PrincessDarkstar
-
Posts
1698 -
Joined
-
Recluse does something like 4000+ on one of his, that must be the hardest
Other I can think of is Dra'gon, who hits with either cremate or incinerate for a good few ticks of 400+ -
Bumping this once* to see if anyone has any comments?
*I promise I won't bump it again. -
Quote:While the answer is probably still yes it is worth noting that Gaidin is using Fireball from the scrapper epic pools to boost his AoE damage and that isn't available to brutes. So a brute would likely not farm as well as a scrapper unless there is an equivalent in their epic pools (And I don't know).Originally Posted by Motley_Cruel
So you can successfully use it for farming?
The survivability side of things would still be good enough though. -
I also find DPS isn't a great measure of AoE powers, since you never have a situation where you can just sit and chain them like you do against single targets.
LR/SC are great because they give you that burst of damage that takes out most of a mob and spend their time recharging between fights, rather than in the middle of a mob. Mathematically LR/SC may not work out the best, but in practice they do.
Edit: I run at +0 or +2/x8 so that may change if I bumped up to +4/x8
-
I have had a search through the forums but either Fire/Elec is very unpopular, or I am just useless at searching since the only thread I found said "Ignore this thread", so if I have somehow missed the info I am looking for please forgive me
Anyway, the idea of this build is to be a single target beast, since I use my Elec/Shield for when I am in an AoE mood, and I understand the best attack chain is Cremate > Incinerate > GFS for which I need something like 240% recharge in GFS.
The other aim of this character is good survivability, so I was aiming for about 20-30% defence to all (I aimed for positional defence over typed).
Endurance usage pretty much takes care of itself by the looks of it
The build I have made at the moment does actually tick all those boxes, but it just doesn't look very nice to me for some reason. I think it might be the slightly low melee defence, but it could also be because I am quite close to perma-Hasten (And I think that would mean perma-Energise?).
Can anyone else improve on the build (Without including PvP IO's):
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Fire Elec: Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Electric Armor
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fire Sword -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(39), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(40), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(46), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(46)
Level 1: Charged Armor -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(39), RctvArm-EndRdx/Rchg:40(39), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(40), RctvArm-ResDam:40(40)
Level 2: Lightning Field -- Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(3), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg:50(3), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx:50(37), Armgdn-Dam%:50(37)
Level 4: Conductive Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:30(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(5), RctvArm-EndRdx/Rchg:40(5), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(36), RctvArm-ResDam:40(37)
Level 6: Cremate -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(9), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(9)
Level 8: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit:50(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg:50(15), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx:50(15), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx:50(34), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:50(36), GSFC-Build%:50(36)
Level 10: Static Shield -- ImpSkn-ResDam/EndRdx:30(A), ImpSkn-ResDam/Rchg:30(11), ImpSkn-EndRdx/Rchg:30(11), ImpSkn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:30(13), ImpSkn-Status:30(13)
Level 12: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 14: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(43), Numna-Heal:50(46)
Level 16: Grounded -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(17), RctvArm-EndRdx/Rchg:40(17), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(31), RctvArm-ResDam:40(34)
Level 18: Fire Sword Circle -- Oblit-Dmg:50(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(19), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(19), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(23), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(23), Oblit-%Dam:50(50)
Level 20: Energize -- Numna-Heal/Rchg:50(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:50(21), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg:40(21), H'zdH-Heal/Rchg:40(45)
Level 22: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(25), RechRdx-I:50(25)
Level 26: Incinerate -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(27), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(27), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(29), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(29)
Level 28: Lightning Reflexes -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 30: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(31), Zephyr-ResKB:50(31)
