Not_Rhino
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:I never saw anyone say it will have no impact on the number of instances per hour. It won't have much of an impact on PLing or Ticket gains, though. The reason it could potentially increase instances per hour by farming different mobs is because those mobs will no longer be self rezzing, meaning time spent on the map will be cut by up to one half, meaning farmers will be spending far less time on each map before zoning back out, getting the next mission, and going back in. This argument is not contradictory to anything else that poster has said. Less time spent killing mobs = less time spent per map = more instances.Originally Posted by joshdex
If people are simply going to "farm other mobs," how does that translate into "more instances per hour?"
Exactly how many players are farming the same mobs over and over, hours on end, at any given time?
If this "has no impact" on it, how is it magically going to "double the instances per hour?"
You're trying to make two contradictory arguments for the sake of deriding this change and hoping no one will notice. -
Quote:If MARTy wasn't affecting them, I took it as meaning that they weren't giving enough rewards so as to be considered exploitive by the devs. I guess that assumption was just plain wrong.Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
/all this.
A futile gesture, really. (Rather like trying to talk sense to Trollden Girl.) But, given that MARTy didn't seem to really be affecting these, I suppose they "had to be seen to do something." -
Quote:Even without the self rez you can still PL and maximize ticket gains pretty damn quickly, no exploits needed. Unless you consider facing enemies designed to do damage that you're protected against an "exploit". I really don't think it is, one could farm Rikti as an Elec or farm Council Empire as an Invuln just as well.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Fixing exploits is never totally pointless - but the problem with these AE fixes is that it leaves behind a pile of abandoned farm missions as the exploiters move on to the next exploit they've found, which just clutters up the AE mission list.
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Quote:I'd really like to know how this "helps" anyone. I get it, you hate farmers, think they're a cancer to the game, but honestly, how is this going to help you? The only impact I can see this having on non-farmers is increased market prices.Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Every little bit helps
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Quote:Do the farmers give you noogies and rip apart your AE story scripts?Originally Posted by Twoflower
Cue the Price is Right sad trumpet horns for all the farmers out there.
Cue Orson Welles clapping gif for all us AE story authors.
ALSO: It's not mentioned in the patch notes, but the AE custom costume bug which rendered most arcs uneditable and unpublishable seems to have been fixed! -
Quote:Yeah, it might take 3 minutes now.Originally Posted by Lady_of_Ysgard
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha! So much for all those stupid Fire/Regen farms, or DB/Regen. Good luck trying to maximize ticket earnings in 2 minutes now!
Seriously, this is barely going to put a dent in farms. It's more of an annoyance due to frequent map changes more than anything else. -
Major blow to farming. Well, not really. Just means people will be going in and out of missions more often. Doesn't that increase server load, and aren't we about to have an influx of new players? Heh.
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Quote:Couldn't they just use the same mechanics for the new AoE SB, FF shields, etc. to make it a targetted AoE that doesn't affect caster? Or even PBAoE that doesn't affect caster?Originally Posted by Irresponsible
Thanks and I believe you. Perhaps it could be done by simply flagging the caster to not be able to recieve any heals for a short time. So you'd be healing the party at the expense of not being able to heal yourself for a bit.
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Quote:Oh, I agree, we shouldn't be able to control as well as Warshades. But for a jack-of-all-trades AT, it'd be nice if we had something a little more reliable than Pulsar. I've always viewed the Warshade as more of a blastroller and the Peacebringer as more of a tankery offender. I'd be all for giving the PB more support capability, though I'd personally prefer some type of team buff over a PBAoE heal.Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Even if they do make Pulsar and IS more synergetic, we're never going to be able to mez as well as Warshades. Nor should we be able to.
But we're all the time asking for some sort of change that gives something back to the teams. We constantly complain about being seen as "leeches" and our inherent is "selfish."
So I'm constantly amazed by the resistance to some sort of support role for Peacebringers. Warshades can perma-stun an entire spawn to help teams out, and what can Peacebringers do? We already have some teammate healing ability, so why not improve on that?
You make a good point about Glowing Touch, but I see no reason to refuse an aoe component to an already existing self heal like Restore Essence even at the expense of any more changes.
