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Posts
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Joined
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No offence, but you cannot have it both ways even in Kheldian happy happy land.
Either you want the power to remain unchanged except for making it AOE (in which case well slotted it WILL beat Empathy)...OR
You want the Power to be AOE and have the amount of heal reduced to compensate for it being an AOE, in which case it is below empathy's ability, but also now heals the PB for less than it used to.
If there is a third choice I'm all ears. -
Quote:Ok, I tried to remain the nicer kinder Obsidian but Mr. Hyde crept back out again, because to me this questions is like asking what is the smartest one cell organism, their all dumb as dirt and it's my natural reaction to say so. If given the choice at the level you have to pick one of the powers in the example I would pick Hasten as it opens up as well.For example: If a person is playing a human only, and they ask "which is the better power to choose from when it comes to Gravimetric Snare or Orbiting Death?",
"The One"
If their asking the question I'll give the answer I feel to be the most benificial to them and phrase it so they remember it, even if they dislike my "format". -
I do not understand the need for compromise as I have never taken a position that says anything remotely like "If your stats are good enough you do not need to learn to play well." and why people continue to place these sort of words in my mouth I dont know.
What I do know is that after a certain amount of play your play skills are going to top out, you simply will not get any better and infact your likely to decline as you get a little lazy once you know how much effort each type of enemy requires, and at this point the only thing that will improve your play is in the stats and i'll say it once again as it will likely be drowned out again.
*ahem*
"The only only philosophy I have a problem with is the one who consistantly believes and promotes that the comparison of builds, powers, and styles cannot be evaluated and compaired using numbers to determine what combination of styles, slots, and powers will yeild the best overall results for display to the people inquiring on the best way to build and play their Kheldian."
Some powers are better than others, they either have more damage, better recharge or lower endurance cost, by grouping the best of the powers together you can give what will be the best combination for efficiency in play to the most players. -
I was not doubting the verasity of your post at all, just found your switching builds interesting.
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The temptation to pick apart your post for proof my beliefs on Kheld building are correct is "almost" too much, but on this single part I totaly agree.
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Difficult but doable. This is my end goal.
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In my honest opinion, the only time slots become restrictive is if your trying to also slot up redundant powers such as the human blasts, beyond that most "good" powers on a Tri-Form seem to usually have 5-6 slots.
I'll leave the human form advice to others though. -
Actually, yes it will help keep you alive, you keep saying that I believe superior numbers alone are whats important and I never have. My ONLY arguement is that superior numbers will always help your survival no matter how good or badly you play. And how anyone can seriously argue this is beyond me.
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If your damage goes up 5% your blasting better. Your not trying to blast harder, you ARE.
If your ressists go up 10% your not trying to take less damage you ARE taking less.
If your playing crappy your STILL taking less damage and hitting harder, If your playing GREAT your still hitting harder and taking less damage. -
There is nothing wrong with being an average gamer, there is also nothing wrong with wanting to push your build as far as it will go, and I'm pretty sure other than a few oddballs everyone agrees with this.
Where "some" people have issues is when "some" people make veiled claims that maxing your build and improving your numbers will not improve performance due to the "complexity" of possible playstyles, this is rubbish as better numbers do by definition improve what you do.
These too are oddballs but they also exist. -
I have tried several alternate builds but none can improve your damage without sacrificing other needed stats mainly recharge, ressistance, and regeneration.
The only thing I saw that I might try if you could find 2 powers to drop would be Assualt (probably 2 slotted with end reductions) and Tactics, slotted with 2 Adjusted Targeting and a Gaussiens Build Up Proc.
This would give you +10.5% (Assualt) +2% (Ajusted Targeting) and a +2.5% (The average amount of damage added over the long haul for having a small build up chance) for a total damage improvement of +14.5%. I just didn't figure you would have two powers you could dump.
Very nice build. Very nice indeed. -
I actually believe she was talking about hasten not being perma with a total of 141.5% global recharge including hasten.
My total global recharge after a respec is now 180% including hasten and I barely have perma-hasten. -
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I have ALOT less experience on the PB side (one 44 PB I rarely ever play), but my experience is on a PB not having the squid is not alot of a loss, the PB's focus is on single target damage and hard targets, while a WS's focus is mainly AOE damage on soft to medium targets.