Level 32: Greater Fire Sword -- Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(33), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg:50(33), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), Hectmb-Dam%:50(34)
Level 35: Power Sink -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 38: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(42), RctvArm-EndRdx/Rchg:40(42), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(42), RctvArm-ResDam:40(43), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(43)
Level 44: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(45), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(45)
Level 47: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), Zephyr-Travel:50(48), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(48), Zephyr-ResKB:50(48)
Level 49: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(50), Zephyr-ResKB:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Code:Note: There may be a few sets where I could for example drop a pure def IO for the def/end, but I will figure that out when I give the build a better once over, it is more the set bonus' I am looking for advice on.| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1408;696;1392;HEX;| |78DAA5935B53526114863F044404048F28A21C3C20A02877A9358DE5616AA471B2B| |CAA688B5FCA0C21B3A199EAAA8B6AA6C35FE8AEE34F68FA27D54FE8DC6587DD5AEB| |FD64EABA3DFA3E9B8FB5D77AD75AECD2CDD5A052774E2A57CFE99AD56C96B72BB6D| |56868DB77CE6ADDB0AD9A7FBD6AEBE45A4D577C4AA9D8D1D7E592AE695D58AF6AFB| |16EE13EDAF56F5355D6FEA023FD4B2AB95F28A7DFDD0EE3D533FD0B6AEB70A4737C| |1ADC3C31AA568D575B3D92D1FB61B5AEF85CCF9FE41AB5ADF47D4A6B61AF4A16FAD| |51AD144ED5ACDBBA5CB29A2DAA3E4CB6B2F47F97FDC9E578D45542514D5B82CCAE6| |06E0FD0820F2182CB848FD34D464D2780A4209302D2828F14EE32E1AEC50ECED0B1| |042C0B268F0327049F28DC6DC2DD9C7D4C7990DD83EC13C83E89ECF7C8BBD778F7C| |27B274C7756045DF0DE05EFF7291CDD3A5EDF5329D8F30C782E48BD104CBC045E09| |3E9327BFF1E41F114FDD316054108C0363022F5508205C05E6A4AE8F8E4238EA089| |D15E7B91D970CF5A2E00B95089B12610C3582B623687B1C6DA7D0F603CAD76BFAE8| |FD2126FB7E02BF0443BF014750546EC6572AD28F22EEFE6DA93B50023624EDEC8AA| |08BB20F9A060693D2409A8EA2A681685E8E86FFC1430A18318B18C1226258440C8B| |886311712CE21B591935254631A3091F0F0F25C6DE8AEFF177C07BC1230A4898128| |98C1C2567802C90C30EF382EF54222D3F5447A55352C24519A690414D397429379D| |CCC08777262AEBCB62FC59CC3D8B2DE430F71CB6E0A1A7F2661AF94199E0EC00101| |10C5140C14CBA808079B4348F96E6D15294E2164CCF0B082822A08880B8A7FD6ED2| |1F3BDEFCFB0493DBF29817928E5C5847C2D37E49FFEB7A1D3CAAE63FDF4D7A81658| |B6587E512CB65962B2C16CB2E4B85C579D37E3A7C8C0D2DB22CB12CB33CE6205F80| |24C0126409B1F4B08459222CFD2C432C3196272CCE1FE754F7E8| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
My last 2 questions are: Is this actually a good idea for a toon? And does anyone know how it will work in PvP*?
*I don't actually care, but it would be nice to have a toon that worked well there for once without requiring a complete rebuild. -
Quote:I am not knocking being able to solo an AV, but I am saying it isn't why anyone invites a tank to the team. Also if you have that kind of single target DPS sit still and use it, don't run about wasting it. Taunt the mobs that need taunting and kill whatever is stupid enough to come close.Originally Posted by Rylas
Doesn't anyone who solo's an AV sit their for ages? The point is that you have to have high DPS to overcome the regen of an AV. If a tank can obtain this, then it's not so poor.
Yes it does come from playing smart but it comes just as much from adapting. If you have Taunt you can adapt better than if you don't. If Taunt was a 3rd tier power in a power pool that you wasted 2 picks to get I would understand not taking it, but since it is in your primary I don't.Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
But that's the thing, you keep bringing up team synergy. You're big argument is team synergy. It doesn't come from just a tank. And certainly not if he has one power. In comes from everyone playing smart, and playing together. Demanding taunt means you expect yourself to make the mistakes too much. That makes you (general you) an idiot.
Oh I would never demand it, I wouldn't even kick a tank for skipping all his armor because each to his own. But I would never recommend not getting it.Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
We're not saying some tanks couldn't get a lot of taunt, after all WP tanks have weak aggro for their primary. No, we're just saying demanding from all tanks is silly, rude and trollish.
I knew what you meant I was just being ... something.Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
You misunderstand. Moral high ground doesn't necessarily have to do with morals. It's in reference to your superiority-complex which exudes from almost every statement you've made.
I do tend to have that superiority complex thing going on (Only when I write for some reason, guess its the anonimity), so I apologise if I have come across as rude or anything.
While I have seen several builds worse off with too much defence I get your point, but it is wrong, because getting that 60% defence means sacrificing something, but taking Taunt in I would guess 99% of cases doesn't sacrifice anything, and if going for defence on a toon I would actually say helps with the build due to set bonus'.Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
Weak argument. I've never seen a tank worse off for achieving a 60% defense. It doesn't mean it's needed.