Why? Because I highly doubt we get any more at all in the way of direct damage boosts, and I really think they've changed Photon Seekers as much as they intend. We might get Pulsar to work with Incandescent Strike, and we might get Solar Flare's kb changed to kd, but quite frankly those two changes - nice though they might be - wouldn't do as much to endear us to teams as increasing our direct team support capabilities.
I don't feel guilty asking for all of the above, but I don't see why team heals are being sold short so often. -
Quote:If Glowing Touch was a group heal it would be the fourth self-heal-capable power a Peacebringer has. I, for one, am fine without anymore heals. I'd personally rather do more damage and have some better mez capability than be able to heal allies.Originally Posted by Irresponsible
Oy! I was fine with Peacbringers the way they were except for maybe White Dwarf not doing enough damage but everybody said, "No, they sux compared to Warshades! Double sux to you!"
Now I gets on board with the changes and it's all "You triple sux! Light form is too powerful if you are level 50 and have massive amounts of IO bonuses!" or "Peacebringers still sux just like Warshades!"
Welcome to the Internet, right?
So instead of giving White Dwarf alone higher damage numbers and/or faster recharge and/or another attack or a damage effect in Antagonize, they decide to go with making the taunt autohit. I can live with that especially considering how great Inner Light is.
Why make Reform (or was it supposed to be Restore?) Essence a group heal when poor neglected Glowing Touch is the perfect canidate for that? I absolutely love the idea of making Group Flight into a gravity damaging aura since right now nobody wants to touch it with a 10 foot pole. Yep, Glowing Touch, Group Flight, and maybe Quantum Flight are the powers I find most useless but if the Devs fixed them I'd have no room in my build for pool powers at all.
Not that I'd complain if they decided to do it... as long as it was in addition to the above.
I like this idea. Sort of a Photon Seeker auto-turret.Quote:Originally Posted by ZenythAs for Photon Seekers, I'm still thinking something like Hell on Earth wouldn't be horrible here...either a self buff that pops off photon seekers ever couple seconds that would zip off, explode, and hey, maybe even keep the buffsplosion on them...It'd give us a little more consistent damage, another buff, for groups as well as ourselves. Sorta a blast button we dont have to hit. -
Can anyone comment on the LF crash? Is it the same HP/End hard crash?
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Quote:Maybe a Rage-less SS?Originally Posted by PC_guy
too bad hawk didn't know what he was talking about when he said that, because there is no way that a pb is out damaging a SS character in any damage area.
Or, actually, yeah, I could see even a Rage SS Tanker being outdamaged by a Peacebringer in terms of AoE damage. SS only has Foot Stomp and without any recharge modification it takes quite a while to recharge, while PBs can fire off a couple of ranged AoE attacks. Now, if you give the Tanker Shield or Fiery Aura, that's another story...
My real gripe with what Hawk said is that he's basically implying what players have known for years: knockback is worse than knockdown. But it's not numerically worse, or worse in any way that really matters or can be measured... it's worse in the aspect that it makes everyone else on the team hate you, and that it is not synergistic with any other AoE potential a Peacebringer might have. Saying you won't change KB to KD because PBs already do enough AoE damage makes absolutely no sense, it's like saying I won't remove the elephant from your room because you've got enough space as it is. There's still an elephant in the room. -
Quote:Or you can just use the grammatically correct "he or she," which is what I do when writing papers.Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Eh, it's heavily debated and some people despise it when you do it. I teach writing and advise my students to rewrite without the need for the pronoun. That way, you sidestep the debate and no one should hold your preference against you.
On the forums, I refer to the poster by their forum name... tends to help you be more clear, too. Forums are big enough breeding pools for angst and misunderstanding without adding to the mix.
And sorry I misunderstood your joke earlier.
Admittedly, in real life speech, I do tend to say "they," though it isn't technically correct. -
Quote:Oh, I agree completely. I wasn't trying to say you should have complete faith in them. Definitely not. I've always been among the more critical on these forums of some of the things the devs have done or considered doing.Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
There is a reason we have FIVE powers in some PPPs and APPs. At one time the devs DID try to completely change some powers. It was the whining from the "vocal minority" that changed their minds and added the changes as new powers. I recall that it was around the time of I13 beta.
