PC_guy

yea but it isn't necessary and can be supplemented with everything else in the set. stealth, KB, stacking stuns, taking priority targets to make sure you always have something to SC off of, kiting, using nova to stay out of range ect.

purples are great for recharge and not defense, as you've already figured out.

purples are great for warshades because they don't really need the defense as much as they do the recharge because they can benefit more from the recharge. faster attacks in forms, perma eclipse, faster SC, faster mires ect. other toons tend to be the opposite (benefit more from defense than recharge i mean)

once you hit a point with your recharge, you don't really need defense bonus. for instance, my WS has perma hasten and has no room for defense bonuses, but i don't feel I need them so it's not skin off my back since i've yet to find anything that is overly difficult that i just simply can't survive.

i was/am under the impression that pvp is dead.

call me when i can pvp with my RP toon

kay

hows that?

if you truly think that incarnate powers are for lazy people who don't invest in their builds and that using them is somehow cheating the system by using all the tools available to you, you're wrong.

you made a claim on a forum. a claim that is very against popular opinion. what were you expecting?

it's like if i started a thread about how i kick all defenders off my teams because they aren't emps, and then be surprised when people start arguing with me about that.

it has nothing to do with my love of incarnates. It would have been my first comment (along with bring breakfree's which your OP said you didn't have any) because it is, for late game, the best way of dealing with mez. period. it doesn't take that long to get, as someone else said t3 can perma, getting up to that point even casually doesn't take all that long and can be alot less if you get lucky with drops.

this wasn't/isn't true at all.

after IOs hit, "having a great team mix" died. the team consistency to run anything(with afew exceptions, a mezzer for lg comes to mind) doesn't matter. pre incarnates, I ran multiple speed master runs in short times with no tanks, heals, ect. i.e. not what most would consider a "good team mix"

all that matters, now and then, in terms of how difficult any trial is, is directly proportionate to how skilled/good the players running it are.

>implying that you invested in your toon since you don't have them which begs the question of how could your(any) toon on any difficulty vs. any mob group die as much as you say you did from two mobs.

it's not easy mode. or rather, it's no more easy mode than using insp, accolades, temp powers, t9s ect. ya, you can believe what you want, but that doesn't make your argument against any less crappy

i'll hold my breath

I don't really agree with this. VEATs were designed better. period. their powers make sense, you contribute to teams, you do good damage, you have a multitude of utilites at your disposal, you can play that 1 character many different ways, all 3 different specs for each VEAT meshs well with the others. this is not the entirely the case EATs. they can also do most of those things, they just don't do it nearly as well as a VEAT does.

the fundamental idea of EATs is fine and good. Hell, from my perspective, they share the same base idea that VEATs use, but they're victoms of time. they're so outdated, and need to be buffed in order to bring them back up to date and on par with everything else.

they don't need a rewrite overhaul. but i think we could all agree that they need buffing and that if they did do a complete overhaul while still keeping the same basic idea of khelds, that whatever they come up with would mesh much much more adequately and efficiently than it currently does while still keeping the same identify that khelds have.

they still would be anyway due to the inherent. hell both dwarfs can cap res without light form or eclipse with minimal slotting and CB/DS

if you were to do this along with change either the shields or the inherent to give something else then maybe. but doing one without the other would render this change very meh.


personally i'm for keeping both they way they are now, giving dwarf psi res (while leaving that out of LF and taking it out of eclipse) and increasing the HP buff/cap to keep dwarfs relevant (maybe some more slow res but not necessary)along with reducing the res value the shields give and giving it a defense or mez component.

that way you change both ATs without having to drastically change either power(save eclipse's psi res subtraction) while attaining the same goal

single raged footstomp maybe. but SO's can double stack rage. and you can take pyre mastery for fireball. and thats before taking a primary that boosts damage or has another AoE. he's saying that we shouldn't compare footstomp to solar flare and too look at all the tools the AT has, and then tries to justify his point by not following that line of logic. thats my problem with it.

