Shame on Forum For Keeping DM/ElA Secret


Beauregard

 

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For various reasons I didn't feel like working on any of my existing characters. The need to make a Staff Fighting character not being fulfilled because the powerset has not been released, I decided to try out a build which on paper seemed to address the two headaches I have when making and playing a melee character--endurance and healing. So I started a Dark Melee/Electrical Armor brute with no great hope for it to have anything else going for it above my other melee characters.

32 levels later, I have to say I think I was woefully underestimating the potential of the build. Heck, I'm in love. I can't wait to get back home and play the character. He may not be silly unstoppable, but darn if he doesn't stand up to a heck of a beating while dishing it right back.

Why when I search do I find virtually no conversation on this particular combination of powersets?

Yeah, I know DM is definitely short on AE powers and there is much dislike of Shadow Maul. I have also seen some criticisms of Electrical Armor in terms of squishiness (though I certainly have not found that to be the case). Still, I learned to reliably put things in SM's cone (target center of group, take a step back, use SM) back on my Dark/Inv scrapper, DM doesn't do much in the way of AE but Soul Drain backing up Lightning Field does put out some nice damage, and if Electrical Armor is kinda squishy, every 3rd attack being Siphon Life keeps me from noticing. And being able to laugh at Super Stunners and Sapper. . .Priceless!

So what gives?


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Originally Posted by Erratic View Post
For various reasons I didn't feel like working on any of my existing characters. The need to make a Staff Fighting character not being fulfilled because the powerset has not been released, I decided to try out a build which on paper seemed to address the two headaches I have when making and playing a melee character--endurance and healing. So I started a Dark Melee/Electrical Armor brute with no great hope for it to have anything else going for it above my other melee characters.

32 levels later, I have to say I think I was woefully underestimating the potential of the build. Heck, I'm in love. I can't wait to get back home and play the character. He may not be silly unstoppable, but darn if he doesn't stand up to a heck of a beating while dishing it right back.

Why when I search do I find virtually no conversation on this particular combination of powersets?

Yeah, I know DM is definitely short on AE powers and there is much dislike of Shadow Maul. I have also seen some criticisms of Electrical Armor in terms of squishiness (though I certainly have not found that to be the case). Still, I learned to reliably put things in SM's cone (target center of group, take a step back, use SM) back on my Dark/Inv scrapper, DM doesn't do much in the way of AE but Soul Drain backing up Lightning Field does put out some nice damage, and if Electrical Armor is kinda squishy, every 3rd attack being Siphon Life keeps me from noticing. And being able to laugh at Super Stunners and Sapper. . .Priceless!

So what gives?
*/ELA gets less flack than DM. The primary reason that DM gets flack is that most people use their brutes to farm. A DM/ELA brute has no AOE attack chain to speak of. The very nature of brute fury is that you attract/attack large crowds. Having a primary set of nothing but ST damage slows you down alot.

I have been flirting with a DM/Fire build for a while, and have even rolled one several times. The highest I've gotten with a DM/Fire is level 24. DM simple takes too long to level, even though it is pretty darn effective against bosses in regular play.

Personally, I think that DM/ELA would be a fun build. But I would miss AOE too much. There's something about watching ten minions fall after your first attack, leaving just a boss left. With DM/ELA it just isn't possible. Same goes for DM/non-damage aura toons of all varieties.


 

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I thought you said DM/Nrg at first and was going to say something like 'yes that does sound like a great combo' but /elec made me stop and think.

I am making an /elec scrapper at the moment and it seems like it can get some decent survivability so should go quite nice with DM.

I think resist sets are just underplayed compared to defence sets.


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Originally Posted by Kathari View Post
*/ELA gets less flack than DM. The primary reason that DM gets flack is that most people use their brutes to farm. A DM/ELA brute has no AOE attack chain to speak of. The very nature of brute fury is that you attract/attack large crowds. Having a primary set of nothing but ST damage slows you down alot.
What I am about to say may not hold true at higher levels, but I find that Soul Drain plus Lightning Field does a decent amount of area damage for the duration of Soul Drain. True, it is limited to the recharge rate of Soul Drain. However if you can come close to perma-Hasten Soul Drain would be available basically every time its duration ended--so Lightning Field could be putting out enhanced damage. Add too the power of Epic sets under influence from Soul Drain. Hmmm. . .if I manage to take this build to 50 and if I am able to find the influence to kite it out properly I may have to see what sort of farmer it makes.

