New Dawn
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Posts
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Joined
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I am impatient in soloing defenders. I just find it slow, but given that most the powers go towards making others look better, teaming was then always a requirement for me. DP however is actually quite nice on defenders and so to solo with that is no problem.
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Edit: NVM I been drinking *hic*
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It bit late at night for me but I had a thought. If you went either a dark or elec epic then you could get consumption or powersink which would give you endurance. It's alright if you can be in range often enough. Because you have an FF and possibly manuevers and maybe some +def IO sets later then it could be enough. I'd hasten them though. I tend to haste most things.
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From my perspective. It suffices. It does the job. I could play it and be happy with it. I could go on with their never being another change to it. However from other peoples perspectives I'd like to see fixes. I'd like to see tweaks thinking of a couple of areas with which would make the set perform better. Currently it doesn't perform as well as it should. Then by reading of peoples limitations and from seeing what limitations some people give themselves from looking at their builds I see additional areas where they won't be getting as much out of TA as they could be. However you trade one power for another and so one flexibility for another. Really they could fix one power and pretty much leave it at that. Then the set is pretty much performing as intended. It's common knowledge that it isn't performing as intended. It's still a good set to play and team with.
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Quote:Not for me.Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
So TA underperforms? -
Quote:Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
Is that a no?
I used the word might because it is about perception. We all differ. With OS broke its underperformance is a given but I haven't said that it doesn't need tweaks yet. At the very start of the thread I was posting ideas for improvements too from my own perspective. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Silas
I personally am a fan of the suggestion that Luminara, Rush_Bolt and Trickshooter would be jumping to conclusions about TA.
No one has accused them of jumping to conclusions about TA. -
I don't know if there are many stamina less traps about but I do have a staminaless ta/archery with one build. It was tight as hell down to every slot to get it so it works well despite low end recovery. Then I had to think about my playstyle. No point doubling debuffs when they don't stack. She can go for a few minutes constantly doing my chains though. I used the test dummies to do work on that incase of AV fights. Where it's going to be even more important not to overuse powers pointlessly.
If you were soloing it could be very easy, teamed, plenty of attacking and pace, not so easy. AoE attacks do most DPE to groups and can save you the use of single target attacks, teamed I'd use Traps and AoE attacks mainly.
Failing other responses if I were you I'd get a good idea of a typical fight duration, then your likely average eps from the cost of using anything from the traps set, attack chain and eps of toggles over that fight duration and then I feel you might still want haste and conserve energy purely because stamina is a power that is useful to most sets or atleast before mid twenties at a minimum usually. Haste and Conserve is two powers whereas getting to stamina takes three, but with me I also wanted power boost. Between fight durations there maybe an average time too from which you can get an idea of your end recovery.
My Traps/DP does have stamina so never actually made a stamina less defender one of them yet. -
Running a lot of toggles doesn't leave much for end recovery. Sure you don't have to run all the toggles all the time and that's pretty much how I think. Endurance management has been the thing I have had to factorize in my thinking most.
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Quote:The very fact that Oil Slick is currently broken just shows TA to underperform.Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
Do these good points make it not underperform?
I worried about the negativity and the effects of. It might underperform but its not out.
Another point, a fixed OS means we can an all be quiet about it really because then there is nought much wrong. -
Quote:No one is saying that it is not currently underperforming but it's still a good defender set. I merely said what can be done with TA, it's good points. That is all. Points others have failed to mention in the past.Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
Wait... the only reason you're doing this whole rigmarole is because there are posters here saying an underperforming set is underperforming?
Wut? -
Quote:You are out of context.Originally Posted by Luminara
It is what you implied, and your attempt at deflection by crying about context isn't working.
