until I got to level 50, and I did fine without it. But after taking it, I didn't want to lose it! (and now I can't)

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although the implication above is that only Empaths that team on bad teams need absorb pain... which I would disagree with... otherwise almost every team I have ever been on is a bad team...

surely that can't be true...

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Yeah, I would disagree with that as well...even the best teams can run into trouble.

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yup... and it's always handy to have a quick emergency button. In my opinion anyway

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It depends on how you play

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I think that's the key point, AP isn't for everyone. I never took it on Empath until I got to level 50, and I did fine without it. But after taking it, I didn't want to lose it! (and now I can't)

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although the implication above is that only Empaths that team on bad teams need absorb pain... which I would disagree with... otherwise almost every team I have ever been on is a bad team...

surely that can't be true...

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Never took it. Never found a reason to waste a powerslot on AP. Never been in a situation whereby AP would have turned the tide.

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honestly... I find that strange. Even on the best teams I've been on when I have been happily doing the odd bit of buffing, but mostly just chatting to people there have always been occasions where having absorb pain has been useful.

Sure, it's not the power to end all powers... nor has it necessarily turned the tide... but "waste a powerslot" ? it's a useful power to have whether back up power ot not - how can a heal ever be a wasted power?

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Failing that, if you derive satisfaction from watching things go *BOOOOM*, with the ensuing Ragdoll confetti of bodies, go for it too.

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that's me getting timebomb then

Cheers for the response...

I think given that it will be mostly PvE I will go for Taser, I like the idea of perma-mezzing malta... should get them back nicely for all those times they stunned my Empath... (and yes, I am vindictive)

With regards time bomb. What do you mean "flexiable enough to get used to it" ? Are there only particular strategies that work with this power or...?

I always thought that the end recovery on adrenalin boost was so good it wasn't worth slotting for that... hence why I go for heals and recharges.

Of course, this could just be something I imagined when I last did my respec....

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If you want to get attacks then Stamina is usefull but you said you wanted to be a pure empath..personally I'd get rid of a lot of your attacks and get the leaping pool for your own security and SJ in missions can be a real help.

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well, he only has 5 attacks that I can see (4 primary and 1 epic) so it's not like he is building in a huge amount anyway...

One thing I would say... if you are going for a balanced team with 1 of each AT then I think you might find that you won't actually have all that much to do a lot of the time (unless the tank is an ice tank ). To swap out attacks means there will be even less to do so I would be really wary of getting rid of attacks... particularly for swapping it to Acrobatics (which I have on a blaster and have seen on several defenders and just don't think it's worth it tbh!)

I would take clearmind though... but perhaps not till later on. One thing I've seen quite a lot in later levels, where mobs start draining endurance, is tanks getting stunned. To have a back up of clearmind just incase seems quite sensible to me... after all once the tanks falls you're the last line of defence

I can't remember exactly off the top of my head what I have on it... it's probably 2 x recharge, 2 x def buff, 2 x hit buff - one of them is a hami-o, tho can't remember which one...

It's possible that my 3-4 comes from teaming a lot with kinetics recently. It might actually be 3 in most instances

I usually do one of two things:

Check see if we have any one lower than the rest of the team - usually -2 lvls - they would usually get fortitude first

Then check who the big damage dealers are (usually going to be a scrapper or blaster) and fortitude them next.

If a controller/blaster/defender accidentally gets themselves too much aggro I would forti them as required...

I can usually keep 3-4 people with fortitude on...

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You should definitely get hasten and SS to get invisibility for trip mine and time bomb, also I'd say drop buckshot and pick burst as it's more useful.

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I used to have burst before a respec some time ago... I took buckshot so that I could AOE more bad guys... maybe not the greatest idea I admit...

Is timb bomb worth getting then? At the moment I only really battle mine... I wait for the dark defender I team with to fear and tarpatch the mob and then I just run in and mine at their feet as they are either slowly running away or are feared. It's quite effective so far...

I have considered the SS route but I have to admit I really wanted to avoid getting hasten on this build... and I can't really see myself with flurry!