This is why my PB is mainly human with dwarf for heavy tanking situations while the WS uses mainly the squid and dwarf forms and human for the buffs and heals.
A PB can AOE but it's not it's forte, human form single target heavy hitter attacks is, and the reverse is true on the WS. In my opinion the force multipliers on a WS simply make the squid form AOE's too good to pass up. -
Quote:Depending on your difficulty setting it could very well be overkill or also not quite enough to 2 shot the whole bunch. And Quasar and other quasi-nukes are on a long timer even on the highest end recharge builds so I rarely include them as part of attack chains.
So while Nova will certainly give you more damage, the case can be made that it's a bit of overkill, at least on a Warshade.
I'll fully admit that first spawn will take a bit longer than it might for a human build, but once a squid form is buffed it can rip through a couple more spawns at least before having to do the whole squid dance thing again. -
Quote:Not to dispute (aww heck who am I trying to kid) but it's both a higher damage scaler and a 45% bonus damage, and with Eclipse there is little if any survivability decline, outside of having to drop to human form to fire Stygian (and most of the time with a good Eclipse you don't even need to heal)Really all you have to ask, Socorro, is this: If a Tri-Form really is head and shoulders above a human form build, then why did Castle feel that the simple addition of mez protection to human form completely obviate dwarf form?
If human form alone is powerful enough to do that to dwarf form, and Nova offers - at best - two single target attacks and two aoes at a higher damage scale (and lowered survivability) then human form builds are plenty powerful in and of themselves.
I believe Castles stated reason was you can cap ressists in human form using Eclipse and *if* human form had status ressistance there would be no use for Dwarf Form, and to be honest if status ressist was added I would most likely end up dropping dwarf, I would lose the ability to tank but I could pick up the Presence pool taunt and most likely do well enough in non-AV scenerios. -
Quote:I have to yeild ground on this one...perhaps you all need to scream and cry as much as the PVp'ers did to get the attention, but then again look what it did for them. Are you SURE you want anything changed?Revisions for a small percentage of players of the game?
*ahem*
i13 PvP changes, anyone?
Anyone?
Bueller?
"The One"
But the stone tank vs dwarf form question still remains and I am waiting for anyone to answer this. -
I like this one, the squiddiness is strong in him.
And he nailed my philosophy nearly exactly.
The most comon complaints I have found on Kheldians is lack of damage and suffering from mezz, and I seldom see these comments coming from Tri-Form builds. -
Yes, it didn't work at all, it did however reduce the hold time.
(yes I know the numbers do not work out but 15 levels of human only being held almost non-stop with acrobatics isn't something I would forget)
And just out of curiousity, how is dwarf form any different from the -70% move speed and --60% recharge speed and the ugly look of granite form and rooted?
I don't want my costume obscured and I dont want my attack chain limited either.
So whats the difference? -
Quote:Alright, fair enough (Ignoring the whole arrogant "disproved you again" jab, and not going into the whole "to disprove you actually need verifiable proof" thing.) but this leaves me in somewhat of an impossible situation.Sure.
Just try to take a shot at me when you know I'm wrong. Not just when you think I am. In this case, as with all other cases where you've assumed something about someone you know nothing about, I've disproved you yet again. Maybe you'll clue in sometime as to just how wrong you are about me.
Then again.... Probably not.
Whatevs.
"The One"
As such, to prove you wrong I need to show proof, something quantifiable that can be evaluated by everyone, and each and everytime I have attempted to do so you have thrown out without any stated reason why, any statistics that might prove you wrong.
Each time I have attempted to make a point either with or without using statistics you have ignored any points made, not just their accuracy but avoided responding to them in any way at all.
This makes it impossible to do anything at all but agree with whatever your saying because anything else will simply be ignored, trivialized or thrown out with a anecdotal story that does nothing but waylay people from the point I was just attempting to make.
If you make any claims at all in a public forum you have to be willing and able to back them up, and be willing to admit when you cannot (and I'm not refering to this thread, this was for me just an attempt to break your cool teflon attitude).
You "Seem" to reguard yourself as one of the top human only build players and I will not dispute that, I will not even make a claim to be one of the best Tri-Formers, but I dare say I have as much experience on my tri as you do with your human only, I run the numbers relentlessly and spend the majority of my playtime on my Kheld. I have also played a WS up to 40 using human only and to suggest I do not know what I am talking about in reguards to damage taken and delivered and the various styles used and what works best for each seems not just arrogant but obtuse.