Not to mention that I13 completely changed how pvp functions. And seeing as how there is nearly a non existent pvp pop, I'd say the changes were bad. The devs aren't infallible.
Yeah I have faith in the devs. But not blind faith.
I am just saying, as far as power design goes, I'm fine with them having as much leeway as they can get because I trust them not to charge in and completely redesign a power without carefully weighing and considering it. Although not every change they make is necessarily good, (PVP, like you said), I trust that they at least considered it very carefully before doing it. The end result may not always be good, but I think we can be relatively assured that they won't go and exchange something like Foot Stomp for a single target phase shift anytime soon, (though I'd be ecstatic if they did the opposite with Black Hole or Dimensional Shift, lol). -
Quote:Just because you take the powers doesn't mean you have to explain them as Incarnate powers in your concept. As far as roleplaying goes, I would consider it downright stupid to "refuse" to do Incarnate content because it doesn't fit your concept. If it doesn't fit, make it fit. My Stalker has Pyronic judgment. He has no fire powers. I pretend it's an incendiary bomb. Problem solved.Originally Posted by Thirty-Seven
Let me be clear: I am not saying I totally agree with the stance that the Dev's seem to have re: Incarnate-hood. But, for now, it is what it is... and it makes good sense with regard to the storyline. So, I don't really have TOO much of an issue with it, but honestly, I don't generally make characters that don't fit into the game the way it is currently designed. I tend to look at what is available, and make my concept fit those options, and not the other way around. Which, is honestly the best way to NOT be dissappointed by a lack of options that we have.
I completely disagree. Passive powers are no fun. I want more clicky clicky boom boom. Keep in mind all of the Incarnate content is optional, so... if you don't want more tray powers, you don't have to take them. I only fill 6 of my trays on most of my 50s and that's including all of my temp power crap that I could easily remove if I needed to, but I doubt I'll ever have need considering I have 3 more trays that are empty. I have to wonder, though, if you think you have a lot of crap taking up room... have you ever played a tri-form Kheldian?Quote:Originally Posted by Sailboat
I don't care what the further Incarnate abilities do, as long as they're passive.
Not only are the power trays grossly over-filled with way too many active, click-type powers, but managing all that while fighting is getting to be a challenge. Keeping track of recharges and when to use what, with long-, medium-, and short-recharge powers -- sometimes with Hasten on, sometimes with teammate buffs changing the recharge rates -- is getting complex.
If they're not going to automate more functions in the game, they ought to regard power tray space and (for want of a better word) the player's mindspace as critical territory and carefully consider each proposal to crowd another thing into. The players need to be able to assess the battlefield and opponents' abilities and actions, the mission objectives, teammates' actions and capabilities, and the storyline as well, and all of that has to be done very, very quickly.
Please make as many new powers as possible passive -- even if that means somewhat weaker. A power that crowds another, pre-existing power out of your tray or your regular rotation isn't as strong as it first looks, is it? And a power you don't remember to use is the weakest of all.
I'd have to think about some stuff before putting any of it in writing. One thing I am pretty sure we'll get though is a second level shift from tier 3+ Omega, which will be nice.
What I'd REALLY like to happen with the next batch of Incarnate powers is for the devs to allow Incarnate level characters to begin a Task Force without a team. It really is quite inconvenient trying to get 5 other people to come to Cimerora and keeping one of them on the team, (or having them log out), while you solo an ITF. I get that Task Forces were never meant to be soloed, but that's kinda the point, isn't it? Characters were never meant to be this powerful... but they are, and as long as they are, and considering the fact that people CAN and WILL do it regardless despite the inconvenience, why not just LET US? -
Quote:Really? You think a ton of people would get up in arms because the devs decided to change a power that nobody even takes anyways? "Oh no, don't change Dimensional Shift! It's bad enough they changed the Sonic graphics to not cause severe migraines after years of complaints, NOW how will I grief my teammates!?"Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
I don't agree that changing it from a mez would only be opposed by a vocal minority.
