PrincessDarkstar
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Posts
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Joined
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Coming very late to this thread so haven't read all of it yet, but it is no co-incidence that I actually left CoX when I-content started to force teaming, and have only come back when there is an alternative.
So even the CoX devs seem to have caught the enforced teaming bug, but in a worse way than the glowy stick game because at least there you only have to find 8 people (And I have no clue why CoX ever moved away from that
).
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Quote:I haven't looked at the builds but thinking about it they are probably from before inherant stamina, so those endmods probably had a lot of use back then when endurance was hard to come by. And I think they are almost certainly before the Light Form changes.Originally Posted by New Dawn
It just came to me that perhaps its best to assume that both types can take all powers. No enhancing.
The builds are junk Princess especially for the process of comparison. For the sake of 2 end mods in LF the PBs Dawn Strike has its rechg less than what it could be. I am not hoping for anything, I already have done much that I am happy with. Doing the practical for realistic results right now.
You are right about assuming all powers can be taken, but I would definitely enhance them, because it allows the builds to get enough recharge to not have to use the really awful powers (T1 blasts). I wouldn't go past SO's though, because that is the stated balance point for AT's.
Thankfully it looks easy enough to save Joe's spreadsheets to Excel and swap the powers and number around if you are so inclined (I personally think Joes numbers are close enough, or at least I don't think there will be any sufficiently different discrepancies if we change the builds). -
Got a spot saved for a Stone/Dark scrapper, and several spots saved for blasters if they ever get the damage buff they deserve.
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Quote:I am pretty sure Joe is using the 'gold standard' builds which all the guides are based on so they can't be 'junk'.Originally Posted by New Dawn
The comparison is biased because the builds are junk really.
But either way basing this kind of math on a particular build does give bias.
I would have used each power optimally SO individually slotted rather than how it would look in a particular build (I would also ignore accuracy so slot attacks 3dam 3 rech for example and use those numbers).
You get a better representation of what each power can do, because there is enough fleibility to build and slot so many different ways.
Still I don't think any build changes are going to have the drastic effect on the numbers that you are hoping for New Dawn. -
Quote:Sorry yeah I meant to say "a solo bots player"Originally Posted by Jibikao
Well, I mostly only play Ninja and /trap doesn't work that well because Ninjas run extremely fast and with them "fear" mobs away with their Rain of Fire and Caltrops, it is such a hassle to keep the ninjas within FFG. And FFG is always behind you. The best defense for Ninja is /FF because the shields stay on them and I can follow them with Dispersion.
However, Robot is different. Robots themselves already have good defense and resistance and all range. You probably get a better mix of offense with /Trap than with one-dimensional set like Force Field.
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I thought you said DM/Nrg at first and was going to say something like 'yes that does sound like a great combo' but /elec made me stop and think.
I am making an /elec scrapper at the moment and it seems like it can get some decent survivability so should go quite nice with DM.
I think resist sets are just underplayed compared to defence sets. -
I have only played bots and zombies, but I can't give bots enough praise.
My first was bots/ff and I could put provoke on auto, however into the air and tank pretty much any AV thanks to the awesomeness that is the upgraded Assault Bot (I want a powerset where I can be him!).
My second was bots/traps, which is just as awesome as bots/ff - but with added debuff and extra defence for yourself (Honestly after palying /traps I can't see why a solo player would ever pick FF).
My last was zombies/dark, the zombies drove me nuts dying all the time but I stuck it out until 38 thinking all the -tohit would help, but it just didn't, so he got deleted before hitting 50
I still think zombies/dark can be a good combo, but it just didn't work out for me, especially after seeing how bots can melt entire spawns in seconds.
I assume bots/time will be roughly the same as bots/traps, but possibly missing the debuffs for av's and the like (I don't know much about /time other than it gives nice defence and I love having them in my team). -
Sussed it now lol
Thank you ever so much Hopeling
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Quote:Much appreciated! I heard rumors of this but never know how to do it!Originally Posted by Hopeling
The good news is, you can easily make Mids do this for you without a spreadsheet at all. In the example you gave, you've got a final hit chance of 179.2%. Of course, that's capped in-game at 95%. But if you're using the default settings, it's telling you your chance to hit a +0 enemy, which is usually trivial. You're probably interested in hit chance against high-level enemies; I usually try to build for capped accuracy against +3s, since you basically never face worse than that once you have an alpha shift. According to paragonwiki, the base hit chance against a +3 is 48% instead of 75%, so you can go to Options - Configuration - Exemping and Base Values and change the 75 to a 48. That will make Mids display your actual final hit chance against a +3 enemy as the "Accuracy:" number. You can plug in any other number you like for base tohit, to account for enemies of different levels, or for defense buffs/tohit debuffs.
