Clarifying Heat Loss

From the Guide to Cold Domination:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo_Ski Heat Loss summons two separate non-target pets, one to do the buff and one to do the debuff. The buff pet is auto hit and the debuff pet requires a ToHit check for all it's effects except for the one foe targeted (that one foe is auto hit). Buff pet does (15 ft. Radial): +Recovery +Endurance Debuff pet does (20 ft. Radial): -SPD -Recharge -Res -Endurance -Summons Buff pet to radiate from target When you activate Heat Loss the buff pet is summoned to radiate from you once and the debuff pet hits the target as a radial AoE. The debuff pet then summons the buff pet to radiate off each enemy in the AoE (This is auto hit). All the other effects of the debuff pet require a ToHit check for each enemy that wasn't the targeted one. The reason the targeted foe is auto hit is because it needs to summon the buff pet again for that to be auto hit off each enemy.

To make sure and to figure the power out:

So there is at least one guaranteed self-buff of +recov and +end. This self-buff radiates around the Heat Loss caster and provides +135% recovery (hitting only one target and having no EndMod slotted.)

Any enemies within 20 feet of the target will suffer the debuff effects (-res, etc.) only if the casting passes an accuracy check. Does the original target always suffer the debuffs automatically, or does the debuff also have to "roll" to hit the original target?

Players within 15 feet of the target receive the +recov (and +end?) buff. What +% is this recovery bonus, the same as the buff that radiates from the caster? Is this buff automatic, so that there are at least two guaranteed +recov buffs?

Secondary targets within 20 feet of the original target also radiate +recov buffs. Is the accuracy roll required for the buff to fire from each secondary target, or is this automatic for each critter within 20' of the original target? What +recov% and +end comes from these buffs?

What is the maximum number of targets that can radiate the buffs (or suffer the debuffs)? Mids' count only goes to 3, but I've certainly received at least 8 buff icons in the one level that I've had Heat Loss.

Nuclear/Math questions:

• How many Heat Loss buff targets are required to cap recovery with no EndMod enhancements (assuming no Stamina)?
  
  How many Heat Loss targets (in a Heat Loss with no EndMod enhancement) would it take to overcome the post-Nuke recovery debuff? Is it possible, since--I think--two EndMods in Adrenalin Boost can do this?
  
  How many Heat Loss targets would it take to overcome the post-crash "tier-9" armor recovery debuff?
  
  Is there reason to slot EndMods themselves in Heat Loss, outside of set bonuses?

Thanks in advance to answerers.

Thank you very much for the precise and detailed response. Hmmmm. Now how to squeeze EndMod into the build...

One question:

Heat Loss with endmod enhancements and hitting sufficient targets will counter a nuke crash in the same way Adrenaline Boost would by providing enough +recovery to counter the penalty so you immediately start regaining endurance post nuke. Unlike AB it will also add +end directly much like Transference if you are in the area and effected when Heat Loss is used. Normally and more realistically the boost of +end occurs prior to the use of the nuke (or you risk having no targets for Heat Loss :P).

With 10 targets effected my Cold/Ice is well over the +recovery cap and beyond. As I recall it takes around 7 targets to cap him and hitting just one foe will keep his end bar topped short of nukes or heavy -recovery/-end foes.

Also much like AB it seems rather random and variable as to what stays toggled on post nuke. I've had it range from all my toggles drop to none, with the norm being something between the two extremes. For the record those toggles are normally the following: Maneuvers, Tactics, Super Speed, Sprint and Arctic Fog. Sometimes Snow Storm is running as well but with any luck it's detoggled by the targets death in the next second or so anyway.

Edit: and as a separate note, it only take one Endmod to overcome the nuke crash in AB (my usual Empath slotting is 5 Doctored Wounds and 1 lvl 50 Endmod common which yields roughly 967.7% regen and 1139% recovery)

I am still unclear that all the pre-nuke heat loss buff can negate a 1000% end loss, but I do know if a blaster nukes and kills everything in a group, we go to the next group directly and fire off heat loss then and his end bar is filled, plus some recovery. Am I off point? If I were this nuker, I pop a blue and advance to a nearby foe to replenish the end bar.

If I'm understanding your question it's the difference between losing your toggles or a chance not to, among other things. If you are already under a strong +recovery buff (like in Heat Loss or AB) when you nuke you could look at your toggles and find them all still running. No need to retoggle and by the time you move to the next mob you end bar is likely nearly full, certainly full enough to start unleashing on the next mob without pause. If instead you wait to use Heat Loss on the next mob all your toggles are down (like armor toggles) regardless of how full or not your end bar is when you get to the next mob. Now obviously if you are running few or no toggles this is much less an issue.

One of the "other things" is Heat Loss carries a -resist (-30% for a defender) to its targets, so ideally the hypothetical toggleless blaster/defender/corruptor etc., benefits by waiting to nuke after Heat Loss rather than prior because the foes are also -resist debuffed when you nuke.

Edit: This isn't "some" recovery we are talking about ... it's the equivalent of having 5 Recovery Auras running on you and a bit more.

one odd thing about HL is sometimes, the +end buff is delayed, sometimes individually delayed. Sometimes instead of one big clump of +end, you see individual +end buff apply quickly on your end bar. One possible reason, the game is lagging behind all its hit roll calculations it needs to do with the power (2 types for buff and debuff?) in a very large crowd (cap of 16 hits?)

It certainly works that way with Adrenalin Boost slotted with at least one End mod given
pre-nuke

Thanks Cat and Rush for clarifying cap math.

The character in question is Cold/Ice (or Polyester/Honey & Pollen since i16), so I am looking forward to the Aim-Sleet-Ice Storm-Blizzard routine and figuring out where Heat Loss fits in most effectively will be part of the fun. Since the two big damages are DoTs, having the HL -res in place before the nuke is a little less important.

Depends on the slotting. Up thread Rush Bolt put it at 9 foes effected to cap +recovery without any Endmod in Heat Loss. Think my Cold/Ice does it with 7 icons with his current slotting (endmod, endmod/rech, endmod/rech/acc, endmod/acc from the perfomance shifter set plus a rech IO common)

so far, been able to get away w/ an 8stack and still recover immediately from nuking.... thats with 6slotted Efficacy Adaptor in the power and 3.01%/sec (3.38end/sec) build...