PHlRE
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Posts
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eh, who needs a window of break-free time? Sorry, but my toonz arent mezzed all day long.... and the time i actually need or want to nuke, maybe 1% of the time if that, would i be mezzed..... thats more useless than Vigilance. Those who have pbaoe mez resist/pro like Forcefield, Sonic, and Rad's AM? Exactly how they gain from this?
Give me a "nuke crash"-free nuke when your vigilance bar gets up to a certain point. That affects ALL defender powersets, irregardless of their inherent powers.... the nuke will help w/ team damage and mostly likely have an awsome secondary effect for damage mitigation - this is the principle that Defender's inherent should have.... -
Quote:yes, there are two angles with the nuke. To back up Garent, about 1/2 the nukes have some sort of secondary/mez/damage mitigation effect....Originally Posted by Garent
The dark blast nuke (at least on paper) looks like its debuff is so powerful that you could use it as an opener and your team would be perfectly safe.
Going back to the Topic....
my opinion is to put Vigilance on a visible bar, like fury. When it gets maxed or something close (preferably 80%), you ARE safe to nuke and will not experience "Nuke Crash" whatsoever.......
Wow, Defenders may bother to take up their nukes again! And Vigilance is actually made tangible and useful..... This element promotes a Defender using their nuke for support through "mez/secondary effect" damage mitigation, and also Damage for more damage mitigation..... -
Quote:hehOriginally Posted by Starsnostars
I love my Sonic/Dark. With the combined Sonic buffs and Dark Debuffs, it's like I'm buffing my teammates in both DamRes and Defense. Even half slotted like he is now (debuffs more than my shields, fyi) my team's health rarely drops below 90% unless we're doing something large and chaotic like Rikti ship raids.
P_Nut (Not that I'm some guru
) :
Main worry I have is in taking Blackstar with the Leadership pool. Popping the nuke will drop Disruption, Dispersion, Tactics, Maneuvers, and Assault. That's a lot of Support lost just for one power. When it comes to the Defender nuke, I'm a big believer in "to each his own", but I was greatly underwhelmed when I took it at first, since it shuts down so much.
Also, I can't recommend the Epic Armor enough. Sonic/Dark is SQUISHIE without some extra defense from set bonuses or the resistances from armors, since your only out-of-the-box mitigation is from your bubble. Since getting my armor, I've (narrowly) avoided a number of faceplants. I also use mine as a mule for the special Resistance set globals, so I could max the resistance on my buffs and bubble.
How is Oppressive Gloom? Wondered when I saw it, but haven't toyed with it yet.
Generally, under normal conditions/circumstances, a Defender's nuke isnt really warranted for damage. Its kind of a wimpy blaster nuke, drops all your toggles (which directly affects your team as you know). There are 3 saving graces for Defender nukes though.
1) Usually the Defender will have some sort of -resist aoe/loc debuff to multiply that damage
2) Nuke power has some sort of aoe/location, mez/damage mitigation effect
3) Primary's last tier power has some sort of aoe/location, mez/damage mitigation effect
In your case, you actually have 2 out of the 3..... but just to be on the SAFE side you wanna do this....
1) Cover the targeted mob groups w/ your cone -To Hit debuffs first
2) Liquefy the targeted mob groups (location -35% Def / -35% To Hit, small hold/KD)
3) Detonate BlackStar (-62.5% To Hit)
Basically, by the end, you've capped out all the mobs -To Hit factor and everyone should have your resist buffs..... so you're REALLY covered when you experience toggle droppage.
As for Epics, i primarily prefer Dark Mastery, and secondarily prefer Power Mastery. Dark Mastery just has TOO many "impact" powers, in fact all of them. If you are experiencing chronic end problems w/ your setup, keep Dark Consumption. If not, skip it and take Oppressive Gloom. Its a pbaoe mag2 stun which keeps itself layered on a target within its zone. You dont need to slot stun in to keep something perma-stunned, as long as it hits successfully on every chance. The end usage is phenomenally low(0.1/sec, compare to your 1.04/sec Disruption Field or 0.52/sec Sonic Dispersion). Just keep it 1slotted ACC w/ a basic IO and its a serious Impact power just like that. You can keep almost any minion or LT at bay when they melee you. Or go deep, thick in a mob group and do a small amount of control/damage mitigation by your pbaoe stun.... this 1slotted power goes a LONG way....