You do not want Tri-Formers to be the "one ring to rule them all" I get that, but I also get that "most" players are interested in whatever build will work best in " the most" situations and I intend to make sure they get that information no matter what it might be, even if it is Human form only, and I will doggedly track down the statistics and numbers and do the in the field tests to make sure i'm not just throwing stuff out there. -
Quote:Your not allowed to agree with me it destroys the natural Arch-Nemesis thing.I agree... The "goal" of *most* WSs is to get Eclipse up as often as possible (perma, if possible), so slotting something like that in Eclipse would take away from what recharge you could get in there slot-wise...
"The One"
Please stop messing with the natural order of my universe.
Most hatefully yours:
Obsidian Force, Kheldian/Earth Ambassador of Peace and War. -
And revisions for a small subgroup of a small percentage of players isn't actually adding anything to the game either, and I do believe they are earning their living quite nicely.
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Quote:Heh actually I am relaxed and having fun. And I do have alot of speculation about you, most unrelated to CoH or games. out to attack you personaly? Not overly, but I won't pass up a chance to take a shot when I think your wrong, and hugely so. which seems to be often.This is exactly the sort of post that proves that you're basically out to just attack me personally, and not really contribute much to these forums other than argumentative posts.
I HAVE done PvP with my WS. I HAVE been killed switching forms. I HAVE been killed in all three forms. I HAVE had some "wins." Eclipse is NOT very useful when you're playing ONE ON ONE (as I stated before-again, just repeating myself, because you seem to be too thick-skulled and dense for reading comprehension). So, that's speaking from experience, and not speculation, as your misinformed and ignorant opinion seems to tell you I am speaking from. I just don't consider myself a "PvPer," because I don't do it "often," and therefore admitted it right from the start.
You don't know me. You don't know my experience. You don't know how many hours I've put into the game. You don't even know the extent of my knowledge of games in general, much less CoX. So, you can take all your "speculation" about me as a player (because that's all it really is--SPECULATION) and go f**k yourself with it.
Maybe that'll relax you a little bit. Sounds like that's what you need.
"The One"
Oh and Jeez man your taking this sooo seriously. Maybe you need to relax and step back a little. -
Out of everything I said you come to the conclusion I don't believe there is a discrepancy in play skills in the Kheldian community?
Either you truely do not have a clue what I'm pointing out (and I find this hard to believe) or your deliberatly sidestepping actual points I'm making for the purpose of not having to admit I have a point.
But in either case I have never disputed there are not varying levels of skill who use both build types.
I believe your avoiding the main point of contention that I have and that is (Again) that if you take 2 people of roughly similar skills each playing a respective type of build, one human only and the other Tri-Form one will perform better, consistantly and regularly. I will not say what would win out but I do know where I would place my money on that bet.
I do not care that once in a while one build or one athelete will give a super-human performance and wether or not it was captured onto video as proof the numbers are not absolute, I never said they were, the numbers will however show how things will play out "most" of the time. Not everytime but ALOT more often than not, and trying to say they are not a reasonably safe method of determining performance is pure idiocy as nearly EVERYTHING, EVERYWHERE is determined to be effective or not based on quantifiable statistics and almost always nothing else. The fact you do not like this means nothing, it IS the standard most logical human beings use to measure and assess everything in existance.
I have had enough anecdote for the next couple years between the Lance Armstrong schlock and the my friends think posts. Please try thowing something out there that might sway anyone who actually makes decisions based on something other than "it feels like this to me/It works best for me/my totaly unsubstantiated and unprovable opinion is" type of things. -
As somebody who actually has done some pvp with my WS, and not just posting speculation.
The holds are worthless, 2 seconds long 4 if your slotted for hold which detracts from your few spike damage sources.
I have never been killed changing forms so that theory is out the window in my opinion.
Eclipse IS very useful as you can find groups of mobs to mire eclipse and pet up with all over the zones.
Your main job is to annoy things either in squid form or by reducing their range with taunt in dwarf form and generaly harrassing other players until they decide they have had enough and break off playing smack the squishy to devote a few seconds of concentrated effort to kill your dwarf.
In my opinion there is no "good" pvp build for WS, I just wanted to take the time to point out another of Aliens posts to be not only speculative but wrong.
Good day.