Sorry, you just happened to say a very similar thing to the poster above you so I thought I would clarrify my point.Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
Wow, splitting hairs on semantics. That's an even better argument. By "Just fine," I can assure you that I have no issues with my tanks. Whether they have taunt or not. We're not agreeing to disagree, if you insist on saying those tanks without taunt are bad tanks, or can't be good tanks (or even great tanks). You're just being ignorant.
I AM saying that not taking Taunt prevents you from being a good tank in the situations where a tank is most needed. You can be a good tank against most mobs, but that isn't hard. The hard thing for tanks is AV's etc, where Taunt is almost a necessity.
Imagine an AV fight without Taunt, that Dark/Shield scrapper next to you would rip aggro away from you in no time, if you took Taunt he wouldn't. That is the difference between a good tank in most situations and a good tank in all situations.
I repeat, I would never judge someone for not taking it, nor would I kick anyone or mark them down. But I use these forums for getting the best advice, and I 100% believe taking Taunt is the best thing to do. It wouldn't really be the tank signature power otherwise. -
Quote:Running through groups as I mentioned above is something I do. Once. I get the aggro on me just like you do and I keep it on me just like you do. But using Taunt means I can take a slightly faster route through the mobs, and I can catch runners or incomings, or AV's whereas you can't as easily.Originally Posted by Rylas
Well, that's what you think. Try going without it and have the ambition of overcoming your need for taunt. As an Ice/ tank. I can run very quickly to each group and hold their aggro. With CJ and hurdle and plenty of slow resist, I have no issue gathering scattered groups. You might try it sometime and push past your comfort zone. Who knows, you may even like it. It should at least be a new challenge for you (this time it's a specific you).
Being an Ice tank means you can jump in and out of mobs, but not all tanks can do that, so while you can hold group aggro well enough without taunt, I still doubt you can do the same with AV's, which is the only time a tank is ever really needed anyway.
I haven't seen anyone herd in a long time, it really has no place anymore since most groups are close enough to fit into a single AoE already, and herding 2 mobs is useless due to AoE caps. Steamrollering 1 mob at a time is far more efficient, but then you don't need a tank for that at all.Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
You're making a lot of assumptions here, princess (read that like Han Solo uses the word). I won't speak for Aett, but my play style with my usual team, and many PUGs is to herd up a group. If this is a well rounded team, they'll have them locked down in no time and once half the herd is gone, I'm off hunting down the next herd so that it's ready when my team finishes. No slow down for the team. Sure, they had to wait a little bit for that first herd, but we all played like a team and cleared the map pretty damn fast.
I also have an abundance of scrappers should I ever feel the need for damage, and my Elec/Shield scrapper would match your Ice tank for running ahead and herding (And surviving), but would also kill the mob before the team catches up.
Actually that smooth 2-attack chain with an Energy Transfer thrown in when available is the best attack chain Energy can make (I am pretty sure). I have no need for another attack that isn't as good as my current ones. I guess your dismissal of only having a short attack chain isn't an indication of your game knowledge? Which might explain why you still haven't commented on how you tank the STF without Taunt or reposition AV's in the purple patch as Sarrate said.Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
With a smooth 2-attack chain from Energy, I can see why you think tanker DPS has to be low. Hey, if that's the way you like to build them, then do so. But for me, it's boring and slow. Especially if I'm soloing. Don't expect a lot of others to want that.
I put all AT's in their place because that is there place for a reason. Tanks are good at holding aggro, and if I wasn't going to do a mission with incomings or something out of the ordinary where I needed someone to manage aggro I wouldn't bother inviting a tank. Just like I wouldn't like a scrapper with Confront who skipped half his attacks and claims he can tank, it can be done but why didn't he just roll a tank? -
Quote:Tanker damage is poor, being able to solo AV's is more about sitting there for ages whittling them down. If you care more about damage than holding aggro role a /Shield or /Invuln scrapper and do more damage while holding the same aggro.Originally Posted by Rylas
Wrong and wrong. Tanker damage is not poor. In fact, I have quite a few tanks that can melt through mobs at a very good pace. Now, it's ok if you don't want to play your tank like that. To each their own. But it doesn't make a player a bad tank because they've decided to control aggro and contribute to the damage. By your rationale, one can easily say "Letting the DPS of all teammates go all out makes the team more efficient." Because tankers can still provide high enough DPS. If you don't believe so, you need to speak to those tank who can solo AVs (sans temp powers).
No it is still irrelevent, bringing in an idiot who shoots the wrong mob just goes to show your arguement is weak. Also even in that case a good taunt would bring 5/6 of those 10 over to you and take you 1.67 seconds, the blaster then only has 4 to handle.Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
No, it's relevant. Let's say I've got a group of 10 around me. The Blaster looks at another group of 10, and blasts. Well, I can jump over there fast enough without taunt and grab 7 more, but that last 3 aren't my responsibility. Nor were the other 7 (if the blaster chooses to act like a headless chicken), I just don't see any point in dead team mates.