Dark Embrace - well, you've got it so you know how useful it is. The only Epic Resist toggle that covers 4 damage types - Smash, Lethal, Dark NRG, Toxic. The last two are usually weak points on alot of heroes.
Soul Transfer - the only self-rez a defender can get? Well, its useful in that very aspect, but maybe not so if you're not interested in having to die in the first place....
Soul Drain - this power gives those D3's the damage that makes them effective solo artists. They still havent fixed this from the Scrapper's - you will pull "crit" damage when activated lol, though not a big damage dealer. I think you can strike 16 targets?, but only up to 6 will buff you to a total of a bit over 100% damage over 30 seconds. You wanna crank up your Blackstar? Here ya go!
Power Mastery:
some peeps go this way to get more of a "controller" mag out of their powers and good resist options....
Conserve Power - speaks for itself.... will be obviously useful for end issues
Power Build Up(PBU) - well, this is why peeps take this Epic mostly. 10% To Hit, 80% Damage, almost 100% buff to secondary/mez effects. You stack this w/ Aim before hitting Liquefy and Blackstar, and you're gonna be the MASTER for a bit of time!
Force of Nature - well, basically a Defender's "Oh *HIT" button that kicks off enough resist to cap you out when slotted. This power should be seriously considered....
Temp Invuln - 30% to Smash/Lethal as a base is an awful lot of resist. Considering thats whats going to be whacking you in melee, most of the times. -
Quote:awsome info - this needs to be not buried in this thread, but forwarded up somehow, maybe by the OP into the first post.... this could help anyone and everyoneOriginally Posted by Rush_Bolt
Assuming 3 SOs of EndMod in HL (94.5% is my rule of thumb for that), you'd need to hit ~8 targets to get over 1000% +Recovery, not including the automatic caster buff. This also assumes no other +Recovery (Set Bonuses, Stamina, etc).
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Quote:hahaha, actually yes.....Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Has anyone else noted the extreme irony of the title of this thread?
"The Unrealized Power of the Defender"
....and the OP was talking about Defenders ignoring their secondary being a good thing.
Hilarious.
in fact, there are alot of recent thread posters posting Titles that arent entirely related or misleading to what is really a petty complaint about the AT..... but those Titles DO draw attention, and i think if the OP had nothing to contribute to the Defender community, they're just looking to be attention *horz.....
Rigel Kent is right about Diversification. EXACTLY the reason why i specifically run Twin Defenders, and not any other AT's, cuz ive tried it all already. Controllers DO come close but i find the mag of Defender's primary more important than a Controller's. But thats just me. Anyhow, i feel Defender's are the most diversified out of all the AT's. Really, they can do it ALL, and ive proven that w/ 2 defenders over and over, in different powersets. From tanking and leading in on AV's & GM's, to keeping a team alive for multiple Masters (and yes, ive got all 3 Masters on my current set as the main defs), and everything else under the sun. Ive got 2 defender twin sets that can take down GM's around 10-12min by themselves(Rad/Sonics & Cold/Sonics). With my Cold/Sonic twins, i took a frikkin tentacle off of Lusca w/o assistance. Lemme see see two other AT's try that one. Ive re-worked the Cold/Ice's builds to be more single target so they can tackle big game by themselves too....
IMO, the big difference maker is the mag of the Debuffs in their primaries. You'll see a big difference when big game hunting or general team survival w/ your buffs. Defenders ARE NOT underpowered, nor are they pidgeon-holed for one thing only.... -
Quote:Big mistake to take things personal from strangers, big mistake. The less you're emotionally involved the better..... Sometimes you do get slamdunked here, just gotta roll with it.Originally Posted by Firewasp
I have learned my lesson. I have been flamed by almost everyone and now this serious post has become a farm (lets see if we can bump it to 100 replies, 200? 300?)
In the future you will never hear about my ideas and thoughts again. But when you hear a rumor of a player that did something that was supposed to be impossible, just remember that I would have shared it with others. In the future it will just be collected like my long list of patents.
You ever played Eve Online? I figured out a way to operate the largest epic mining barge with full T3 gear and getting full mining yields without having most of the skills necessary (saving 8 months of skill training). It this find was given to one corp, the game would be so lopsided no one would ever play Eve Online again. When I reported to the developers of my findings, their reply was that if they fixed it, it would create too many other bugs. So this will never be nerfed.
I will change my handle so you will never know who I was. You all own this forum and I overstepped my bounds. My apologies.