I wouldn't necessarily say that though. KB is better than KD for what they're designed to do, that being keeping an enemy on its back so that it isn't attack anything. the real problem is what you said.
Bingo! and thats the problem with all splash damage type AoE KB. it doesn't synergize and you can't control it.

gravnetic emanation you can control, power push you can control, force bolt you can control, it's much harder to control solar flare, explosive blast, or any other T/PBAoE knockback.

seems like, dunno if it actually does. the numbers joe has posted show that it really doesn't bring us alot closer, alittle sure but not on par. and even if it did bring them on par with warshades, both khelds are lightyears behind VEATs. it's night and day playing the two ATs, and very obvious that one was made latter, and made with sense and logic.

while i think we should aim for being on par with VEATs, I don't think it's actually plausible to expect. VEATs, have no holes in their design, they have mez, they don't suffer from down times due to form changing, they give team buffs, they're able to soft cap very easily, good damage, don't have a slot crunch, they can tank better, deal damage better, pets are better aren't reliant on enemies I could go on and on. I think it'd be entirely more likely that VEATs would get nerfed down to somewhere inbetween their current level and khelds current level than it is likely that khelds be buffed up to anywhere close to their level.

>implying that whatever that is going on in RV is pvp.


kb doesn't happen often enough to count.

^^^^

too bad hawk didn't know what he was talking about when he said that, because there is no way that a pb is out damaging a SS character in any damage area.

i played my warshade with SOs before i could scrap enough money together to purp it. there is absolutely no way I would still be playing it if I didn't invest as much as i did.

As a matter of fact thats what I was doing last night, didn't seem to be any worse than normal

I never said it didn't. I was simply saying that I don't have it on my high recharge build and i don't feel the need to have it. my WS barely die's as is, it'd help me alittle bit but not if i have to give up alot for it.

sometimes, i also farm demons no 3/8. normally when i team though i speed stuff so i'm not really sharing aggro.

eclipse always keeps me capped, there is always something to heal off of with SC and it's up every 5 seconds and stuff gets stunned.

defense is a non-issue solo or on teams.

you can build for defense but i find its hardly necessary. this is my build that is perma hasten perma eclipse. any time you don't have enough for eclipse, i find that whatever you lack is more than made up for by DS. and even then if you're still not capping, i'll got SC up every 5ish seconds that something will always be dead for, at the worst, a 400ish heal. I also went cardiac since i had some end problems and the res helps abit. all that is on top of the fact that you can stack all kinds of stuns via GE, inky, and unchain. defense really shouldn't be needed.

the build is triform but was orignally, and can be reverted to human form, i only went tri because i found nova to be more helpful for DPSing on trials and picked up dwarf only recently.

with the recent change to make dwarf switching non-interruptable and (knock-on-wood) with arbitor hawk supposedly wanting to lower the animation times in the upwards of half the time, i figure that'll be a sufficient form of mez prot. i've also got clarion which is pretty much solves any mez problems, but if new dwarf mez works out, i'll drop that for rebirth.

tl:dr here's my build, high recharge high expense, defense isn't need for survivability and if you want it for psuedo mez prot, clarion and/or new dwarf will probably be much more suitable replacements. if you wanna convert the tri-form to human form you could drop dwarf and nova for like detonation and snare or something


Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.92
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Science Warshade
Primary Power Set: Umbral Blast
Secondary Power Set: Umbral Aura
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Concealment