If you leap out of your mob then unless you have a very good taunt aura (And only 3 sets do) the mobs your just lept away from will be free of your influence very quickly.
True but they happen all the time and I would rather just deal with it using a simple Taunt than have to educate or kick everyone that did that.Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
Again, an immob happy troller is an irresponsible controller (depening on group situations). You can't expect the tank to work with you, if you refuse to work with the tank. Well, you can. But you'll be considered a hypocritical tool for acting that way. Maybe you're not aware of this, but some tanks require mobs around them for their survival. A controller who won't allow a tank to have mobs around isn't being a team player.
Whats moral's got to do with it? All my tanks have Taunt so technically I do have the moral high groundQuote:Originally Posted by Rylas
No, but there are ones where a tanker may say "Damn I wish I had room for Physical Perfection/one more attack/another pool power/anything else" and for some tanks, dropping taunt is a complete possibility without dropping their performance on a team. You have no moral high ground to expect they keep it.
I am also yet to see a tank that would be worse off for taking Taunt.
Good choice of words "Just fine". Personally I like to be better than fine, I like to be good. Taunt makes my tanks better in more situations so I take it and I use it.Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
Look, some people/buids can do just fine without using taunt. Some can't. Don't generalize them all by demanding they need it when they all don't. Asking the tank to bend over for your play style isn't being a team player. If you want him to control all the aggro so you can safely let loose without thinking, then let him do aggro his way.
I know this arguement will go on forever though, as they always do. So we may as well agree to disagree
-
Quote:It is all about ambition. I don't just want to have my tank let the team survive, I want my tank to let the team survive on an MoSTF, and for that I need Taunt.Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Yes, heaven forbid the Tanker have fun. As long as the team is surviving, what does it matter if he has Taunt or not?
Also I don't know what about using Taunt is not fun, I only use it once, when leaping into a mob, and then occasionally if a squishy gets aggro or there is an ambush. It's not like it kills the experience for me and I don't get how it would for you?
I would think using all those nice attacks in the secondary and running about are not really compatible. Taunt the mobs furthest away and pound on those gathering by your feet. At least that is how I do it, though I would make a quick run by every mob initially.Quote:Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Which is exactly why it IS relevant. If you can't handle any aggro whatsoever, then you're going to have problems in the game, unless the Tanker does nothing but Tank, which isn't his job. Notice how his secondary is full of attacks. The Tanker can use them, you know. If the Tanker is at his aggro cap, then having Taunt is useless for the most part. If he isn't, the other tools at his disposal can hold aggro. Does the power Taunt make it a little easier? Yes. But it is not the only tool that he can use.
If I LIKE running around like a headless chicken, and can hold aggro efficiently while doing so, then I don't need Taunt, do I? Again, it comes down to the Tanker being able to hold the aggro, with or without Taunt.
Tanks don't get many good ranged AoE attacks though, especially at level 10. Also if you sit about letting other players die instead of doing something about it your teams must really move slow. If all players help each other out then the team moves much faster.Quote:Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
So then it is the Tankers job to make up for the mistakes of others? Why is that? Also, Taunt does very little to get the mobs around you in the first place, compared to a good AoE attack.
As a tank you have the tools to help those mistakes not be a problem.
I just made an Invuln/Energy tank and can make a smooth attack chain from 2 attacks. There comes a point when you don't need that extra attack, and I would struggle to find a tank where I can't fit Taunt in.Quote:Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Which may be true for you. For me, it may be that I wanted another attack (which generates Threat, look at that!), or maybe some more defenses. If I can put Taunt into a build, I likely will. If not, I will still do everything I can to hold the aggro.
True, but we can't really make people good players, the best we can do is give them the right tools.Quote:Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Which are not dependant on the Tanker actually USING Taunt, mind you.
True enough, but as pointed out it is only enough for the majority of the content which is fairly basic. Add in any real challenges and Taunt becomes much more useful.Quote:Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Look, the thing is this: Taunt is a great tool for generating aggro. It is not the only tool. As long as the Tanker can do what you call his "job," whether he has Taunt or not, then it shouldn't matter.