~unknown
My two cents about this topic - Remember, ALL characters have a "Primary" and "Secondary" powerset, or you could say "role". The Primary powers of a Defender are.... Support! The Secondary powers of a defender are..... Offense. This offense isnt spectacular mind you, but it does offer supplemental damage, and most of the times, some effect that assists the team's offense or defense. There ya go.... -
Beeg CG!!!
think that MoSTF can be possible - make sure that every scrapper is full-up w/ Def/Resist/Heal inspires on every mish....
if the best Resist or Def scrapper can tank LR, using Def/Resist inspire stacks, keep aggro by using a ranged attack and stay out of melee..... -
holy crapulence - any way i can get the ONE minute i could stand to watch that video, back? I would love a refund, thats for sure.
Somehow, feel like getting an ingame blind invite from B when i clicked on that link.....
Ya know, its cool to make an SG promo vid, its not real cool or respectable to play off passive-aggressive in that video w/ those lousy text lol. And exactly why do you need to feel to "defend" yourself? Feeling that way and having to defend one's self speaks plenty clear about the person themselves and the SG they run lol....... WHO "HAS" TO DEFEND THEIR SG? Not anyone i know of, except maybe SF which dont exist, and PoN. Which may lead to another thing... If you're always getting "attacked" by the community, ya think you might get a clue?
And yes Force, we get that old familiar feel like from the "one who shalt not be named"..... same style, same narcissism, same stupidness. I mean, come on, you honestly think thats gonna impress someone who already knows better about "pon"? Great vid for those AP n00bs you love to collect up, keep 'em intrigued. -
daggone it!!! I cant wait for the major-league Zombie-bashing zone events! Those get Epic!
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when i get exceptionally bored, i'll go run one of the dev choice arcs....
yesterday, we had an 8man all-hammer team run one of our sgmate's arc. It was loads of fun!
AE is a great source of fresh content and finally fixed to be what its suppose to be....
sorry farmers...... yes, go back to your regular farms and keep looting those purps so they drop in price PLZ!!! On the otherhand, salvage is going back up in price - guess you cant have your cake and eat it too :P -
wow, keep rolling this drama down da hill!
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so far, been able to get away w/ an 8stack and still recover immediately from nuking.... thats with 6slotted Efficacy Adaptor in the power and 3.01%/sec (3.38end/sec) build...
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Quote:yup, you're right about the +recovery. Found that out ingame. It was kind of freakish, gaining blocks of End right after nuking.... the key is able to strike enuf targets to overwhelm the -1000% recovery... whats that? 9-10 targets?Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
It's like this:
Heat Loss is used pre-nuke. Say on the spawn before the nuke is used. If that Heat Loss was fully saturated AND fully slotted, that would give the Blaster 1337% +Recovery (10 targets plus 1 caster).
The game caps that at the Blaster's Recovery cap (500%), but also remembers that the Blaster actually does have 1337%. It basically says, "OK, you've got this much, but I'm only going to let you use this much."
The Blaster then nukes the next spawn. This zeroes his END, but also applies a 1000% -Recovery debuff on him. This is where the game says, "OK, you had 1337%, now you just lost 1000%. You're now at 337% +Recovery."
And that's how a slotted, saturated Heat Loss can bypass the Recovery crash. It can't avoid the END crash. Nothing can do that except lucky timing*. But it will let you start regaining END immediately instead of after 10s.
Also note that we're talking about the Recovery crash, not the END crash. There's 2 crashes. The END crash zeroes your blue bar. The Recovery crash keeps it zeroed for 10s after. Nukes have both, tier 9s tend to have just the END crash (only Elude, Overload and Power Surge come with both).
* - By lucky timing, I mean that you're zeroing out right as you get a Recovery tick, thus you drop to zero inbetween server ticks and thus don't lose your toggles. -
hey - i have ZERO complaints. Personally, i think Felecia ran the event fair and well.....
yeah, i woke up hella late but figured to join in to still have fun and represent.
What were we - 12min late to the event which counted against us :P
Didnt know all SG's would start at the same time - which is smart. Could have taken at least 2nd place, grabbed 1 person on the fly. If i had been able to grab another aoe'r or taunter, could have beaten AOW in their own game. In "real time", was only 4min off of them.... spent one of those minutes trying to convince another to join real quick before getting in...... next time, i'll be there on time and have a stronger organized showing
Our team got a 200M reward for 3rd place - who's gonna complain about that? -
Quote:and.... had a mass communal orgy....Originally Posted by GenderPoison
Wouldn't It Be Great If...
