Nozybida

I agree with the general consensus here. While I personally didn't mind the increased bosses I know the other archetypes/more casual players where hit pretty hard. I'm glad to see the devs coming to terms with this issue!

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Increase dmg please!
OR, give them 50 more points of end. (They're hulking powerhouses, cmon! The Hulk is tireless folks.)
OR, decrease end cost for powers.
OR a mix of the lot. Devs please. This archetype could be so much better than it is. I beg of you.

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I'm actually quite content with my damage (but of course I'm EM ). Tanks definitely need a decrease in end costs and defensive holes closed, or at the very least not so widely exploited by the latter part of the game.

Back to Rage though, I really don't see where it deserves a huge penalty to begin with. If its purpose is to put SS on par with the other sets then why not drop the penalty all together?

Leave the damage buff alone, leave its duration/recharge alone, and lower the +Acc so it needs some slotting with ToHit Enhances to reach its current bonus. I just don't see anything about Rage at all to suggest it is overpowering and deserving of some crippling side-effect.

What can I say, I must be a glutton for punishment? I really, really, really want to play my tanker. I really want to see tankers on par with their counterparts. I just can't rationalize spending the time on him though when I have a scrapper alt.

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They dont need to be nerfed.

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While I won't get as theatrical as SeeTen I do agree with his main point. Tankers are still a subpar archetype. Even with the new changes, as far as being useful and desireable, Tankers are far below the other archetypes in regards to a team.

Lousy End consumption, defenses with glaring holes for what is supposed to be the dominant Defensive archetype, lack of a useful role in the latter part of the game, they only thing they have going for them is cornering the market on some of the most popular concept powersets. Can anyone really say they would rather play a /SS tanker then a SS/ scrapper? Certainly not me.

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Many players complained about the stun at the end of Rage because it turned off toggles and left them helpless. At the same time, hardcore players with perma-unstoppable or Unyielding were able to avoid the Stun effect. Thus the casual player was getting penalized and hardcore player wasn’t getting the desired penalty. We're still looking at the issue - so feel free to post your thoughts & ideas!

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Was the 100% End drop another decimal error maybe? We seem to have a lot of those. When comparing Rage to other powers with downsides such as Stun effects and End drops (Elude, Nova, Hasten, etc.) the benefits of Rage don't equal out.

Other powers that formerly had end drops/stun effects where the gain wasn't considered overly great had the penalties actually removed (Adrenalin Boost comes to mind immediately).

In my mind the benefits of Rage are certainly not on par with a power such as Elude, and more in the range of something such as Hasten or AB, and its penalties should be in line with those powers as well, if there even needs to be a penalty at all.

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and I believe everything Statesman says like a good soldier.

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LOL That makes one of us.

If that is the "new ideal" then the devs have a hell of a lot of nerfing to do. Even the most gimped of power combinations can solo a boss at the higher levels.

If bosses are no longer considered to be "soloable content" and the archetypes are rebalanced to that ideal, then yes, the move is toward forced grouping.

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5) I have long been an advocate of reduced END cost for TP (and heck, clean up its usability, it's clunky) as well as speed cap increases AND ACC penalty removal on flight; travel powers should be a matter of taste/style ... but because of these kinds of issues, travel powers end up being number crunching decisions among the min/max crowd (and with good reason). ...

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This point I agree with. If the travel powers were equalized more it wouldn't be a min/max'ed City of Speeders.

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6) I personally think that high grav zones that spork flight/leaping ... and/or high magnetics zones that spork teleportation would be every bit as interesting as huge pits in the ground or high walls that spork superspeed. I find it humourous that people suggest said pits in the ground and said high walls add flavour ... but when suggestions are made to add similar flavour that spork other travel powers, they find the flavour distasteful. ....

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The thing is, you mentioned a handful of zones where SS is penalised. That is how Flight feels in EVERY OTHER ZONE. The zones that give SS/SJ problems are there to even out the problems when comparing Flight and SS/SJ, to give Flight an advantage in a handful of zones.

What you and some others were asking for is it to have the one limitation of SS removed, and as I said I would be all for it if other sets like Flight and TP had theirs removed. Until the devs are willing to do things like reduce TP's end cost and up flight's speed though, I have a feeling you are just going to have to live with the fact that SS has its limits just like all the others.

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Equal treatment of travel powers.

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I got no problems with things being made easier for speeders. Ramps, run up walls, whatever.

IF Flight gets upped to the speed of Super Jump and TP gets a big End Cost Reduction. Equal Treatment baby.

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Because everything is more frighting if you add "of Doom" to it.

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Laser Eye Beams!

Laser Eye Beams of Doom!!

Hey you're right!

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I don't even find a SLOW to be "comic book". I don't recall seeing many tanks creeping slowly around, let alone being locked in place.

[/ QUOTE ] The Blob from the X-Men stories.

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LOL, I am the only one that notices The Blob is used more often to describe CoH tankers than The Thing or Colossus? Am I the only one who thinks there is something wrong with that?

Eh, wouldn't be the first time I guess.

LOL, for once I completely agree with Statesman!

Lets not over-react people, I think the Epic Power Pools will be a lot of fun.