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Ebon Eye -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), GJ-Acc/End/Rech(7), GJ-Dam/Rech(7), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), GJ-Acc/Dmg(21), Dev'n-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 1: Absorption -- Aegis-Psi/Status(A)
Level 2: Gravity Shield -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 4: Orbiting Death -- Dmg-I(A)
Level 6: Dark Nova -- ToHit-I(A)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(9), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 12: Sunless Mire -- Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(A), ImpSwft-Dam%(13), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(25), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Armgdn-Dam%(27)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(A), Winter-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx(37)
Level 16: Shadow Blast -- Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(17), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Apoc-Dam%(43)
Level 18: Essence Drain -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(19), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), Heal-I(31), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 20: Gravity Well -- Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(A), Hectmb-Dam%(29), UbrkCons-Dam%(31), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(39), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(39)
Level 22: Black Dwarf -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 24: Stygian Circle -- Numna-Heal/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal(29), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 26: Unchain Essence -- Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(40), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Ragnrk-Dmg(42)
Level 28: Inky Aspect -- Amaze-Stun/Rchg(A), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(31), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(42), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(45), Amaze-ToHitDeb%(50)
Level 30: Gravitic Emanation -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Rope-Acc/Rchg(43)
Level 32: Dark Extraction -- ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(A), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), S'bndAl-Acc/Rchg(33), S'bndAl-Dmg(33), S'bndAl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), S'bndAl-Dmg/Rchg(37)
Level 35: Stealth -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 38: Eclipse -- Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/Rchg(40), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 41: Stygian Return -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Shadow Cloak -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), SW-Def/Rchg(46), SW-EndRdx/Rchg(50), SW-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 47: Grant Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Invisibility -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Dark Sustenance
Level 1: Shadow Step -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 10: Shadow Recall -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(3)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(3), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(5), P'Shift-End%(5)
------------
Level 6: Dark Nova Blast -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(11), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15)
Level 6: Dark Nova Bolt -- Dmg-I(A)
Level 6: Dark Nova Detonation -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(46), Posi-Dmg/Rng(46), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48)
Level 6: Dark Nova Emanation -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(36), Posi-Dmg/Rng(37), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45)
Level 22: Black Dwarf Antagonize -- Acc-I(A)
Level 22: Black Dwarf Drain -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A)
Level 22: Black Dwarf Mire -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Rchg(34), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 22: Black Dwarf Smite -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A)
Level 22: Black Dwarf Step -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Black Dwarf Strike -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A)

Meh.

not *all*. I could give a **** if i looked up and all my fendurs suddenly didn't have vigilance, because it really doesn't do anything for the AT outside of the solo damage buff. the same could be said for conditioning with veats or gauntlet for tanks.

i think the problem here and what A. hawk is seeing is that CB and DS do *so* much more than some other inherents and can be so powerful that he's afraid of making it more. But, as you said, i'm for taking alot of the power out of the inherent, making the ATs more self sufficient, and making the inherent do a consistent, however smaller, buff.

defenders aren't as OP as khelds are. clearly.

>.>
<.<
*looks at force multipliers and runs*

what about WSs then? they don't have the analogous powers that PBs do. would you just leave them as is while giving PBs this massive overhaul? i don't think that seems fair. and hardly necessary for that matter.

live and nvidia 9600

even if they do, i think that'd be a fair price to keep them going. with inherent stamina on top of the recov bonus that forms give I can't imagine it being all that much of a problem.

I don't think its entirely impatience (thats some of it but not all). The sheer lack of communication between devs and players is a very very scary thing. The whole bit about pbs having more aoe potential than SS characters more than shows that. If we got someone, anyone, to come in here and start discussing this stuff with us, what we want, what they want, what is actually do-able, what isn't ect. that'd be enough to stifle me until whenever the devs can get around to it, because that would atleast offer some form of solid hope as opposed to the horrible opposite of uncertainty.

when did anyone say anything about /wp or mind link? maybe you should read the thread, understand what we're asking for and why then we'll talk

here's positive feedback for ya, i'd feel alot better about that set and khelds in general if they buffed the forms. gave dwarfs a higher cap/a little higher base HP and buffed the individual form blasts on top of taking whatever the 40% damage buff is and adding that into the attacks as well.

change the enhancement from more damage in nova form to a proc on all attacks, and the HP buff would be more noticeable with a higher cap since my PB hits that with perma essence boost.

those along with the human form changes i listed a few posts up would put khelds on par with veats, which i think should be our ultimate goal here. obvsiously that much harder to do if the devs aren't communicating with us; telling us how they view kheldian's power level(inb4 >9000) and how close/far away it is from being on par with other sets.

but as is, I can't see how buffing afew underperforming powers in human form/bugged powers and buffing the forms would make khelds OP. As for the negetivity zone, I think everyone is disappointed here because everyone has a pretty good idea of what we think needs to be done and that if we don't get these things now, when they're supposedly looking at the AT, the chances of getting more fixes next issue dramatically drops, even if the devs say otherwise (see sig).

depending on how it works, it might not be. if it just add a bigger buff on top of the 40% it just gets us that much closer to the cap which my WS is already hitting anyway. seems rather pointless if it works like that.