Like Sarrate said I would hate to see anyone tank the STF without Taunt. And personally I wouldn't build a tank if I wasn't thinking along those lines, it is about ambition and being the best you can, not just being good enough. -
Quote:Letting the DPS go all out makes the team more efficient, a good tank knows that his damage is always going to be poor and does his job so the others can do theirs. Otherwise that tank would be better off as a scrapper.Originally Posted by Rylas
So, what you want, is for tanks to taunt so that you, the blaster/brute don't have to think about how to play more safely? Because that's what you sound like your saying.
Bringing the aggro cap into this is irrelevent, if you are at the aggro cap then people have to be careful even if every power you have is a taunt.Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
I can build and play a tanker that doesn't have taunt. I can even keep capped aggro with said tanker. Now, if you choose to aggro something above that aggro cap I have on me, then by all means, feel free. But it's your problem at that point. Not mine. While you sweat the extra aggro you managed to pull, I'll be killing at a decently steady pace since I've managed to hold the aggro cap and put out decent damage.
But if you aren't at the aggro cap (And there is no way you will always be there) having Taunt is pretty much the safest way you can pull the aggro away from the squishies without running around like a headless chicken.
Sitting in a pile with 16 mobs round you is very easy without Taunt, its not you being an awesome player able to do it. But when the situation doesn't let you get them all close to you (Maybe an immob happy 'troller) then Taunt becomes your friend. Taunt also makes it that much quicker to get the mobs round you in the first place.
Overall there is no situation where I would think "Damn I wish I didn't have Taunt", but there are lots of situations the other way around.
Also Taunt sets get some great set bonus'
-
Quote:Never played energy blast, that makes even less sense.Originally Posted by Eiko-chan
For the same reason a fair portion of Energy Blast attacks are Smashing?
-
Quote:This. I would prefer then 100% energy actually, or brawl level damage + the rest in energy, I don't see why my energy punch would smash more than a normal punch.Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Increase the Energy Damage vs Smashing Damage ratio with the early tier attacks of the Energy Melee Tank set.
-
Quote:I am just in the lwo 20's on my inv/nrg build and must say the self damage was a worry, but I will take your word for it that it isn'tOriginally Posted by DarkInvado
Oh! I forgot to mention one thing about the above comment on Energy Transfer and the damage it does to you when you use it... NOT an issue at all with my previous build and will be even less so with the new builds increased regen. I have tanked multiple AVs at once in the STF and others and never come close to being one shotted. The damage from Energy Transfer is minimal and barely even noticeable. So for anyone considering taking it - DO! It hits like a Mac truck.
I will probably pick up the power now, because you are right, it is by far the best weapon in the energy set. -
Quote:You hit the nail on the head with your last sentence, DPS is a measure of how much damage you can cause over time, whereas DPA is a measure of how much DPS each individual attack will bring every time it is used. The difference is only really symantics, they are pretty much the same thing.Originally Posted by DarkInvado
OK I will start with the attacks, I am looking for some clarity on the DPA vs DPS. I thought DPA was Damage Per Activation and DPS was Damage Per Second. Are the stats listed above actually DPS because there is a time component there? I am assuming the second number of recharge time? Or is is the activation time? Is the best way to calculate which power is the "best" be to determine how much damage the power puts out over time? I.e. look at the attack chain and see how much damage it can put out in a sustained mannner - e.g. over 60 seconds or over one complete attack chain sequence?
Edit:
To work out DPA you divide the damage of the attack by the animation time, the recharge time is irrelevant, because you assume that somehow you will make a smooth attack chain using other attacks. The DPS of one attack is no use because you will never just use one attack without filling the gaps with something else. -
Quote:I don't know what it was like before, but it is still the worst attack in the set for DPA. I really wish they swapped it around with Energy Punch.Originally Posted by Fireheart
Okay, and I'd like to add/point-out that Barrage is no longer a 'gimp' power, as of the last 'adjustment' to EM. It's now a classic 'Tier 2' power, which just happens to be in Tier 1. It's worth slotting and using.
-
Yeah thats my bad. I am normally too pedantic to make mistakes like that
On my elec/shield scrapper I haven't quite managed perma double stacking of AD, so I fall somewhere between 95% and ~75%, but I tend to just pop a purple if I see the defence dropping, by the time the purple wears off the debuffs have worn off long ago. -
Some more thoughts:
Quote:/Shield is quite endurance heavy so Physical Perfection is a very good choice, but it would be worth monitoring your endurance and if you seem to have a surpluss it might be worth going onto the test server and seeing what happens without it.-I chose Energy Mastery as his Epic so I could take Physical Perfection
/Shield can actually get up to 95% DDR (Defence Debuff Protection) so you don't really need to go over 45% by more than 1 or 2% imho.Quote:-I slotted to get his Melee, Ranged and AOE postional defenses over 50% to get some defuff protection.