This makes sense, but is confusing me because using 75 actually resulted in the right numberQuote:Originally Posted by Hopeling
The power's inherent accuracy here is not 75 (at least, not for any attack that I can think of). That's your own base tohit stat. The power's inherent accuracy is 1.00 for most powers, but some have higher or lower. I'm also a little puzzled how you obtained 66.25% accuracy from set bonuses, since AFAIK they only come in whole numbers... Double Super Edit: Unless those numbers switched order and the 55% is your set bonuses.
Also you are right, I swapped the numbers round to make it easier to add up in my head! 66.25% was the set bonus, and 55% the global.
In summary as long as mids is right then I have 95% chance to hit +3's so I am leaving happy lol. Sod the spreadsheet (I will come back to it another day I think and start from scratch with what I now know)
And thank you for this reply! -
Actually Paragon Wiki has come the the rescue!
AccMods = the power's inherent Accuracy × (1.0 + the power's Accuracy Enhancements + all global Set Accuracy bonuses)
So 75 x (1 + 0.55 + 0.6625) = 165.9.
I am still confused what the realnumbers bit means though, but at least I think I can safely ignore it.
Edit: It still leaves purple sets woefully lacking in accuracy imho Something they seem to have noticed if the numbers on Superior Scrappers Strike are anything to go by.
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Quote:I just realised that number is taking ToHit buffs into account so I am even more confused.Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
is that including global acc bonuses you have from set bonuses? theres a good bit of sets out there which include +acc to all powers (for purples its like +9% acc to all powers, some other sets are like 6-7% acc to all powers)
maybe thats where your missing amount is
To help I have removed my Kismet from the build, so there are no ToHit buffs that can get in the way.
The power I am looking at for this example is Titan Sweep, is has 75% base chance, 55% global accuracy, and 66.25% from slotting.
Which I think should be 75+55+66.25 = 196.25 (Or even 75 x 1.55 x 1.6625 = 193.27)
Now however the power shows 165.9% accuracy, or 1.909 realnumbers, neither is what I am expecting to see
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Hi All,
I am just making a spreadsheet for chance to hit and am not 100% sure which number I should be taking from Mids.
For those who don't know, the formula is:
HitChance = Clamp( AccMods × Clamp( BaseHitChance + ToHitMods DefMods ) )
The number I am querying is the AccMods number, in Mids I can look at a power and see it say Accuracy = 179.2% (Which would be 1.792 in the equation) but when I hover the mouse over it says Realnumber = 2.04 and I am not sure which I should be using - can anyone help?
Note: If it is the first number then purple sets don't give enough accuracy to help hit +3's 95% of the time, which i find surprising. -
Grr just realised that I have worked the 3% resistance IO out of my build, so now I need to free up another slot or move more stuff around
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Quote:Don't worry I didn't take anything badly.Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
I thought that was what I did to sum things up. I mean you guys have got to know it is not personal but it was clear she was making some seriously incorrect statements/false assumptions and basing changes on those incorrect statements/false assumptions.
If I make a mistake or am just plain wrong I like to know
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Quote:When you talk about this what did you actually do that was 'defendery' aside from heal him though? (Not saying you were useless and the scrapper didn't need your help though - actually curious what people consider 'defendery')Originally Posted by New Dawn
There is more to them than that, I impressed people when I used a PB for a defender whilst using a Scrapper for a Tank, doing Scirocco. Yeah that's all we need, not even more than a SO build.
It seems there is a leaning towards defendery powers, but they all need massive improvement to compare with how well a Warshade can control a mob. -
Just wanted to say a massive thank you for the updates and ongoing work
Mids kept me in this game for ages, then after a few months break I came back partly because I missed making builds! -
Quote:I am not sure it will be the same at high levels but I don't think Elec fits with fury all that well. Fury benefits from lots of attacks to build it up, but Elec likes to frontload its damage which doesn't give enough time to build up good fury.Originally Posted by Riius Indigo
Plys, I could never get the fury going (Brutes befuddle me a bit).
Once you get going it will be less noticable because the fury will carry from mob to mob, but I think building fury is harder on Elec than most other sets. Also with the KD from LR and TS you won't be getting attacked as much as other brutes initially, so no building fury that way.
Another thing in the scrappers favor. -
Quote:This is what I am trying to achieve, but I am basing any PB changes I think of on the Warshade because I think the Warshade pulls of versatility in an awesome way, but the PB doesn't.Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
I thought my sig explained that to some degree. It is what each person makes of it depending on build and playstyle, which means it's versatile.
I also want it to have different options to the Warshade.
At the moment Warshade has:
Human - Damage and control
Nova - AoE damage
Dwarf - Tanking and decent damage
But PB has:
Human - Damage
Nova - AoE damage
Dwarf - Tanking
The differences are fairly stark in my eyes because the powers given to PB's to allow their versatility are pretty awful and don't stack together well enough. I am not trying to change what a PB does, just suggest how to make it do what it does better.