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Quote:No that's not what I am saying. I'd play with a TA as any AT. You have to take words and then not add assumptions to them. I dont have time to elaborate for those who like to pick an argument for the sake of getting their post counts up or whatever.Originally Posted by BlazingTiger
So you are saying because you play a Tank Trick Arrow is ok because they do something (support can be anything from buffing a team to debuffing or dealing damage) on the team when your tanking. Good enough and balanced are not the same. Im sorry but I dont think you understand the subject at hand. You have yet to say a single helpful thing on the matter of TA and your wording on almost post is being misinterpreted, or so you believe. I think its time for you to just walk away from this thread.
With all the negative attention to TA needed some postive things said. It's not as limited or as useless as people could be falsely concluding. Jumping to false conclusions is quite epidemic around here. -
Quote:You guys are talking to me like I am saying that TA doesn't need any changes. I haven't said that. You've assumed very little that has been correct and fail to impress me with what you know altogether. Your still assuming the wrong things by your putting 2 and 2 together. What I know about TA is pretty much from the get go . What I know about AV holes was prior to TA, so really you're assuming you know more about me than you do.Originally Posted by Frosticus
I'm glad you learned that AV's have an immob hole in 2007 and that Entangle provides -flight. Those are big realizations. As for the rest of your super secrets they sure sound amazing. If they are as impressive as your TA ones I'll pass because they aren't secret, or super, or amazing.
If it makes you feel any better your argument that TA is fine can be matched by a single temp power from sirens call.
It's great that you've found a unique niche for TA that comprised a fraction of a percentage of the game. Unfortunately it isn't even the best at that. I'd take a x/x/mace corruptor over any TA for that niche. Not only could it fill the role the TA is doing better than the TA it could also have a secondary that actually brings much more value to the situation. Conversely, any controller st immob provides -fly and is higher mag than Entangle (one shot immobs AV's). Again the controller can have a much more potent secondary and still do what TA is doing.
For the umpteenth time TA qualifies as a defender set with which teams can be more than capable of getting the game content done.
All the posts that are about knocking it for improvements simply put TA into a worse light than it needs to be imo, without giving much away I was promoting it. For many reasons I like it not one. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Great_White_555
Well I've never been a proponent of Taunt for various reasons (here is neither the time nor place to discuss those) and Whirling Mace never impressed me with its low damage. And what mistakes am I making in my slotting? I'd appreciate knowing so I can be sure to be performing at the optimum output.
Thank you
Most people find RttC weak for taunt duration. Whirling Mace is a pbaoe that hits 10 so when your in amongst 10 or more and it hits 10 the little bit of damage adds up.. A single target attack isn't going to hit 10. In terms of damage to a group whirling mace is better. When you hit 10 your doing more damage per endurance to that group potentially saving you endurance later on from having to use single target attacks less, but more importantly for me it is my way of telling people that it's a good time to attack, after whirling mace not alot is going to get away from me and attack somebody else.
Few people would run a Willpower without taunt. I actually don't care who does and who doesn't but I will confirm that it's a more flexible tanker with than without, especially in dealing with AVs.
Looking at your build again, right now I am doing it from work. I just fancied a break from my 3d modelling so I am not using Mids at all. I'll point out off the top of my head, where to look. During a fight duration, the entire build matters, we switch slots around to get the most of the build. I would say rather than the end cost of some power on it's own, I would look at the average end loss per sec during a fight duration and compare it to average end recovery that the build has. Sometimes people put a 3rd def slot in combat jump for a minor bit percentage extra in defense and miss out on something more important.
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(5), Heal-I(7), ResDam-I(7), ResDam-I(19), ResDam-I(19) Fine
Level 1: Bash -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(21), Dmg-I(21), Acc-I(27), RechRdx-I(27), EndRdx-I(29)
Level 2: Mind Over Body -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(3), ResDam-I(3), EndRdx-I(5)
Level 4: Jawbreaker -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(29), Dmg-I(31), Acc-I(31), RechRdx-I(31), EndRdx-I(33)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(43) 2nd def slot in CJ is questionable
Level 8: Rise to the Challenge -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(9), Heal-I(9), Taunt-I(11), Taunt-I(11), EndRdx-I(15) I'd sooner whack everything with a pbaoe than make a weak taunt pbaoe slightly better in taunt duration
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(15), EndRdx-I(50) each end red you add saves you less and less in end cost. It maybe you could save more end putting an end red elsewhere or do something better with the slot in another power.