As demonstrated above, Barrage is your worst attack, so it is as good a choice as any.Quote:-I chose to slot Absolute Amazement in Barrage for its Set Bonuses and forgo Barrage as a good attack power. Was this a good choice?
I did the same thing in my build, but it didn't seem to give the DDR in game as shown in mids. Hopefully someone else can confirm this?Quote:-In Battle Agility I 3 slotted LotG and added one HO for 3% more def debuff resistance. A slot better spent else where?
I definately think tanks should take a slot taunt. As long as you hit the defence caps then this should get lots of love.Quote:-Taunt, I fully slotted it for aggro management (think helping the team here) and the IO Set bonuses. Good idea?
If you have enough recharge and 3 HO's in AD you can perma-double stack it, which helps you reach the 95% DDR cap. Some people use 3, others don't even bother with any.Quote:-I slotted Active Defense with two slots of HOs, best practice? Over/under slotted?
As shown above I would put it into Energy Punch, the Hecatomb proc is amazing and it is always best to put procs into the attacks you are going to use more often. Unless you can 5 slot the rest of Hecatomb into Energy Transfer, and put just the proc into Energy Punch.Quote:-Energy Transfer or Total Focus, which gets the Hecatomb set once I save up enough for it?
OWtS is the most skipped power in the /Shield set. And more recharge = more Shield ChargeQuote:-SHOULD I take Hasten or One with the Shield? I am really torn on this one - which increases his and the team's survivability more? I lean towards Hasten as I also think it makes him more fun to play. Thoughts?
-
Quote:I would just like to point out that Total Focus, while being a 'big hitter' is actually a pretty poor attack these days, because it has a 3.3 second animation you are much better off using several of the smaller attacks instead and will cause more damage over those 3.3 seconds. The stun is nice, but far too slow.
-I was willing to sacrifice some damage output to achieve the above. (Skipped Energy Punch and Bone Smasher)
-I was not willing to sacrifice the four big hitters (Shield Charge, Energy Transfer or Total Focus, Whirling Hands)
Energy Transfer, while having a long animation is if I recall your best attack for the damage it causes per activation time (DPA), but I find the damage it causes you to be a very bad thing on a tank, particularly a /Shield tank where one big hit slipping through your defences can kill you if you are not at full hp (IE: If you don't have the benefit of the no-1-shot rule).
So I would only ever take one of Energy Transfer/Total Focus because having that big hit is nice, but to take both means passing up a better damage power. Your next best attack is actually Energy Punch. Having Energy Punch also means you will probably get a much smoother attack chain, because it is on a very short recharge. As such this is the power I would put the Hecatomb set in, to take full advantage of the proc.
Edit:
For reference the DPA's of each single target attack (unslotted) are:
Barrage - 58.7/1.33 = 44.1
Energy Punch - 44.5/0.83 = 53.6
Bone Smasher - 73/1.5 = 48.6
Energy Transfer - 202.9/2.67 = 76.0
Total Focus - 158.4/3.3 = 48
So your best single target attacks are (In order): Energy Transfer > Energy Punch > Bone Smasher > Total Focus > Barrage. -
Aren't most of the truly dangerous Psi powers also non-positional? Malaise springs to mind.
I would think resistance would be the best bet if you want to be as strong against Psi as you can be in all situations.