Good thing that's not what I said then. I did not say "random reason" and I think you definitely did misunderstand that. But if people have any faith in the devs, there should be no need for some "rule" that tells them what they can do with existing powers. I have enough faith in them to know that they wouldn't completely change an existing power unless it was truly in need of change, and I wouldn't call that random or arbitrary.Quote:Originally Posted by Aura_FamiliaI COMPLETELY disagree that the devs should take up the rule that they can arbitrarily change any power into basically any other random power for any random reason. I truly hope I misunderstood you (and others) and that's NOT really what you're advocating. Cause that would be full of EPIC FAIL. -
Quote:Rebirth at tier 4 is not just a very nice heal on a 2 minute recharge, but the +Regen variety basically lets you permanently enter into a state of ridiculous regenerative capability. I just don't see anything else that's as good in the Destiny slot. But then, my priority as a Tanker is to stay alive under any circumstances. Rebirth basically lets me face endless swarms of +4s. Even with 4 or 5 Elite Bosses aggroed to me (along with more Cimerorans than I could hold aggro on) in an ITF I didn't faceplant. And I'm only at Tier 3 right now. I don't think I'd trade that for a 10 second burst of Hasten-level recharge bonus (yes, followed by decaying 30%, 20%, 10%) ever, unless I planned on farming a lot of relatively weak enemies.Originally Posted by UNB0UND_4_LIFE
Just my opinion, but, if as an incarnate tanker I felt I needed or had to take Rebirth for my Destiny slot, then I'd call that "FAIL."
While it's not "mandatory," I am basically of the opinion that nothing else in the Destiny slot even comes close to being as good as Rebirth +Regen, especially for an Archetype based around survival. -
Quote:So what? You gotta pick at me for not reading every post in the thread because I happened to agree with Arcanaville on one particular point without realizing it? Or pick at parts of my post that are irrelevant to the main point in order to distract people? Arcanaville said the same thing a few pages back... how, exactly, does that invalidate my repetition of it? I was and am fully aware that Arcanaville knew of the origins of the "cottage rule". There isn't really much about this game that Arcanaville doesn't know, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with everything. Even despite said post the argument seemed to be that it was good to have some sort of preventative design rule, though in Arcanaville's own words, the supposedly existing "cottage rule" is not actually a rule at all.Originally Posted by Chad Gulzow-Man
... I take it you didn't see this post that Arcanaville made two days ago in this very thread?
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=113
I don't think there needs to be any "rule" or "restriction" on completely changing certain powers. If people want to argue that it's better to compromise and attempt to appeal to everyone possible by adding extra effects to existing powers or keeping the old primary effects as secondary effects or whatever, then I guess we'll just agree to disagree. There are certainly cases where that works fine. But then there are cases that I don't think it would work at all. How do you keep a phase effect on Black Hole or Dimensional Shift while also making it a good power? Heck, how do you keep it as some form of mez without stepping on toes of the rest of the set? I am sure there could be some ideas put forward for the latter, and I'd like to see them, but I'd also be totally cool with changing these kinds of powers so that they aren't mezes at all. There will be a vocal minority that are opposed to it, but you don't always HAVE to appeal to vocal minorities. -
Quote:There is no such ANY rule, though. The "cottage rule" was just some fan name given to a joke Castle made about how they wouldn't change build-up to form a cottage in front of you. Unless devs confirm that they actually have a poster up on their wall reminding the Power Designers to not exchange Build-Up's damage and to-hit buff for a cottage summoning power, I don't honestly believe they have any actual "cottage rule" telling them what they can and can't do beyond, obviously, the common sense of the lead designer.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
You're assuming there's any rule or even guideline that says a power's intended primary purpose cannot change. There is no such design rule.