All of us could be there. -
Quote:aye, we appreciate you guy's input - im lousy with numbers and calculations... i just go ingame and wack to get the real numberz...Originally Posted by Diellan_
Well, all I had was a bunch of numbers and chains written down without any of the conclusions... As I said, this was from some work Garent and I did over a year ago.
And now that I look closer and see some of the random extra stuff I had written on the side (numbers without labels, yay), it looks like we were exclusively going not for dps of the chain, but highest stacking -Res, and the Screech chain came out on top because it would waver between 4 and 6. This was before the "fix" to Lightning Storm, and Garent did have a Storm/Sonic build that he was working on which would reach the recharge required (with perma-hasten). I don't recall if this was the chain we stuck to, but Garent did manage to solo the Psychic Clockwork King without using temp powers at that time, so...
I don't know if the Storm/Sonic build would be able to keep up with that anymore, but the Screech chain is probably a good one (if you can get it) for team situations, where each -Res application is worth a ton of damage. On a solo basis, it's crap.
Also, I left the Scream without the -Res out on purpose so that nobody wouldn't accidentally count it twice when they started factoring in -Res values. I think anybody doing that math wouldn't forget that it buffs itself. -
Quote:hehe, now you're thinking big! Try this starter chain if you decided to get shout AND EF :POriginally Posted by BrandX
Hmmm...now I'm curious as to which chain to use for those times I want to try and solo the big boys.
Shriek - Scream - Shriek - Shout
or
Shriek - Scream - Shriek - Electric Fence
The DPS is close enough on both of them not to matter.
Shout keeps stacking the -resist however, so while number wise it already seems to do a few more points than the one ultilizing Electric Fence, it should also do more, just because it keeps stacking the -Resist.
Electric Fence however has the benefit for keeping at a farther range, but it's only an additional 10ft. So that might not be much of a difference to make it worthwhile.
However EF might stack up enough to immobilize the target to one spot, which might have it's own benefit.
A thought I have, is grab both Shout and Electric Fence, and switch out on which chain to go with depending on the target.
Do I want the target rooted? Is Tar Patch not keeping them in one spot enough?
You also have to remember to slot Electric Fence as an attack.
But I think for my build, I'll just go with Shout.
If EF was able to slam a Chance to Immobilize Proc in it, I'd grab it. But without that, I have to hope I can stack enough EF's on the target to keep them rooted (which at the speed of the chain, and the duration of the immobilize it's probably possible to keep a target rooted.
All that said, I think I should point out, for normal game play, an actual sustained attack chain really isn't needed (I'm sure some of you know this, but for those who don't
).
SCREECH + AMPLIFY + SHOUT + SHRIEK + SCREAM + SHRIEK + EF
then switch back to the traditional chain you previously mentioned -
Quote:im gonna have to test what doomguide and rush bolt saying... i'll be surprised if one char starts recovering immediately after crashing... i swear ive tried that before. Maybe not enuf targets hitted, maybe not enuf end in HL - will have to check that out to see if it worx, cuz i'd rather detonate HL prior to blizzard to full debuff nuke....Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
It's like this:
Heat Loss is used pre-nuke. Say on the spawn before the nuke is used. If that Heat Loss was fully saturated AND fully slotted, that would give the Blaster 1337% +Recovery (10 targets plus 1 caster).
The game caps that at the Blaster's Recovery cap (500%), but also remembers that the Blaster actually does have 1337%. It basically says, "OK, you've got this much, but I'm only going to let you use this much."
The Blaster then nukes the next spawn. This zeroes his END, but also applies a 1000% -Recovery debuff on him. This is where the game says, "OK, you had 1337%, now you just lost 1000%. You're now at 337% +Recovery."
And that's how a slotted, saturated Heat Loss can bypass the Recovery crash. It can't avoid the END crash. Nothing can do that except lucky timing*. But it will let you start regaining END immediately instead of after 10s.
Also note that we're talking about the Recovery crash, not the END crash. There's 2 crashes. The END crash zeroes your blue bar. The Recovery crash keeps it zeroed for 10s after. Nukes have both, tier 9s tend to have just the END crash (only Elude, Overload and Power Surge come with both).
* - By lucky timing, I mean that you're zeroing out right as you get a Recovery tick, thus you drop to zero inbetween server ticks and thus don't lose your toggles. -
one odd thing about HL is sometimes, the +end buff is delayed, sometimes individually delayed. Sometimes instead of one big clump of +end, you see individual +end buff apply quickly on your end bar. One possible reason, the game is lagging behind all its hit roll calculations it needs to do with the power (2 types for buff and debuff?) in a very large crowd (cap of 16 hits?)