Positional defence would still be best though, because that has the added bonus of protecting you against almost everything else at the same time. -
Quote:Just thought I should post to say that it can be done with energy melee. I have just planned a build that caps at 45.2% to all (But psi) with 1 in range, and has perma-dull pain.Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
For ease of doing that, avoid Energy. The rest of the sets should work just fine, as they all have at least 2 PBAoE powers.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Insuperable: Level 50 Natural Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A)
Level 1: Barrage -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(3), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(5), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(7), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(7)
Level 2: Temp Invulnerability -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(3), RctvArm-ResDam:40(5)
Level 4: Dull Pain -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:50(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg:50(9), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:50(11), Dct'dW-Heal:50(11), Dct'dW-Rchg:50(13)
Level 6: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 8: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam:40(9), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(13)
Level 10: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt:50(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg:50(29), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(29), Mocking-Acc/Rchg:50(31), Mocking-Taunt/Rng:50(31), Mocking-Rchg:50(31)
Level 12: Resist Energies -- Aegis-ResDam:40(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:40(15), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg:50(15)
Level 14: Health -- Heal-I:50(A), RgnTis-Regen+:30(37), Heal-I:50(48)
Level 16: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(17), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(17), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(21), Zephyr-ResKB:50(25), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(36)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(19)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(21), P'Shift-End%:50(23)
Level 22: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(23), Zephyr-ResKB:50(25)
Level 24: Whirling Hands -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(33), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(33), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg:50(34), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg:50(34), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(34)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(27), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(27), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(50)
Level 28: Energy Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(37), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(40), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(40), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(43)
Level 30: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Stun -- Mocking-Taunt:50(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg:50(33), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(37), Mocking-Rchg:50(39), Mocking-Taunt/Rng:50(40), Mocking-Acc/Rchg:50(42)
Level 35: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(36), RctvArm-ResDam:40(36)
Level 38: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(39), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(39)
Level 41: Total Focus -- P'ngFist-Acc/Dmg:25(A), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg:30(42), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx:30(42), P'ngFist-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:25(43), P'ngFist-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:25(43), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg:30(46)
Level 44: Focused Accuracy -- GSFC-ToHit:50(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg:50(45), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx:50(45), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx:50(45), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:50(46), GSFC-Build%:50(46)
Level 47: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(48), RechRdx-I:50(48)
Level 49: Physical Perfection -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(50), EndMod-I:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Note: I think Bone Smasher is a better attack than Total Focus, but I like the animation
The only annoying thing is that I can't fit in Resist Elements. -
My elec/shield ran the warrior clan map today (Not farming) and was way faster and safer than my fire/kin, so yes it is great for farming. The problem is that it is only great for farming when you have made a fair investment in it, where as a fire/kin is almost free.
I doubt however it is much cop in PvP since defence is worthless and you will be a very lucky person to hit someone with shield charge in a PvP zone. -
Quote:With most builds I find that one goal (Maybe in this case capped defences) can be reached cheap enough, but when you add in a second goal, or a third the budget (And difficulty) increases massively.Originally Posted by plainguy
Ahh I see what you did watchfire, now I get it..
Looking back at those 2 builds I notice that princessdarkstar has a 1 second delay compared to Judge Mental 40 second delay on Hasten.
With my build it wasn't just about softcap, it was as you noticed about getting as much recharge as possible, while having to take certain powers in order to reach 95% DDR (Defence debuff resistance).
If I wasn't bothered about the DDR I would have taken Tough/Weave like Judge Mental and probably increased the survivability against all but defence debuffing mobs at the same time. -
Quote:Yeah the resistances I was slightly bothered about, but without going the Tough/Weave route (And having to drop either attacks or DDR as far as I can see) I couldn't see any way to improve them.Originally Posted by Santorican
I'm not sure about your accuracy but I know that your regeneration and resistances aren't very high so you're going to have fun lol
Is there something you can see that I can do to get them up a bit without compromising my goals?
Same for regen really, except I am not sure how much benefit it actually is. I always read people going for regen with /shield builds but going from 20 hp/s to 30 hp/s doesn't sound much to me. Am I underestimating the usefulness of it? And once again can you see a way to squeeze any in without compromising my goals?
Basically I think this is going to be my main toon for a very long time to come, and I would like to get the build to be the best I can possibly make it. -
Quote:Is that because of accuracy or because I have nothing to heal the hits that do get through?Originally Posted by Santorican
This build should do fine for +2 x8 but it might run into trouble with +4s, you'd definitely need to rely on inspirations once you're soloing +4x8. Other then that it looks good
-
I have hit level 50 now and started to work towards this build, the only things I am missing now are purple sets (Which may take a while) and 3 LoTG's (Which won't take long), so I thought I would post my reworked build up and see if anyone has any improvements they can suggest.
My aim is still defence cap to all, 95% DDR, and as much recharge as possible. I am not really sure how much regeneration will do me good, because on teams or solo insps drop fast enough to keep me alive when it gets rough. The same goes for endurance, I have to keep making blues, but they drop fast enough not to matter, but improvements are still welcome in those areas.
I think those are pretty much none negotiable (The defence definately is), but if people can come up with reasons why I should sacrifice some of that for other things I will happily look into it.