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I've played and seen awesome tankers in action (go go Pain Mistress - uberest tanker on Victory IMO). The entire concept behind tankers is aggro magnets. If I want to dish out some melee damage, I need to play my scrapper. If I want to pull and hold aggro, I need to play the spongy tanker.

A potential way to further elaborate on a tankers role is giving the tanker a bonus to taunt & provoke, much like defenders have a bonus on the leadership power pool.

The tankers and scrappers may now proceed with one starring me into oblivion.

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That post is the very reason for for the following. Statesman care to answer?

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Statesman, do to the desire for some people to "punch the bejeezus outta stuff" what considerations have been made to allow tanker secondaries such as Super Strength or Energy Melee to cross over into the Scrapper Primaries?

What if any new powersets are in the works for Scrapper Primaries that will allow for offensive minded characters to capture the feel and flavor of the above mentioned sets?

What, if any, reasons are there for the reluctance to this point to either cross over these powersets or add new powersets to acheive this?

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8 man mission, one level 31-32 Katana/regen Scrapper
2 Sk'd Tanks
1 Storm/Elec Defender(main herding "tank")
and miscelanous

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Wait a minute! You are talking about a group where the Storm Defender was herding and serving as the tank and you are calling the Regen scrapper overpowered?

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Keep asking if Tankers can get Blaster primaries and if SS will become a Scrapper primary as well.

Like I said, Not gonna happen.

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LOL, asking for Blaster Primaries? Clueless much?

Like I said until a red name comes on the forum and says it I'll keep asking.

Statesman, do to the desire for some people to "punch the bejeezus outta stuff" what considerations have been made to allow tanker secondaries such as Super Strength or Energy Melee to cross over into the Scrapper Primaries?

What if any new powersets are in the works for Scrapper Primaries that will allow for offensive minded characters to capture the feel and flavor of the above mentioned sets?

What, if any, reasons are there for the reluctance to this point to either cross over these powersets or add new powersets to acheive this?

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i would also like to know if energy melee could possibly be a scrapper primary

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Nope, not gonna happen.

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Did Statesman log on with the wrong acount again?

Till the big guy comes on here and says it, I'll keep asking.

We've heard that Super Strength WILL NOT become available to scrappers at any point.

What about the possibility of Energy Melee or another powerset with the same type of feel for those who want to "punch the bejeezus outta stuff"?

We've heard that Super Strength WILL NOT become available to scrappers at any point.

1) What about the possibility of Energy Melee or another powerset with the same type of feel for those who "want to punch the bejeezus outta stuff"?

2) Care to elaborate on the reasonings behind why this type of power sharing is not allowed?

I think you are right Kali. Having Recon and DP early must make things much easier. I never would have described the first 27 levels as hell. In fact my DM/Regen scrapper was the most fun of any build I have played, especially at those levels.

Maybe the people who say that have just never played a controller or Tanker?

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I agree, let Tankers have SOMETHING to themselves... Besides, there'd be less Tankers than ever if they did this, so I'm glad they've decided not to...

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Tankers only have on shared set. Invulnerability. Scrappers having access to one of their melee lines in no way diminishes the tanker arcehtype. Of course if we really want to keep things unique how about Defenders getting access to Energy and Electrical blast? That is obviously not fair to blasters. And how about those poor defenders? Controllers have access to 5 of their powersets.

My point is powersets shouldn't be used as a carrot to play an arcehtype. if we are saying that is all tankers have then they need more work than a few tweaks to the aggro caused by their attacks.

If the devs are that determined on the restrictions to Super Strength how about Energy Melee? It feels pretty scrapperish anyway. Any chance of Energy Melee being ported over?

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2. After analysis, Scrappers CAN NOT reach the same levels of resistance as a Tank. Regeneration, though, is a small concern.

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Scrapper Secondary Power Invulnerability.
Unstoppable: base Resist 52.5%
2 SO Damage Resists = 73.5% Resistance to all but Psionic
Resist Physical Damage: base Resist ~9.3%
4 SO Damage Resists = 16.74%
Resist Energies/Elements: base Resist 15%
1 SO Damage Resist = 18%

Unstoppable 2 Slots+RPD 4 Slots+REn/Rel one slot = 90.24% Resistance to Smash/Lethal attacks, and 91.5% Resistance to Elemental/Energy attacks, effectively capped at 90%.

Tankers are also capped at 90% damage resistance. Is there something I am missing?

Edit: Actually someone reported that the base for Scrappers RPD was higher than I originally thought, so I updated my numbers, which actaully made RPD go from 6 to 4 slots to reach the cap.

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I believe Statesman already comment on the SS/Scrapper issue. I don't recall the exact wording he used but that was the gist of it is was to keep certain power sets unique to certain ATs

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Kinda like Energy Blasters or Rad Defenders? Not trying to take a shot at you, just making the point that a lot of powersets are shared across archetypes and it in no way takes away from the core archetype.

I don't want to derail the thread, I've already discussed this topic at length in others, I'd just be interested to see what reasoning the dev team has for making such an arbitrary restriction. It just doesn't make a lot of sense.

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Because then there would be around 75% less tanks than there already are...

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While I agree I don't see that as a very good reason not to do it. Seems like that would be a good reason to fix tankers though.

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They will not be adding super strength to scrappers.

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Care to elaborate on this any? I would be interested to hear the reasoning behind this.

That is some awesome work. Very nicely done!