But for the record, if there IS such a rule that says a power must at least retain its prior usage intent, I disagree with it. I think there are some powers that should be changed entirely, and simply could not retain their current usage in a new form. With things like Dimension Shift or Black Hole, the only real option to change them so that they're actually useful without affecting their intent would be to make them Holds instead of Intangibility. Obviously, this would basically make them a clone of a power that already exists in the same set... so in such a case, I think it is justified to consider alternatives that would change them entirely. Maybe keep them as some sort of enemy mitigation, I suppose, but insofar as whether or not it "violates the cottage rule," I suppose it all comes down to your interpretation of what, exactly, the "cottage rule" entails. -
Quote:For those who have the resources and desire to make it permanent it IS better, I will acknowledge that. But the idea that it can be activated more often assumes that everyone who has it will use it as soon as it's back up, but most people save their heals for when they actually need to be healed, just like one would save Conserve Power for when one actually needs endurance. Conserve Power/Energize doesn't increase recovery or give you endurance, it just cuts down on your consumption. The longer it's active and the more potent it is, the more endurance you're going to recover while it's active. If you want to perma it, sure, it's going to be better, but if you're using your heal when you don't need health, then you get hit hard and it's still recharging, I guess you're just going to be SOL. And for that reason, the intent and typical usage time of the power, (when HP is low, not when endurance is low), I say that it is an exception to the Cottage Rule. And you know what? I'm okay with that. As I already explained, ignoring some imaginary rule doesn't mean the Devs are going to go change powers to completely alter their intent without great care. Even when they do, they tend to make concessions, which is probably why Energize even has an endurance discount component.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
I notice people are still dancing with futility asking for the cottage rule to be revoked. Well, can't say I didn't try. But as to this specific example, two things. First, Energize was changed to address specific balance issues in Electric Armor that were not practically resolvable within its design limits without making significant changes to the set. It had a cottage rule exemption justification if it needed one. Second, it didn't need one because Energize is not actually significantly worse than Conserve Power used to be at endurance management.
Conserve Power's original recharge was 600s (the same as the version in Energy Aura now) which would be far too long for a heal power. So it was reduced to 120 seconds which is 1/5th the duration. That on its own would make the endurance discount five times more powerful, albeit in a way difficult to get full usage out of. So its duration was reduced by a third and its strength cut in half. Net, its uptime is now 1.7 times higher, and its strength is now half as strong. That's an overall reduction in numerical effect of about 15%. In other words, Energize has 85% the endurance reduction numerical strength of Conserve Power. That is a minimal reduction. What's more, its probably more *usable* as endurance management because endurance manangement is far more useful when its up more often than when its up less often but stronger.
Lets three slot both powers for recharge and ask players which would they rather have: about 100% endurance reduction for 90 seconds with about three and a half minutes of downtime, or 50% endurance reduction for 30 seconds with about 30 seconds of downtime. I'm not even talking about the heal in Energize either: I'm just talking about the endurance reduction.
Or lets add on 3-slotted hasten and ask, on average, would they rather have 100% end reduction for 90 seconds with two and a half minutes of downtime, or 50% end reduction for 30 seconds with about 20 seconds of downtime.
Or, lets go all the way and ask the min/maxers which would they rather have, the power that can be made perma (Energize requires +300% recharge to go perma) or the one that cannot be made perma by any means (at the recharge cap of +400% or 5.0 total recharge Conserve Power still has 30 seconds of downtime every two minutes.
So the reason why most people don't complain about Energize is not just that it got a heal, but it also, for most players, got *better* at endurance reduction. It certainly did not significantly damage the power for the vast majority of players using it for endurance management.
So Energize had a cottage rule justification, but it didn't even need to use it. -
Quote:Stalker AS causes fear which causes a to-hit debuff. Doesn't help with their pitiful damage at all though.Originally Posted by gec72
Maybe give Placate a reasonably strong, but short (well, shorter than the recharge), AoE/PBAoE -ToHit effect? Placate one foe, throw the others off enough that they also stand a lesser chance of hitting both you AND the team.
edit: or give it with AS...hard to hit things when your reaction is "whoa, WHAT THE!?!" -
Quote:Forgive my ignorance, but considering Brutes and Scrappers get the same def/res values for their secondaries (save perhaps a few exceptions that escape me), why would their scaling resistances in SR be any different from one another? Tankers, naturally, have higher modifiers for their armor sets, so it would make sense that the scaling resists would follow suit and be higher than for Scrappers/Brutes, unless I'm missing something?Originally Posted by Arcanaville
1. The scaling resistances in Scrapper and Brute SR passives are not archetype-sensitive, so if they are straight-ported from Brutes or Scrappers the resistance values will be identical for Tankers.