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I have been flirting with a DM/Fire build for a while, and have even rolled one several times. The highest I've gotten with a DM/Fire is level 24. DM simple takes too long to level, even though it is pretty darn effective against bosses in regular play.
Electrical Armor gives you Lightning Reflexes, which helps somewhat. I admit, having only 3 attacks (Smite, Shadow Maul, and Siphon Life) and having to wait for them to cycle is at odds with the notion of attacks flowing seemlessly from one to another without pause. Picking up Midnight Grasp (he's 33 but I haven't trained since level 29) should help as will eventually slotting to improve recharge times.

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Personally, I think that DM/ELA would be a fun build. But I would miss AOE too much. There's something about watching ten minions fall after your first attack, leaving just a boss left. With DM/ELA it just isn't possible. Same goes for DM/non-damage aura toons of all varieties.
I am pretty sure I did not beating down that crowd of 14 crey I leapt into yesterday (to discover to my surprise contained a +4 Boss) one at a time.

Edit: If you're interested in it, give it a spin one afternoon. With DFBs you can have it into its 20s and get a good feel for its actual play without investing too much time.


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On many issues, there's a "forum disconnect" where the conventional wisdom doesn't really match what happens in game - largely because that conventional wisdom was formed in a different era.

Resist-based sets are often viewed as 'squishy' because as you're leveling from 35-50, you're probably running 40% - 60% resists and facing enemies who tear through your defense. In contrast, the same toon as a defense-based armor set would have already capped his defenses and be highly resistant to those defense debuffs.

However, this is merely an issue of peaking later. The defense-based armor sets are as good as they're ever going to get during that period, while the resist-based armor sets just keep getting better as their resist climbs higher and higher. Ultimately, the resist-based armors sets are significantly more durable once you've piled on the IO sets and Incarnate abilities.

Dark Melee is another example. Yes, it has horrible AE. But that doesn't really matter because it also has Soul Drain - essentially a permanent Build Up without a crash. Coupled with AE-intensive epic pools like Mu Mastery and damage auras, this makes it one of the best choices for farming toons.


 

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i love dark melee on my stone armor brute, hes one of my farming toons cause hes so hard to kill lol


 

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Originally Posted by Erratic View Post
What I am about to say may not hold true at higher levels, but I find that Soul Drain plus Lightning Field does a decent amount of area damage for the duration of Soul Drain. True, it is limited to the recharge rate of Soul Drain. However if you can come close to perma-Hasten Soul Drain would be available basically every time its duration ended--so Lightning Field could be putting out enhanced damage. Add too the power of Epic sets under influence from Soul Drain. Hmmm. . .if I manage to take this build to 50 and if I am able to find the influence to kite it out properly I may have to see what sort of farmer it makes.
Very true. Of course, everything is awesome at Level 50, the right slotting and right incarnates. Energize + Siphon Life = Good Heals. Power Sift + Dark Consumption = Unlimited Stamina. DM/Fire is probably even more ridiculous in this area because its heals are both available before level 10.


 

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I made a DM/Fire scrapper. I know it isnt quite the same, but I can say the synergy of all the self heals to go with fire's not as durable numbers is nice. Two endo recovery powers is also very nice.

it isnt teh uberzt, but it is really tough and can lay a good paced smack down with no downtime. haveing the double recovery tools, and all that self heal allows for more unorthodox slotting. I actually slotted one of the recovery Aoe's up for dmg also, and with some average to high recharge bonuses it is up to use on every spawn, or close. I forget which, but one of the two is actually reasonably good for damage. PbAOE that also recovers half your endo bar? Awsome. It is a perk of the combo, there is no way I would slot it that way outside of this particular pairing.

Also, soul drain+fiery embrace.
Also, soul drain+blazing aura.

DM/elec sounds interesting also. Siphon life + resist sets is always a good fit. I think by the end game, it would be tougher and easier to IO to be tougher then a DM/fire. More traditional though, not that I would see that as a bad thing. I might try this. my only attempt at DM brute was a DM/WP and that got freeging boring by level 30. I think this would keep my attention more.


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Originally Posted by Eldagore View Post
DM/elec sounds interesting also. Siphon life + resist sets is always a good fit. I think by the end game, it would be tougher and easier to IO to be tougher then a DM/fire. More traditional though, not that I would see that as a bad thing. I might try this. my only attempt at DM brute was a DM/WP and that got freeging boring by level 30. I think this would keep my attention more.
It is kinda fun seeing what you can survive and trying to push the envelope. But when you push too far death can be awfully sudden. Basic routine is to run in, Soul Drain, and while going to single target town allow Lightning Field to be grinding away on everything around you. A lot of times I toss in Dark Consumption just for the damage because it will be back before I can run low on endurance. A quite often Power Sink is getting popped too, in part for surviving the alpha strike and in part for the cost reduction it provides.