Level 12: Quick Recovery -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(13), EndMod-I(13)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Fast Healing -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(17), Heal-I(17)
Level 18: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 20: Clobber -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(40), Dmg-I(42), Acc-I(42), RechRdx-I(42), EndRdx-I(43)
Level 22: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(23), Heal-I(23)
Level 24: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(25), EndMod-I(25)
Level 26: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 28: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 30: Tough -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(34), ResDam-I(34), EndRdx-I(37)2nd end red here is better than the 2nd or 3rd end red in indomitable will.
Level 32: Weave -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(33), DefBuff-I(33), EndRdx-I(34)2nd end red here is better than the 2nd or 3rd end red in indomitable will also.
Level 35: Shatter -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(36), Dmg-I(36), Acc-I(36), RechRdx-I(37), EndRdx-I(37)
Level 38: Crowd Control -- Dmg-I(A), Dmg-I(39), Dmg-I(39), Acc-I(39), RechRdx-I(40), EndRdx-I(40)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(45), Heal-I(45), EndMod-I(45), EndMod-I(46), EndMod-I(46) did you look at the hitpoint per second gained and end rec gained with each slot? I'd be inclined to lower the end cost of the fight pool toggles more and def slot up indomitable will.
Level 47: Heightened Senses -- DefBuff-I(A), DefBuff-I(48), DefBuff-I(48), EndRdx-I(48) Bit late imo.
Level 49: Resurgence -- RechRdx-I(A) tankers with taunt are potentially more survivable.You don't have to have it. Concept matters most, so if you'd rather resurgence then fine. It's nice to be able to get up. -
Two powahs you skipped on ya WP/WM suggestion that I not only wouldn't but feel that some might especially oppose being that its WP is taunt and whirling hands. Something you can do for him/her is put damage mitigation and taunt control as a greater priority if needs be. Either way I would pay attention to how much of a difference to the overall performance of the build each slot gives you because I feel that there are mistakes that you yourself can put right.
Edit: I uprepped you because I can't see why people down repped you. The rep system is bollocks for children to play with.
Edit: I like to feel young at times. -
Wrong server for me. I would find it interesting. Shame that despite all the people union has, so few frequent the forums. Try the channels.
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I just need to look at figures to not doubt something, but still people like you with less of an altitis than everyone else "I'd imagine" but with a passion for ya tank which doesn't need to be imagined is all good. Your proving something to the unbelievers.
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New Dawn is not versus the world as tagged. New Dawn is limited by there not being one server. TA is a good defender set. I play Tanks, my job is to redirect damage on me, given that job it's nice to have a defenders support. TA is good enough. That is my point.
Edit: TBH I am a lil be too tipsy tonight to get into anything detailed. I'll save reading the biggest off posts for another day. -
Quote:No I have not mentioned anything about a unique role.Originally Posted by Frosticus
I can assure you this 'unique role' that you believe TA does is done by traps to about 1000% the effect. And that is being conservative.
I don't know why you are being elusive in your responses. Everyone knows you are talking about grounding/immobing AV's and taunting them from range allowing you to complete content with suboptimal toons if they were to try and 'tank and spank' the instance.
Great, that takes care of 0.00001% of situations in the game where TA is almost as good as another defender that brings way more to every single other scenario. In fact traps is so strong you'd never need to resort to gimmick approaches like that. That is verified by my traps corr solo'ing ghost widow AV...love to see a TA do that. -
Quote:Nope that's not true. No point deriving anything that I haven't said. Really it's pointless.Originally Posted by Dispari
So you alone hold the key to TA being intensely amazing if played just the right way, but don't wish to share it because it's a secret which must be discovered personally. Gotcha.