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Stretch Melee
Water Armor
Water Melee
Water Control
Telekinetic Melee (Psychic Melee? Think Psylocke)
Actually these are rather serious suggestions, not jokey, but they'll never happen... -
Quote:They're not just "adding an effect to a power," they're changing the primary purpose of the power completely. Energize has only 1/2 the endurance discount of Conserve Power and lasts 1/3 the duration. The primary purpose of the power was changed entirely while the old primary purpose was kept as a pretty moot secondary effect. I would still consider it a violation of the cottage rule because of this. You wouldn't now use Energize for a minor 30 second endurance discount, you'd use it when you need to recover some HP. The intent of the power was changed, the power was relabeled, given a different name and icon. Can it still be used for an endurance discount? Sure. But it's not nearly as powerful as Conserve Power, and makes a pretty poor substitute for that particular purpose. I've never seen any whinging about it, though, because most people acknowledged that Elec Armor needed a self heal a lot more than it needed a second end management power.Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
No, they aren't. They're adding an effect to a power. That is not "breaking the cottage rule."
Conserve Power - END discount.
Energize: END discount... plus a heal.
Basic purpose stays the same.
This has, of course, been pointed out multiple times already.
It would be like, in Castle's original example, changing Build-Up from a +80% damage +20% to-hit 10 second buff, to changing it to a power that summons a small cottage in front of you while, at the same time, providing a 40% damage and 10% to-hit buff for about three seconds. -
Quote:Who cares? The cottage rule gets broken whenever the devs want to break it! They broke it by changing Conserve Power to Energize in Elec Armor, now they're doing the same thing for Energy Aura! How about doing it for Dimension Shift or the entire Stone Armor set or other crappy, outdated, archaic powers(ets)? Nobody is saying devs should go and change powers thoughtlessly just because they can, but they don't need to have a fake "rule" in place that they can point to when the masses cry out for underperforming or just pointless powers and powersets to be changed or buffed.Originally Posted by je_saist
I don't think Memphis Bill called you wrongly on this.
The Cottage rule can be summed up very simply with one question:
Does your modification remove an enhancement type?
If you answered: Yes
Then you have broken the cottage rule.
If you answered: No
Then you haven't broken the cottage rule.
Now, I'm going to be very blunt here Jay. You need to go read this thread: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=264829
To be clear Jay, you and every other player that wants to remove the cottage rule so you can run about making your Bloody Tank Mages and have the absolutely most perfect character ever with no flaws...
Need to go find a different Game. We won't let you pull that stunt with our game.
Do you really think there are a ton of Peacebringers out there that LIKE the fact that their version of Footstomp does knockBACK instead of knockDOWN, thus marginalizing the usefulness of it in relation to all of their other AoE or Melee attacks (not to mention the team's)? Hell, it doesn't just hurt the rest of the Peacebringer's powers, it hurts ITSELF! It's a PBAoE non-nuke attack with a decently quick recharge that knocks everything out of PBAoE range. Whose bright idea was that? You think there are noobs who go Gravity controller and take Dimension Shift thinking it sounds awesome just to find out it's basically not only useless but downright detrimental for the majority of the game content? What about Group Flight or Whirlwind?
I agree completely that Stalkers should be the KINGS of single target damage. Even as the game is, though, they just aren't. They aren't the best at damage and they're the least survivable of the melee classes. Their ST damage is comparable to, maybe better than, a Scrapper's, depending on the situation, and their AoE damage can be virtually nonexistent depending on the Stalker's chosen primary. I posted my personal opinion in the Stalker forum, which basically involves dealing a portion of un-resistable AS damage that scales with enemy rank. Assigning it to rank would (presumably) bypass most, if not all, of the problems brought up with un-resistable AS damage because you could simply turn it off against Civilian rank targets or Hamidon rank targets. It would fit the concept of a Stalker as an assassin, exploiting a weak spot, as well as being able to deal good damage against hard targets like AVs and GMs, making Stalker the true ST damage King when it matters most.Quote:Originally Posted by Oedipus TexThe reason I suggested adding -Regen and possibly also -Healing to Stalkers was specifically to make them as desirable as /Rads and /Colds are for dealing with a single hard target. I think killing a hard target is something this AT should be sought after for.