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Quote:yeah, i wish....Originally Posted by Psylenz
I am still unclear that all the pre-nuke heat loss buff can negate a 1000% end loss, but I do know if a blaster nukes and kills everything in a group, we go to the next group directly and fire off heat loss then and his end bar is filled, plus some recovery. Am I off point? If I were this nuker, I pop a blue and advance to a nearby foe to replenish the end bar.
a presetted Heat Loss wont prevent Nuke Crash. A "timed" Heatloss, casted a second after a nuke will "counter" any player's "nuke crash" and prevent it from going to Zero, if received enough end buff. I do this with my Cold/Ice's all the time...
Going with using HL as a Debuffer - A good combo for a Cold/Ice Def (this wont work if you have a "burst" nuke) is to cast their Sleet (-30% resist debuff), Cast your Ice Storm, Cast Aim(+50% damage for 10 secs of a DoT's damage), Cast Blizzard, use an End Inspire after crash, Cast Heat Loss. HL will amp up your Blizzard's damage(since its a prolonged massive DoT) on a whole mobgroup and does ungodly ungodly damage. Also, they're capped slowed, and capped -recharge im sure. Also you end up w/ a full End meter, and by the time you might run out of End, your Nuke Crash is over, your end buff kicks in bigtime. Its a win/win situation. The def can get away using their nuke(and actually do blaster-like damage w/ it) w/o feel of end gimpyness and also kick off an awsome debuff, +end stacks, and end buff stacks for the team. Depending on the recharge of your def, you can speed cast Sleet before the END of Blizzard (vamping up Blizzard's damage yet again, plus minor damaging Sleet w/ HL -resist debuff), finishing ANYTHING else thats still crawling.....
If you're running TWO Cold/Ices, you can possibly get away from Nuke Crashes altogether. One casts their nuke, the other immediately casts HL. That same person casts their nuke, and the original nuker casts their HL. The double HL debuff will get most of both nukes' prolonged DoT -
fortunately and unfortunately, we all are continuously judged.... its a matter whether we accept it for what it is and change or do not accept it and not change....
"good players" are judged and scrutinized as much, if not even more, as "bad players" -
not really good at nitpicking one's build.....
just want to say that the powerset's not a conventional or seen combination, which i really appreciate if its made effective....
looks like your setup makes your defender a great damage mitigator for your team
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cool beanz - keep posting your chains (including required recharge times that does with the chains) and the applications/usage for them....
this weekend, i'll try to rework the OP to integrate the information presented thru the threads -
<--- just passed out from massive bacon exposure!!!!
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Quote:lolOriginally Posted by War_Admiral
And since the SB issue has been beat to death on these boards, I'll just say this as a final note regarding my observations while in game and just reading the boards.
I really get the feeling that a lot of people (including long time vets) would rather take a n00b kin willing to keep the team SBed at all times over a really good kin that doesnt have SB. And that to me is pretty sad.
"Hey, you wanna join this tf!"
"Sure, why not"
"You got SB?"
"..."
Not really sure if it's fair to judge a player based on powers he does or doesnt have that help you!
You either know the player is good and his toon will help the team, or you're looking for specific powers in certain builds.
where's steel brigade when needed? he's so good at vocalizing the difference between the responsibilities of soloing and teaming....
As Force said, every hero ought to have some of the basic "stand-out" powers of their powersets. Ought to, but not required at all, considering you're playing for yourself. But when you get into a "teaming" atmosphere, there will be expectations from you that you will need to provide, or you may find yourself back to being your lonesome again.
A teamleader has EVERY right to be as demanding as they want to be. Ummm, last i heard, joining a team is still predicated on a voluntary basis. This doesnt make them right in any means, but it still means its THEIR team, and not yours. Any time i didnt like a TL's calls, i always remember - if i dont like it, i should start my own team..... yeah. If you dont have enough gumption or rep to be able to start your own team, you can either change the build to provide the basic powers that would attract yourself to a team OR go back to soloing. Cuz the only person that complain about that is yourself.
Complaints about not getting picked up about certain powers are silly imo.
#1 - change your build to be more team-friendly and team-attractive
#2 - Start your own team and then you can dictate how things go
#3 - Solo, and you dont have to be bugged about your build