The real work before me is to purchase IO sets and get my defenses up. I also need to finish my character's transition to villain to acquire the proper epic pool.


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Originally Posted by Erratic View Post
It is kinda fun seeing what you can survive and trying to push the envelope. But when you push too far death can be awfully sudden. Basic routine is to run in, Soul Drain, and while going to single target town allow Lightning Field to be grinding away on everything around you. A lot of times I toss in Dark Consumption just for the damage because it will be back before I can run low on endurance. A quite often Power Sink is getting popped too, in part for surviving the alpha strike and in part for the cost reduction it provides.

The real work before me is to purchase IO sets and get my defenses up. I also need to finish my character's transition to villain to acquire the proper epic pool.
The only time my Claws/Electric dies is when I: A) Get distracted and forget to hit Power Sift and run out of blue, or B) Somehow take the alpha strike of a mob just after the Overload crash.

DM/Electric is arguably more survivable and has ST control powers, but it is simple hard to beat Spin or Burn on Auto.


 

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I admit, I went down one time this past weekend because I was not paying any attention to my health.


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Originally Posted by Erratic View Post
I have also seen some criticisms of Electrical Armor in terms of squishiness
Uh... ElA is squishy? Compared to what? Stone? Inv maybe (against certain types of damage)? Or is it against lots of Toxic damage?

I was really surprised reading this because, for me, ElA was always one of the most survivable armors! Fine, it lacks a +max hp boost, but the quick-ish heal and the drain make a good job of covering for that. You can get mid-to-high resists to pretty much everything - including psi! - and even the Dark "hole" isn't that much of a hole.

Besides, if you take a more defense-based armor, you reach the softcaps and that's pretty much all you can do for your survivability (aside from going for +max hp and maybe adding Heal Self too, if you lack a better alternative), since adding res with IOs isn't really worth it and there's only tough to help in the pool powers...

With the resist-based armors you get those juicy resists PLUS it's not so hard with IOs and pool powers to get to the S/L softcap (or one purple short of it for M/R/A) or at least close to it. And if you must, eating purples is a lot more effective, usually, than eating orange insps...

This post did it: it went and made me agree with Beauregard! (No offense Beau, it just doesn't happen often.)

Anyway, back to the spirit of the OP: Congrats, you just found a good combo that you enjoy and that is not a FoTM!

I think that CoH is surprisingly well-balanced compared to other games (and not that tough to play anyway) in the sense that for most content it's actually kinda hard to find a really bad combo of powersets (and of team members too).

There are some outstanding powers that stick out among the crowd, like Rage or Drain Psyche but, even with that in mind, the difference between these optimum builds and the others isn't usually so dramatic (again, for most content and for most builds - some edge-cases do exist that make the difference more obvious). Comparing the supposedly worst melee powerset (Energy) with the best (SS), I doubt you'll ever see a team refusing the former, or demanding the later... It's one of the many things I love about this game, I can play what I want and I know I'll be pretty bad*ss with it as long as I have some idea of what I'm doing.


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Originally Posted by DrGamma View Post
Uh... ElA is squishy? Compared to what? Stone? Inv maybe (against certain types of damage)? Or is it against lots of Toxic damage?
Well I did continue the sentence, ". . .(though I certainly have not found that to be the case)."

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I was really surprised reading this because, for me, ElA was always one of the most survivable armors! Fine, it lacks a +max hp boost, but the quick-ish heal and the drain make a good job of covering for that. You can get mid-to-high resists to pretty much everything - including psi! - and even the Dark "hole" isn't that much of a hole.
Just telling you what I found when I did a search on the topic of ElA, and by no means was it uniform (hence the "some"). Keep in mind the title of the thread. . .doesn't sound like the author (me) has found ElA to be weak.

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Anyway, back to the spirit of the OP: Congrats, you just found a good combo that you enjoy and that is not a FoTM!
I really do wonder why given how incredible it has been so far. It is enough to cause me to have a half-formed worry that it all falls apart at some point.


Edit: Was invited to someone else's train mission where the map is full of clockworks. When I get that mission it is going on permanent farm because I'm basically immune to them.


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Originally Posted by Erratic View Post
Edit: Was invited to someone else's train mission where the map is full of clockworks. When I get that mission it is going on permanent farm because I'm basically immune to them.
I don't want to hijack the thread, but what's a train mission?


 

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Originally Posted by RogerWilco View Post
I don't want to hijack the thread, but what's a train mission?
A mission you get to by boarding a train as opposed to entering a door.


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