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Quote:TA needs tweaks. I said that TA qualifies as a good defender set. I am not arguing, I am replying to posts that imply I have said something I haven't quite alot of the time. TA is fine in my book as its useful enough to me.Originally Posted by Dispari
This is basically the most ridiculous argument I've ever heard. Just saying.
TA is fine because nobody really NEEDS a Defender so may as well fill the slot with a worthless and underpowered toon rather than one that's fifty times more useful. -
Quote:Keyword "seemed". I seen your build a while back. I wouldn't play it. I could still tank the STF for it but I'd doubt you'd be the right sort of player behind itOriginally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Not at all, you said that if you skip either EA or FA you're not using everything TA has to offer. Since Trickshooter stated that most TA players he has met only skip one of those two powers your response seemed to imply that TA players should take all 9 powers. In any case if you're going to use that argument then you should be taking EMP Arrow for the same reason. If you skip EMP Arrow then you are denying your team the chance to fight a group at essentially no risk every 2.5minutes or the ability to force a drastic chance in a fight that might be going against you (depending on which way you prefer to use it and the overall quality of the team).
Your claim at this point (as I see it) is essentially that skipping EA or FA drastically weakens the abilities of the set but skipping EMP Arrow (probably the best AoE hold in the game). I fail to see how that makes any kind of sense so I'm going to ask you to elaborate.
I have a TA/A Defender. The build is moderately IO'd, I took all of the TA powers except for EA and all of the Archery powers except for Ranged Shot and Stunning Shot. I also have two leadership toggles and some powers from Dark Mastery (which at some point I'll get around to changing, the PBAoE nature of the powers is a poor fit for my style). So given all of that please tell me why you believe switching out EMP Arrow for Entangling Arrow will make my character stronger.
EMP is only up so often. It's just a panic button I rarely use.
My glass is pretty half full looking across at anyones primary/secondary. Blasters are often damage/control. They'll do for support. Why people need to make the game easier than it is I don't know.
TA does need tweaks. I didn't say otherwise but someone needs to make it clear from here on that the set works. When it does work it's nice. The game is more interesting when you don't need to have the same old powersets for any given TF. -
Quote:I don't need any defender or controller in a team to get an STF done. Why should anyone? I don't need a tanker, scrapper or blaster. It could be a 1AT team of any of them and the game is doable. So yeah, TA is as good as any. I don't need to concoct an ideal team, just bring your badge toon.Originally Posted by Dispari
So coming full circle, the argument is that TA is fine when used in situations where you don't need support to begin with because it's already easy.
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Quote:I hadn't said that I know how to play so much better than everyone else.Originally Posted by RabidBrian
And corruptors apparently too right? Because defenders were the last AT to get an AT wide buff, so obviously they werent so balanced right?
I was going to quote all the idiotic puke you just spewed out with your keyboard, but I think your constant running from others questions has done it for me already. You just said you know how to play TA so much better than everyone else, yet you skip the t9 hold that solidifies its ability to mitigate damage. But yeah, we are the ones who dont play/know how to play our TA'ers.
TA does not have ONE SINGLE BUFF. It is ALL DEBUFFS and some mitigative holds. Now, considering it isnt a troller primary, I dont think those holds should be making up for the lack of buffs (moreso debuffs.) So, that makes it an all debuff set. That can be outdebuffed by just about every other set in multiple categories. These are numerical fact. And Im not saying it needs to outdebuff every set in every department. It just needs more going for it than -movement speed.
I don't find TA inadequate at all is what I am saying. EMP isn't needed.
It's good that it is a set with controls and debuffs and no buffs. If it were upto some people it would get healing arrow. Which is pants. Turn every defender set into a set that everyone can play the same way with and you don't have anything special.
Why make life easy, where is the challenge in that. I liked TA cos it is different. I expect to play differently with one and in a different way to my other defenders when I am playing one.