Inf isn't really an object (Especially considering the earning power of the toon), but I don't plan on any of the expensive PvP IO's.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Lightning Rose: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Electrical Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Blaze Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Charged Brawl -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg:40(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:40(3), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:40(3), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(5), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:40(15), T'Death-Dam%:40(25)
Level 1: Deflection -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(13)
Level 2: Havoc Punch -- Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(5), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg:50(7), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx:50(7), Hectmb-Dam%:50(13)
Level 4: Battle Agility -- LkGmblr-Def:50(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(21), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:50(21), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(23)
Level 6: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 8: Thunder Strike -- Oblit-%Dam:50(A), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(9), Oblit-Dmg:50(9), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(11), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(11), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(15)
Level 10: Active Defense -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(17), HO:Membr(27)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-ResKB:50(17), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(19), LkGmblr-Def:50(19), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(37)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-ResKB:50(31), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(39)
Level 16: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(23), RechRdx-I:50(25)
Level 18: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%:50(A), P'Shift-EndMod:50(27), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg:50(29), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc:50(39)
Level 22: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I:50(A)
Level 24: Build Up -- GSFC-Build%:50(A), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx:50(29), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx:50(34), GSFC-ToHit:50(40), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg:50(40), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx:50(40)
Level 26: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:30(A)
Level 28: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Def:50(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(31), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(31)
Level 30: True Grit -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A), Heal-I:50(39), Numna-Heal:50(46), Numna-Heal/EndRdx:50(50), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(50)
Level 32: Lightning Rod -- Oblit-%Dam:50(A), Oblit-Dmg:50(33), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(33), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(34), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(34)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Oblit-%Dam:50(A), Oblit-Dmg:50(36), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(37), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(37)
Level 38: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(43), Zephyr-ResKB:50(43)
Level 41: Char -- Lock-Acc/Hold:30(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg:50(42), Lock-Rchg/Hold:50(42), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(42), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(43), Lock-%Hold:50(46)
Level 44: Fire Blast -- Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(A), Apoc-Dam%:50(45), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(45), Apoc-Acc/Rchg:50(46)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg:50(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Ragnrk-Dmg:50(48), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(50)
Level 49: Grant Cover -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx:50(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Code:If it matters I solo (A lot) on +2/x8 and also run a lot of TF's, which will probably be mostly ran at +2 when the difficulty gets fixed, but will also get ran at +4 a lot too. Hopefully I will have enough accuracy for that?| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1423;717;1434;HEX;| |78DAA5934B4F135114C7EFB4530AEDF445A185F2684B0BB4D40ED4571417262A261| |A9A20280B059AB15CE92493D274BA50577E00579AE8CA8D8A8F8F60FC26EAD70041| |C57A1EB7E8DE26FDFFEE9CF99F3367EEB9537D78CD10E2C965A185AF3A96EBD6D6E| |A6DABD5926D5FD5DAB1EBE1657BA7D169DACD9DCCEAAE2BFD428874CF51AB4A474A| |73C991F54EDBAE5B0E07FEDEBF261FC8A62BCDB5862D9DEDDE65EC46B321DBB2D93| |17B0B636577D731AFDB9DA6745DBE5896560B1E1AA08BB59694DB915E7C5BB6DD86| |DD1A5C6AD975F38A633D96B5AAE57664FBD108745784FF7E48A85FD727EE026685E| |71E6383A06F12C25B84911A2180591A656962181615610C110E42EA86E8EADAAC07| |437A81D05764CC118C122108762F17F27AB9C25094112724B87A1FECA68F7DC2571| |0183A8254BFEADC2FBC18EAEF52D1FE9F84C02FC63121FC9B1082AC012EE4195804| |E84244895E91524C40D9207BF4E0174A8B7E230C723783DC69FE2B059360E75DEC7| |A426C9F64FB0C1BA6C01051CF8C94A8F9046384E107434CBD5DECA6863BDC0FA1B8| |DA98F84B2A937A46187FCEB55FF06BC19387B500A50E67A9DA2184926A63921F39E| |70321FB9E30FB96B1C778478840D6A8EA61145F7342C4A08731D5F718BFF2240F67| |52CD1C7226D4464D242967264F3D94EF90A1728BB14E38067B5A3596E6896578541| |91E5586E797E58965796231C89A5259539C95E3AC1C67E5382BCFF63C27E7A0F769| |3594691ECA1C4F638E67F31ACA1654D9C2BE077B2F1ED09DE277C621DB8F08E51F8| |437905552C7BBB440A15315469961B27D9EB0077653D9CD73149A3FCB38C3384DA8| |9CE75306F60535838500EDD9B87EF27D0A91A2BD5DFE3754A6D08A7EF2D5098DCF5| |45A3FF944FFEBF7C9E8D51958C563761B6505445BC7D506CA265E6EE1CAC2D57D94| |3A9DC9CF46AFD7C8056CE822CA22CA2594A768F207418228064A08258C124189A2C| |451122829945728DD3FDD85FE3C| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Also I have a question about attack chains. I know Electric Melee is poor (Awful) in single target damage, but is Fire Blast > Charged Brawl > Havok Punch about the best chain it can manage?
Thank you all in advance