At least that is the intention, and the reason I am adding not removing, while also obeying the cottage rule. -
Quote:My new scrapper hit 47 yesterday and I realised my build needed changing so I am having to concentrate my free time on that for now.Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
Assuming Monday is fairly quiet at work I will run the maths for you for a 1 minute fight with unlimited mobs, and a 1 minute fight with 1 mob for both classes using each form.
I won't take into account any SO's or IO's and I am fairly sure the WS will win. I am also fairly sure SO's and IO's would just widen the gap.
If nobody beats me to it though I will do this when I get the chance. -
Quote:Hmm thats good to know. I will have to rework my DPS charts.Originally Posted by Hopeling
Mids does account for criticals. You can see this by mousing over an attack's damage; it breaks the damage into its component hits and their chances. You're right that the toggle doesn't do anything, though.
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Quote:I didn't think Mids took crit chance into account at all, even the Critical toggle doesn't seem to change anything.Originally Posted by Hopeling
There WAS an error in Mids that made it count all the crit chances together on epic attacks, including the guaranteed crit from Hide that Stalkers get (yes, even though you were looking at it on a scrapper). This made its displayed average damage much too high, and appears to now be corrected. Now it's not showing the crit chance at all, so the average damage is 10% lower than it should be, but the power never did the extremely high damage that the previous version of Mids said it did.
Still that is a little annoying to know but my alternate plan is good enough. -
Having downloaded the new mids Dark Blast is showing about half the damage it used to, so I need to test that in game, but I am assuming (Hoping) there is an error in mids using the ranged modifier instead of the melee one.
If Dark Blast is indeed awful then I will move the slots from there into Defensive Sweep (Which I will change to Crushing Blow) and make do with 7.5% less global recharge from losing the LoTG (And of course the DPS hit). I will also swap Dark Blast for Moonbeam, to give me the option of pulling.
However that aside I have become probably the only IO'd out scrapper to 6 slot Power Surge, but I have met all my goals without having to +5 anything (Which is good because previously I was +5ing for added defence, but since that almost entirely comes from set bonus' it was adding very little [~0.3 to all if every defence IO was at +5], now I can use my +5's on my AoE powers for extra damage! - Or maybe for extra EndRdx if I need it).
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.954
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Yvi: Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Titan Weapons
Secondary Power Set: Electric Armor
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Defensive Sweep -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Charged Armor -- Aegis-ResDam(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(13), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(15), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(17)
Level 2: Titan Sweep -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(3), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(3), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Oblit-%Dam(25)
Level 4: Lightning Field -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(5), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(5), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(7), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 6: Conductive Shield -- GA-ResDam(A), GA-End/Res(50)
Level 8: Follow Through -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(9), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Hectmb-Dam%(21), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(40), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(40)
Level 10: Build Momentum -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(11), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(31), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(36), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(37), GSFC-Build%(42)
Level 12: Static Shield -- GA-3defTpProc(A)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 16: Grounded -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 18: Rend Armor -- SScrappersS-Acc/Dmg(A), SScrappersS-Rchg/+Crit(19), Achilles-ResDeb%(19), SScrappersS-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), SScrappersS-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SScrappersS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 20: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Energize -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(23), Numna-Heal/Rchg(23), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Numna-Heal(36), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(45)
Level 24: Tough -- GA-ResDam(A), GA-End/Res(40)
Level 26: Whirling Smash -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Oblit-%Dam(45)
Level 28: Weave -- HO:Cyto(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(29), LkGmblr-Def(29)
Level 30: Lightning Reflexes -- Run-I(A)
Level 32: Arc of Destruction -- Armgdn-Dmg(A), FotG-ResDeb%(33), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(33), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Armgdn-Dam%(34)
Level 35: Power Sink -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 38: Maneuvers -- HO:Cyto(A), LkGmblr-Def(39), LkGmblr-Rchg+(39)
Level 41: Dark Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(42), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 44: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Ksmt-ToHit+(46)
Level 47: Power Surge -- Lock-Acc/Hold(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg(48), Lock-Rchg/Hold(48), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(48), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(50), Lock-%Hold(50)
Level 49: Shadow Meld -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
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Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(7), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(25), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(43), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(45), P'Shift-End%(46)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 1: Momentum
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Quote:Lol the SuperScience pack and creative macroing even covers that! Kinda.Originally Posted by Diggaroo
I agree with nearly EVERYTHING in your entire post besides this, THB. If you take Warshades out of the picture, Peacebringers are the only other shapeshifting AT in the entire game... That must count for something, right?
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Quote:What 'is' it though? It doesn't seem to be anything in particular at the moment.Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
I am against changing the PB from what it is into something else individually preferred by this or that Kheldian driver.
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I remember back in the day with 3 fluffies out my alpha strike could 1 shot a row of romans on the Cimerora wall (If they all did their AoE at once, which wasn't often), not much else can do that even under optimised conditions.
Edit: When I do my maths on Monday I will exclude the fluffies, and I bet Warshades still win overall.