At the moment my cloaking device stacks with the DD's shadow fall... would it also stack with stealth?

mostly PvE with perhaps a small foray into PvP if I can convince the Dark Defender I team with that his fear and my mines might be mildly amusing...

I have a AR/Devices blaster that I've recently resurrected (lvl 31) and I'm stuck on a power choice for lvl 35...

The powers I have are:

slug, buckshot, beanbag, sniper rifle, flamethrower, ignite from the primary (and planning to take full auto at 32)

Web grenade, caltrops, targetting drone, cloaking device and tripmine from the secondary

Powerpools are Fitness (swift, health stamina) and superjump (combat jumping, superjump and acrobatics (not as happy with this as I thought I would be...)

Anyway, I was going to take time bomb at 35 but I spoke to some devices blasters and they said that without really having superspeed to add to my invisibility it wouldn't be that useful... so I'm now considering one of the following:

Taser - to combine with beanbag for a bit more stunning
TP Foe - for amusing TP bad guys on to mines
Assault - to make my attacks a bit more powerful (really not sure on this one...)
Haste - so that I could get SS later perhaps

Any advice? anything lacking from what I've got in my build so far??

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And last point, don't compare the novae, they are totally useless for an empathy defender.

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Totally useless? Why?

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Because I've got a no fun vision of empathy defenders, I'm from the old school and I consider that you should be able anytime to save your team's life. And if you use your nova, going ooe all a sudden and it misses so everyone is slowly dying, where is your blue bar, to make your job ?

It's a really fun power but it doesn't fit very well to my concept of empathy "keep on buffing, always ready to help my teammmate, the less aggro possible on me".

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Well... surely a really great empath defender who keeps on buffing can afford to lose their endurance for a little while because their team has been so well buffed up to that point that 30 seconds isn't going to make all that much difference... plus, like someone said - that's what blue inspirations are for.

Empaths play for the team about 95% of the time... I think it's good to let them have a little 5% explosion where they can go wooooo! Any team that can't handle that is just being selfish

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But he saids he needs it for the portal jockey accolade, which you don't. it's every praetorian AV except Tyrant, Multidimensional mission badge and a history badge, which I forget. Authority maybe, but any badge guide will have it.

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you also need the Shrouded exploration badge (which comes from the Nightstar AV mission).

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Yeah, it's not a power I use all the time, especially not if I have aggro, anyone who does that deserves to die!

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um, use absorb pain a fair amount on large teams where I am the primary defender/healer class there. Generally blast as well (my build deliberatly has lots of attacks in cos, well, I like them). Haven't died from absorb pain since the last time I deliberatly suicided next to someone for the amusement value...

Maybe I'm usually on good teams but I've never really understood the "absorb pain is bad" argument...

well... thanks for the advice. I actually used Superior Invisibility last night on my controller and you're right - what an endurance hog!

Just out of interest PRAF68 you haven't taken flash arrow... any particular reason? I took this at 4 and open every fight with it (slotted it for accuracy and acc debuff...) is this not actually worth it? (even if it's not it looks cool...)

oh right - that's a bit of an Endurance hog then?

hmm, was really hoping not to have to take stamina so I could get 3 other powers

I rolled a new controller this weekend - Illusion/Trick Arrow - and I've been playing around with the build. I just wondered if anyone has played this and can tell me whether Stamina is needed? I know the recharge times on Trick Arrow are pretty slow so I was thinking that I may not need it at all but any advice welcomed

Well bugs... I think you and your mistypes will be sadly missed... I hope that real life proves great for a while and then gets boring again so you come back soon!

It has been great fun teaming with you since the days of Psygon and I want to say thanks for all the times you've helped me out with missions and teams and stuff like that

It's been great having you in the SG too!

Anyways... best of luck out there... wrap warm and drive safely!

hey, welcome back Quant!

Are you going to have a welcome home party now?

Nice one Miss Killah... have a big gratz from your Monkey chums

Big gratz to Mercy Clare (Katana/Inv) scrapper who got the christmas present she really wanted, and dinged 50 on Christmas day!

It's been great teaming with you on the later stages of your route there - and I'm dead pleased you joined the Iron Monkeys

Here's to your next 50 with Faith (or Monkey Minx!!)